Not going to reply to my previous response to you, I see?
(Or anyone calling you out for the same thing.)
-
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Moderators: the new ban on social and political discourse
- Thread starter GarthVaderUK
- Start date
Not going to reply to my previous response to you, I see?
(Or anyone calling you out for the same thing.)
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
There is no hard line to distinguish between game discussion and political discussion. Of course game related political discussions are still a thing in future neogaf. And haters, racist, GamerGaters, will still be banned.
PipefishUK
Banned
Wait, did he get banned just for saying that?
Why are people still happy to be associated with a site run by, if not a sex offender, an obviously entitled prick and his bunch of yes men?
Clockwork
Member
And he is banned now. So what is your point?
Please re-read your post that I replied to if you forgot what the conversation was about.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
Because they think what Evilore did was right, and his victims were at fault. Misoginy, as simple as that.
Turns out the place was full of closet misoginists and racists.
NHarmonic.
Member
I mean we knew gaming side was like this, but never thought it was this much.
Clockwork
Member
So essentially it is definitely hyperbole and issues are still being properly addressed by the moderators?
What am I missing?
You are so full of it dude.
CornBurrito
Member
Wait, is science political?
Can we not discuss cool shit like the hyperloop?
Or can we only discuss the technology side of science, but not evolution or climatology?
Lol I take extreme exception to this nonsense.
It looks like he stopped replying after being called out.
pr0cs
Member
Makes sense. Otherwise the thread always devolves into politics rather than the topic at hand
CornBurrito
Member
So we can't discuss the hyperloop?
All science/technology can be politicized if you get down to it. Like who funds it. How it'll impact human relations. etc...
Two Pikachus
Member
It's important to have discussions about race, gender, representation, yes. We need to talk about all of it. But political discussion tends to monopolise the topic and people who want to talk about game mechanics, strategies, or history don't really get to. I'm not saying this happens in every topic, far from it, but derailings do happen. It would be nice to have a subforum for politics in gaming (or a subforum for apolitical gaming if you'd prefer).
pr0cs
Member
I haven't ever seen a hyperloop thread devolve into blm or Trump bullshit
PipefishUK
Banned
Wait? Isn't that what 'off topic' means?
You are in this thread, defending a GamerGate-themed game. But when people point out the facts to you, you stop talking.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252791508&postcount=249
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252791161&postcount=238
You got called out on your defense of a factually sexist video game and went silent after.
Two Pikachus
Member
Neither politics in gaming nor apolitical gaming are off-topic in a gaming forum. Off-topic is for things unrelated to gaming.
The fact that you're conflating BLM and Trump as "bullshit" means you either don't know what you're talking about or you have a hate-filled intent here.
But considering you're still refusing to reply to people who called you out on being happy that LGBTQ rights won't be discussed, I think it's pretty clear what is going on here.
CornBurrito
Member
I assure you if Trump got a proposal to fast track the hyperloop and said "no" every hyperloop thread would devolve into Trump.
Clockwork
Member
I really don't know how sexist the final product is. I think the game looked graphically captivating and the dystopian future angle seemed interesting enough.
CornBurrito
Member
The game looks gorgeous. I did kind of roll my eyes about the line of "in the future man defines themselves by what they consume, not what they make."
Mostly because that's already the case, and pretending like its the result of a dystopian future is dumb when it's a thing that exists right now.
Console-wars, "we're an Apple family', etc... people already define themselves by what they consume. And most jobs these days aren't even about making anything. Truck driver is the largest occupation in the US IIRC. They don't produce a product. They provide a service.
Is this just fucking cool here now?
Untrue. People can often post things that are benign and get slain for it. Sometimes some of the stuff l saw was just beyond the pale. Im not talking about thread details, but ones where people would say something different and then be ripped to shreds.
I am speaking from personal experience, but the one thing that always got me was that racism and sexism were rightly called out, but when someone did something wrong and was profiled in the media, te general response would be: l knew X would look like that. Scum/lowlife etc. Lots of fat shaming too.
Either it is or isnt OK to discriminate based on appearance. You cant say its bad to discriminate against BAME, but then say Hes a fat bastard, look at his chav clothes, his skinny face etc etc.
Thats inconsistency and it bred a culture of toxicity. Maybe people will think about that in future.
pr0cs
Member
And if it did then the thread should be locked and the offending douchebags banned
I hope all political crap stays as far away from this forum as possible
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Burying your head.
It doesn't matter because we already know the intent of the game is sexist and that the creator continued to support sexist causes after his apology.
Majukun
Member
the OT are coming back sooner or later..of coruse we have no idea if those same user will all come back or will migrate,or maybe stay on both forums.
Clockwork
Member
It matters to you. If that stuff isn't represented in the final product (ie what we will be paying for and actually playing) then I don't care. I know that not everyone I know is willing to disassociate the two. I am.
In any case I get the feeling the game is going to release and those that play it will wonder what the hoopla was all about. If there is some content reflective of those beliefs I believe it will be pretty damn obscure.
entremet
Member
I never thought the political talk was the issue. The issue was the lack of nuance in the political discussion. But it's not a NeoGAF thing. Politics in the FB age has become increasingly balkanized. I really don't know how the moderation could've done anything.
My big issue was the obsession with trying to "Out" people as bigots ad nauseam. Instead of letting the moderators do their job, there seemed to be an element of McCarthyism in the discussion.
Let me be clear, bigotry should not be tolerated. But these frustrations are not new and all this stuff coming out right now has been fomenting for years now.
This is why it's important to have a cool head. Who knows what happens in the future, but it's gonna be rocky for a bit. People who think this will become a GG board are rather myopic since the board just came up today. It's gonna be chaotic as former members leave and new ones come in.
My big issue was the obsession with trying to "Out" people as bigots ad nauseam. Instead of letting the moderators do their job, there seemed to be an element of McCarthyism in the discussion.
Let me be clear, bigotry should not be tolerated. But these frustrations are not new and all this stuff coming out right now has been fomenting for years now.
This is why it's important to have a cool head. Who knows what happens in the future, but it's gonna be rocky for a bit. People who think this will become a GG board are rather myopic since the board just came up today. It's gonna be chaotic as former members leave and new ones come in.
Clockwork
Member
I completely agree with the above.
members really showing their true colours now that the cat is out the bag, huh
this whole thing is a fucking shitshow. this new change to the offtopic doesnt even just affect political discussion and communities - the off topic shutdown has sunk larger apolitical communities (ptmyl rip) without any forewarning (not that the political threads had any warning either), unsure of whether there is any chance of a return under the vague new rules.
if the issue was the extent of donald trump threads (and all of the current politics that entails) then the issue wasn't offtopic but donald trump himself - thread creators were following the 'new news, new thread' rule and since this has been a tumultuous past year and a half (especially in america) there was naturally a constant outpouring of discussion surrounding it. if you didn't give a shit or were a trump supporter who got their feelings hurt by the criticisms towards his rhetoric and politics then you could have just not clicked onto such threads, or if you happened to be so upset by the mere sight of thread titles you could just run a script to hide them. there was still plenty of off topic discussions oustide of politics relating to these modern times - legendary threads about the sort of social awkwardness that only a gaf member could exhibit, discussions about news stories and communities to feel welcomed in (unless you were a dick with shitty views) - yet under these new rules all of that will be gone or at he very least heavily culled. i don't even think discussions on film and tv (something that i found myself following on this site more and more) will ever be the same simply due to the exodus of communities and members as well as the vague new rules. if your issue was that modern politics were 'infecting' other discussions then i can understand the frustration if a topic is derailed by unrelated politic discussion, but at the same time that doesn't mean that all politics can be removed from discussions about media. these new rules just give credence to the sort of people who spout this 'keep politics out of muh vidya games/movies/tv/comics' nonsense - even though media is inherently politicised. and funnily enough when some of these people are probed the issue wasn't actually that politics in general were being discussed, but that they disagreed with the specific politics that were.
anyway, i came to gaf for gaming side, and whilst i still browse for new gaming news stories and information ocassionally, i find myself more often on off topic, mostly hovering around film discussions and certain communities (with e3 and certain big gaming events being an exception). i wasn't even all that active in political threads and would only really skim over new donald trump stories, but i appreciated seeing the news stories and liked to use gaf as a sort of hub for new information about the situation in america. but in the end the fallout from this has effectively destroyed off topic for me and will no doubt have irreversibley fucked the whole site judging from the shite already being spewed in this thread alone. sad. ha.
this whole thing is a fucking shitshow. this new change to the offtopic doesnt even just affect political discussion and communities - the off topic shutdown has sunk larger apolitical communities (ptmyl rip) without any forewarning (not that the political threads had any warning either), unsure of whether there is any chance of a return under the vague new rules.
if the issue was the extent of donald trump threads (and all of the current politics that entails) then the issue wasn't offtopic but donald trump himself - thread creators were following the 'new news, new thread' rule and since this has been a tumultuous past year and a half (especially in america) there was naturally a constant outpouring of discussion surrounding it. if you didn't give a shit or were a trump supporter who got their feelings hurt by the criticisms towards his rhetoric and politics then you could have just not clicked onto such threads, or if you happened to be so upset by the mere sight of thread titles you could just run a script to hide them. there was still plenty of off topic discussions oustide of politics relating to these modern times - legendary threads about the sort of social awkwardness that only a gaf member could exhibit, discussions about news stories and communities to feel welcomed in (unless you were a dick with shitty views) - yet under these new rules all of that will be gone or at he very least heavily culled. i don't even think discussions on film and tv (something that i found myself following on this site more and more) will ever be the same simply due to the exodus of communities and members as well as the vague new rules. if your issue was that modern politics were 'infecting' other discussions then i can understand the frustration if a topic is derailed by unrelated politic discussion, but at the same time that doesn't mean that all politics can be removed from discussions about media. these new rules just give credence to the sort of people who spout this 'keep politics out of muh vidya games/movies/tv/comics' nonsense - even though media is inherently politicised. and funnily enough when some of these people are probed the issue wasn't actually that politics in general were being discussed, but that they disagreed with the specific politics that were.
anyway, i came to gaf for gaming side, and whilst i still browse for new gaming news stories and information ocassionally, i find myself more often on off topic, mostly hovering around film discussions and certain communities (with e3 and certain big gaming events being an exception). i wasn't even all that active in political threads and would only really skim over new donald trump stories, but i appreciated seeing the news stories and liked to use gaf as a sort of hub for new information about the situation in america. but in the end the fallout from this has effectively destroyed off topic for me and will no doubt have irreversibley fucked the whole site judging from the shite already being spewed in this thread alone. sad. ha.
Agreed. It will take a while for things to settle down with the "look at me" dramatic exit threads. Eventually, things will settle down into topical content, if at a slower pace than before. People who think the member base is going to suddenly materialize elsewhere are delusional.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Is there a thread where I can learn about this "refuge camp"? What is this about?
CornBurrito
Member
Eh. I disagree. Ignore the thread if you dislike it.
Resetera.com. It is supposed to go up later tonight. Here's the Twitter-account:
https://twitter.com/ReseteraForum
Ron Mexico
Member
It's probably hoping against hope, but I think there could still be something salvageable out of re-enabling political threads and the like.
Just one humble opinion, but the reason why I started ducking out of the political threads (in addition to the McCarthyism-esque behavior) was frankly the one line responses that made sifting through the thread to find actual things worth discussing more trouble than its worth.
For instance, "this tax plan is going to actually harm those who were in high property tax areas due to the change in itemized deductions..." is something I'd like to dig in and talk about with like-minded people. "Fuck off you orange cheeto", (which I still 100% agree with fwiw) just doesn't move the conversation forward whatsoever.
So if there's going to be changes, I at least hold out hope that among them, we have some discussions with more wheat than chaff.
Just one humble opinion, but the reason why I started ducking out of the political threads (in addition to the McCarthyism-esque behavior) was frankly the one line responses that made sifting through the thread to find actual things worth discussing more trouble than its worth.
For instance, "this tax plan is going to actually harm those who were in high property tax areas due to the change in itemized deductions..." is something I'd like to dig in and talk about with like-minded people. "Fuck off you orange cheeto", (which I still 100% agree with fwiw) just doesn't move the conversation forward whatsoever.
So if there's going to be changes, I at least hold out hope that among them, we have some discussions with more wheat than chaff.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
This is true of any big announcement thread though. Even in gaming side.
The first page is people jumping to get that "first post wins" title.
Second page is more reactionary and knee jerky posts.
Pages after are filled with more actual discussion.
Its not a political thread thing, it's a neogaf thread thing.
Folks need to mellow out for a few weeks. This kind of disruption tends to fade quickly if no one is persistently instigating it. I'm in the camp that felt this board was too extreme in squashing unflavored opinions but that is also what I liked about this place. The international viewpoint and the mostly youthful idealistic perspective is helpful to me, especially to understand how my young employees may think. The gaming stuff was just a bonus, especially when my own male perspective on gaming is challenged by how things are perceived by women. I've already changed how I plan on relating to my daughter (she is only 1, so i have time) based on the input from women here.
But the moderation was heavy handed, IMHO. I was banned once just for suggesting that Gillian Anderson was offered less pay for xfiles because Duchovney may have had more filming to do (I've not seen it yet so can't say if this is true) and Duchovney is more critical to xfiles anyway (the Mulder character is the one that believes this stuff, not Scully). This isn't sexist, it isn't propagating a pay gap or anything, it is just an opinion about the appeal of two CHARACTERS or the volume of work the actors may have.
I think opinions, even bigoted ones, shouldn't be censored, so long as the discussion is civil. How else will opinions change? Young folk especially lack experience and context, the only way for them to get it is to have exposure. Let them voice their opinion, have it be refuted, and then move on. Eventually they will develop more common interests with folks that otherwise they wouldn't associate with and voila, opinions change.
But for now a gaming focus will help calm folks down and remind us all of the one interest we all presumably have in common, a love of gaming.
But the moderation was heavy handed, IMHO. I was banned once just for suggesting that Gillian Anderson was offered less pay for xfiles because Duchovney may have had more filming to do (I've not seen it yet so can't say if this is true) and Duchovney is more critical to xfiles anyway (the Mulder character is the one that believes this stuff, not Scully). This isn't sexist, it isn't propagating a pay gap or anything, it is just an opinion about the appeal of two CHARACTERS or the volume of work the actors may have.
I think opinions, even bigoted ones, shouldn't be censored, so long as the discussion is civil. How else will opinions change? Young folk especially lack experience and context, the only way for them to get it is to have exposure. Let them voice their opinion, have it be refuted, and then move on. Eventually they will develop more common interests with folks that otherwise they wouldn't associate with and voila, opinions change.
But for now a gaming focus will help calm folks down and remind us all of the one interest we all presumably have in common, a love of gaming.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
More importantly it's an internet thing.
This has really hurt the community...it's not just about PoliGAF...NBAGAF, NYCGAF (or other cities), BlackGAF (or other races), LGBTGAF, AndroidGAF, Post your pics thread, funny pics thread, the daily threads of news on not just politics but entertainment, society, technology, etc etc, all these communities I cherished even if I didn't actively post in are gone all so...what? Discussion on GamerGate is minimized? Discussion on sexual assault or specific allegations is minimized? The policy is not even working AND its killing the community. I can't believe one of the few great places on the net is this now...
Par for the course for communities on the internet imploding, really.
My main internet home during CS1.x disappeared when owner's server died and he had no backup. FF11 forums on 2ch (ogame) was another home that eventually ceased to be due to bad decisions. Changes will be implemented, people will leave, and if we're lucky GAF will be home to a set of very different people.
Crossover of OT and gaming was what made GAF great for me, and it'll be interesting to see if that balance can remain intact.
Yeah I'm done with this place. I've been lurking since 2006, posting since 2010. I barely used gaming side anymore, but I've been checking OT for news, politics, technology, movie, TV, and music discussion daily for years. While I feel like discussions had been on a slow decline for the past couple years, I still hadn't found anywhere else I preferred for debating current events.
All of my favorite mods, from beseda to stump, have left, along with what seems to be a lot of my favorite users. I don't think there's anything here for me anymore. I've always hated Reddit layout and format, but I guess I'll try getting into that. It's definitely felt odd not checking the OT headlines the last few days. I'm not sure where I'll find a community with the aggregated news and discussion I've enjoyed and grown used to here. But fuck it. Everything dies eventually, time to move on
All of my favorite mods, from beseda to stump, have left, along with what seems to be a lot of my favorite users. I don't think there's anything here for me anymore. I've always hated Reddit layout and format, but I guess I'll try getting into that. It's definitely felt odd not checking the OT headlines the last few days. I'm not sure where I'll find a community with the aggregated news and discussion I've enjoyed and grown used to here. But fuck it. Everything dies eventually, time to move on
Pesmerga00
Member
Good post.
At times, it almost seemed like it was a contest to see who could cause the most bans.
schleprock
Banned
I believe her.
anothertech
Member
.