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[Whitephantomzx]

How are we still spouting this middle ground bullshit so do POC get half there rights do and maybe not get killed everytime they meet cop. And yes im being fuckin desive because compromising on your human rights is just the same as giving them all up . But i thats too much for some people guess we should have compromised on salavery too !

 

[chaos789]

YUP.

Literally there are full sites like this:https://www.joincampaignzero.org

with exceptional talking points about whats wrong with policing in america.


No one wants to listen they just want to keep everything the same.

Thank you for this posting this. I agree with a majority of what I read, but this is the first I have heard about this campaign.

 

[boiled goose]

That we overgeneralize the other side in order to be "right". We are more concerned with being "right" than finding solutions.

Looking at the other people who are quoting my post only confirms my belief. Not everyone who voted Republican is a white supremacist and not everyone who feels that kneeling for the flag is disrespectful is a racist.

See:



There isn't a "this side" or a "that side", there are a whole spectrum of sides. How have we lost the ability to see any nuance in these arguments.



The middle ground being bullshit means that there are one of two options available, the "right" option and the "wrong" option. There are a million options, and yes many of them are actually in the middle. and we aren't going to find any of them by labeling all Democrats as abortion-loving welfare addicts or Republicans as racist gun-loving bigots.




Again and again and again. There are no sides! There actually isn't a whole collective of guys wearing white shirts who are good upstanding people, and the other collective of guys wearing black who want to murder everything. There are a hundred different arguments supported by a lots of different groups of people. Some of them are beautiful calls of unity, some of them are self-righteous calls for "justice" (guess what, both liberals and conservatives have their own versions of this group), and some of absolute gutter trash.

Just because you have your argument, shouldn't lump everyone else in the other "absolute gutter trash" camp. Just because we have a garbage, reprehensible republican president doesn't mean that everyone who supported him is a bad guy. Are some of them misguided? Absolutely. Some of them have been absolutely lied to. They believe a lie told to them by a master liar!

But guess how any of these problems are going to get solved? By the two sides actually swallowing their pride and talking. We are all so caught up in our righteousness that we refuse to talk to each other.

You can call me naive for believing that most problems can be solved by actually having a conversation and talking out issues. You go ahead and live your bubble, surrounded by people who will echo chamber your position and you all can pat yourself on the back about how great you are, and how abhorrent the other side is. There are plenty of people on the other side doing the exact same thing and neither one of you are going to actually contribute anything. All of you have an addiction, and that addiction is outrage.

I dont see many saying all conservatives or Republicans support trump or are against protests. People are specifically talking about those specific people offended by protests.

You pretending people are attacking a strawman is a strawman.

And who the fuck isn't talking?? The protesters have explained their position over and over.

Your post might be the worst in the thread.

The only pride that needs to be swallowed is the duped trump supporters you reference... Who the fuck else??

 

[Conor_Fool]

Kneeling in silence is the most peaceful protest you can do, but ti was met with

Jesus, never saw this.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I guess I'm taking it from the perspective of "forcing Trump to meet with Kaep" would end up being a much bigger boon for visibility and conversation than anything Trump could do after the fact. I don't see how Trump being forced to meet with Kaep after saying everything he has would make the status quo any worse than it is, and I see even a full on rejection by Trump would re-energize activists.

Kaep has more than enough visibility and conversation. It has resulted in nothing. The anthem protest is the biggest story in the biggest sports entity in the country and has drawn comments from the goddamn President. It's getting covered on CNN and Fox News. Awareness really isn't an issue.

Activists don't need to be energized. This country gets worse by the day, if that isn't enough nothing will be. The fight for equality doesn't require a meeting with someone actively fighting against it to keep moving forward.

I dont see many saying all conservatives or Republicans support trump or are against protests. People are specifically talking about those specific people offended by protests.

You pretending people are attacking a strawman is a strawman.

And who the fuck isn't talking?? The protesters have explained their position over and over.

Your post might be the worst in the thread.

Dude is using terms like echo chamber. You know what time it is.

 

[Mesoian]

I guess I'm taking it from the perspective of "forcing Trump to meet with Kaep" would end up being a much bigger boon for visibility and conversation than anything Trump could do after the fact. I don't see how Trump being forced to meet with Kaep after saying everything he has would make the status quo any worse than it is, and I see even a full on rejection by Trump would re-energize activists.

This is literally the best we could hope for knowing Trump.

Jesus, never saw this.

OH their back peddle was legendary.

Fuck these people.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

I think it's pretty clear that compromise is impossible.

But now what? What is the plan here? Civil War?

We're already in a dystopia and I honestly don't see it getting any better.

We're in the information age and cyberwar is real. If voters are so misinformed from TV news and Facebook, how can we trust voters to elect the best politicians?

How can we make sure the politicians dismantle, amend & maintain the best policy in the interest of all people or at least all citizens and not take the money of lobbyist to ensure the best policy for powerful corporate interests?

I really don't think politics are going to save us. Our country already has the highest amount of people in prisons, probably of the next leading countries combined. None of that is random, imo. I really don't think it's going to get any better. And there's no way citizens are going to match against the military and police forces that protect corporate interests

We're kinda fucked

 

[PBY]

A) Trump wasn't president when Boyer and Kaep talked.

B) It's hard for me to believe that the guy who spent a year in Sudan during the Darfur crisis, 6 years in Iraq and Afghanistan as Special Forces, aka trainers and liasions between the US military and the local populace, and actually talked to Kaep himself about the protest and what it means to Kaep is the one who is going to not "understand" the forces at play.

C) In the letter he wrote, he received correspondence from fellow Green Berets and added them:



D) Kaep's goal is to bring attention to the matter and spark change and conversation. Forcing a meeting with the president is about as high profile as you can get in doing so. Hell; that was BLM's strategy during the Democratic primary. Force conversations with Sanders and Clinton. Even if they blew off BLM, it raises the national profile of the group.

I guess here's the part I am not understanding - why would Kaep meeting with the President be a compromise on Kaep's part? That's a freaking win condition for any activist. Assuming Trump is a giant asshat who blows him off / etc etc, then you can put him on blast for disingenuously meeting with you. All a meeting with Trump does is make this issue even more high profile and high visibility than it currently is. Which gets activists re-energized and ready to fight if Trump blows him off (which we will assume he does). There is zero negative change to the status quo for Kaepernick to try to meet with Trump.

EDIT:

As an activist, having a high profile meeting with POTUS is precisely the thing I would want. He's trying to help Kaep out and get his message out even further. He never says anything about stopping the protests or what the outcome of the meeting should be, and that's fairly deliberate.

I honestly don't give a fuck what this soldier has done. He's a white dude telling a black dude how to protest racialized police brutality. He can shut the fuck up and accept the protest on the terms of the marginalized group, otherwise his opinion is meaningless to me.

 

[boiled goose]

We're already in a dystopia and I honestly don't see it getting any better.

We're in the information age and cyberwar is real. If voters are so misinformed from TV news and Facebook, how can we trust voters to elect the best politicians?

How can we make sure the politicians dismantle, amend & maintain the best policy in the interest of all people or at least all citizens and not take the money of lobbyist to ensure the best policy for powerful corporate interests?

I really don't think politics are going to save us. Our country already has the highest amount of people in prisons, probably of the next leading countries combined. None of that is random, imo. I really don't think it's going to get any better. And there's no way citizens are going to match against the military and police forces that protect corporate interests

We're kinda fucked

Politics. Constitutional amendment. Electing politicians that are not corrupt. The only reason our country has been coopted is because too many people still cushy

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald . You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

Bullshit. r/the_donald is entitled to their opinions. Good for them.

But sorry I ain't gonna let your wag your finger in my face and chastize me about my fucking attitude when we have the temerity to speak out about social injustice. Now, I don't know the first thing about you. I don't know your background. What you've been through or the struggles you face. But I have enough respect for YOU as a human being that IF you were to express them I'd listen and really take to heart the issues you face and see what we can change to help them. Problem is many people on r/the_donald (and some on this very forum in this very thread) don't give a FLYING FUCK about that.

You want to know WHY it's not "fixing anything" because there's a side that CONSTANTLY says "Nope, no problem here" and "Nope, we don't see anything wrong." when we attempt a dialogue. This is what you missing. We get MOCKED for talking about social justice for all. (social justice warriors! hur dur!" We been trying to talk for centuries and motherfuckers gotta be dragged kicking and screaming to do the right thing. Every single fucking time.

So yea, sorry not sorry I'm entrenched when motherfuckers marching in the streets for a White-only America where my family would be slaughtered on the spot or given the choice to "go back to Africa" (leaving their possessions, their wealth here for them to scavenge of course)

Read a history book. Get educated on the issue before you reply to me.

 

[AColdDay]

Why are these people not offended by unarmed black people being shot in the back by police?

They are ignorant because they have never had the exposure to the issue. They didn't have that person in their life that connected them to the issue. Many of these people don't actually know a single black person who could humanize the issue. They are ignorant and they exist in a world where people fight to keep them ignorant or outright manipulate them.

Everyone of us has issues that are blind spots to us. Each of us is ignorant to something. Why am I not more outraged by DACA? Because I don't know anyone impacted by that. People only deeply care about issues when they have a personal connection to them. I'm not saying that I support what is happening with DACA, I have empathy but I'm not going to march on Capitol Hill or anything.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Politics. Constitutional amendment. Electing politicians that are not corrupt. The only reason our country has been coopted is because too many people still cushy

I'm not sure I understand this reply. Are you saying these things are what we need or can realistically do in favor of the people?

 

[Garlador]

I agree with him that it's not even about the anthem, or the flag, or the troops... it's about left versus right and winning at all costs.

I disagree that "both sides" are equivocal. And I say that as someone who is still a registered member of the Republican party and has been vocally critical of their behavior for some time.

 

[Jmanunknown]

That we overgeneralize the other side in order to be "right". We are more concerned with being "right" than finding solutions.

Looking at the other people who are quoting my post only confirms my belief. Not everyone who voted Republican is a white supremacist and not everyone who feels that kneeling for the flag is disrespectful is a racist.

This is one those situations where anyone who voted for Donald Trump they actively supported someone is without a doubt racist and who filled his cabinet with literally racists, white supremacists, and actual nazi's. Also it should not have been a shock since Trump ran the most racist campaign since before the civil rights movement started and probably since jim crow laws were still a thing.

You can call me naive for believing that most problems can be solved by actually having a conversation and talking out issues. You go ahead and live your bubble, surrounded by people who will echo chamber your position and you all can pat yourself on the back about how great you are, and how abhorrent the other side is. There are plenty of people on the other side doing the exact same thing and neither one of you are going to actually contribute anything. All of you have an addiction, and that addiction is outrage.

Black people have been talking about criminal justice reform for a long time. A majority of the country just refuses to have that conversation. You can not have a conversation when only one side is actually willing to have the conversation while the other side continues to oppress and or completely ignore the side.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Stop being absurd. Civil war is not happening over nfl protests or police brutality.

Heard of fucking jim crow? Vietnam war? Civil rights marches?

The majority of country is not with Trump. He didn't even win popular vote

Women didn't have a right to vote and won. Now that's a voter restriction.

I never mentioned war, but I do think political violence will escalate if nothing is done to stop gerrymandering and racially targeted voter restrictions. We aren't at the level of civil unrest seen in the 60's or in support of women's suffrage in the early 20th century, but we're heading in that direction.

The current Republican party cannot be relevant at the national level without these roadblocks in place and the propaganda used to support them. They aren't going to give either of these tools up unless they're forced to by either the courts or though massive civil unrest. Despite receiving fewer votes the GOP almost has enough power to change the Constitution (with the Senate being the largest roadblock). That cannot continue if this country is to survive.

 

[blakep267]

I would normally say he has a point, but the otherside is white supremacists. There is no middle ground to be had with them.

YEAH I'm getting tired of this whole uniting and dividing thing. The other side has white supremacists and nazis. There is not uniting and accepting of that. So yes I want to "win"

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Eeeeeehhhhh fuck this letter.

When you can say that it's "only about winning" where winning for one side means less innocent dead people and winning for the other side means people can no longer protest about innocent people being killed, you can pretty much just fuck off cause you don't understand shit.

Fuck off and go learn something.

THEN talk.

 

[The Ummah]

But guess how any of these problems are going to get solved? By the two sides actually swallowing their pride and talking. We are all so caught up in our righteousness that we refuse to talk to each other.

No. No. No.

Swallowing their pride, what the fuck? I'm sorry, these problems will NOT be solved by having a discussion. It's not a refusal to talk, it's people being blatantly and purposefully ignorant of the protest and the reasons for protesting.

 

[Via Purifico]

You'd think after the car incident where a white supremacist ran over and killed people that we'd stop with this uniting rhetoric.

 

[boiled goose]

I'm not sure I understand this reply. Are you saying these things are what we need or can realistically do in favor of the people?

Both.

We need and can do it

 

[Saint Gregory]

You'd think after the car incident where a white supremacist ran over and killed people that we'd stop with this uniting rhetoric.

That's already completely forgotten by one side sadly.

 

[boiled goose]

We should definitely be uniting.

Spoiler

against nazis, white supremacy,
and police brutality

 

[PBY]

We should definitely be uniting.

Spoiler

against nazis, white supremacy,
and police brutality

Pretty much. Those screaming for unity - the answer is pretty simple, you can also take a knee and stand for basic humanity.

 

[Cybit]

Kaep has more than enough visibility and conversation. It has resulted in nothing. The anthem protest is the biggest story in the biggest sports entity in the country and has drawn comments from the goddamn President. Is getting covered on CNN and Fox News. Awareness really isn't an issue.

Activists don't need to be energized. This country gets worse by the day, if that isn't enough nothing will be. The fight for equality doesn't require a meeting with someone actively fighting against it to keep moving forward.

Bolded for emphasis. That's sort of my point. What is being done now is not working. This current plan is merely spinning our wheels while we pat ourselves on the back for how moral we are. It ain't stopping people from getting shot. So at this point I'm willing to start taking other suggestions on what the heck to do. As for awareness - there are a lot of people in this country who don't follow sports, and anecdotally they tend to swing liberal more than not. My thought process is that it allies the anti-Trump liberal wing (aka the Resistance) closer and puts it on the forefront of their activities by making it more of a story outside sports. Could be wrong - but at least out here (in Seattle) all non Seahawks fans aren't paying that much attention to it.

Also, if the last 10 months have been any indication, give it a month and this will drop off the radar (or wait till the NFL season is over). I mean, we're talking about nuclear war and national health care as it is.

This is literally the best we could hope for knowing Trump.

Sadly, knowing Trump and how easily he has his mind changed - he could actually end up agreeing with Kaepernick and tweet something (before getting his mind changed again).

I honestly don't give a fuck what this soldier has done. He's a white dude telling a black dude how to protest racialized police brutality. He can shut the fuck up and accept the protest on the terms of the marginalized group, otherwise his opinion is meaningless to me.

OK, what about the black Green Beret he specifically quotes (and prints his letter in full) as being upset by Kaep sitting? Or does he not count?

 

[AColdDay]

I dont see many saying all conservatives or Republicans support trump or are against protests. People are specifically talking about those specific people offended by protests.

You pretending people are attacking a strawman is a strawman.

And who the fuck isn't talking?? The protesters have explained their position over and over.

Your post might be the worst in the thread.

The only pride that needs to be swallowed is the duped trump supporters you reference... Who the fuck else??

Call it a strawman and the worst post in the thread but I specifically quoted the exact people I was referencing and used their exact verbiage in my responses. A letter about open dialogue with people with opposing viewpoints results in posts about how we shouldn't be talking to white supremacists and when I call that out, I'M the strawman. Okay.

I'm not going to get cowed down by angry people, regardless if you are on Neogaf or Facebook. Call me naive, and insult me but I don't believe that this outrage culture is accomplishing anything.

 

[boiled goose]

Pretty much. Those screaming for unity - the answer is pretty simple, you can also take a knee and stand for basic humanity.

It's almost as if they want some sort of recognition that they (or people they know) aren't on the wrong side of history and decency.

Call it a strawman and the worst post in the thread but I specifically quoted the exact people I was referencing and used their exact verbiage in my responses. A letter about open dialogue with people with opposing viewpoints results in posts about how we shouldn't be talking to white supremacists and when I call that out, I'M the strawman. Okay.

I'm not going to get cowed down by angry people, regardless if you are on Neogaf or Facebook. Call me naive, and insult me but I don't believe that this outrage culture is accomplishing anything.

Wut...

Stop murdering unarmed black people.

Outrage culture!



The people with opposing views have already been told what the protest is about! Now what?

Let's have the conversation now. Protest is about police brutality and racial injustice.

Your turn.

The letter is simply ignorant. The side that is asking for racial equality cares about "winning". Well ..... Yeah. What's the other side care about???

 

[mentallyinept]

A well meaning, but ultimately ignorant letter about the state of the country.

There is no middle ground with White Supremacists\Nazis.

 

[spelen]

Imo it's the obsession with symbolism that's killing this country. It should be far more important to strive to become a good human being than it should be to stand to the national anthem or flag of any nation. Also I LOL'D at "we're supposed to be better than that, we're Americans" hate that statment to the core. There are 350 million ppl in this nation and until we recognize that a sizable chunk have big issues we ain't Everett going to get better.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

That we overgeneralize the other side in order to be "right". We are more concerned with being "right" than finding solutions.

Ok. What's your solution to this:

Looking at the other people who are quoting my post only confirms my belief. Not everyone who voted Republican is a white supremacist and not everyone who feels that kneeling for the flag is disrespectful is a racist.

The problem is you care MORE about people kneeling for the flag than you do about the dead people that they're kneeling about. Your priorities are shit. Or you care MORE about the way in which oppressed people respond to their oppression than the actual oppression.

There isn't a "this side" or a "that side", there are a whole spectrum of sides. How have we lost the ability to see any nuance in these arguments.

No one lost any ability to see nuance. You're just overreacting to criticisms of republicans and conservatives. What's what? It's not nice having people assume you're a piece of shit? Fucking tell me about it....

The middle ground being bullshit means that there are one of two options available, the "right" option and the "wrong" option. There are a million options, and yes many of them are actually in the middle. and we aren't going to find any of them by labeling all Democrats as abortion-loving welfare addicts or Republicans as racist gun-loving bigots.

Name some middle grounds that would have kept Oscar Grant, Dontre Hamilton, Eric Garner, John Crawford, Ezell Ford, Tanisha Anderson, Akai Gurley, Tamir Rice, Rumain Brisbon, Eddie Grey alive. Go ahead. I'll wait. Show me a middle ground that doesn't put the burden on all those unarmed minorities. Go ahead. I'll wait. Show me a middle ground that doesn't by default fellate law enforcement and holds them to the highest professional standard especially when it comes to the use of deadly force. Go ahead. I'll wait. Show me a middle ground where the presumption of guilt isn't ALWAYS on the person with dark skin and African features. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Again and again and again. There are no sides! There actually isn't a whole collective of guys wearing white shirts who are good upstanding people, and the other collective of guys wearing black who want to murder everything. There are a hundred different arguments supported by a lots of different groups of people. Some of them are beautiful calls of unity, some of them are self-righteous calls for "justice" (guess what, both liberals and conservatives have their own versions of this group), and some of absolute gutter trash.

Just because you have your argument, shouldn't lump everyone else in the other "absolute gutter trash" camp. Just because we have a garbage, reprehensible republican president doesn't mean that everyone who supported him is a bad guy. Are some of them misguided? Absolutely. Some of them have been absolutely lied to. They believe a lie told to them by a master liar!

If good moderates like you were outraged over police killing unarmed people as much as you are about this the problem would be solved. You can find your middle ground by looking in a mirror.

But guess how any of these problems are going to get solved? By the two sides actually swallowing their pride and talking. We are all so caught up in our righteousness that we refuse to talk to each other.

Black people have been trying to talk for hundreds of years. Don't give me that bullshit. You want middle ground. Tell folks getting outraged by Kaep to sit down and have a conference. We would in a heartbeat. Conservatives and Republicans would scoff at the notion of police reform and you know it. The police union would explode. Anyone that disagrees hates America.

You can call me naive for believing that most problems can be solved by actually having a conversation and talking out issues. You go ahead and live your bubble, surrounded by people who will echo chamber your position and you all can pat yourself on the back about how great you are, and how abhorrent the other side is. There are plenty of people on the other side doing the exact same thing and neither one of you are going to actually contribute anything. All of you have an addiction, and that addiction is outrage.

Sorry but you're the real problem. You equate both sides. One side is saying "Stop killing us". What's the other side saying?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

They are ignorant because they have never had the exposure to the issue. They didn't have that person in their life that connected them to the issue. Many of these people don't actually know a single black person who could humanize the issue. They are ignorant and they exist in a world where people fight to keep them ignorant or outright manipulate them.

Everyone of us has issues that are blind spots to us. Each of us is ignorant to something. Why am I not more outraged by DACA? Because I don't know anyone impacted by that. People only deeply care about issues when they have a personal connection to them. I'm not saying that I support what is happening with DACA, I have empathy but I'm not going to march on Capitol Hill or anything.

Okay this is straight bullshit.

It is impossible to be ignorant of the injustices in this country. It's all over the fucking news.

 

[boiled goose]

Ok. What's your solution to this:

The problem is you care MORE about people kneeling for the flag than you do about the dead people that they're kneeling about. Your priorities are shit.




No one lost any ability to see nuance. You're just overreacting to criticisms of republicans and conservatives. What's what? It's not nice having people assume you're a piece of shit? Fucking tell me about it....




Name some middle grounds that would have kept Oscar Grant, Dontre Hamilton, Eric Garner, John Crawford, Ezell Ford, Tanisha Anderson, Akai Gurley, Tamir Rice, Rumain Brisbon, Eddie Grey alive. Go ahead. I'll wait. Show me a middle ground that doesn't put the burden on all those unarmed minorities. Go ahead. I'll wait. Show me a middle ground that doesn't by default fellate law enforcement and holds them to the highest professional standard especially when it comes to the use of deadly force. Go ahead. I'll wait. Show me a middle ground where the presumption of guilt isn't ALWAYS on the person with dark skin and African features. Go ahead, I'll wait.






If good moderates like you were outraged over police killing unarmed people as much as you are about this the problem would be solved. You can find your middle ground by looking in a mirror.



Black people have been trying to talk for hundreds of years. Don't give me that bullshit. You want middle ground. Tell folks getting outraged by Kaep to sit down and have a conference. We would in a heartbeat. Conservatives and Republicans would scoff at the notion of police reform and you know it. The police union would explode. Anyone that disagrees hates America.



Sorry but you're the real problem. You equate both sides. One side is saying "Stop killing us". What's the other side saying?

This.

One side wants to "win" regarding equality and unjust murder.

What's winning for the other side?

 

[Con_Smith]

Not saying it will happen, but to resolve this, he should. Overall this is what I think of the whole situation of the protest for the national Anthem.

I am ok with Kaep and other players kneeling, locking arms, sitting, protesting, etc.
I am ok with people being upset about the kneeling.
I am ok with people not being upset about the kneeling.
I am not ok with Trump calling people names.

How ok are you with Black lives being disposable and nobody giving a fuck in this country?

 

[cdyhybrid]

Bolded for emphasis. That's sort of my point. What is being done now is not working. This current plan is merely spinning our wheels while we pat ourselves on the back for how moral we are. It ain't stopping people from getting shot. So at this point I'm willing to start taking other suggestions on what the heck to do. As for awareness - there are a lot of people in this country who don't follow sports, and anecdotally they tend to swing liberal more than not. My thought process is that it allies the anti-Trump liberal wing (aka the Resistance) closer and puts it on the forefront of their activities by making it more of a story outside sports. Could be wrong - but at least out here (in Seattle) all non Seahawks fans aren't paying that much attention to it.

Also, if the last 10 months have been any indication, give it a month and this will drop off the radar (or wait till the NFL season is over). I mean, we're talking about nuclear war and national health care as it is.



Sadly, knowing Trump and how easily he has his mind changed - he could actually end up agreeing with Kaepernick and tweet something (before getting his mind changed again).
C


OK, what about the black Green Beret he specifically quotes (and prints his letter in full) as being upset by Kaep sitting? Or does he not count?

You want a suggestion on what to do? Win elections and enact policy that will hold police departments accountable for their actions. That's the solution.

That's the only solution.

You're not going to win over the hearts and minds of conservative America. If that were possible, it would have happened already. The police must be legally compelled to enforce the law in a fair manner.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I'd have told a someone to shove the flag up his arse if he's catching feelings because I sat during some trite anthem. Guess Kaepernick is better than me. Other than that the letter reads like a bunch of both sides BS that makes me lose respect for the author.

 

[AColdDay]

This is one those situations where anyone who voted for Donald Trump they actively supported someone is without a doubt racist and who filled his cabinet with literally racists, white supremacists, and actual nazi's. Also it should not have been a shock since Trump ran the most racist campaign since before the civil rights movement started and probably since jim crow laws were still a thing.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/602/the-sun-comes-up?act=1#play

The very first thing on this episode of "This American Life" that was done right after the election is an interview with two Latino police officers who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

Do you honestly think that these two guys are racist? Why don't you actually listen to what they have to say before you blanket everyone as complicit in a racist agenda.

 

[Slayven]

A) Trump wasn't president when Boyer and Kaep talked.

B) It's hard for me to believe that the guy who spent a year in Sudan during the Darfur crisis, 6 years in Iraq and Afghanistan as Special Forces, aka trainers and liasions between the US military and the local populace, and actually talked to Kaep himself about the protest and what it means to Kaep is the one who is going to not "understand" the forces at play.

C) In the letter he wrote, he received correspondence from fellow Green Berets and added them:



D) Kaep's goal is to bring attention to the matter and spark change and conversation. Forcing a meeting with the president is about as high profile as you can get in doing so. Hell; that was BLM's strategy during the Democratic primary. Force conversations with Sanders and Clinton. Even if they blew off BLM, it raises the national profile of the group.

I guess here's the part I am not understanding - why would Kaep meeting with the President be a compromise on Kaep's part? That's a freaking win condition for any activist. Assuming Trump is a giant asshat who blows him off / etc etc, then you can put him on blast for disingenuously meeting with you. All a meeting with Trump does is make this issue even more high profile and high visibility than it currently is. Which gets activists re-energized and ready to fight if Trump blows him off (which we will assume he does). There is zero negative change to the status quo for Kaepernick to try to meet with Trump.

EDIT:

As an activist, having a high profile meeting with POTUS is precisely the thing I would want. He's trying to help Kaep out and get his message out even further. He never says anything about stopping the protests or what the outcome of the meeting should be, and that's fairly deliberate.

Trump is trump

The last 10 months

That we overgeneralize the other side in order to be "right". We are more concerned with being "right" than finding solutions.

Looking at the other people who are quoting my post only confirms my belief. Not everyone who voted Republican is a white supremacist and not everyone who feels that kneeling for the flag is disrespectful is a racist.

See:



There isn't a "this side" or a "that side", there are a whole spectrum of sides. How have we lost the ability to see any nuance in these arguments.



The middle ground being bullshit means that there are one of two options available, the "right" option and the "wrong" option. There are a million options, and yes many of them are actually in the middle. and we aren't going to find any of them by labeling all Democrats as abortion-loving welfare addicts or Republicans as racist gun-loving bigots.




Again and again and again. There are no sides! There actually isn't a whole collective of guys wearing white shirts who are good upstanding people, and the other collective of guys wearing black who want to murder everything. There are a hundred different arguments supported by a lots of different groups of people. Some of them are beautiful calls of unity, some of them are self-righteous calls for "justice" (guess what, both liberals and conservatives have their own versions of this group), and some of absolute gutter trash.

Just because you have your argument, shouldn't lump everyone else in the other "absolute gutter trash" camp. Just because we have a garbage, reprehensible republican president doesn't mean that everyone who supported him is a bad guy. Are some of them misguided? Absolutely. Some of them have been absolutely lied to. They believe a lie told to them by a master liar!

But guess how any of these problems are going to get solved? By the two sides actually swallowing their pride and talking. We are all so caught up in our righteousness that we refuse to talk to each other.

You can call me naive for believing that most problems can be solved by actually having a conversation and talking out issues. You go ahead and live your bubble, surrounded by people who will echo chamber your position and you all can pat yourself on the back about how great you are, and how abhorrent the other side is. There are plenty of people on the other side doing the exact same thing and neither one of you are going to actually contribute anything. All of you have an addiction, and that addiction is outrage.

You didn't answer my question. What is the protest about.

You vote gop, you are at least ok with racism

 

[____]

Also, how weird is it that he's essentially saying he met with 5 combat arms and special ops vets, and they all agree that this entire issue of police brutality against people of color, this countries continued tradition of racial inequalities, protests against injustice, the flag, the anthem, respect for the military and lololol NFL ratings should rest on a discussion between:

BLACKLISTED NFL QUARTERBACK v. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

Seriously?

 

[Mesoian]

That we overgeneralize the other side in order to be "right". We are more concerned with being "right" than finding solutions.

Looking at the other people who are quoting my post only confirms my belief. Not everyone who voted Republican is a white supremacist and not everyone who feels that kneeling for the flag is disrespectful is a racist.

See:



There isn't a "this side" or a "that side", there are a whole spectrum of sides. How have we lost the ability to see any nuance in these arguments.



The middle ground being bullshit means that there are one of two options available, the "right" option and the "wrong" option. There are a million options, and yes many of them are actually in the middle. and we aren't going to find any of them by labeling all Democrats as abortion-loving welfare addicts or Republicans as racist gun-loving bigots.




Again and again and again. There are no sides! There actually isn't a whole collective of guys wearing white shirts who are good upstanding people, and the other collective of guys wearing black who want to murder everything. There are a hundred different arguments supported by a lots of different groups of people. Some of them are beautiful calls of unity, some of them are self-righteous calls for "justice" (guess what, both liberals and conservatives have their own versions of this group), and some of absolute gutter trash.

Just because you have your argument, shouldn't lump everyone else in the other "absolute gutter trash" camp. Just because we have a garbage, reprehensible republican president doesn't mean that everyone who supported him is a bad guy. Are some of them misguided? Absolutely. Some of them have been absolutely lied to. They believe a lie told to them by a master liar!

But guess how any of these problems are going to get solved? By the two sides actually swallowing their pride and talking. We are all so caught up in our righteousness that we refuse to talk to each other.

You can call me naive for believing that most problems can be solved by actually having a conversation and talking out issues. You go ahead and live your bubble, surrounded by people who will echo chamber your position and you all can pat yourself on the back about how great you are, and how abhorrent the other side is. There are plenty of people on the other side doing the exact same thing and neither one of you are going to actually contribute anything. All of you have an addiction, and that addiction is outrage.

Jesus fucking christ, you have not been paying attention.

The fucking president spoke at anti-gay seminar yesterday.

But there are no sides. It's all just people.

Come the fuck on.

 

[CoolestSpot]

What is the middle ground of "Police shouldn't murder people"?

I was about to ask this. I guess "the middle" people are fine compromising on is "Police shouldn't murder WHITE people". As long as they're in agreement with that, a lot of people are probably fine with how things are, even if they say otherwise.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You vote gop, you are at least ok with racism

Same motherfuckers outraged at Kaepernick are quiet as shit when unarmed Black people get murdered by the police. Amazing. Then when we speak up cause they won't it's "You're doing it wrong!" and "You're part of the problem dividing America".

Same motherfuckers in the 1960's would have castigated MLK as being an agitator.

 

[sflufan]

Do you honestly think that these two guys are racist?

Surely its not possible for Latino police officers to harbor racial prejudices against African-Americans? Perish the thought!

 

[Slayven]

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/602/the-sun-comes-up?act=1#play

The very first thing on this episode of "This American Life" that was done right after the election is an interview with two Latino police officers who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

Do you honestly think that these two guys are racist? Why don't you actually listen to what they have to say before you blanket everyone as complicit in a racist agenda.

Voting for Obama is not Magic Mirror from Yugioh

They voted for Obama and then voted for a guy that launched his campaign being racist to Mexicans.They are at the very least OK with racism, which is functionally the same as being racist.

 

[Barren Mind]

Well to be fair, one side is saying, "please stop killing us like cattle" while the other side is saying, "shut your mouth and stand for the flag." This is not a situation where both sides have valid arguments. One side is literally founded on the idea that black people are inferior to white people. They have changed the narrative to be about "country, the flag, and military" because they have no interest in having the real conversation. Quite simply, it's not an issue to them. In fact, the killing of unarmed black people is a non-issue to them and that standing for a flag is a lot more important than the lives of black Americans.

So yes, there is a clear wrong side in this. And history will show as much.

 

[AColdDay]

Okay this is straight bullshit.

It is impossible to be ignorant of the injustices in this country. It's all over the fucking news.

Have you seen the news? Look at Fox News, and think about what people would believe if that was the only way they consumed information. They aren't actively researching things like me and you. They don't know what snoops is, or listen to NPR. Of course they are ignorant!

 

[boiled goose]

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/602/the-sun-comes-up?act=1#play

The very first thing on this episode of "This American Life" that was done right after the election is an interview with two Latino police officers who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

Do you honestly think that these two guys are racist? Why don't you actually listen to what they have to say before you blanket everyone as complicit in a racist agenda.

Why wouldn't they be racist?

Are they still behind Trump?

If you think minorities can't be racist then you fundamentally don't understand racism.

Remember how the focus on racial injustice started? A kid called Trayvon... And a Latino.

 

[schwabdizzle]

How ok are you with Black lives being disposable and nobody giving a fuck in this country?

Police brutality is wrong period, my friend. There has been 37 unarmed killings this year thats way too high.

 

[Slayven]

Have you seen the news? Look at Fox News, and think about what people would believe if that was the only way they consumed information. They aren't actively researching things like me and you. They don't know what snoops is, or listen to NPR. Of course they are ignorant!

And why do they get a pass? Especially when that pass involves the oppression of minorities?

 

[Jeels]

I'm not sure why anyone would be impressed by this. These are really shallow words and there's no common ground with Nazis...There's a subset of America to have an actual sit down discussion with, but it's not the people booing athletes.

 

[mentallyinept]

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/602/the-sun-comes-up?act=1#play

The very first thing on this episode of "This American Life" that was done right after the election is an interview with two Latino police officers who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.

Do you honestly think that these two guys are racist? Why don't you actually listen to what they have to say before you blanket everyone as complicit in a racist agenda.

They are complicit in a racist agenda, even if they rationalized it as "Trump supports Cops vs. Hillary wants body-cams"

 

[NoblesseOblige]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)

Trying to heal the nation? The hell you on. This was prompt because some white guy's feelings getting hurt because a black person wasn't conforming to how he believed he should be behaving in respect to a piece of worthless cloth and some pointless anthem. If he had any interest at all in healing the nation his focus would be solely on the source of our dysfunction: racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc. If anything Mr. Beret is a contributor to the problem, not a remedy.