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The state of NeoGAF

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dolabla

Member
One of the biggest forums a joke in the industry? You guys sure a hell know how to spout bullshit.

I was more laughing about their new forum which is probably gonna 1000x worse as a far left echo chamber than GAF became. I've never been personally banned, but I've seen many posters on here before get banned for just simply sharing the wrong political belief. Many of the mods were bad at their jobs.
 

-BLITZ-

Member
Great to see that everything is okay and back to normal. I'm very grateful that Gaming Art OT is still part of the NeoGaf Community.
 

Mahadev

Member
Boy, I can't wait to join an even more regressive and closed off echo chamber with the former mods who turned this once great forum into a joke in the industry.


Couldn't describe it better myself. That place is gonna be a fucking nightmare.
 

Lindsay

Dot Hacked
Dunno what a discord is but if its not a plain ol' forums I can load up in my browser like I do all others, I prolly dun need to know lol.

For the sane people left here, keep an eye out the ResetEra site; a new gaf created from some of the old mods. It should be going up this week.
They sure didn't spend much time thinking on that name? Not ta be mean or anything but its very ehhhhhh. An since so many people were unhappy with the mods: hows having old mods there a selling point? Did they grab the good ones? Who were the goods? Who were the bad ones? I have almost zero experience with gaf mods x.x

OT despite its flaws made GAF what is GAF today, I suspect the community will move to another place and I’m saddened by this reality :(
It won't move to any one place is the thing. Its gonna be scattered to the winds. I've been down this road before. Even if a buncha people end up going to the same place its still gonna be an incredibly downsized version of what the community once was and will stay that way.
 

Klocker

Member
Man, y'all with the "he fostered this toxic culture" need to reflect hard. The people who jumped ship weren't asking you anything any decent person wouldn't do: listen, have respect, and try not to be indecent. They asked that you don't disregard women's views in video games, politics, or any other part of society. They asked you don't upset when LGBT people asked you to use their preferred pronouns. They asked you to not shit on minorities brutalized or murdered by police officers because they may have smoked weed in college. They asked you to be reasonable and have empathy for everyone. They asked you to not listen to hate and / or spread it. They asked you to care a little bit about more than just yourselves. A lot of y'all couldn't do that. You hated being decent because you felt entitled to your status. You didn't want to be challenged or be told you were doing things wrong or bad.

Y'all didn't care. They weren't toxic, y'all were. But even now you won't care. Why would you? You never cared to begin with.

This.

That's why I stayed. this site was one of the few places (large places) left on the internet where you could expect people to act like civil human beings for fecks sake.

Those saying that "heavy handed moderation crushed my right to impose my bigoted views on others" have the rest of internet to vent that vile shit.

also last coupe of days realized waypoint is a very cool place as well, just small
 

vonStirlitz

Unconfirmed Member
[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]
 
Yeah right, and when I asked for people to not start a rethoric of "whypipo" and how they aren't allies because of their privilege in a thread about a white person being run over by a car while protesting for the rights of PoC and other minorities I got shit on by those so, so loving and understanding OT people. Give me a break.

The problem is most of these people have no fucking clue if others are doing something wrong or bad, they just assume they do because this is 2017, Trump has won and racists are everywhere. And because there were so many of you who shared the same viewpoint you felt like you were morally in the right even when talking shit. It was toxic as all hell at times.

It's funny when people say they got shit on in the OT for no reason. Did you really? Like, deep down did you think they were just being crazy and had zero reason to? Like, I was shit on but I realize what I said was offensive. I deserved it. I hated it for a bit but I moved on. I decided to just read those threads instead of trying to shitpost in them. After a while you realize a pattern of the same arguments and same shitposts. Arguments and shitposts that have been 100% debunked.

People who were dogged on in the OP knew they were wrong because they would tell you were wrong. They wouldn't even get angry. They'd just say, "read a bit more on the subject" or actually tell you the truth. But y'all didn't care. You got bit and decided to hide somewhere and be quiet. You waited. You were angry not because you bit by them, but due to being wrong and your ego and pride could not handle it. Y'all wanted to be hot shits and drop in with truthbombs and leave but your pride couldn't handle a response articulating why you were wrong so you kept going. Now you're at a point where those people are moving on. They're off making their own community without you. Guess what? You're still angry at them for proving you wrong and that's why you're saying it was their fault.

Even still this will fall on deaf ears. Y'all only care about getting back at people rather than discussing no matter how many times you claim it's about the discussion. No one's buying it.
 
I don't get the failing part tbh. The context of why and how someone is let go off the job is kinda important here and I already said he didn't get destroyed in any shape or form so how do you come to the conclusion I think he should be destroyed?
I see the reading comprehension skills and discussion culture of OT lives on. All I said is that Musk comes off as an asshole, that's all.

That fact that you think the story about a secretary who worked for Elon Musk lost their job is important or newsworthy says it all. Sadly however you fail at grasping that.
 

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
It sure doesn't go with some irony what is happening right now considering THIS very community behavior was tolerated and apparently even encouraged for years here. That GAF is now going down (or least taking a heavy blow from it) is like the very definition of irony.

I was never one for jumping to conclusions and wish EviLore the best here (yes, I do believe in the old phrase "innocent until proven guilty"). I hope he takes this as an opportunity to reconsider how this forum is being moderated. I've seen way to many being banned for simple misunderstandings. I myself have been as well.

Just tone it down a bit man. GAF wasn't always like this. A couple of years back this forum was much, much, much more benign (while still being extremely strict compared to other places) and I'd really like it to return to being like this.
 

Toparaman

Banned
Glad I got to "see" some of my favorite Gaffers in our "hometown" one last time.

video games aren't even that good.

Like this lovable bastard. It's been swell lads. Well, sometimes.

Evilore, you always came off as a jerkoff. I don't know what you did or didn't do. But acting like an arrogant jackass for years isn't going to win you a whole lot of sympathizers. That attitude filtered down into the community you fostered, so I hope you're not surprised by how quickly you were turned on.

I hope ResetEra takes the good of GAF and discards the bad. Part of what drew me to GAF was that it was the first large gaming community that felt geared towards folks over the age of 18. I imagine the majority of Gaffers are now in our late 20s or older, so let's stop with the knives-out shit all the time. I hope ResetEra is chill as hell.

If anyone has a PM to the discord, I would love one too; I need to fuel my Odyssey hype with the classic crew, and I also want to attend the Reset Era midnight launch!

Me too!
 

Fercho

Member
Thanks, man. It's just heartbreaking to think GAF as I knew it might be gone. People who didn't like that GAF was too "liberal" have a million other places to go to for video games discussion, but what about me and others like me? Where do we go now? GAF was the only one of its kind. If it disappears we have pretty much no other community like it to turn to.

I feel the same way as you. I hope GAF goes back to normal soon.
 

Shadio

Member
To be 100% fair, most of y'all "oppressed" views were toxic, racist, misogynist, and always 100% shitposting because y'all hated discussions because your ego and pride couldn't stand being wrong so lashing out was the best option.

I don't think that's the case here.

I imagine the changes to OT and the fact that a whole new squad of moderators will need to be recruited just has people more willing to speak up about any issues they had with how the site was run. This may be the only chance they get to say something and have their criticisms actually taken on board without being immediately shut down before anybody relevant gets to see it.

It's no secret that almost everyone who knew about it rejoiced at the idea of NeoGAF going down, and while some people may have written off all that joy as coming from "worthless" or "evil" people, it's clear to me that it was much more than that and perhaps something that should be addressed.

The way I see it is that people weren't just using NeoGAF because they liked it, they were using it because as the largest gaming forum, it's useful. If speaking out about your dissatisfaction has you risk getting removed, you're inclined to keep your mouth shut and just live with it. However that doesn't mean you're happy or agree with it, and it just breeds resentment towards the site.

I don't think any of my views are harmful, but I know that some here would consider me one of the worst people in the world because I don't hate or condemn the right things enough, and from what I've seen that extended to at least some of the former moderators. Not that I'd really like to get involved in political discussion anyway, but by default it felt like I was being told to keep my mouth shut and not even try to question the people *I* thought were being toxic because they had all convinced themselves they were an infallible force of pure good with their position of power.
 
First of all I'm so glad GAF is back! I'm part of it for over five years now and GAF is part of me since then. There was no day without it, it's literally my one and only go to for everything gaming. Never cared for the off topic part and probably never will. There is just nothing on the internet which comes even remotely close to the awesome gaming board with all its great people and the awesome OTs they're creating.

I felt so empty when GAF disappeared realizing how tight I've integrated it into my everyday life. I just don't want to miss that.

All those militant SJWs throwing around heavy insults while begging for bans: get lost, no one will miss you here.

None of us has the right to judge over Tyler and the events surrounding him. Unless proven guilty by a court I can't see any issues. He didn't raped her ffs. He just joined her unwelcomed, got rejected and that's it. Who in earth and hell hasn't experienced similar situations?! It was just a false assumption while they were drunk and she slept with him anyways a few months after. WTF?!

All you self-righteous, self-proclaimed saints fuck off and start cleaning beginning at your own houses doormat. Just think a moment about some girl / guy accuses you more or less out of nowhere publicly and people start crucify you for just that. You guys are bonkers, that's anarchy.

If a trial decides Tyler is guilty I'll be one of the first to jump this ship, but unless this won't happen I just laugh about you guys and I'm happy the GAF community is cleaning itself.

Believe. Not only women, but men as well. Believe in truth and justice.

And now I'll finish my coffee and hop right back into my most beloved gaming discussions <3

Yeah if politics are out, and if guys like these are the ones staying, count me out as well.

You don't have to be a detective to see a pattern with EL, "many small brooks make a strong river". The constant denials, the lies surrounding the situation with Amirox, the lack of transparency, and now the sexual allegations.

He might not have raped anyone per se, but he sure as hell doesn't come off as a valuable owner, a trustworthy or nice guy. It all adds up, and the woman has all the right in the world to feel as bad as she does.

Consider this my request to be banned.

I'll see you in the Discord.
 

Tobe

Member
so no discord? shit i really need an explanation to all this. was OT really that toxic?

and someone said in a thread before the closing, that gaf is the community not the creator?
 

Phased

Member
Is there an actual GAF discord? If there's invites going out I'd like one if possible. Not the new Discord for that new place, but one for GAF specifically?
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Great post, I echo the sentiments. The proposed solution here is basically, "We're upon rocky seas and I'm hearing a lot of dissent, so what we're gonna do is cut the boat in half. My expert leadership should definitely get MY half through."

Don't really see a way forward for GAF with this kind of self-important, head-in-the-sand philosophy at the helm.

I desperately hope a community pops up that can recapture GAF's activity and its best aspects, but given the overarching tenor of videogame fandom on the internet at this point, I'm not particularly optimistic.
 
I don't think any of my views are harmful, but I know that some here would consider me one of the worst people in the world because I don't hate or condemn the right things enough, and from what I've seen that extended to at least some of the former moderators. Not that I'd really like to get involved in political discussion anyway, but by default it felt like I was being told to keep my mouth shut and not even try to question the people *I* thought were being toxic because they had all convinced themselves they were an infallible force of pure good with their position of power.

If you invite condemnation then you will get it. If you know not supporting something will make people dislike you then don't bring it up? All posts are voluntary.
 

Paltheos

Member
It's quite amazing how big of a fuckup this whole thing was on a PR level

Yeah. :(
I don't know everything that went on here, but the opening post here.. is not good. I can't say much more that hasn't already been said, but I'll echo that it should have been for and about the community foremost, at the very least.

And the reaction doesn't appear congruent with the impetus. Why shut down social and political discussion in OT? Why shut OT down completely at all? The problems that plague OT (and the forum in general) aren't so easily solved with a reset or a cap on discussion. And the forum and community are bigger than 'just games'. Maybe it's a decision based on logistics (not enough staff on-hand at the moment to build the type of environment he thinks is best)? But in that case he's not being honest with us. ... Which of course he doesn't necessarily need to bring up or discuss, but why put that all together into a single post where you're also discussing a personal matter?

When I stare really hard at that post, I think I'm seeing a man trying to be both the owner/operator of this website and himself (or a persona that represents himself personally), and this is... another mistake.
 

hyp3rlink

Member
What kind of a girl goes into a sexual relationship with the guy who sexually assaulted her?

Malka may or may not be scum but these allegations are complete BS!
 

Mau5

Member
Whatever else can be said about the situation, it's very clear that Evilore's ability to lead the website has been fatally compromised. There is no future scenario where we look back at this moment and say "I'm really glad Evilore stayed on." Relative to the alternatives, he is nothing but a liability.

If Evilore cares about the community he has built, he will resign immediately.

yup this needs to happen
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
is it me, or saying that someone grabbing someone's else ass in a bar, makes that individual a "well documented sexual predator", devalues what someone who actually suffered from sexual predator went through

Just you. Shit like this is a reason why millions of women don't come forward about sexual assault incidents they've experienced. They feel guilty and ashamed of feeling victimized and wanting to come out because their experiences and treatment doesn't reach the levels others have had to deal with. That's a huge reason casual sexism and harassment exist everywhere. And posts like yours only reinforce that by feeding into that idea that some harassment and assault doesn't matter and detracts from "real" assault.

It might be just one incident but Tyler's recounting and justification for his actions was beyond gross and predatory. By his own very detailed admission, though he didn't intend to, he revealed his predatory nature and belief that his actions towards women was not only acceptable but justified.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
They sure didn't spend much time thinking on that name? Not ta be mean or anything but its very ehhhhhh. An since so many people were unhappy with the mods: hows having old mods there a selling point? Did they grab the good ones? Who were the goods? Who were the bad ones? I have almost zero experience with gaf mods x.x

I know Reset Era sounds cool and all but it's like a knee jerk reaction to this situation. I'm more curious about the long term period over the "now" period.
 
Its like a virtual Night of the Long Knives with all these bans.

I liked the off topic threads, although I didn't read through them that often.I don't know why those were nuked as the neogaf implosion was not directly related to those threads.

I have experienced sexual harassment/assault. Its a horrible act and should never be tolerated or exonerated. It should be punished and not swept under the rug. But I have also had an experience where a friend of mine made false accusations against someone I barely knew. A group of friends and I were on our way to use violence against the accused, but luckily we thought better of it until more information was available. Later our friend admitted that the accusation was false and we found out they suffered from mental health problems. I don't want to jump to conclusions either way in this case.

On the other hand, Amirox's case is disgusting, but he is likely going to prison for some time and deservedly so.
 

Stillmatic

Member
I like to not jump to conclusions, and I rely on facts.

She could've been taken advantage of in a terrible way if true, and he could've to an even worse extent if these allegations aren't true.

Either situation something bad has happened.

See how it plays out, but I'll continue as normal.
 
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Glad GAF is back. Gonna miss Off-Topic for a while, mainly the relationship threads and the like, but so glad to have GAF back. Also, mods being anonymous seems like a really odd way forward, but I guess we'll see how everything unfolds over time. Definitely not gonna miss the political threads, though.
 
Whatever else can be said about the situation, it's very clear that Evilore's ability to lead the website has been fatally compromised. There is no future scenario where we look back at this moment and say "I'm really glad Evilore stayed on." Relative to the alternatives, he is nothing but a liability.

If Evilore cares about the community he has built, he will resign immediately.

lol, it's his business. I mean, I guess he could sell it to someone, but he's gonna have a tough time finding buyers after this.
 

daTRUballin

Member
No matter what happens from here on out, I just want to say I hope the community sticks together. Whether here or ResetEra or wherever else. It’s been a bunch of fun talking to lots of people here and sharing opinions about gaming and other things and reading about what people have to say. I wouldn’t want this community to fall apart completely. :(
 

Aizo

Banned
I feel bad for the mods dealing with all this bullshit. People should just sign out or request bans without making so much fuss.

I don’t really believe Tyler, but gaf isn’t about him to me. We’ll see how this goes. Without having off topic, I can’t imagine that I’d wanna be here too much. Just depends on where my communities end up, I guess.
 

Undead Unicorn

Neo Member
To be 100% fair, most of y'all "oppressed" views were toxic, racist, misogynist, and always 100% shitposting because y'all hated discussions because your ego and pride couldn't stand being wrong so lashing out was the best option.

It's a common excuse for drunks and drug addicts to blame their bad behavior and poor reputation on everyone else. The TOXIC racist misogynist users were banned at the drop of the hat, and the mods would drop the hat, because they dared say they voted for Sanders not Clinton, to politely disagreeing big breasts in an M rated video game meant automatic sexism, to dozens of other things.

Maybe one of the reasons Gaf developed a toxic rep all across the web was because you genuinely made out anyone had a strong disagreement about sex or cultural appropriation, or whatever it was that month that was trendy was tarred and feathered, and treated like Richard Spencer?

Maybe...the reason why even hates you is because you are the baddies?
 

pixelation

Member
People who can't get the Discord invite (limited servers), keep an eye out for ResetEra. Should be going up fairly soon. I hope GAF as i knew and loved comes back somehow though... a man can dream.
 

dolabla

Member
What kind of a girl goes into a sexual relationship with the guy who sexually assaulted her?

Malka may or may not be scum but these allegations are complete BS!

That's where there's a massive hole this woman's story. It literally makes zero sense.
 
What kind of a girl goes into a sexual relationship with the guy who sexually assaulted her?

Malka may or may not be scum but these allegations are complete BS!

The Vice picture I think paints a pretty realistic picture.

Girl says okay it was fucked up but I'll give malka a second chance. That short relationship ends and girl sees malka pursuing new girl in a rapey way. Girl says fuck you dude and she blocks him on social media.
 

Porcile

Member
I feel bad for the mods dealing with all this bullshit. People should just sign out or request bans without making so much fuss.

I don’t really believe Tyler, but gaf isn’t about him to me. We’ll see how this goes. Without having off topic, I can’t imagine that I’d wanna be here too much. Just depends on where my communities end up, I guess.

Where's Japan GAF at? I have no interest in Twitter at all.
 
I'm glad to see the people who I considered douches in our interactions continue to be douches by trying to spin the loss of OT as the loss of a cancerous growth.
 

Mac_Lane

Member
It's good to see GAF back. But awful to see OT gone...

It's a vital part of this board. And we should not avoid political discourse altogether. In fact, I don't see how this is related to the case of Evilore.

Efforts have to be made to make the board less dependent on its owner.
 
so no discord? shit i really need an explanation to all this. was OT really that toxic?

and someone said in a thread before the closing, that gaf is the community not the creator?
Not at all. And the fact that so many of the people complaining are in fact still around are the proof that that's being overstated. If it was so toxic, they wouldn't still be here to say that in the first place. And if someone wants to make the argument that it was anyway, that would still be EviLore's fault for letting it continue that way and just doing nothing for month, after month, after month, after month, until now for some reason. Makes no sense he didn't do anything until just now if that's how he truly felt. It's his site after all. But he did nothing. The whole thing is a complete strawman.

And indeed, GAF was about the community. But it's pretty hard to remain being about such if half the communities on the site were just nuked, without any warning or anything before hand. How can it possibly be? And what's to stop something like that from happening again, without any warning? How can we continue, with something like that hanging over our heads? That there's nothing stopping something like this from happening again in the future other than EviLore's own whims and considering his whims just had him blow up half the site, that's a bit of a problem. Perhaps it wasn't your communities that were affected this time. But that's kind of beside the point, as that does nothing, absolutely nothing, to protect them going into the future, the next time something like this happens. What's the point of trying to reform communities, when it could be those communities that get the boot the next time? Doesn't really make much sense.

That's where we're at right now. None of this makes any sense, or is acceptable in any way to me. It's completely broken, all the way through.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Boy, I can't wait to join an even more regressive and closed off echo chamber with the former mods who turned this once great forum into a joke in the industry.

I was more laughing about their new forum which is probably gonna 1000x worse as a far left echo chamber than GAF became. I've never been personally banned, but I've seen many posters on here before get banned for just simply sharing the wrong political belief. Many of the mods were bad at their jobs.
Far left? More like a forum fully ran by self loathing "progressive" neo liberal shills. Sounds like a real winner.
 
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