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Media Create Sales: Week 40, 2017 (Oct 02 - Oct 08)


You know what...

iLruJf0.gif
 

Fiendcode

Member
Do you have any data for Asia? I don't (except the big growth with each year) so i am legit curious if it's really a drop in the bucket as you say.

Need receipts on Asia being a drop in the bucket. A drop seems very hyperbolic.
Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.

Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units

Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000

Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850,000 units
Asia: 1,060,000 units

Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000

Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales

It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.

You listed two niche Japanese third party games, both at launch and your last statement just seems even more disillusioned with reality, considering the Ps4 has nearly 10 times the userbase of the SW and is outselling it worldwide.

This idea that PS4 would see a decrease of Japanese support couldn't be further from reality when nearly every Japanese third party game is releasing on it, far more than any other platform.
Neither game was a western launch title. 3rd party Japanese games weren’t doing especially well on PS4 in the west until finally this year either but now we do have some good success stories like Persona 5, Nier Automata or Nioh.

Also, I’m not sure PS4 is outselling Switch globally. This year it’s been 6.2m in 6 months for PS4 vs 4.7m in 4 months for Switch under historic supply constraints. I expect Switch to be comfortably ahead for Jul-Sep given increased shipments this quarter.
 

Malakai

Member
Do you have any data for Asia? I don't (except the big growth with each year) so i am legit curious if it's really a drop in the bucket as you say.

Need receipts on Asia being a drop in the bucket. A drop seems very hyperbolic.

Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.

Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units

Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000

Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850 units
Asia: 1,060 units

Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000

Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales

It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.

You listed two niche Japanese third party games, both at launch and your last statement just seems even more disillusioned with reality, considering the Ps4 has nearly 10 times the userbase of the SW and is outselling it worldwide.

This idea that PS4 would see a decrease of Japanese support couldn't be further from reality when nearly every Japanese third party game is releasing on it, far more than any other platform.


Neither game was a western launch title. 3rd party Japanese games weren't doing especially well on PS4 in the west until finally this year either but now we do have some good success stories like Persona 5, Nier Automata or Nioh.

Also, I'm not sure PS4 is outselling Switch globally. This year it's been 6.2m in 6 months for PS4 vs 4.7m in 4 months for Switch under historic supply constraints. I expect Switch to be comfortably ahead for Jul-Sep given increased shipments this quarter.


Friendcode be like:

giphy.gif
 

Vinnk

Member
Used to lurk only, but yes you're right. lol

Most Switch games will get big bumps this holiday season, so people should be prepared to see Arms coming back already.

Welcome!

This one surprises me, i guess fighterZ is a lock now.

More than likely we now have enough points to unlock the next test.

Be keep diligent true believers!

If we buy more games, beg on our knees, and pray to the gods at Bandai Namco, then perhaps, will be rewarded with a late port of FighterZ, without any DLC, sometime down the road.
Announced 2 weeks before the complete edition is announced for PS4 and XB1 at a reduced price.
 
Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.

Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units

Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000

Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850,000 units
Asia: 1,060,000 units

Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000

Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales

It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.


Neither game was a western launch title. 3rd party Japanese games weren’t doing especially well on PS4 in the west until finally this year either but now we do have some good success stories like Persona 5, Nier Automata or Nioh.

Also, I’m not sure PS4 is outselling Switch globally. This year it’s been 6.2m in 6 months for PS4 vs 4.7m in 4 months for Switch under historic supply constraints. I expect Switch to be comfortably ahead for Jul-Sep given increased shipments this quarter.
I’m impressed,this is quite a research
500k LTD will be a succesful result in Japan. So far it has legs. There is no contest for Switch this December, holiday sales could make it a 350-400k seller by January.
I think one of the reasons that Arms sales has been kinda lackluster is because of Nintendo’s post launch supports.Unlike splatoon 2 which they have been dropping events for it continuously,Arms supports are nothing but an update a dlc character,a few stages and some arms months after launch
 

Aters

Member
Drop in a bucket is not hyperbolic, by large Asia is a small faction of Japan sales for Japanese publishers. We know this from financial disclosures.

Capcom Q1 FY2018
Japan: 350,000 units
Asia: 50,000 units

Bandai Namco Q1 FY2018
Japan: ¥113,121,000,000
Asia: ¥9,534,000,000

Sega FY 2017
Japan: 1,850,000 units
Asia: 1,060,000 units

Square Enix FY2017
Japan: ¥168,546,000,000
Asia (and others): ¥9,003,000,000

Koei Tecmo FY2017
Japan: 73.1% of sales
Asia: 9.1% of sales

It seems to me like the significance of Asia for Japanese publishers gets vastly overstated in these threads. Mostly in defense of heavy PS4 support.

Many of the companies you listed here are not just console game companies. For example only half of SE's income was from console games while they also have mobile game, arcade, publishing, figure and other business. Most of those business do not exist outside Japan. Same is probably true for Bandai Namco. Using income as a metric is not accurate here.

When you look at copies sold, Sega's data shows a very impressive split. Actually it's way too high. I suspect it includes Sega Europe's PC titles, which are much bigger in China than in Japan going by Steamspy data. As for Capcom, the only other company with unit data, their Q1 in Japan mostly just rides on the leg of MHXX, which is a title exclusive to Japan on Nintendo platform which kind of proves the point.

The performance of games in Asia should be studied in a game by game manner. You have some Japanese games that sells way more in the west, while some other games only perform well domestically. This kind of discrepancy also exists in Asia. Some franchises are just bigger in Asia, while others are not. The platform they are on also plays a big role. It's hard to give a percentage to describe how Asia market mitigates sales loss in Japan. But Asia market is something Japanese companies must try. They are also trying to sell more copies in the west, as MHW suggests, but that's even further from certainty than Asia market potential.
 

Vinnk

Member
Now that Everybody's Golf said good bye too, Gran Turismo is Sony's last big Japanese developed IP in question.

Until Knack 3.

But seriously, the death of Minna no Golf is really sad. That was a staple of Playstation games in Japan. Everyone had a game from this series in the PS1/PS2 days, even people who don't care for golf. It started fading on the PS3 but the PS4 title was a disaster. I hope they find a way to revive it because I really like this series. And there are very few colorful casual sports games these days. Mario Tennis, Minna no Golf, Power Pro Baseball.. are there even any others these days?
 

Cerium

Member
Until Knack 3.

But seriously, the death of Minna no Golf is really sad. That was a staple of Playstation games in Japan. Everyone had a game from this series in the PS1/PS2 days, even people who don't care for golf. It started fading on the PS3 but the PS4 title was a disaster. I hope they find a way to revive it because I really like this series. And there are very few colorful casual sports games these days. Mario Tennis, Minna no Golf, Power Pro Baseball.. are there even any others these days?

Uh



?
 

Vinnk

Member

Thought about adding that one. But isn't it more of an RPG with Golf elements? I must say I'm not sure. I haven't played it yet. I really want to. But it hasn't hit the Japanese eShop yet. Same with Stardew Valley.

I need to get some NA point cards..
 

casiopao

Member
Oh yeah, I just noticed that. I guess the mobile game didn't help significantly to rejuvenate the franchise like Pokémon Go did.

I think most on M-C should understand that Japan mobile market is different compared to the West.

It is highly unlikely for a single mobile game to revitalize traditional game franchise as there is simply too much quality mobile keep coming out everyday.

When even Pokemon Go is not able to push Sun and Moon to even better number in japan, u know it will hardly ever happen to other smaller franchise in jp.
 

Vinnk

Member
Are there indications that Gran Turismo will also see a decline?

And if so, do you think great Western sales of the PS4 indicate that the series will stay healthy?

Honest questions. I haven't really been following this title.
 

Cerium

Member
Thought about adding that one. But isn't it more of an RPG with Golf elements? I must say I'm not sure. I haven't played it yet. I really want to. But it hasn't hit the Japanese eShop yet. Same with Stardew Valley.

I need to get some NA point cards..

It's the next evolution of Mario Golf. There's lots of story, but tons of golf. Golf is the solution to every problem. And you can quick play any of the eight main courses after you've unlocked them in the story.
 

Fiendcode

Member
Many of the companies you listed here are not just console game companies. For example only half of SE's income was from console games while they also have mobile game, arcade, publishing, figure and other business. Most of those business do not exist outside Japan. Same is probably true for Bandai Namco. Using income as a metric is not accurate here.

When you look at copies sold, Sega's data shows a very impressive split. Actually it's way too high. I suspect it includes Sega Europe's PC titles, which are much bigger in China than in Japan going by Steamspy data. As for Capcom, the only other other company with unit data, their Q1 in Japan mostly just rides on the leg of MHXX, which is a title exclusive to Japan on Nintendo platform which kind of proves the point.

The performance of games in Asia should be studied in a game by game manner. You have some Japanese games that sells way more in the west, while some other games only perform well domestically. This kind of discrepancy also exists in Asia. Some franchises are just bigger in Asia, while others are not. The platform they are on also plays a big role. It's hard to give a percentage to describe how Asia market mitigates sales loss in Japan. But Asia market is something Japanese companies must try. They are also trying to sell more copies in the west, as MHW suggests, but that's even further from certainty than Asia market potential.
Bandai Namco doesn’t have unit data for Asia, only Japan, Americas and Europe. This suggests to me Asia isn’t a very relevant market for their console games and me using overall revenue figures is more likely overstating Asia for them in this context.

Koei Tecmo does include units but Japan still dwarfs Asia (3,060,000 to 1,070,000 FY2017). It is closer though.

Sega’s data is for packaged game sales, meaning both physical and digital but it excludes console/PC games falling under Sega Online like PSO2. I would argue the relative closeness for Sega speaks more to a weakness in Japan than strength in Asia though. And Sega is the only company where the two regions are at all competitive, if nearly 2:1 is really competitive.

The vast majority of SE business comes from consumer games (¥196,016,000,000 out of ¥256,824,000,000) with the rest coming from arcades, publishing and merchandising. A breakdown isn’t given of console/PC vs mobile/browser in this report although I do remember seeing it done elsewhere but I’ll let you find that.

Capcom shipped 0 additional units of MHXX in Q1 going by their Platinum charts so your excuse here failed. For FY2017 they shipped 3,500,000 packaged games to Japan vs 400,000 for Asia, showing a similar ratio vs Q1 2018.

Asia may well be a vital console market some day and there is real growth opportunity in the region. But the data we have shows it still remains a tiny fraction of Japan and the growth has been limited. Looking at unique game performances doesn’t help either since we have no direct sales tracking for Asia and when given shipment figures it’s only for extraordinary successes from PR statements. To discount the more comprehensive investor data we have from publishers like this seems like you wanting to steer the narrative more than anything.
 

casiopao

Member
Are there indications that Gran Turismo will also see a decline?

And if so, do you think great Western sales of the PS4 indicate that the series will stay healthy?

Honest questions. I haven't really been following this title.

GT6 declined last gen and this new GT does not have mainline number for me is a guarantee decline in Japan. I do find the lack of hype for japanese forum for the title also quite telling there.

On the west, it will all depend fully on whether racing game genre decline is simply on Forza alone or the whole genre. USA from what i see, had less care for the racing genre so it will all fully depend whether Europe can carry GT franchise this time.
 

Aters

Member
Bandai Namco doesn't have unit data for Asia, only Japan, Americas and Europe. This suggests to me Asia isn't a very relevant market for their console games and me using overall revenue figures is more likely overstating Asia for them in this context.

Koei Tecmo does include units but Japan still dwarfs Asia (3,060,000 to 1,070,000 FY2017). It is closer though.

Sega's data is for packaged game sales, meaning both physical and digital but it excludes console/PC games falling under Sega Online like PSO2. I would argue the relative closeness for Sega speaks more to a weakness in Japan than strength in Asia though. And Sega is the only company where the two regions are at all competitive, if nearly 2:1 is really competitive.

The vast majority of SE business comes from consumer games (¥196,016,000,000 out of ¥256,824,000,000) with the rest coming from arcades, publishing and merchandising. A breakdown isn't given of console/PC vs mobile/browser in this report although I do remember seeing it done elsewhere but I'll let you find that.

Capcom shipped 0 additional units of MHXX in Q1 going by their Platinum charts so your excuse here failed. For FY2017 they shipped 3,500,000 packaged games to Japan vs 400,000 for Asia, showing a similar ratio vs Q1 2018.

Asia may well be a vital console market some day and there is real growth opportunity in the region. But the data we have shows it still remains a tiny fraction of Japan and the growth has been limited. Looking at unique game performances doesn't help either since we have no direct sales tracking for Asia and when given shipment figures it's only for extraordinary successes from PR statements. To discount the more comprehensive investor data we have from publishers like this seems like you wanting to steer the narrative more than anything.

We are looking at a 3:1 ratio for KT and 2:1 ratio for Sega. To me that's big enough, definitely not a tiny fraction.

As for SE, we don't know what exactly the split is between mobile and conosle, but I remember it's roughly 1:1. So that's ¥100,000,000,000 (keep in mind this is global, not just Japan) for console games. Asia's total income is ¥9,003,000,000 which is basically all console game (maybe they operate arcades in Taiwan, but I very much doubt it matters). So 9% of the (global) income of console game is from Asia. Keep in mind SE released FFXV, Deus Ex, Hitman, and Tomb Raider PS4 last year, all performing much better in the west than in Japan. So when we take out the big chunk of western income, the ratio between Japan and Asia gets even smaller.

For Capcom, I do not know why the ratio is so small. Maybe MHW will change that because that's the only Capcom title that appeals to Asia.

As for steering the narrative, I still believe actual game sales data is far more indicative than total income. Notice that the ratio changes from 7:1 to 3:1 for KT when we change the metric, and that's a drastic difference, so who is steering the narrative really?

Japanese market is clearly in a decline while Asia market, for the most part, is far from saturation. It's only logical that Japanese publishers would invest more in Asia, which is exactly what all of them are doing. You said "growth is limited" which is quite funny because no other console game market (or any game market really) grew faster than Asia in the last decade. Not ten years ago a Chinese or Korean localization news would be celebration worthy, now people are just used to it unless it's on Nintendo platform. In the meantime, Japan has been nothing but a sinking ship. Of course, Asia is not the only place Japanese companies are putting their bets on. In general, they are pushing their games harder in every other region. Not saying all of their investments will pay off (in particularly, MHW), but that's better than sitting there watching Japanese market shrink.
 
Okay, I gathered what data I could find of MH3U on Wii U to compare with MHXX Switch:

Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver.

Media Create:

01./00. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 84.277 / NEW <48,95%>
04./01. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 27.120 / 111.396 (-68%)
06./04. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 12.811 / 124.207 (-53%)
10./06. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 9.414 / 133.621 (-27%)
12./10. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.911 / 140.533 (-27%)
14./12. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.350 / 146.883 (-8%)
14./14. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 4.785 / 151.668 (-25%)

Famitsu:

01./00. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 94.973 / NEW <40-60%>
05./01. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 27.289 / 122.262 (-71%)
06./05. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 13.983 / 136.245 (-49%)
10./06. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 9.464 / 145.709 (-32%)
13./10. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.947 / 152.656 (-27%)
14./13. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 6.443 / 159.099 (-7%)
17./14. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. (Capcom) {2017.08.25} - 4.738 / 163.837

Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate HD Ver.

Media Create:

04./00. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 106.388 / NEW
12./04. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 23.213 / 129.601 (-78%)
31./12. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
27./31. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
29./27. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
21./29. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
31./21. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
35./31. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
47./35. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?
48./47. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - ? / ?

185. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 48.321 / 207.627
656./185. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 4.160 / 211.787 (106.388 <69,82%>)
812./656. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 2.327 / 214.114 (-44%) (106.388 <69,82%>)
962./812. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 1.171 / 215.285 (-50%) (106.388 <69,82%>)

Famitsu:

05./00. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 110.149 / NEW
12./05. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 25.492 / 135.641 (-77%)
-
27./00. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012-12-08} - 14,494 / 166,908 (-14%)
25./27. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 14.656 / 181.564 (+1%)
20./25. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 5.957 / 187.521 (-59%)
25./20. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 4.392 / 191.913 (-26%)
30./25. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 3.300 / 195.213 (-25%)

159. [WIU] Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (Capcom) {2012.12.08} - 58.078 / 224.986

So while MH3U sold more in the first week (note it came out on Dec 8th), it actually had far worse legs.
 

Vena

Member
I went to look around, so it's locked 30 FPS? Wow.

Its a half-assed port. They've basically half-assed this entire year or two, and its really hurt their ability to move software.

On some level, Capcom is becoming poison for their own products by association (and crippled budgets, and the audience learning not to buy your no-effort products).
 

Fiendcode

Member
We are looking at a 3:1 ratio for KT and 2:1 ratio for Sega. To me that's big enough, definitely not a tiny fraction.

As for SE, we don't know what exactly the split is between mobile and conosle, but I remember it's roughly 1:1. So that's ¥100,000,000,000 (keep in mind this is global, not just Japan) for console games. Asia's total income is ¥9,003,000,000 which is basically all console game (maybe they operate arcades in Taiwan, but I very much doubt it matters). So 9% of the (global) income of console game is from Asia. Keep in mind SE released FFXV, Deus Ex, Hitman, and Tomb Raider PS4 last year, all performing much better in the west than in Japan. So when we take out the big chunk of western income, the ratio between Japan and Asia gets even smaller.

For Capcom, I do not know why the ratio is so small. Maybe MHW will change that because that's the only Capcom title that appeals to Asia.

As for the steering the narrative, I still believe actual game sales data is far more indicative than total income. Notice that the ratio changes from 7:1 to 3:1 for KT when we change the metric, and that's a drastic difference, so who is steering the narrative really?
Your math on SE doesn’t make sense, arcade games (amusement) is already excluded from the figures there. And are you saying SE does no business on mobile or browser in Asia?

The Koei Tecmo ratio is still sizable, especially given their properties are well suited to wider Asia release (Nobunaga, Sangoku Musou, etc). They’re usually one of the companies people highlight as doing well in the region, but half their games globally are still sold in Japan.

And yes, you are trying to steer the narrative. Saying we should only look at relative Asia sales on a game by game basis, when the only Asian sales figures we get are from PR successes, is a self fulfilling cycle. The only reason to discount more comprehensive data like publisher IR results in favor of that would be if you’re setting out to paint a disingenuously positive picture. Even with overall revenue data, it’s not like the Asian console market is exactly bustling versus Asian mobile market so your complaint there seems misguided too.

MHW will be fun to watch regardless. I guess we will really see there if Asia+West can make up for Japan or not.
 

Laplasakos

Member
Bandai Namco doesn’t have unit data for Asia, only Japan, Americas and Europe. This suggests to me Asia isn’t a very relevant market for their console games and me using overall revenue figures is more likely overstating Asia for them in this context.

Koei Tecmo does include units but Japan still dwarfs Asia (3,060,000 to 1,070,000 FY2017). It is closer though.

Sega’s data is for packaged game sales, meaning both physical and digital but it excludes console/PC games falling under Sega Online like PSO2. I would argue the relative closeness for Sega speaks more to a weakness in Japan than strength in Asia though. And Sega is the only company where the two regions are at all competitive, if nearly 2:1 is really competitive.

The vast majority of SE business comes from consumer games (¥196,016,000,000 out of ¥256,824,000,000) with the rest coming from arcades, publishing and merchandising. A breakdown isn’t given of console/PC vs mobile/browser in this report although I do remember seeing it done elsewhere but I’ll let you find that.

Capcom shipped 0 additional units of MHXX in Q1 going by their Platinum charts so your excuse here failed. For FY2017 they shipped 3,500,000 packaged games to Japan vs 400,000 for Asia, showing a similar ratio vs Q1 2018.

Asia may well be a vital console market some day and there is real growth opportunity in the region. But the data we have shows it still remains a tiny fraction of Japan and the growth has been limited. Looking at unique game performances doesn’t help either since we have no direct sales tracking for Asia and when given shipment figures it’s only for extraordinary successes from PR statements. To discount the more comprehensive investor data we have from publishers like this seems like you wanting to steer the narrative more than anything.

I think Aters has a point here. What you posted is true but doing a 1:1 comparison (of the latest FY, which doesn't paint a full picture) does not seem fair. For example, the BN comparison isn't in units but in revenue. The SE number doesn't include only consumer games either. Koei Temco and Sega does seems to have a good ratio 3:1 and (almost) 2:1 but as i said i don't think this comparison is valid. Also, i doubt that all the work that gets to release in Japan arrives in all the other Asian countries.

Aside that, truth is that nobody doubts that Japan numbers are bigger than the rest of the other Asian countries. That's why i specifically talked about growth. It's your statement about a drop in the bucket that seems an exaggeration even after looking these numbers.
 

horuhe

Member
Shipments for the Neon SKU on Thursday and Gray SKU on Wednesday on Rakuten. It's expected another shipment for this weekend as well. So better numbers for next week.
 

Aters

Member
Your math on SE doesn’t make sense, arcade games (amusement) is already excluded from the figures there. And are you saying SE does no business on mobile or browser in Asia?

I believe that ¥9,003,000,000 number is for total income. I don't think SE has region breakdown for every category. So of course arcade should be included (otherwise the number is even more in my favor). SE made a push for Million Arthur blah blah in China some years ago. It was ok at the time but died down very quickly. Some mobile games have international servers, but none did extraordinarily well. Mobile game income data is easily accessible, and you can see their performance is not comparable to the boat loads of money they make in Japan.
 

Fiendcode

Member
I think Aters has a point here. What you posted is true but doing a 1:1 comparison (of the latest FY, which doesn't paint a full picture) does not seem fair. For example, the BN comparison isn't in units but in revenue. The SE number doesn't include only consumer games either. Koei Temco and Sega does seems to have a good ratio 3:1 and (almost) 2:1 but as i said i don't think this comparison is valid. Also, i doubt that all the work that gets to release in Japan arrives in all the other Asian countries.

Aside that, truth is that nobody doubts that Japan numbers are bigger than the rest of the other Asian countries. That's why i specifically talked about growth. It's your statement about a drop in the bucket that seems an exaggeration even after looking these numbers.
A drop in the bucket is a drop in the bucket. I’m not seeing you or Alters providing any data to the contrary here, and the data here shows Asia remaining a fraction of Japan.

As for growth, try clicking the links there and looking through their IR. Just looking at the publishers giving units Capcom has seen zero growth in Asia for 2 years now with none projected for this year as well. Asia grew less than Japan for Koei Tecmo from the previous year. And Sega is forecasting Japanese FY growth (+8%) with an Asian decline (-37%). This is why I said growth in Asia was limited, when you look at the actual data rather than just press releases about Sony bundled Yakuza games, you find the growth has been modest and inconsistent in reality.
 

Fiendcode

Member
I believe that ¥9,003,000,000 number is for total income. I don't think SE has region breakdown for every category. So of course arcade should be included (otherwise the number is even more in my favor). SE made a push for Million Arthur blah blah in China some years ago. It was ok at the time but died down very quickly. Some mobile games have international servers, but none did extraordinarily well. Mobile game income data is easily accessible, and you can see their performance is not comparable to the boat loads of money they make in Japan.
You are right on arcade games, they were only separated in the segments but not regions. I still have a hard time believing that ¥9B Asia data is “basically all console games” however unless you can source anything otherwise to that effect? Exactly which console games would SE have made $90m USD off of in Asia and why have we never heard about them?

Japan’s mobile industry may dwarf all others in Asia but so does their console industry and arguably to a greater degree. Which is sort of the point, revenue figures likely inflate any console comparison. They certainly seem to for Bandai Namco given their Asian unit sales are so insignificant they don’t even bother posting them.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Also just going to say that jumping ship is, imo, to some extent a cause of the sinking ship even as it is, perhaps, a reaction to it.

I don't think the Japanese market need be as weak as it is today. Focusing on RoW growths even as they came to be at odds with domestic desires is, imo, a reason that Japan does not have a better market than it has.

Chasing the west used to be a viable way to do both well in Japan and abroad in the NES through PS2 eras or so. (Those times also happened to be a boom time for Japan-focused games and offered them a chance to become RoW-focused games.)

What I would like to see come about is an effort to a) support the Japanese domestic console market at the same time as b) those efforts can also be brought out in and attractive to an increasing share of the RoW.

To bring this to the topic and say my piece: I don't think Asian sales are an "answer." I also don't think it is healthy to look for them to be an "answer." At the same time, I think they should be pursued.

I don't think they are a good target to seek instead of trying to push the Japanese market.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Famitsu Sales: Week 41, 2017 (Oct 02 - Oct 08)

01./00. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions <RPG> (Nintendo) {2017.10.05} (¥4.980) - 28.163 / NEW <40-60%>
02./04. [NSW] Splatoon 2 # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2017.07.21} (¥5.980) - 18.332 / 1.256.078 <80-100%> (-37%)
03./00. [PS4] Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen <ACT> (Capcom) {2017.10.05} (¥3.990) - 12.998 / NEW <80-100%>
04./02. [PS4] FIFA 18 # <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥7.800) - 12.916 / 69.840 <60-80%> (-77%)
05./08. [NSW] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe <RCE> (Nintendo) {2017.04.28} (¥5.980) - 12.773 / 678.918 <80-100%> (-17%)
06./05. [NSW] Pokken Tournament DX <FTG> (Pokemon Co.) {2017.09.22} (¥5.980) - 12.199 / 89.419 <60-80%> (-52%)
07./00. [PS4] Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 <ACT> (Ubisoft) {2017.10.05} (¥7.980) - 9.825 / NEW <40-60%>
08./01. [PS4] The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III # <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2017.09.28} (¥7.800) - 9.347 / 113.748 <80-100%> (-91%)
09./03. [NSW] Fire Emblem Warriors # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥7.800) - 8.436 / 49.042 <60-80%> (-79%)
10./07. [3DS] Pokemon Gold / Silver _3DS Virtual Console Version_ |DL| (Dedicated Download Card Special) <RPG> (Nintendo) {2017.09.22} (¥1.111) - 7.618 / 82.383 <80-100%> (-59%)
11./13. [NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2017.03.03} (¥6.980) - 6.718 / 533.397 <80-100%> (+0%)
12./06. [3DS] Fire Emblem Warriors |New Nintendo 2DS/New Nintendo 3DS| # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2017.09.28} (¥6.800) - 6.439 / 27.987 <40-60%> (-70%)
13./11. [PS4] Winning Eleven 2018 <SPT> (Konami) {2017.09.14} (¥7.600) - 5.711 / 104.391 <80-100%> (-44%)
14./15. [3DS] The Snack World: TreJarers <RPG> (Level 5) {2017.08.10} (¥4.800) - 5.062 / 183.089 <80-100%> (-16%)
15./12. [3DS] Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2017.07.29} (¥5.980) - 4.987 / 1.717.099 <80-100%> (-30%)
16./00. [PSV] Tokyo Clanpool # <RPG> (Compile Heart) {2017.10.05} (¥6.800) - 4.984 / NEW <40-60%>
17./14. [NSW] Monster Hunter Double Cross: Nintendo Switch Ver. # <ACT> (Capcom) {2017.08.25} (¥5.800) - 4.738 / 163.837 <60-80%> (-26%)
18./09. [NSW] FIFA 18 <SPT> (Electronic Arts) {2017.09.29} (¥5.800) - 4.495 / 17.391 <60-80%> (-65%)
19./21. [NSW] Dragon Ball: Xenoverse 2 for Nintendo Switch <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2017.09.07} (¥6.800) - 3.954 / 40.197 <80-100%> (-6%)
20./25. [PS4] Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2017.07.29} (¥8.980) - 2.611 / 1.317.039 <80-100%> (-18%)
21./00. [PSV] Yuukyuu no Tierblade: Fragments of Memory # <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2017.10.05} (¥6.300) - 2.524 / NEW <60-80%>
22./26. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome amiibo <ETC> (Nintendo) {2016.11.23} (¥2.700) - 2.514 / 232.215 <80-100%> (-16%)
23./00. [PS4] Tropico 5: Complete Collection <Tropico 5 \ Tropico 5: Waterborne \ Tropico 5: Intelligence Strategy> <SLG> (Square Enix) {2017.10.05} (¥4.800) - 2.398 / NEW <40-60%>
24./16. [PS4] Fallout 4: Game of the Year Edition <Fallout 4 \ Fallout 4: Wasteland Workshop \ Fallout 4: Far Harbor \ Fallout 4: Automatron \ Fallout 4: Contraptions Workshop \ Fallout 4: Vault-Tec Workshop \ Fallout 4: Nuka-World> <RPG> (Bethesda Softworks) {2017.09.28} (¥5.980) - 2.197 / 7.741 <60-80%> (-60%)
25./18. [PS4] Destiny 2 <ACT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2017.09.06} (¥7.900) - 2.140 / 82.163 <80-100%> (-60%)
26./23. [PS4] Everybody's Golf <SPT> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2017.08.31} (¥5.900) - 2.136 / 150.344 <80-100%> (-42%)
27./00. [PS4] Grand Theft Auto V [New Price Edition] <ACT> (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2015.10.08} (¥4.990) - 2.083 / 300.750 <80-100%> (-7%)
28./22. [3DS] Metroid: Samus Returns # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2017.09.15} (¥4.980) - 2.082 / 42.437 <60-80%> (-49%)
29./00. [NSW] 1-2-Switch <ETC> (Nintendo) {2017.03.03} (¥4.980) - 1.883 / 225.096 <80-100%>
30./24. [NSW] Dragon Quest X: All in One Package <Dragon Quest X: Mezameshi Itsutsu no Shuzoku Online \ Dragon Quest X: Nemureru Yuusha to Michibiki no Meiyuu Online \ Dragon Quest X: Inishie no Ryuu no Denshou Online> <RPG> (Square Enix) {2017.09.21} (¥4.800) - 1.798 / 18.671 <60-80%> (-45%)

Top 30

PS4 - 11
NSW - 10
3DS - 7
PSV - 2

HARDWARE
Code:
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|System |  This Week |  Last Week |  Last Year |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|  NSW  |     38.425 |     74.500 |            |  1.847.008 |            |   1.847.008 |
| PS4 # |     25.398 |     34.564 |     32.525 |  1.416.694 |  1.100.926 |   5.338.310 |
| 3DS # |     23.406 |     20.680 |     34.119 |  1.407.303 |  1.058.309 |  23.318.716 |
| PSV # |      3.987 |      4.256 |      7.976 |    326.937 |    684.961 |   5.574.356 |
| XB1 # |        189 |         53 |        102 |      6.274 |      4.499 |      79.222 |
|  PS3  |         46 |         24 |        595 |     16.019 |     44.844 |  10.273.738 |
|  WIU  |         35 |         32 |      2.561 |     21.016 |    296.230 |   3.300.754 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|  ALL  |     91.486 |    134.109 |     77.878 |  5.041.251 |  3.189.769 |  49.732.104 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| XB1 S |        189 |         53 |            |      1.492 |            |       7.220 |
|PS4 Pro|      6.265 |      6.921 |            |    257.847 |            |     374.897 |
|  PS4  |     19.133 |     27.643 |     32.525 |  1.158.847 |  1.100.926 |   4.963.413 |
|  PSV  |      3.987 |      4.256 |      7.976 |    326.937 |    684.961 |   5.574.356 |
|n-2DSLL|     13.979 |     10.081 |            |    324.918 |            |     324.918 |
|  2DS  |      1.227 |      1.329 |     13.870 |    246.156 |     63.012 |     543.303 |
| n-3DS |      8.200 |      9.270 |     19.991 |    836.229 |    946.401 |   5.530.218 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
 

Fiendcode

Member
Also just going to say that jumping ship is, imo, to some extent a cause of the sinking ship even as it is, perhaps, a reaction to it.

I don't think the Japanese market need be as weak as it is today. Focusing on RoW growths even as they came to be at odds with domestic desires is, imo, a reason that Japan does not have a better market than it has.

Chasing the west used to be a viable way to do both well in Japan and abroad in the NES through PS2 eras or so. (Those times also happened to be a boom time for Japan-focused games and offered them a chance to become RoW-focused games.)

What I would like to see come about is an effort to a) support the Japanese domestic console market at the same time as b) those efforts can also be brought out in and attractive to an increasing share of the RoW.

To bring this to the topic and say my piece: I don't think Asian sales are an "answer." I also don't think it is healthy to look for them to be an "answer." At the same time, I think they should be pursued.

I don't think they are a good target to seek instead of trying to push the Japanese market.
I think this makes sense. Asia and the west should be pursued but not necessairily at the expense of Japan, any global strategy should be all inclusive. Fortunately current major platforms (PS4, XB1, Switch, Windows PC) can more easily accomodate this than in the past this with a multiplatform approach and Japanese publishers would do well to take advantage of that.
 

D.Lo

Member
As for steering the narrative, I still believe actual game sales data is far more indicative than total income. Notice that the ratio changes from 7:1 to 3:1 for KT when we change the metric, and that's a drastic difference, so who is steering the narrative really?
Lol what? That shows Asia is vastly less lucrative per sale. Why would that make it more attractive?
 

MoonFrog

Member
I think this makes sense. Asia and the west should be pursued but not necessairily at the expense of Japan, any global strategy should be all inclusive. Fortunately current major platforms (PS4, XB1, Switch, Windows PC) can more easily accomodate this than in the past this with a multiplatform approach and Japanese publishers would do well to take advantage of that.

Exactly how I think.
 
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