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[Blood Borne]

Whataboutism at its finest



I'll save you the trouble and show you what you're dealing with:

Nothing but disingenuous bullshit

BUT HIL;ALRLYY

Lol. You leftists and your manipulative words. Anything to silence or prevent people from speaking and showing the left's hypocrisy, double standards, contradiction and inconsistency.

Seems like "whataboutism" is the left's latest word. A word created with the sole purpose of preventing the left from looking into the mirror. I find it so pathetic. Using words like that shows that the person has no rebuttal.

 

[Blood Borne]

You've yet to offer any counter claims to my statement about how what lead to Trump's victory is not going to repeat.

It's quite difficult to disprove a prediction.

 

[Ethical Hedonism]

Lol. You leftists and your manipulative words. Anything to silence or prevent people from speaking and showing the left's hypocrisy, double standards, contradiction and inconsistency.

Seems like "whataboutism" is the left's latest word. A word created with the sole purpose of preventing the left from looking into the mirror. I find it so pathetic. Using words like that shows that the person has no rebuttal.

LOL i'll get some of all this irony that spilled from my monitor right now and put it in the fridge for later, thanks!

 

[BANGS]

You've yet to offer any counter claims to my statement about how what lead to Trump's victory is not going to repeat.

Irrelevant. I was just making the point that your exact type of thinking and extreme overconfidence was their downfall last year... but if you wish for me to try and tackle some of what you said...

He won't. He literally only one due to quirks in the countries electoral process that won't repeat themselves.

Pretty sure we'll still have the electoral college 3 years from now...

He only won the Republican primaries because...

Well he's the president now so he's already the Republican primary...

Then in the actual election it was low turn out and low enthusiasm due to a multitude of reasons involving Hillary Clinton. Even then he lost the popular vote and only barely won a handful of Electoral Collage votes to win."

What exactly is stopping history from repeating itself here? Really, the only thing that CAN stop it, is the democrats actually having a worthwhile candidate next time. Let's hope they learned their lesson snubbing Sanders(who easily would have beat Trump) and forcing in that hag that nobody liked...

Trump is wildly unpopular, only won through edge cases, and is only liked by Nazis and racists who aren't quite at Nazi level yet.

Again, exact same bullshit rhetoric that lead to a loss last year. You have not provided a single piece of evidence to imply that history won't repeat itself, other than the possibility of a better democratic candidate... and actually I brought that up lol

 

[David___]

Lol. You leftists and your manipulative words. Anything to silence or prevent people from speaking and showing the left's hypocrisy, double standards, contradiction and inconsistency.

Seems like "whataboutism" is the left's latest word. A word created with the sole purpose of preventing the left from looking into the mirror. I find it so pathetic. Using words like that shows that the person has no rebuttal.

Maybe you should stay on topic. The thread is about Trump, not Hillary.

 

[Naudi]

Lol. You leftists and your manipulative words. Anything to silence or prevent people from speaking and showing the left's hypocrisy, double standards, contradiction and inconsistency.

Seems like "whataboutism" is the left's latest word. A word created with the sole purpose of preventing the left from looking into the mirror. I find it so pathetic. Using words like that shows that the person has no rebuttal.

Ha! Man you are a riot.

 

[BANGS]

Lol. You leftists and your manipulative words. Anything to silence or prevent people from speaking and showing the left's hypocrisy, double standards, contradiction and inconsistency.

Seems like "whataboutism" is the left's latest word. A word created with the sole purpose of preventing the left from looking into the mirror. I find it so pathetic. Using words like that shows that the person has no rebuttal.

Hey, at least it replaced "false equivalency" as the most over used pseudo intellectual term of the left... I've actually seen leftists use "false equivalency!" and "trump is hitler!" in the same post...

But let's not pretend this is a problem exclusive to the left. Fanatics from all sides say equally stupid shit on a regular basis. Best not to lump yourself in with them...

 

[Naudi]

Hey, at least it replaced "false equivalency" as the most over used pseudo intellectual term of the left... I've actually seen leftists use "false equivalency!" and "trump is hitler!" in the same post...

But let's not pretend this is a problem exclusive to the left. Fanatics from all sides say equally stupid shit on a regular basis. Best not to lump yourself in with them...

Little late for that last part..

 

[Deleted member 12837]

The Russia thing is a huge nothingness, and all of our taxpayer dollars are being funded to uncover nothing. Imagine what 7 million dollars (so far) could have done for the homeless / inner city funding of programs you know...real issues.

...you realize that the money being spent isn't extra money, right? It's well within the DoJ budget given by Congress. Or did you think if the Mueller investigation weren't happening, these agents would just be sitting at home, twiddling their thumbs, unpaid? They'd just be investigating something different, and at the same cost. That money wouldn't just find its way to a social program, that's not how it works.

It's factually incorrect to say it's "uncovered nothing". They've also already indicted people and the investigation isn't slowing down. Have you not been following along?

Except this ultra sophisticated massive "hacking" that resulted in anything was just John Podesta being moronic enough to let his password get phished. It could have been pulled off by a teenager from his cellphone, it barely required any effort.

What exactly are you trying to argue here? It sure sounds a lot like goal posts moving around, and victim blaming. "It doesn't matter that Russia hacked us because anyone could've done it and Podesta is a moron".

It's also incorrect to claim the damage was limited to Podesta's email account. The DCCC and DNC networks and systems were completely compromised. Remote command execution, keyloggers, etc. All communications (chats, emails) could be monitored once they were in.

 

[David___]

Hey, at least it replaced "false equivalency" as the most over used pseudo intellectual term of the left... I've actually seen leftists use "false equivalency!" and "trump is hitler!" in the same post...

But let's not pretend this is a problem exclusive to the left. Fanatics from all sides say equally stupid shit on a regular basis. Best not to lump yourself in with them...

Tell me why I should actually try to respond when this was you:

You were expecting a well thought out political discussion on a video game internet forum? lol, has that ever happened, ever?

 

[BANGS]

What exactly are you trying to argue here? It sure sounds a lot like goal posts moving around, and victim blaming. "It doesn't matter that Russia hacked us because anyone could've done it and Podesta is a moron".

It's also incorrect to claim the damage was limited to Podesta's email account. The DCCC and DNC networks and systems were completely compromised. Remote command execution, keyloggers, etc. All communications (chats, emails) could be monitored once they were in.

Couldn't there be an argument made that Russia did us a great service by uncovering such disgusting corruption in the DNC? Between that and providing a safe haven for Edward Snowden, it seems Russia cares more about our liberty than our own government does...

 

[Ethical Hedonism]

Tell me why I should actually try to respond when this was you:

It's no use, they are only trying to sow discord and division while absolutely chosing not to address objectively any of the points made.
Find kinda sad that GAF devolved into this (astroturf territory), but no surprises either. If you look for it you'll find that most accounts doing this registered late 2017.

 

[David___]

Couldn't there be an argument made that Russia did us a great service by uncovering such disgusting corruption in the DNC? Between that and providing a safe haven for Edward Snowden, it seems Russia cares more about our liberty than our own government does...

In Edward Snowden, ”Russia has found the ultimate whataboutism mascot," the Atlantic's Olga Khazan wrote in 2013. ”By granting him asylum, Russia casts itself, even if momentarily, as a defender of human rights, and the U.S. as the oppressor."

Congrats, you fell for it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...5a3617c767b_story.html?utm_term=.3734328d7b65

It's no use, they are only trying to sow discord and division while absolutely chosing not to address objectively any of the points made.
Find kinda sad that GAF devolved into this (astroturf territory), but no surprises either. If you look for it you'll find that most accounts doing this registered late 2017.

Oh I know.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Ha! Man you are a riot.

So you literally proved his point that’s the funny thing

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Couldn't there be an argument made that Russia did us a great service by uncovering such disgusting corruption in the DNC? Between that and providing a safe haven for Edward Snowden, it seems Russia cares more about our liberty than our own government does...

Are you sure you want to advance the argument that the ends justify the means, here?

If you're asking for my personal opinion, then no, I think that's ridiculous.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, sure let's investigate the alleged DNC corruption and bring charges if/when necessary.

That doesn't let Russia off the hook all of a sudden, and definitely doesn't lead to a conclusion that we should be thanking them.

 

[BANGS]

Congrats, you fell for it

I said "it seems"... In order to fall for something, I would have to believe it. Either way, that article does nothing but try to discredit facts with rhetoric... for shame...

Also just a side note I've never seen someone so determined to not reply to me that they constantly reply to me... great job!

 

[Ethical Hedonism]

Oh I know.

 

[PataHikari]

It's quite difficult to disprove a prediction.

Not true. My prediction is based off current events and guessing what will happen if these trends continue. You can claim my prediction is wrong by showing evidence of different trends or that my reading of the trends is wrong.

Irrelevant. I was just making the point that your exact type of thinking and extreme overconfidence was their downfall last year...

No it wasn't. Trump won basically because of 25 years of smears and lies about Hillary Clinton making her much less popular then her competence while in office would imply. With the media happily pushing on a "Both sides are equally bad" narrative by focusing on the absurd non-stories of "but her emails" while Trump had some new awful thing revealed about him every week. This lead to depressed turn out on the Democratic Side and Trump's blatant racism and populist lies (Remember that he said he's raise taxes on the rich?) inspired turnout on the Republican side.

...
Pretty sure we'll still have the electoral college 3 years from now...

It won't help Trump this time.

First off, Trump's EC victory was already super narrow. He won by 56.88% of the EC vote. This is the 13th lowest margin of victory of any president.

Also the states that brought about his EC victory were barely won. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are generally considered the states that brought about Trump's victory and all three were won by super narrow margins. He won them by 0.2, 0.7 and 0.8 percent respectively.

There will be a Democratic Wave in 2018 and 2020. We've seen the special elections in previously secure Republican parts of the country become narrow victories or outright losses. And most majorly the massive slaughter of state level Republicans in Virginia and the impossible to predict victory of Doug Jones' Senate Campaign in Alabama. There's no reason to assume these trends won't continue as long as Trump is in office.

Those narrow victories won't happen next time.

...

Well he's the president now so he's already the Republican primary...

Technically not true. The primary will still happen and if somebody wants to they can challenge Trump in the primary.

Granted, no incumbent president has ever lost a primary. And I agree that it's very unlikely to happen even to Trump, but it's possible.

...
What exactly is stopping history from repeating itself here?

Because the environment is very different.

Like I said earlier, turn out is what drives elections. For a multitude of reasons Hillary Clinton was not inspiring. The media was all in on a Both Sides narrative, and the bulk of her campaign was pointing at Trump saying "He's going to terrible! Don't let him in!"

This does not actually prove to be very inspiring. On the other hand, "He is terrible! Kick him out!" has proven in the past to be quite a strong drive to turn out. Anger is a great source of electoral turn out. Trump inspired angry racists to go to the polls, and now Trump's been getting everybody else nice and angry.

And the Republicans in Congress has been helping with that anger, what all the wildly unpopular bills they've been writing up.

forcing in that hag that nobody liked...

Aww, and you were doing so well. But then you had to use some misogynistic rhetoric.

More people liked Hillary Clinton than Trump, remember that.

 

[rokkerkory]

WH is a well-oiled machine!! My how quickly they turn on each other.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/03/politics/president-donald-trump-steve-bannon/index.html

LOLLLLL

 

[David___]

It won't help Trump this time.

First off, Trump's EC victory was already super narrow. He won by 56.88% of the EC vote. This is the 13th lowest margin of victory of any president.

Also the states that brought about his EC victory were barely won. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin are generally considered the states that brought about Trump's victory and all three were won by super narrow margins. He won them by 0.2, 0.7 and 0.8 percent respectively.

There will be a Democratic Wave in 2018 and 2020. We've seen the special elections in previously secure Republican parts of the country become narrow victories or outright losses. And most majorly the massive slaughter of state level Republicans in Virginia and the impossible to predict victory of Doug Jones' Senate Campaign in Alabama. There's no reason to assume these trends won't continue as long as Trump is in office.

Those narrow victories won't happen next time.

You also have to take into consideration states like Florida might go solid blue with an influx of people from Puerto Rico who are active and who also lean Democrat. Add that to the fact that they won't forget what Trump did(or in this case didn't do) and Florida might very well stop being a swing state if they migrate accordingly.

 

[PataHikari]

You also have to take into consideration states like Florida might go solid blue with an influx of people from Puerto Rico who are active and who also lean Democrat. Add that to the fact that they won't forget what Trump did(or in this case didn't do) and Florida might very well stop being a swing state if they migrate accordingly.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the wave of Puerto Ricans who are moving to the mainland who will not ever forget which party screwed them over.

 

[Naudi]

So you literally proved his point that’s the funny thing

Yeah totally. Stupid leftist me fell for it again! Oh and hillary!

 

[dextran]

the economy has gone up for the last one hundred years so saying Obama was the cause of 2017 is as bad as giving Trump full credit.

Have your forgotten the financial crisis of 2008? That was thanks to Bush's 8 years in office and big bank deregulation.

 

[bomb]

Have your forgotten the financial crisis of 2008? That was thanks to Bush's 8 years in office and big bank deregulation.

Oh yeah. That 08 crash that dropped the market down to 1999 levels. It's over tripled since then. There are always dips. How much money did you lose that year and how much have you gained since? Hopefully you didn't pull your money out when Trump got elected.

Why would you even care about those 9 years of growth they lost going back to 1999? Those are Bush years. Surely it couldn't have been a crisis if we only lost the gains during that Republican Presidency.

 

[PataHikari]

Of course we all know this talk is meaningless because The Orb will consume all our souls to become part of the Trump Gestalt before elections come.

 

[Rival]

Have your forgotten the financial crisis of 2008? That was thanks to Bush's 8 years in office and big bank deregulation.

One of the great contributors to the financial crisis of 2008 was the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 signed into law by President Bill clinton in December 2000.

 

[rokkerkory]

One of the great contributors to the financial crisis of 2008 was the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 signed into law by President Bill clinton in December 2000.

Just to be fair here.

Who wrote and advocated for passage of both bills?

Texas Senator Phil Gramm, Chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs. He listened to lobbyists from energy company Enron. His wife, who had formerly held the post of Chairwoman of the Commodities Future Trading Commission, was an Enron board member. Enron was a major contributor to Senator Gramm’s campaigns.

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers also lobbied for the bill’s passage.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-caused-2008-global-financial-crisis-3306176

 

[Dienekes]

Just another reminder here... please try to stay on the thread topic and also be courteous of others. Several posts here have been borderline in this regard. 3rd party insults when grouping GAF members into said groups is frowned upon and consistently doing so will result in punitive action.

We would like to have a courteous and open environment for GAF members to discuss in earnest sensitive topics such as these and this method of insulting other members is not conducive to doing so.

Also, do not ask for ban's or try to facilitate them in any way. I can assure you the moderation team is capable of making those decisions and any discussion around this topic is not going to end well for those participating. We will be watching this thread more closely to assure all of our members can feel free to participate without having negative connotations being applied to them.

Thanks

 

[shpankey]

Question, when will the tax breaks of Trump actually take effect and can someone break it down, like...

Single 0-50k
Married with children 80-100k

...etc?

Also, didn’t Trump reduce the amount of tax brackets? That would seem to make things worse for middle class, no? Not sure I understand it all.

 

[Rival]

Just to be fair here.


https://www.thebalance.com/what-caused-2008-global-financial-crisis-3306176

Point being that blame for that can be attributed to a lot of decisions made from both sides. A lot of people just want to point To George W Bush’s policies as the sole reason for the financial collapse.

 

[shpankey]

Yeah, like mortgage company greed w/ variable interest rates that never stopped climbing (in some cases over 10%). So your 2.9 became 12.9 pricing you out of your home, despite perfect payments for years. Then blaming the people for the problem.

That bail out sickened me!

 

[GAFDooMsDaY]

(This isn't aimed at the Trump supporters who understand he hasn't had the best year , but to the ones who believe he can do no wrong) The Trump defense squad in here are hilarious

You try soooooo hard to defend, if nothing else, clearly the dumbest and least articulate President in history. And, it's almost cringeworthy watching you squirm to his support anytime he gets bad mouthed. It's like a full time job for you all except you don't get paid anything and it must actually be tiresome with the vast majority disapproving of him.

 

[norinrad]

He's been excellent with his trolling of everything and everyone.

8/10

Let's see if I can give him a 9 or a 10 next year.

 

[BANGS]

Trump won basically because of 25 years of smears and lies about Hillary Clinton making her much less popular then her competence while in office would imply. With the media happily pushing on a "Both sides are equally bad" narrative by focusing on the absurd non-stories of "but her emails" while Trump had some new awful thing revealed about him every week.

For a multitude of reasons Hillary Clinton was not inspiring. The media was all in on a Both Sides narrative, and the bulk of her campaign was pointing at Trump saying "He's going to terrible! Don't let him in!"

This does not actually prove to be very inspiring. On the other hand, "He is terrible! Kick him out!" has proven in the past to be quite a strong drive to turn out. Anger is a great source of electoral turn out. Trump inspired angry racists to go to the polls

I'm sorry but you just lose all credibility with this nonsense. Agree to disagree...

 

[Naudi]

I'm sorry but you just lose all credibility with this nonsense. Agree to disagree...

What part of his post is incorrect? Looks about right to me.

 

[gohepcat]

I'm sorry but you just lose all credibility with this nonsense. Agree to disagree...

The fact that she ran the most successful pediatric AIDS charity in history and that her budget proposal was the only one that was economically feasible put her over the top for most people I know. Remember, she won the popular vote by a very large margin. My town voted her 87%

You really should step back a little and realize your views are pretty fringe. Getting all of your info on a candidate through thrashy websites, Twitter, and YouTube is not going to give you an accurate picture.

 

[Pomerlaw]

WH is a well-oiled machine!! My how quickly they turn on each other.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/03/politics/president-donald-trump-steve-bannon/index.html

LOLLLLL

Now Breitbart wants to kick Bannon out.

 

[DarkestHour]

Looks like his "racism" and wanting to keep minorities down is failing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/black-unemployment-rate-falls-to-record-low.html

Unemployment among black workers is at its lowest since at least the early 1970s, when the government began tracking the data.

The black unemployment rate of 6.8 percent in December was the lowest since the Bureau of Labor Statistics started tracking it in 1972, a year in which the rate ranged from 11.2 percent and 9.4 percent. In the 45 years the data has been tracked, the unemployment rate for black or African American workers aged 16 years and older has never fallen below 7 percent.

 

[PataHikari]

What part of his post is incorrect? Looks about right to me.

Well I did fail to mention the Grim Pact he made with The Orb.

 

[rokkerkory]

Point being that blame for that can be attributed to a lot of decisions made from both sides. A lot of people just want to point To George W Bush’s policies as the sole reason for the financial collapse.

Point is that we just can't trust big businesses to govern themselves in a responsible way.

 

[prophetvx]

Lol. You leftists and your manipulative words. Anything to silence or prevent people from speaking and showing the left's hypocrisy, double standards, contradiction and inconsistency.

Seems like "whataboutism" is the left's latest word. A word created with the sole purpose of preventing the left from looking into the mirror. I find it so pathetic. Using words like that shows that the person has no rebuttal.

Whataboutism has a long history and is a common propaganda technique used extensively and made popular in Soviet-era Russia.

I'm not sure why Hillary's crimes or lack of crimes are relevant when talking about an elected president. It seems the more heat Trump gets, the more he likes to fall back on talking about his former political opponents. Why exactly do you feel the need to compare potential crimes between the two? Trump tells lies at an unprecedented rate for an elected official. That benchmark is pretty high. Meanwhile lashing out at the press and threatening any political adversaries with jail, that's pretty concerning when talking about a democratically elected official. That's how dictatorships start.

Regardless of whether you think he was a better candidate than others, the way he has conducted himself when threatened should concern everyone. This is a guy who has effectively made Fox News a state propaganda machine, discredited the media at every opportunity, thinks the justice department is an extension of his powers and threatened world leaders on twitter with the nuance of a toddler.

 

[BANGS]

Point is that we just can't trust big businesses to govern themselves in a responsible way.

We can't trust our government to do that, either...

 

[PataHikari]

We can't trust our government to do that, either...

Actually we can as long as we don't elect lunatics with the goal of dismantling government.

 

[rokkerkory]

We can't trust our government to do that, either...

Right but we cannot have zero big businesses or zero government right? So there has to be a level of compromise. Meet somewhere in the middle.

Both sides approaching this from either too much governance or little governance is not the way.

 

[bomb]

Actually we can as long as we don't elect lunatics with the goal of dismantling government.

It's extremely hard to get legislation passed. The system is set up that way on purpose. It's suppose to be hard so what you're saying would never happen. Trump is finding that out. Even with majority in the house and senate. It's called politics for a reason.

 

[PataHikari]

It's extremely hard to get legislation passed. The system is set up that way on purpose. It's suppose to be hard so what you're saying would never happen. Trump is finding that out. Even with majority in the house and senate. It's called politics for a reason.

It should not be hard for a single party controlling the Presidency and Congress. If the Republican Party had an agenda beyond "slash and burn everything you can't sell" then they'd be pumping out legislation left and right. As is they don't really have a coherent policy.

It's only "hard" because the Republican Party has gone insane and is trying to pass wildly unpopular bills for the purpose of funneling money into their benefactors pockets. This isn't helped by True Believers who want to tear everything down because after 8 years of being able to just scream "No!" at Obama they don't know how to do anything else.

 

[BANGS]

Right but we cannot have zero big businesses or zero government right?

We certainly can. The big businesses are far more influential than our government, and they pay our government to do their bidding. Government is completely useless so long as weak people are running it...

 

[bomb]

It should not be hard for a single party controlling the Presidency and Congress. If the Republican Party had an agenda beyond "slash and burn everything you can't sell" then they'd be pumping out legislation left and right. As is they don't really have a coherent policy.

It's only "hard" because the Republican Party has gone insane and is trying to pass wildly unpopular bills for the purpose of funneling money into their benefactors pockets. This isn't helped by True Believers who want to tear everything down because after 8 years of being able to just scream "No!" At Obama they don't know how to do anything else.

No. You're wrong. Look throughout history. Congress is suppose to move at a snail's pace because it only allows hopefully the best legislation to squeeze through. Every Senator has their own agenda. Everyone looks out for themselves, their state, and being reelected. Trump can come up with the best infrastructure plan and the Dems won't vote for it because it makes him look better and gives him better odds at 2020. It's all political.

 

[PataHikari]

No. You're wrong. Look throughout history. Congress is suppose to move at a snail's pace because it only allows hopefully the best legislation to squeeze through. Every Senator has their own agenda. Everyone looks out for themselves, their state, and being reelected. Trump can come up with the best infrastructure plan and the Dems won't vote for it because it makes him look better and gives him better odds at 2020. It's all political.

It doesn't matter if the Democrats don't vote for it the GOP has a majority in Congress.

The Republicans could easily get things done, right now. But they can't because what they wan't to get done is hugely unpopular and they need to try and slip it past people, or simply won't because they're part of the faction of the GOP that is against ever doing anything ever.

That's even discarding the fact that Trump will never come up with a good infrastructure plan.

 

[bomb]

It doesn't matter if the Democrats don't vote for it the GOP has a majority in Congress.

The Republicans could easily get things done, right now. But they can't or won't.

That's even discarding the fact that Trump will never come up with a good infrastructure plan.

Your logic is so basic. "They are Republician. They will vote anything Republican". Let me ask you this brain buster. Why wasn't Obamacare repealed? Hmmm. Maybe because some Senators have their own opinions and agendas. Do you think Alabama Doug Jones has the same political opinions that Bernie Sanders does because they both ran as Democratics?