Well, in the second episode
several people got murdered for no real reason, including a child and teenage girl.
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Autumn Anime 2017 |OT| Makes us all rotten
- Thread starter BGBW
- Start date
I was honestly turned off by how cruel the show is to Children and it's barely ever conscious about it, perhaps accepting it as a way of life, which is why I took a break from it after episode 3 or 4. It didn't help that there was little we know to understand what Riko and Reg were going after partly due to out-right lack of information and partly due to not understanding the value of certain information we had (significance of Relics and the letter that asked Riko to visit being too strong for even Ozen to tear or how intense the deeper levels of the Abyss is).
One of the reasons I got back was how much the show was being discussed(twitter and here) and particularly Ozen - a strong female lead with an interesting design. I was not even keen on what happens at the lower levels of the Abyss or the world. Ozen pretty much made clear how cruel the world is, if not above, the bottom and also gave an idea about how significant the relics happen to be that made their seemingly fruitless struggle somewhat tolerable.
As to whether they really should have been children: I think it's a bit early to say given how the anime adapted only a part of the story, I really don't know how or what the manga builds up to. If I were to comment on the anime as its own thing, I'd like to believe that having Children intensifies the struggle and drama(whether it is brutality of the events or the constant sense of hostility) but then thinking about the more suggestive scenes makes me question that belief fundamentally regardless of it being a partial adaptation. In regard to the argument with Vladfellegar and NMDGG/Duckroll it's not about whether or not it bothers you at a subjective level anymore but whether such a thing was even necessary.
One of the reasons I got back was how much the show was being discussed(twitter and here) and particularly Ozen - a strong female lead with an interesting design. I was not even keen on what happens at the lower levels of the Abyss or the world. Ozen pretty much made clear how cruel the world is, if not above, the bottom and also gave an idea about how significant the relics happen to be that made their seemingly fruitless struggle somewhat tolerable.
As to whether they really should have been children: I think it's a bit early to say given how the anime adapted only a part of the story, I really don't know how or what the manga builds up to. If I were to comment on the anime as its own thing, I'd like to believe that having Children intensifies the struggle and drama(whether it is brutality of the events or the constant sense of hostility) but then thinking about the more suggestive scenes makes me question that belief fundamentally regardless of it being a partial adaptation. In regard to the argument with Vladfellegar and NMDGG/Duckroll it's not about whether or not it bothers you at a subjective level anymore but whether such a thing was even necessary.
Let's be clear about one aspect of Made in Abyss:
The author is absolutely a loli/shotacon. This is completely unambiguous when you read the manga. The main cast consisting primarily of children is absolutely not an accident, and it is indeed probably unnecessary for the story they want to tell.
That being said, the story's framing would be completely different if Riko were an experienced cave diver going in from the start, so I hesitate to say that it's entirely an unnecessary conceit. The author clearly wanted to show every aspect of the Abyss, including what happens when you ascend, and a more experienced cave diver taking unnecessary risks would be a more difficult pill to swallow.
Speaking of... yeah, I can understand folks who say Riko is annoyingly naive, and perhaps the author didn't need to make her as clumsy as she is. On the flip side, however, a big aspect of the main duo is that they contrast each other in full - Riko having encyclopedic knowledge of the Abyss but being physically frail to the point of helplessness, and Reg being an amnesiac with an incredibly durable body largely immune to the dangers of the Abyss. By the same token, Riko visibly lacks any sense of shame while Reg is easily flustered. Now, obviously these aspects can be clearly conveyed without resorting to the more unsavory bits the author resorted to (which, naturally, serve as clear and unambiguous signs of the author's preferences), I don't think there can be any argument to the contrary.
Still, what's done is done. It's easy for me to gloss over these eye-rolling segments when so much of the rest of the series is as well-executed as it is. Well, that, and I guess I'm kind of inured to it at this point? At least Kinema Citrus had the good sense to tone it down compared to the manga, and it definitely felt more in the background in comparison. (Seriously, the author is not trying at all to hide their preferences there.)
I think I could award the series my #1 spot for AotY without hesitation if those aspects were less present. As it is... it's still a pretty good contender in my eyes. It just does something that nothing else I've watched this year has really attempted. I have to give credit where credit is due.
The author is absolutely a loli/shotacon. This is completely unambiguous when you read the manga. The main cast consisting primarily of children is absolutely not an accident, and it is indeed probably unnecessary for the story they want to tell.
That being said, the story's framing would be completely different if Riko were an experienced cave diver going in from the start, so I hesitate to say that it's entirely an unnecessary conceit. The author clearly wanted to show every aspect of the Abyss, including what happens when you ascend, and a more experienced cave diver taking unnecessary risks would be a more difficult pill to swallow.
Speaking of... yeah, I can understand folks who say Riko is annoyingly naive, and perhaps the author didn't need to make her as clumsy as she is. On the flip side, however, a big aspect of the main duo is that they contrast each other in full - Riko having encyclopedic knowledge of the Abyss but being physically frail to the point of helplessness, and Reg being an amnesiac with an incredibly durable body largely immune to the dangers of the Abyss. By the same token, Riko visibly lacks any sense of shame while Reg is easily flustered. Now, obviously these aspects can be clearly conveyed without resorting to the more unsavory bits the author resorted to (which, naturally, serve as clear and unambiguous signs of the author's preferences), I don't think there can be any argument to the contrary.
Still, what's done is done. It's easy for me to gloss over these eye-rolling segments when so much of the rest of the series is as well-executed as it is. Well, that, and I guess I'm kind of inured to it at this point? At least Kinema Citrus had the good sense to tone it down compared to the manga, and it definitely felt more in the background in comparison. (Seriously, the author is not trying at all to hide their preferences there.)
I think I could award the series my #1 spot for AotY without hesitation if those aspects were less present. As it is... it's still a pretty good contender in my eyes. It just does something that nothing else I've watched this year has really attempted. I have to give credit where credit is due.
Today in In Too Deep...
Ah yes, the only way we can relate to true brutality and hostility is to see very young children suffer.
Didn't know the only options available in storytelling is putting someone who looks like a 6 year old in peril, or replacing the character with an experienced expert.
Ah yes, the only way we can relate to true brutality and hostility is to see very young children suffer.
Didn't know the only options available in storytelling is putting someone who looks like a 6 year old in peril, or replacing the character with an experienced expert.
Jex
Member
Maybe I wasn't clear but I don't mean to imply that each and every scene of nudity/partial nudity in any anime ever is suspect, just that the way the material is framed in Made in Abyss is. Key differences with Made in Abyss vs Ancient Magus Bride are obviously:
- Riko is a much younger protagonist
- The 'context' in which the first nudity in the show appears isn't some 'semi-relatable' thing like taking a bath, it's the show's weird naked-torture stuff.
I think that really sets the tone going forward...
Admiral Woofington
Member
It's not "relate" so much as you empathize with them/feel the pain keeping in mind the age of the person which at one level depicts the amount of tolerance one has for pain/suffering and yes, age is something I bear in mind subconsciously/consciously just like you do considering you aren't happy about an aspect of the show which is at least tangential to age
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
It's whether someone can acknowledge that the problematic stuff in Made in Abyss exists or not. How much it impacts your enjoyment of the show is an another matter entirely. By actually identifying those elements you can then better ignore or discard them, if the rest of the show is good enough to make it an overall worthwhile view.
It's when people don't even recognize any of that, that they've clearly become part of the crowd that people mean when talking about the 'normalization' of sexualization of minors.
Btw. since some people where mentioning voyeurism: I felt like that bath scene was made worse by Nanachi's almost lecherous remarks and observing of Riko and Reg. Started before that already with her seemingly being so keen about Reg 'kissing' Riko for CPR and even blushing at the thought or idea of that.
And you know, initially in episode 10 or the beginning of 11 I thought that, hey, I guess it can be partially explained with her characterization. However, after seeing her backstory in ep13 I don't even understand how she came to be like that. I mean she was a very shy girl without any friends. When she finally did get a close one, those 2 quickly went through nightmarish events and ever since Nanachi was then forced to take care of her now immortal and grotesque blob of a friend. Now, I'm not sure if we know just how much time passed since then, but basically none of that leads up to that lecherous personality she sometimes shows. Because of that she felt more like an author self-insert during the bath scene, knowing what that author is apparently into.
It's when people don't even recognize any of that, that they've clearly become part of the crowd that people mean when talking about the 'normalization' of sexualization of minors.
Btw. since some people where mentioning voyeurism: I felt like that bath scene was made worse by Nanachi's almost lecherous remarks and observing of Riko and Reg. Started before that already with her seemingly being so keen about Reg 'kissing' Riko for CPR and even blushing at the thought or idea of that.
And you know, initially in episode 10 or the beginning of 11 I thought that, hey, I guess it can be partially explained with her characterization. However, after seeing her backstory in ep13 I don't even understand how she came to be like that. I mean she was a very shy girl without any friends. When she finally did get a close one, those 2 quickly went through nightmarish events and ever since Nanachi was then forced to take care of her now immortal and grotesque blob of a friend. Now, I'm not sure if we know just how much time passed since then, but basically none of that leads up to that lecherous personality she sometimes shows. Because of that she felt more like an author self-insert during the bath scene, knowing what that author is apparently into.
TropicalFish
Member
Only two episodes in and I'm already in love with Land of the Lustrous.
It's not "relate" so much as you empathize with them/feel the pain keeping in mind the age of the person which at one level depicts the amount of tolerance one has for pain/suffering and yes, age is something I bear in mind subconsciously/consciously just like you do considering you aren't happy about an aspect of the show which is at least tangential to age
Sounding a whole lot like Mark "Edgelord" Millar's defense of how he casually uses rape as character development because "that's the worst thing a villain can do". It's not provocative in an artistic or meaningful way, just distasteful and shallow.
The JP cast is getting announced tonight.
Seems like Funimation got the rights for IV going by this timing.
Well, you can very clearly blame the original author for her apparent age. I'm certainly not going to defend their artistic choices in that regard. I was speaking more to her background with regards to when she actually sets off on her journey. Certainly, not that much (re: nothing at all) would have changed story-wise if she simply looked older.
it would make sense if funimation got the rights since they have the rights for the other seasons at this point.
beyond that Chris Patton has been doing work with funimation since shortly before the announcement of the series despite the fact that he has gone on record saying he would never want to work with funimation again unless it was to voice Sousuke sagura.
Kaname's voice actress will be easy to get since Luci Christain never stopped working with funimation (recently Ochako Uraraka in MHA and is Natsu for fairy tail)
Teletha Testarossa's voice actress Hilary Haag might be a bit harder to get, given that she is almost purely an adv/sentai voice actress.
Melissa Mao's Allison Keith is a similar situation.
Gauron might have to be recast in english though as Mike MacRae doesn't really seem to be doing anime dubs anymore. to be fair I can't find him doing much of anything anymore.
Well, I'd appreciate if you've a more constructive argument to make for my interpretation of the age violence relationship than simple snark in your previous post. I don't believe I'm entirely wrong about age, it is an indicator for physical pain tolerance to an extent and pain/suffering is a part of Made in Abyss - now if (physical)pain/suffering is necessary, that's a different debate, as in an implication that pain shouldn't necessarily be physical or not at all present.
Maybe there's better ways(with an older protagonist) and I do agree whole heartedly about age being a problem with the more suggestive scenes with Riko/Reg. When it comes to violence of MiA I don't see "not provocative in an artistic or meaningful way" as a satisfying counter argument, much less your previous post. I don't mind discourse and people calling me out if I'm wrong but at least be clear.
Gauron isn't in the anime anymore but they might have to get someone for the movies I suppose.
The bigger deal is that they have to recast Kalinin as Mike Kleinhenz died a few years back.
I'm talking about justification though, not interpretation. It's an accepted thing that children suffering is uncomfortable to watch. Just like rape is uncomfortable and a very bad thing. But when someone wants to tell a certain type of story, how they tell it says a lot about their intent. You can totally tell an worthwhile story about children who suffer and have profound meaning, even if it is uncomfortable. Or you can deliberately design your characters to look like very cutesy 6 year olds just to do creepy and distasteful things to them under the guise of subversion. One is something I would consider of artistic worth, the other would give me a poor impression of the material.
Made in Abyss is the latter, as are all Mark Millar works.
No lies there.
Someone that was older or like you said, at least looked older, while still being inexperienced would've been infinitely better here.
Also true. It annoyed me and my friends that someone so painfully weak and naive would dare to venture into such dangerous territory with virtually no way to protect myself, but I get why they did it, the contrast between her and Reg is admittedly an interesting one at times.
As for the bolded, again, no lies there.
Yup, the execution in both the anime and manga is what has kept me going. Can't even fade, it's a compelling series.
Now that I cannot do, due to said discomfort, to the point where I don't even want to recommend it to others. It's a shame, as it would've easily "won" my #1 spot otherwise.
Also Konosuba was hilarious af anyhow
MikeHattsu
Member
Line finally got to Shanranran today:
https://twitter.com/Line_XIII/status/921168437761708032
https://twitter.com/mikehattsu/status/921189835477458944
https://twitter.com/mikehattsu/status/921197116470435840
https://twitter.com/Theonik2006/status/921237261215088640
https://twitter.com/Theonik2006/status/921238191927152640
https://twitter.com/Line_XIII/status/921168437761708032
https://twitter.com/mikehattsu/status/921189835477458944
https://twitter.com/mikehattsu/status/921197116470435840
https://twitter.com/Theonik2006/status/921237261215088640
https://twitter.com/Theonik2006/status/921238191927152640
I guess I can see why you would consider it shallow but ideally, it would be nice to see another piece of work exemplified as a more interesting take on a similar story/arc for a better understanding. At this stage I can't immediately recall such shows in regard to physical pain.
To my knowledge of the length and breadth of storytelling techniques within the animation medium, I've found myself satisfied with age and designs being exploited for disturbing depiction of violence as viable and it is but not exactly elegant in light of this conversation. Of course that supposed "intention" doesn't exactly add up with the author's tendency to indulge in voyeuristic scenes which I pointed out in my original post.
I'm not being snarky, this is exactly what we're been suggesting in terms of being "in too deep". It's not an accusation of anything, rather pointing out that there are things which are considered normalized in anime/manga/jrpgs because of the narrow target audience who are mostly okay with it, but come off as pretty weird and/or tasteless in a broader view.
There's no question that Made in Abyss is a very well constructed show, but sometimes what it chooses to construct with the talent is well, questionable.
I see now, there's many details I've questioned over the years after reading multiple opinions about works I liked and yet many more I haven't given thought of.
Dedication Through Light
Member
If only. Wonder if it happened again would he do it with a friend this time.
PdotMichael
Banned
A teenager or young adult can also lack experience as a cave raider. Heck, an adult can too. I doubt all the people living in that town have descended into the abyss.
DarknessTear
Banned
Crunchyroll put Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu up today. It's a really funny series, I recommend it.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I learned a new slang word today.
Anyway, as far as simulcasts on Crunchyroll this season go I would recommend checking out Mr. Osomatsu and The Ancient Magus Bride, maybe Garo -Vanishing Line- or Recovery of an MMO Junkie.
DarknessTear
Banned
It's a 19th century computer.
Dedication Through Light
Member
I thought both shows have amazing concepts, but I have to wonder what is it with both the writers having some issue with wanting sexual acts to be involved in their plots, though I guess its more a jokey thing in Evil or Live, but in Ousama Game...I can easily think of 32 other type of orders that dont involve sexual acts that could make for thriller type plots.
Forgot about magus bride and Kino. Although, Kino hasn't really grabbed me yet. I think there's an episode out I've not yet watched, whereas I'm eager to see the newest magus bride as soon as it's available. I just went back to elegant yokai apartment life to try to fill the void. I think I'm at about episode 9 or 10. Convinced this kid is dead and we're just watching him live out his exploits in a Japanese person heaven.
Kekkai Sensen Season 1
What the fuck did I just watch???
This show is a fucking mess. The premise is easy to understand, but the history is ALL over the place. Like it's going at light speed all the fucking time. There's zero time for the viewer to digest the information they get... it's already the end of the episode.
It looks cool, at least.
I've seen that it's from the guy who made Trigun... Trigun was much better.
What the fuck did I just watch???
This show is a fucking mess. The premise is easy to understand, but the history is ALL over the place. Like it's going at light speed all the fucking time. There's zero time for the viewer to digest the information they get... it's already the end of the episode.
It looks cool, at least.
I've seen that it's from the guy who made Trigun... Trigun was much better.
I dunno, I never thought it was difficult to understand.
Some years ago a gate to another dimension opened, New York was destroyed and fused together with that dimension, creating Hellsalem's Lot, a city where humans and monsters live together and all kinds of whacky and crazy shit happens all the time.
Leonardo and Co. are constantly caught up in all that chaos and fight against bad monsters, the strongest of them being the Blood Breeds.
Leonardo has special eyes.
That's basically everything you need to know, the constant chaos is just something that exists but doesn't need to be thought about too deeply
SliceSabre
Banned
Evil or Live 02
Holy shit I was fucking joking when I posted this I wasn't sure it'd actually happen. Hell they even implied one of the students banged one of the instructors.
PdotMichael
Banned
The incoming winter season looks like the strongest season for a long time.
What a time to be alive.
What a time to be alive.
2018 might be the strongest year in the past decade or so.
SliceSabre
Banned
Guys you're doing this wrong, the next season is always supposed to be shit. Ya'll been watching long enough to know better than to be positive about anything.
Fate/Extra will be show of the season btw. Umu~
Fate/Extra will be show of the season btw. Umu~
What are the top shows for next season? I see the second season for Overlord and Nanatsu no Taizai, but other than that I don't see anything that I recognize.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Violet Evergarden
Darling in the FranXX
Fate/Extra
Grancrest Senki
Pop Team Epic
Cardcaptor Sakura
Not to mention shows with possibility such as:
Hakumei to Mikochi
Koi wa Ameagari
Kokkoku
Beatless(being hopeful)
Theres also the Narag bait as well with Killing Bites.
Thats why I said might be. Half of these shows will probably tank but its still an exceptionally great season.
What if they are thinking about bomb ass omelettes?