• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The GTA V source code was sold for $2000 to a modding community

Hudo

Member
And the PC community doesn't hold pirates accountable, so it reflects badly on them.
To be fair, it's not the "community's" job to suck the dicks of big-ass corporations. If T2 or another big-ass publisher is whining about piracy, it's almost always a pricing and service issue. For example, piracy is more rampant in countries where video games are ridiculously overpriced, like in Brazil. And in the "first-world countries", most games aren't even worth the $70 price point there, with all the microtransactions and DLC schemes aiming to get even more money out of the player and impacting game design. Let alone most games at that price points release in poor technical condition; game developers and publishers can't even get that shit right; or worse: don't care.

And those people who absolutely want to pirate because of some ideals were never lost sales; they weren't gonna buy the game anyway (there are multiple studies investigating this).
 
Last edited:

Monserrat

Banned
...And the PC community doesn't hold pirates accountable, so it reflects badly on them.

One pc community that holds pirates accountable would demonstrate the assertion false, there you go:

Multiplayer games are NOT SUPPORTED. Anti-cheats will ban you. Click on this link for information.

Pirated games are NOT SUPPORTED. They often crash and are against Nexus Mods site policy.

 

Braag

Member
[
Wonder if at this point Rockstar will even do a PC release for *ANY* of their upcoming games at this point. With all the bullshit they put up with, I wouldn't blame them at all to just say "fuck it, we're done supporting the PC". As thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best said, these aren't console players doing this shit. Their support for PC just seems to bring them nothing but problems, hacks, lawsuits, etc.
You're right. I think PC's overall should be banned. No PC's, no ransomware. It's getting ridiculous. Only peace loving consoles should remain. All offices should start replacing their work PCs for work Playstations immediately.
 

Portugeezer

Member
You can buy a high end NVIDIA GPU with that.

vince mcmahon wwe GIF
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
Let's look at what those individuals did, then:

1: Modding, likely with intent to sell the mods for profit.

Wrong. The modder in question was working on FiveM, a mod made freely available to the public, when Take-Two used thuggish tactics to intimidate him at his home.

Private/personal mods are one thing; the moment you start providing them publicly (especially selling them for money) without approval from the original creator gets you in legal trouble.

Does it now? That's interesting, I seem to have forgotten about all the times the developers and publishers of the Half-Life, Battlefield, Elder Scrolls, Total War, Darkest Dungeon, Witcher, Dark Souls, Mount & Blade, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or literally most of the other hundreds of other game franchises on PC decided to crack down on community mods. Oh, that's right, they didn't! In fact, many of them fostered the modding scene among their playbase by providing modding toolkits or featuring the work of modders in their community highlights.

Then why do R*/T2 have such a hostile attitude towards modders? Could it be that they hate the idea of modders providing more compelling content for free to the community than their own predatorily-priced microtransactions? No, surely that can't be it, for R*/T2 are definitely not greedy as all fuck.

2:....no, that's all there is to it.

Your corporate bootlicking defense is weak. Try a different tack.
 
Last edited:
Imagine being this ignorant of the console modding scene.

Significantly smaller than the PC modding scene, for obvious reasons. And most console mod work is derived from things on PC.

Wrong. The modder in question was working on FiveM, a mod made freely available to the public, when Take-Two used thuggish tactics to intimidate him at his home.

End of the day, free or not, they're still working with IP they don't have ownership of. It's their risk to do so and the owners of that IP have the right to enforce their ownership. You want to make something with that IP, get consent from the owners ahead of time.

Before I'd of been way more sympathetic to the modders but in light on stuff happening with AI and the such, I can see the issue among people with ownership and hard work poured into their properties, having them accessed and used freely without their consent by others in very public and/or commercial ways. It's unfair to the original creators and/or those who own the legal rights to those properties.

And, this is all stuff within a luxury market, an entertainment market. Like if you want to do this stuff, try making a mod that helps people with Parkinson's or bad vision. I can support that because usually the services and stuff people have to pay for that stuff is extremely costly and those may be things people need to live a better, more functional life.

Does it now? That's interesting, I seem to have forgotten about all the times the developers and publishers of the Half-Life, Battlefield, Elder Scrolls, Total War, Darkest Dungeon, Witcher, Dark Souls, Mount & Blade, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or literally most of the other hundreds of other game franchises on PC decided to crack down on community mods. Oh, that's right, they didn't! In fact, many of them fostered the modding scene among their playbase by providing modding toolkits or featuring the work of modders in their community highlights.

Well that's the choice of those companies, and I guess they were happy with what those modders were doing. In many cases they do that in order to eye prospective hires officially into the company, or work with those modders in a more official capacity. Which I can respect.

But just because some companies do that, doesn't mean others are obligated to. Take-Two doesn't seem like that type of company and that's a perfectly fine choice if that's how they feel. It doesn't make them more "evil" than companies that choose to work with modders.

Then why do R*/T2 have such a hostile attitude towards modders? Could it be that they hate the idea of modders providing more compelling content for free to the community than their own predatorily-priced microtransactions? No, surely that can't be it, for R*/T2 are definitely not greedy as all fuck.

Again, it's their IP, they're the owners. It's their choice. If you don't like it, fine, but they aren't obligated to bend over backwards and support modders because some people feel it's the "right thing to do". Modders aren't entitled rights to access a game; their freedoms with modding are at the mercy of whoever owns the rights to the content being modded.

Your corporate bootlicking defense is weak. Try a different tack.

It's not corporate bootlicking; it's being an adult and accepting the reality of the market. If someone makes something, sinks time & money into it, and gets their copyrights and trademarks for it, then they're able to enforce that ownership against anyone they feel infringes upon it.

If the person being targeted feels they're in the right, they can hire a lawyer and take the case to court. Just know the costs and time that will entail. If you want to freely mod games (either at no charge or for profit) and not worry about companies knocking at your door, you better make sure that game's a non-commercial product, has a license allowing that type of modding, or is so old that copyrights likely haven't been re-filed or the owners of the IP rights simply don't care anymore.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
It's not corporate bootlicking; it's being an adult and accepting the reality of the market. If someone makes something, sinks time & money into it, and gets their copyrights and trademarks for it, then they're able to enforce that ownership against anyone they feel infringes upon it.

The vast, vast majority of mods are free; are designed to function within or as part of the base game, not outside of or separate from it; and attribute credit where necessary. Invoking "copyright infringement" is a farce, a way for these corporations to disguise their irritation that the community can offer more compelling content for free than their own predatory microtransactions, a way to threaten mod creators - who usually work on these projects out of passion on the side, not for a living - with financial ruin because they can easily afford lawyers to keep up the lawsuit as long as necessary, no matter how spurious their case. You're willing to approve of mods that help gamers with Parkinson's, but aren't mods that offer quality of life improvements, bug fixes, improved graphics, additional content, or new ways to experience the game also commendable? Mods are overwhelmingly a positive force in this industry and a means by which consumers can better enjoy the products they paid for, so yes, arguing against them is indeed corporate bootlicking, no matter how much you try to dress it up in legalese.
 
The vast, vast majority of mods are free; are designed to function within or as part of the base game, not outside of or separate from it; and attribute credit where necessary. Invoking "copyright infringement" is a farce, a way for these corporations to disguise their irritation that the community can offer more compelling content for free than their own predatory microtransactions, a way to threaten mod creators - who usually work on these projects out of passion on the side, not for a living - with financial ruin because they can easily afford lawyers to keep up the lawsuit as long as necessary, no matter how spurious their case.

That's just the way the game is. Accept it. You don't have to like it; I'm not even saying I like it per se. But I can understand and accept the intent from both sides. Most others don't want to.

You're willing to approve of mods that help gamers with Parkinson's, but aren't mods that offer quality of life improvements, bug fixes, improved graphics, additional content, or new ways to experience the game also commendable? Mods are overwhelmingly a positive force in this industry and a means by which consumers can better enjoy the products they paid for, so yes, arguing against them is indeed corporate bootlicking, no matter how much you try to dress it up in legalese.

Mods that help with stuff like Parkinson's are a way to cut at a predatory big pharma industry that makes sensible treatment for many people unaffordable without going into some type of debt. The other mods you mention are luxuries for people who already knew what they were getting when they originally paid for the product that was advertised.

The company that holds the IP rights to that game isn't required to allow a customer to get additional content (free or paid) in the form of mods that were not specifically approved of by said owners of the IP rights. That's kind of how the laws for entertainment properties work, it's what allows them to be enforced. Without enforcement, the IP runs the risk of falling into public domain.

These are still usually IP that are commercially active, so yes modders always run that risk when they try adding unauthorized content to them. They know this. It's not the same thing as doing mods for super-old games that are no longer commercially active, or may not be easily purchasable by the average consumer, or where the IP is basically abandoned because the company (or companies) that owned the IP rights no longer exists. In THOSE cases, modders can have free reign and generally do whatever they want. They might even help bring attention back to that game, which is a good thing.

Even with IP commercially active, like I said there are cases where the IP owners may be more lenient with mods. You mentioned the Dark Souls modders and From Software being accepting of them. Well, that's in large part because the Souls games were in an "underground" growth period and the IP wasn't that big yet, especially on PC. From Software probably saw that modding scene as a sign of goodwill from the community and its enthusiasm for a niche, but growing, IP. That's why they welcomed them, but that could change in the future if the IP becomes even bigger thanks to games like Elden Ring. Or it may not; it could also be a cultural difference for them where they (or Kadokawa) are one of those Japanese gaming companies that are generally cool with it.

But the GTA mods are a much different story. GTA's arguably the most mainstream gaming IP in existence, it doesn't "need" a modding scene to help give it a spotlight or help it grow. It's already made it. So if Take-Two want to retain control over who's doing what with their IP, that's their right. Again, you don't have to like it. But you do have to accept that's the way things are.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
That's just the way the game is. Accept it. You don't have to like it; I'm not even saying I like it per se. But I can understand and accept the intent from both sides. Most others don't want to.

Oh, sure, I can understand their intent. Take-Two doesn't like that modders provide more value to the community for free than they themselves do with their predatory microtransactions. Thus they harass and threaten modders under the guise of "protecting the IP." If you genuinely believe that this is about ownership rights, that there is a genuine risk of GTA falling into the public domain because of some free mods, then you are being played for an absolute fool.

Mods that help with stuff like Parkinson's are a way to cut at a predatory big pharma industry that makes sensible treatment for many people unaffordable without going into some type of debt. The other mods you mention are luxuries for people who already knew what they were getting when they originally paid for the product that was advertised.

The company that holds the IP rights to that game isn't required to allow a customer to get additional content (free or paid) in the form of mods that were not specifically approved of by said owners of the IP rights. That's kind of how the laws for entertainment properties work, it's what allows them to be enforced. Without enforcement, the IP runs the risk of falling into public domain.

These are still usually IP that are commercially active, so yes modders always run that risk when they try adding unauthorized content to them. They know this. It's not the same thing as doing mods for super-old games that are no longer commercially active, or may not be easily purchasable by the average consumer, or where the IP is basically abandoned because the company (or companies) that owned the IP rights no longer exists. In THOSE cases, modders can have free reign and generally do whatever they want. They might even help bring attention back to that game, which is a good thing.

Even with IP commercially active, like I said there are cases where the IP owners may be more lenient with mods. You mentioned the Dark Souls modders and From Software being accepting of them. Well, that's in large part because the Souls games were in an "underground" growth period and the IP wasn't that big yet, especially on PC. From Software probably saw that modding scene as a sign of goodwill from the community and its enthusiasm for a niche, but growing, IP. That's why they welcomed them, but that could change in the future if the IP becomes even bigger thanks to games like Elden Ring. Or it may not; it could also be a cultural difference for them where they (or Kadokawa) are one of those Japanese gaming companies that are generally cool with it.

But the GTA mods are a much different story. GTA's arguably the most mainstream gaming IP in existence, it doesn't "need" a modding scene to help give it a spotlight or help it grow. It's already made it. So if Take-Two want to retain control over who's doing what with their IP, that's their right. Again, you don't have to like it. But you do have to accept that's the way things are.

This is what you've been doing throughout the entire discussion: viewing matters solely through the lens of corporate benefit. That's why it's called bootlicking. Why should, in your eyes, Take-Two's behavior be considered more acceptable just because they're incredibly successful? They're well within their rights to stamp out mods because they don't financially gain from them, fuck the community? Why run to the defense of big pharma corpo when they behave like thugs? Why not instead advocate for consumer protections? You understand that big business abuses the legal system constantly, right, that they're not your friends and don't have your interests at heart?
 
Realistically, what will people be able to do with the source code at this point?

I reckon a game like GTO is updated so frequently, it would be patched and ready for any potential vulnerabilities?

they can make native ports for linux and mac
make mods and new mechanics without any limitation as well as solve problems or make more easy development of custom campaigns, personal servers and lan party
create better modding tools for the original game
replace the entirety of assets, change code and release a "free game", the gta clones can get a huge overhaul using the expertise and techniques of this game available
 
Top Bottom