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[BajiBoxer]

Well, some people out there that served this country might be upset, and that is ok that they are upset. I understand the message but people might be offended and think there is a better time/ another way to protest police brutality.

If they claim to have fought for the freedoms of U.S. citizens, but care more about a piece of cloth as much as, or more than, the murder of fellow citizens by those in authority, the claim rings a bit hollow. If you've known someone murdered, beaten, or harassed by police then the reaction of most of those people complaining about the peaceful protest is infuriating. When you're putting the two on equal footing, that's as anti-American as you get. When anyone thinks a Kaep taking a knee is worse than my family member's murder by police, I will always think less of them and question their patriotism. So no, I don't think it's ok at all. They may have been fighting for a cause important to them, but it certainly wasn't all of our freedoms or out constitutional rights.

 

[D1renegade]

Lmao. Instead of drawing a line in the sand to condemn those that support white supremacicts and police brutality this dude wants us to hold hands and unite with them

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Some people get upset because they think they are disrespecting our military and this is an attack on our veterans. I thought this was known

I view that as a racist cover.

This is the argument my friends father continues to fall on. He can be shifted slightly to an understanding that it's about unfair police practices and brutality, but within days conservative media has convinced him again that's it's all about hating the flag and veterans.

Basically he'd rather black and brown people just sit down and shut up. He can be given a reality check occasionally, you can tell he doesn't like to think about it, but given the chance to brush it all off as black peeps hating our veterans and disrespecting their service, he jumps right back in.

Which in my eyes makes him a racist.

He'd rather believe conservative fiction than admit they might be right.

 

[Mesoian]

Lmao. Instead of drawing a line in the sand to condemn those that support white supremacicts and police brutality this dude wants us to hold hands and unite with them

I am not surprised that the white solution to this entire thing is, "Please just coddle the racists. They need understanding, they don't know what they're doing."

Fuck that.

 

[old manatee]

Man Eminem really rustled everybody's jimmies.

 

[CopperPuppy]

Thank you for not reading the letter?



I think if you don't get the context of Boyer / Kaep; it sounds like he's asking Kaep to compromise. The context of Boyer writing the letter is that he was the one who talked Kaep to compromise by kneeling (and compliments him for being willing to do it in the letter), and that now he wants Trump to move halfway as well and meet Kaep to talk about the issue. Which would give Kaep immense validation (he got the President of the United States to meet with him) and force the conversation to leave the realm of the football field (where Trump can conflate it with patriotism). Read the letter - he never asks Kaep to do anything except meet with Trump if Trump offered (which...I'm pretty damn sure Kaep would want if his goal is to talk about police brutality), and then puts the onus on Trump to meet with Kaep. I mean, his "compromise" is that Kaep and Trump would meet. Which is way more beneficial for Kaep than Trump.

I mean, he's pretty obviously not anti-protest, considering he is the one who got Kaep to kneel and then praised / praises Kaep for it.

Hm, I guess fake sarcastic gratitude is one way to respond to my point without actually, you know, responding to it.

I'll help you out since you misunderstand the thing you apparently read:

Earlier this week I sat down with a group of five Combat Arms and Special Operations Veterans. The round table discussed our individual feelings on the flag, the anthem, and the players who knelt when it was played. We all had very different takes, but what surprised me most at the end of the discussion was that we all agreed on one thing. Colin Kaepernick and President Trump should be the ones uniting our country together. Wait...what? I know it sounds crazy, but maybe that's exactly what we need to see. Maybe that's how we start to heal. Two men sit in a room and talk, simple as that.

That's how it all started with Colin and I, neither of us knew that kneeling would be the result of our conversation. Colin wanted to sit, I wanted him to stand, and so we found a common ground on a knee alongside his teammates. I believe that progress and real change happens in this world when you reach across the divide, you build a bridge, you swallow your pride, you open your mind, you embrace what you don't understand, and ultimately you surrender.

Explain it to me: how is that not asking for Colin and Trump to do what Boyer and Colin did? Which is, you know, compromise?

 

[schwabdizzle]

Ok. As said a million times.

Someone says this:
Not about that. It's about black people getting murdered. Same as flying flag half mast when tragedy happens. Inequality in our country and injustice is a tragedy.

Now what?

You need to ask those people that are offended, not me. I can't answer all these questions.

 

[PBY]

You need to ask those people that are offended, not me. I can't answer all these questions.

Lol this is some wishy washy nonsense.

 

[boiled goose]

You need to ask those people that are offended, not me. I can't answer all these questions.

You said you understood them.... :/

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

You need to ask those people that are offended, not me. I can't answer all these questions.

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Mesoian]

You need to ask those people that are offended, not me. I can't answer all these questions.

I guess in the meantime I'll just watch those same people try to spin this whole thing like it's about them.

Again.

Jesus...

 

[Mael]

I can understand trying to find a middleground between regulating industries with a heavy hand vs letting the actors find a way to police themselves.
I cannot understand trying to find a middleground between "stop killing our kids" vs "we want a white ethnostate".

 

[schwabdizzle]

You need to ask those people that are offended, not me. I can't answer all these questions.

I gave a valid answer to why I understand some people could be offended, but that's really it. A lot you all disagree, and that is ok about the military background, but someone in the military who served might look at it differently is all I am saying. Like I said before protesting during the anthem is OK with me. Even the Green Beret in the article talked about how his fellow berets had different opinions on it, even though he didn't share specific ones.

 

[AuthenticM]

I believe that progress and real change happens in this world when you reach across the divide, you build a bridge, you swallow your pride, you open your mind, you embrace what you don't understand, and ultimately you surrender.

Herein lies the fuckin' problem. Conservatives don't want to do that. History has proven it.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

don't give a fuck that he's a green beret, he's white so he doesn't know what it's like to be targeted for the color of your skin. don't tell us how to protest.

 

[boiled goose]

I gave a valid answer to why I understand some people could be offended, but that's really it. A lot you you all disagree about the military background, but someone in the military or served might look at it differently is all I am saying.

Valid answer? Where???

I already provided the most obvious, repeated response to knewjerk offense.

Then you said you dont know how to answer.

They might see it differently because of racism. Are black veterans equally offended?

Until you provide an alternative instead of just say "differently". It's racism

 

[Razorback]

I think it's pretty clear that compromise is impossible.

But now what? What is the plan here? Civil War?

 

[Eusis]

I think he'd have a point if we had any other president that was dismayed by the display, or between him and the NFL. But Trump distorts and twists things, and he won't reach across. By all means if Trump can be changed I'd want it to happen, but he'd probably stop at nothing short of Kaepernick saying he was wrong and should have been standing. And probably still shit talk him.

 

[boiled goose]

I think it's pretty clear that compromise is impossible.

But now what? What is the plan here? Civil War?

Of course not.
Fighting politically and winning.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I think it's pretty clear that compromise is impossible.

But now what? What is the plan here? Civil War?

Some people are so eager for violence instead just, you know, winning elections and fixing flawed policy. Incredible.

 

[The Ummah]

I gave a valid answer to why I understand some people could be offended, but that's really it. A lot you you all disagree about the military background, but someone in the military or served might look at it differently is all I am saying.

There's plenty of racism/prejudice in the military also. Speaking from experience, I am a veteran. Military or not, if you have a problem with the protests and the reasons for it...well...

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Let me just say the blanket statements need to stop. Saying all police are bad and complicit, all republicans are nazi's/white supremacists etc.

This is what drives the non-racist, anti police brutality republicans nuts.

You'd think the racism, defense & complicity with police brutality from both parties and the government itself would drive the non-racist anti police brutality republicans nuts, right?

If both sides stopped using hyperbolic and exaggerated claims on what the "other side" is doing, that would be a start.

None of those examples were hyperbolic or exaggerated claims of response from the right to police brutality.

 

[see5harp]

I understand why we should respect our military but why they gotta always make it seem like it's some huge ass sacrifice? You weren't drafted, went voluntarily, and make an incredibly good living. You probably make as much if not more than a starting teacher who had to go to college and then get accredited.

 

[LifEndz]

I really wish people would stop using my military service to support their oppressive opinions. I enlisted right out of high school and took an oath to defend the constitution. Not some goddamn flag, not some goddamn civic pride ceremony before a football game, but the constitution. And that constitution allows for free speech.

But let’s be real, none of this is about the vets or the military. This country could give two shits about its veterans. Go to any major city and see for yourself. I see more veterans begging for change everyday in nyc than I can stomach. This is about blacks demanding justice, something this country has prospered off of denying us.

 

[Mesoian]

Of course not.
Fighting politically and winning.

It's the only thing we can do that won't get us locked up (at least right now). But who knows, voting while black is a thing.

 

[Cybit]

I think its bullshit that he even asked Kaep to compromise, and clearly doesn't understand the broader issues and forces at play. Thinking that sitting down with Trump, a white supremacist, to hammer out some sort of deal is the path forward is a nonsense fantasy.

A) Trump wasn't president when Boyer and Kaep talked.

B) It's hard for me to believe that the guy who spent a year in Sudan during the Darfur crisis, 6 years in Iraq and Afghanistan as Special Forces, aka trainers and liasions between the US military and the local populace, and actually talked to Kaep himself about the protest and what it means to Kaep is the one who is going to not "understand" the forces at play.

C) In the letter he wrote, he received correspondence from fellow Green Berets and added them:

"Hey Brother, this is J. I spent nearly 18 years in 10th Special Forces Group and wish I had an opportunity to meet a brother like yourself. I just want to say I appreciate your views on this national anthem and flag issue. I love our country, but at the same time I have to take the time to tell my sons to act a certain way out of fear for their lives when dealing with police officers. Most of my neighbors and friends here in MD are law enforcement personnel and will tell you they also have to act a certain way to avoid confrontation and situations that normally don't occur for those that are not of color. Not all officers are bad, the majority I believe are good and poor training is attributed to some of these issues we hear of. I really just want to thank you for your taking the time out to understand and convincing him to take a knee and not sit out on what we have fought for. God Bless You Bro!

D) Kaep's goal is to bring attention to the matter and spark change and conversation. Forcing a meeting with the president is about as high profile as you can get in doing so. Hell; that was BLM's strategy during the Democratic primary. Force conversations with Sanders and Clinton. Even if they blew off BLM, it raises the national profile of the group.

I guess here's the part I am not understanding - why would Kaep meeting with the President be a compromise on Kaep's part? That's a freaking win condition for any activist. Assuming Trump is a giant asshat who blows him off / etc etc, then you can put him on blast for disingenuously meeting with you. All a meeting with Trump does is make this issue even more high profile and high visibility than it currently is. Which gets activists re-energized and ready to fight if Trump blows him off (which we will assume he does). There is zero negative change to the status quo for Kaepernick to try to meet with Trump.

EDIT:

Explain it to me: how is that not asking for Colin and Trump to do what Boyer and Colin did? Which is, you know, compromise?

As an activist, having a high profile meeting with POTUS is precisely the thing I would want. He's trying to help Kaep out and get his message out even further. He never says anything about stopping the protests or what the outcome of the meeting should be, and that's fairly deliberate.

 

[schwabdizzle]

There's plenty of racism/prejudice in the military also. Speaking from experience, I am a veteran. Military or not, if you have a problem with the protests and the reasons for it...well...

That wouldn't surprise me.

 

[The Last Wizard]

I mean this is "both sides" just very nicely worded.

Got motherfuckers marching with fire that want to exterminate myself and my wife and child and my president calling them very fine people. So forgive me if I pick a side on this one, champ.

Got cops straight up murdering folks with zero consequences. The opposite in fact. The full resources of the state comes to defend them. Mofos can be caught on tape saying "Im gonna kill" then kill and not get found guilty.

It's not that I hate "the right" it's just I hate the fact that mofos hate my guts and seek to push back against it. If folks were half as outraged at police brutality as they are at Kaepernick this wouldn't be a problem in America anymore.

This right here man. This fucking right here. It’s an easy solution if the people who are offended actually listened and helped it be solved.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I understand why we should respect our military but why they gotta always make it seem like it's some huge ass sacrifice? You weren't drafted, went voluntarily, and make an incredibly good living. You probably make as much if not more than a starting teacher who had to go to college and then get accredited.

You have a point but some people are forced into it to escape poverty. If it's the only choice available to you then it's not much of a choice.

 

[thepenguin55]

Yeah, but Colin Kaepernick found common ground because he's a reasonable human being.

The traitor will just try to exploit the situation to make it seem like Kaepernick was on his side the whole time while he was calling the guy's mom a bitch on national television.

I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in people hugging it out with that orange shit stain on the presidency. Dude is a goddamn traitor and deserves to be cursed with satire for all time. Kaepernick is doing everything right.

Great first comment! I think Nate Boyer's heart is in the right place but the fact that he seems to think both sides are at equal fault for what has been going on speaks to him being naive or having lived something of a sheltered life. I can entertain the "both sides" argument but only if it's acknowledged that one side is very VERY wrong...

 

[Measley]

It's the president's job to unite people, not an athlete's job.

Also Colin is simply exerting his rights to highlight a social injudtice. Trump is purposely dividing the country for political gain.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Some people are so eager for violence instead just, you know, winning elections and fixing flawed policy. Incredible.

I think gerrymandering and racist voter restrictions have soured a lot of people on the possibility of turning things around by winning elections. If the court system doesn't put a stop to it violence may be inevitable.

 

[Razorback]

Of course not.
Fighting politically and winning.

Some people are so eager for violence instead just, you know, winning elections and fixing flawed policy. Incredible.

But after doing all that, you will still be left with hundreds of millions of people living in your country that absolutely hate your guts, and vice versa.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with that?

Hopefully, the hate will eventually fade away, even if it takes decades.

 

[platocplx]

Of course not.
Fighting politically and winning.

Yep. Pretty much need to use the same tactics republicans have been doing and beat them at their own game also kinda deal with Russian interference etc. It can be done.

This election was effectively decided by 107,000 people in these three states. Trump won the popular vote there by that combined amount. That amounts to 0.09 percent of all votes cast in this election.

Trump won Pennsylvania by
68,236 votes

Michigan By
11,837 votes

Wisconsin By
27,257 votes

Figuring out and focusing on where there were literally razor thin margins and flip back is pretty much it.

Most people do not know just how close this election was. Literally 100k people gave us this shit.

 

[CHC]

I mean this is "both sides" just very nicely worded.

Got motherfuckers marching with fire that want to exterminate myself and my wife and child and my president calling them very fine people. So forgive me if I pick a side on this one, champ.

Got cops straight up murdering folks with zero consequences. The opposite in fact. The full resources of the state comes to defend them. Mofos can be caught on tape saying "Im gonna kill" then kill and not get found guilty.

It's not that I hate "the right" it's just I hate the fact that mofos hate my guts and seek to push back against it. If folks were half as outraged at police brutality as they are at Kaepernick this wouldn't be a problem in America anymore.

Right there with you. I mean the case for inequality and racism being huge problems in this country has been illustrated so clearly, for so long, in so many different ways that anyone who chooses no to see it, or worse, actively argues against it, is just a worthless person to me.

I have no common ground with the right or any of its abhorrent offshoots or subcultures. I hate them, truly, with every fucking ounce of energy I have.

 

[Mesoian]

This right here man. This fucking right here. It’s an easy solution if the people who are offended actually listened and helped it be solved.

Yup. Unarmed black epople being gunned down in the street is something you step over, but you CHALLENGE 60 SECONDS OF PREGAME FOOTBALL and the country loses it's mind.

This is why a lot of people out there have no hope. "The game was made by white supremacists, but it's good so shut up, give me my video game. The movie was made by rapists, but it's good so shut up, give me my movie. The team is owned by a noted racist and thief, but they're my team so shut up and give me my football game.

They're murdering people that aren't like me in the streets. I don't care."

Everyone talks a big game but no one cares.

 

[RMI]

Relevant:

Came here for this. There's no common ground to be found when one side's entire position is predicated on the belief that they are superior on the basis of race.

 

[Via Purifico]

All this supposed outrage for veterans but they don't get the proper support when they come home from war but god forbid a black man gets too uppity they want to bring them up.


And I am going to need people to stop using MLK as some yu gi oh trap card.

 

[cdyhybrid]

A) Trump wasn't president when Boyer and Kaep talked.

B) It's hard for me to believe that the guy who spent a year in Sudan during the Darfur crisis, 6 years in Iraq and Afghanistan as Special Forces, aka trainers and liasions between the US military and the local populace, and actually talked to Kaep himself about the protest and what it means to Kaep is the one who is going to not "understand" the forces at play.

C) In the letter he wrote, he received correspondence from fellow Green Berets and added them:



D) Kaep's goal is to bring attention to the matter and spark change and conversation. Forcing a meeting with the president is about as high profile as you can get in doing so. Hell; that was BLM's strategy during the Democratic primary. Force conversations with Sanders and Clinton. Even if they blew off BLM, it raises the national profile of the group.

I guess here's the part I am not understanding - why would Kaep meeting with the President be a compromise on Kaep's part? That's a freaking win condition for any activist. Assuming Trump is a giant asshat who blows him off / etc etc, then you can put him on blast for disingenuously meeting with you. All a meeting with Trump does is make this issue even more high profile and high visibility than it currently is. Which gets activists re-energized and ready to fight if Trump blows him off (which we will assume he does). There is zero negative change to the status quo for Kaepernick to try to meet with Trump.

EDIT:

As an activist, having a high profile meeting with POTUS is precisely the thing I would want. He's trying to help Kaep out and get his message out even further. He never says anything about stopping the protests or what the outcome of the meeting should be, and that's fairly deliberate.

It would be a compromise because the President is not a good faith actor and has shown no indication that he's at all interested in legitimately discussing the issue.

Kaep would end up getting used for a photo op just like all the other black people that tried to meet with Trump in good faith and Trump will shit on him as soon as he walks out the door.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I kinda do hate the other side, yes. You caught me. I feel more than justified at this point.

Obama did try that "reach across the isle" bullshit and before you know it, out pops a President Trump.

Screw all of them. Also, this country will remain fucked as long as you got so many of these mindless zombies worshiping all these goddamn uniforms. It's immensely problematic. (but in Kaep's case, it's less about lazy patriotism, and more about you know, racism)

 

[boiled goose]

But after doing all that, you will still be left with hundreds of millions of people living in your country that absolutely hate your guts, and vice versa.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with that?

Hopefully, the hate will eventually fade away, even if it takes decades.

It does... Segregation was a thing in the 60s...

You can't kill hate or ignorance away. You win politically and educate

 

[AuthenticM]

I mean this is "both sides" just very nicely worded.

Got motherfuckers marching with fire that want to exterminate myself and my wife and child and my president calling them very fine people. So forgive me if I pick a side on this one, champ.

Got cops straight up murdering folks with zero consequences. The opposite in fact. The full resources of the state comes to defend them. Mofos can be caught on tape saying "Im gonna kill" then kill and not get found guilty.

It's not that I hate "the right" it's just I hate the fact that mofos hate my guts and seek to push back against it. If folks were half as outraged at police brutality as they are at Kaepernick this wouldn't be a problem in America anymore.

totally

 

[DrROBschiz]

It does... Segregation was a thing in the 60s...

You can't kill hate or ignorance away. You win politically and educate

Segregation is a thing now

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It does... Segregation was a thing in the 60s...

You can't kill hate or ignorance away. You win politically and educate

It's still a thing.

 

[CopperPuppy]

As an activist, having a high profile meeting with POTUS is precisely the thing I would want. He's trying to help Kaep out and get his message out even further. He never says anything about stopping the protests or what the outcome of the meeting should be, and that's fairly deliberate.

If you genuinely believe that Kaep meeting with Trump would be a victory on this issue, I have no clue what to tell you.

I guess, maybe, ask yourself this: how has that worked for everyone "lucky" enough to get a meeting with him so far?

 

[boiled goose]

I think gerrymandering and racist voter restrictions have soured a lot of people on the possibility of turning things around by winning elections. If the court system doesn't put a stop to it violence may be inevitable.

Stop being absurd. Civil war is not happening over nfl protests or police brutality.

Heard of fucking jim crow? Vietnam war? Civil rights marches?

The majority of country is not with Trump. He didn't even win popular vote

Women didn't have a right to vote and won. Now that's a voter restriction.

 

[AColdDay]

.


What is the argument in your words? Simple question

That we overgeneralize the other side in order to be "right". We are more concerned with being "right" than finding solutions.

Looking at the other people who are quoting my post only confirms my belief. Not everyone who voted Republican is a white supremacist and not everyone who feels that kneeling for the flag is disrespectful is a racist.

See:

One side wants to murder people because of their skin color.

There isn't a "this side" or a "that side", there are a whole spectrum of sides. How have we lost the ability to see any nuance in these arguments.

People like yourself are real big on pushing some middle ground you are incapable of arguing for, or even articulating what that middle ground is. Lots of specifics are given on why this middle ground is bullshit, so maybe you should address them specifically.

The middle ground being bullshit means that there are one of two options available, the "right" option and the "wrong" option. There are a million options, and yes many of them are actually in the middle. and we aren't going to find any of them by labeling all Democrats as abortion-loving welfare addicts or Republicans as racist gun-loving bigots.

Unity and healing is great.

But one side wants cops to stop murdering brown people and the other side wants them to STFU.

So like... what exactly is your solution Mr. "let go of principles so we can fix things"?

Again and again and again. There are no sides! There actually isn't a whole collective of guys wearing white shirts who are good upstanding people, and the other collective of guys wearing black who want to murder everything. There are a hundred different arguments supported by a lots of different groups of people. Some of them are beautiful calls of unity, some of them are self-righteous calls for "justice" (guess what, both liberals and conservatives have their own versions of this group), and some of absolute gutter trash.

Just because you have your argument, shouldn't lump everyone else in the other "absolute gutter trash" camp. Just because we have a garbage, reprehensible republican president doesn't mean that everyone who supported him is a bad guy. Are some of them misguided? Absolutely. Some of them have been absolutely lied to. They believe a lie told to them by a master liar!

But guess how any of these problems are going to get solved? By the two sides actually swallowing their pride and talking. We are all so caught up in our righteousness that we refuse to talk to each other.

You can call me naive for believing that most problems can be solved by actually having a conversation and talking out issues. You go ahead and live your bubble, surrounded by people who will echo chamber your position and you all can pat yourself on the back about how great you are, and how abhorrent the other side is. There are plenty of people on the other side doing the exact same thing and neither one of you are going to actually contribute anything. All of you have an addiction, and that addiction is outrage.

 

[Gutek]

OK. calm down. I just understand how someone COULD be offended.

Why are these people not offended by unarmed black people being shot in the back by police?

 

[Jmanunknown]

But let’s be real, none of this is about the vets or the military. This country could give two shits about its veterans. Go to any major city and see for yourself. I see more veterans begging for change everyday in nyc than I can stomach. This is about blacks demanding justice, something this country has prospered off of denying us.

This is so sad the situation with Vets. The people in charge or those who want to deflect from the issue they do not want to talk about criminal justice reform are using Vets as a shield. Its sad especially considering the issues a lot of vets face. Here are some sad stats about the situation. Veterans are 50% more likely to become homeless than other Americans and on top of that to add on to the racism issue 56% of all homeless veterans are African-American or Hispanic.

 

[Cybit]

It would be a compromise because the President is not a good faith actor and has shown no indication that he's at all interested in legitimately discussing the issue.

Kaep would end up getting used for a photo o.o just like all the other black people that tried to meet with Trump in good faith and Trump will shit on him as soon as he walks out the door.

I guess I'm taking it from the perspective of "forcing Trump to meet with Kaep" would end up being a much bigger boon for visibility and conversation than anything Trump could do after the fact. I don't see how Trump being forced to meet with Kaep after saying everything he has would make the status quo any worse than it is, and I see even a full on rejection by Trump would re-energize activists.

If you genuinely believe that Kaep meeting with Trump would be a victory on this issue, I have no clue what to tell you.

I guess, maybe, ask yourself this: how has that worked for everyone "lucky" enough to get a meeting with him so far?

Has there even been a non Congressional liberal / progressive group that has met with Trump in the WH? AFAIK there has not been one. That would be a big part of the victory - forcing Trump to stand down.

Also, look at what happened when Schumer and Pelosi got a chance to meet with Trump - they got a ton of leverage on DACA merely by meeting with him and letting him shoot himself in the foot. Trump's a terrible negotiator and a people pleaser. Use that to our advantage.