thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
Forza 7 seems good, but I prefer the look of GTS overall.
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Digital Foundry: GT Sport vs Forza 7
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
AstroNut325
Member
I don't know about y'all but I find both just amazing. GT is my preferred choice but F7 is doing marvelous things!
Am I wrong in thinking Forza had been promoted as having dynamic time of day and weather? The 'dynamic' day change is a cheap gimmick compared to PCars2. No surprise on the GT side having its ambitions create double edged swords. Those reflections and dynamic shadows can both be impressive one moment and garish the next.
Overall image quality goes to Forza and modeling and lighting goes to GT.
Overall image quality goes to Forza and modeling and lighting goes to GT.
Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule
Member
Driveclub is still one level above these two.
immortald3ath
Member
TheAdmiester
Member
It's dynamic but fixed, i.e. the sun *could* move, everything is lit from the correct angles, but it's just a non-dynamic time of day.
Forza takes the cake just the amount of pixels being rendered is siginificamtly more demanding than 1800cb
If that's what you take from this video..
Wow.
Soon you can enjoy your Xbox One X with 4k and ultra textures
No the lighting and shadowing is real time. The bounce lighting or Global Illumination however, is baked...and why there's no time of day changes.
Forza has baked shadows and it has a limited time of day transition where the shadows don't change at all but because it's limited i.e. Dusk to night or Dawn to Morning...it is not as noticeable. Also because they avoid having long shadows on the track even if it means it's inaccurate as it'd look odd if it stayed there while the sun position changes. Donno if it has any GI solution, it probably doesn't because if it did then it wouldn't have any tod changes.
I'd like to see a Driveclub comparison on the car models vs F7 and GTS.
Patrick Young
Member
When the zoom in to the nuts on a wheel rim began, I knew I was in for a good one.
I'm happy with my selection of Forza. Forza Rewards have got me by the balls anyway.
I'm happy with my selection of Forza. Forza Rewards have got me by the balls anyway.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I think GTS wins this but Im still very impressed with what F7 is doing. You cant go wrong with either game to be honest.
Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule
Member
My bad, two levels
What's up with this? I saw this in the Giant Bomb video and in various other videos but...it does not work for me at all. How bizarre.Just noticed framerate priority mode in GTSport also implements motion blur for all camera angles except cockpit view. Looks really nice too.
gameplay shots no HUD
Doesn't Forza have some kind of motion blur in gameplay? Anyone have shots for comparisons?
TheAdmiester
Member
Is it possible that it's a setting that pops up once you're in framerate mode and isn't automatic?
immortald3ath
Member
okay i'll agree with that.
R_thanatos
Member
Driveclub does have better track detail , but driveclub lacks car detail and doesn't have 60 fps. it's the price of age. driveclub is a 3 year old game so the technology has improved and their focus were on complete different things. Also forza with it's 4K textures does perform better, not to mention the resolution both games ( Forza & GT ) are. Driveclub is left in the dust
All I did was change to framerate priority. You can't get this at all? I just took some more shots.
Are you not playing at 4K? I'm pretty sure this is only if you're using a 1080p output, it says in the pictures above that it's only available in 2K mode on the Pro.
From having played both(PS4 OG and high-end PC), GT Sport does look amazing and more natural than Forza 7, but Forza 7's crisp IQ and the fact it runs at 4K/60fps+ makes it look stunning in motion too.
Not to mention the rainy weather and skies in Forza 7 look amazing as well. They're both really impressive.
Not to mention the rainy weather and skies in Forza 7 look amazing as well. They're both really impressive.
Yep. I wonder how DC would do with a Pro patch. I feel it would be dramatic simply based on how much better recent games have been looking compared to earlier gen ones.
pop_tarts
Member
Does anyone not care are silly the reflection in the mirrors of Forza 7 looks where you can see your hands and the steering wheel? It bugs me every time because in real life your dashboard isn't the short to see your hands.
edit My connection is crappy or I would have added pictures to proof my point.
edit My connection is crappy or I would have added pictures to proof my point.
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MilkyJoe
Member
Compare the scope, resolution and frame rate?
deadscreensky
Member
I need to figure out how people are bringing photos into Forza. It looks incredible.
EDIT: It seems to be just long, long hours. Amazing.
EDIT: It seems to be just long, long hours. Amazing.
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rokkerkory
Member
GTS wins in the looks because of the lighting. Forza wins if you want real 4k.
True, but Driveclub does nail the feeling of driving in real world roads, not racing circuits, much better and the way motion blur works alongside a very smooth frame rate does not make me feel like the game is lacking... rain, snow, weather changing mid race, the sun rising above the horizon and melting the rain, and the volumetric clouds affecting the illumination of the entire level... so good.
I would like a PS4 Pro patch for some good ol’ downsampling as IQ could be better at times (a bit of aliasing that could be avoided).
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
They both have different looks, giving GTS a more “realistic” look I guess, maybe because of the way lighting is done.
However, Forza to me has sharper textures, looks crisper thanks to its resolution, that 4k HDR 60fps can’t be overlooked imo. Plus all the weather conditions and changing times of day makes this a looker on my Xbox One X.
I always really liked the look of GT games compared to Forza, even though I think Forza is still a better game technically this time around and Turn 10 really knows their stuff. However, after GT4, personally, Forza games have been better in terms of gameplay and now, compared to GTS, better in terms of track selection and car selection as well.
However, Forza to me has sharper textures, looks crisper thanks to its resolution, that 4k HDR 60fps can’t be overlooked imo. Plus all the weather conditions and changing times of day makes this a looker on my Xbox One X.
I always really liked the look of GT games compared to Forza, even though I think Forza is still a better game technically this time around and Turn 10 really knows their stuff. However, after GT4, personally, Forza games have been better in terms of gameplay and now, compared to GTS, better in terms of track selection and car selection as well.
FrankHowley
Member
only forza 7
it_wasn't_me
Banned
GTS wins in graphics department overall ( as DF stated in video ) and it has way more realistic look. In Forza 7 i really don't like limited weather change and time of day depends on player movement ( like DF said in video ).
thelastword
Banned
Sharper details does not denote much in contrast here or in context. I think it's established that GTS has superiority in details, by a good margin in some aspects. Primarily, Car Polygon Count, PBR, Lighting, Foliage, Geometry, Draw Distance, Crowds, Pit Crews etc....So if fidelity is higher on GTS, I don't think a game of lower fidelity in Forza 7 can be said to have sharper detail. Yes it has a higher resolution or sharper IQ, but it does not have sharper details, because the details are below that of GTS.
That much has been ascertained, comparing GTS on a PRO against a high core intel CPU decked with a Titan XP for Forza 7 at 4k 60fps......Not even a XBOX-ONE-S, which Spencer said the PRO is comparable to...and certainly not the XBONEX behemoth where it is not, where detail and settings are both below that of this high end PC.
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qa_engineer
Member
Pc and Xbox gamers have a great racer, PS4 owners have a great racer. PS4 and pc owners have two great racers. Everyone wins.
xion4360
Member
allow me to elaborate then. Im playing on pro and X, I get what you are saying and I dont disagree, but GTS does have its downsides compared to Forza like flickering shadows, more pop-in (not draw distance but near details like shadows drawing in, some trackside details popping in or switching to higher polygon meshes (flags, random stuff like fences or whatever), this happens with the cars too. there are some aspects of car models in GTS that show lower resolution, namely some logos splashed on the windshield, or the quality of reflections....im hard pressed to find stuff like that in Forza 7, or its harder to notice because of the high res asset data.
GTS is a better looking game absolutely and ive argued that to death before, Forza 7 is a sharper looking one. Im not saying sharper like that means better, just sharper as you would expect with more pixels on screen.
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BigLee74
Member
Doesn't take much for you to rise from your slumber for some Xbox bashing, does it?
Where is it established that GTS has superiority in details? In your nugget-shaped head, that's where. Certainly not in that DF video you posted, which went out of its way to point out the good in each, and to explain different approaches for certain aspects detailing both their advantages and disadvantages. You know, unbiased and informative stuff.
thelastword
Banned
Well one thing is really Jarring playing Forza 7 is the dynamic lod /texture rez on backgrounds, hills etc....And yes, I agree, some of the reflection resolutions on bonnets are not the sharpest in GTS, but the tradeoff was 60fps at least. On the flip, F7 has 30fps mirrors and reflections. If GTS was rendered at 4k it would look crisper and I agree Forza 7 does look crisp, but it does have some niggling issues with IQ, like some thin jaggie lines near the bumpers, on spoilers and the cusp of the hood....Also, lots of visual noise on fences, So 4xMSAA does not resolve these issues....
Btw, GTS has realtime shadows? So that's more expensive. Anyway, I will look into some of what you highlighted, but I don't remember the popping problem you mentioned. I think I've already explained that the lower rez refections you see on the bonnets of cars are the result of going 60fps, mirrors are also 60fps btw. So the lower rez reflection, is only a reflection on the car, not part of the car makeup, geometry or detailing.
It's been proven that Forza has a lower detail and polycount on the cars over GT, so in game with 30 players, that goes even lower based on proximity, and that has been proven in the other racing faceoff thread. There's also many pics showing the lower polycount on car detailing, pbr work et al in that thread too, so you probably want to get some proof from there. It's also easy to pick out the lower poly swaps in-game in F7. On the flip, I have not noticed car lod swaps in GTS. What gets me is that you talk about popping in GTS, but in Forza 7, it is a problem, especailly the texture swaps/see-saw lods, coupled with lots of 2d textures, 2d crowds and foliage, noisy fences. It's not the best case for IQ even at 4k. The flat lighting, non-dynamic shadows, missing bouncing reflections off cars, no tunnel headlights, are just a few of the details lost and are clear indicators of corners cut to make this run at 1080p 60fps on an XBOX ONE. The easiest indicator that F7 is not as technically proficient as GTS is not only what I've highlighted, but it's also clear by what hardware runs this at 4k 60fps on PC. Vega 56 runs this at 8k 60fps, rx 480/580/1060 runs this at 4k 60fps, with lots of room to spare. So this is not the most demanding game. . GTS is one of the only racers that offers an option for 60fps replays too. But, yes, I'll fire GTS up riight now to get some perspective on what you're talking about, as far as popping goes....
Journey
Banned
Does anyone know how long it took to make GTS and Forza 7? That would be an interesting comparison/benchmark
Come up with some kind of formula LOD x Resoltuion / Production time. I mean we might get Forza 8 before GTS 2, that's one of my biggest pet peeves with Polyphony. It looks like the Forza team may have invested more time elsewhere, in addition to having a reasonable output; I don't want to wait 5 years to see detailed lug nuts.
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xion4360
Member
the bonnet and mirror reflections look 60fps or close on forza 7 for your car when you are in cockpit or hood view. and they actually reflect the surrounding vehicles and effects unlike they high framerate but very low resolution reflections of GTS so I dont think you can honestly say GTS wins in that category.
I find it interesting that you are talking about LOD on Forza being jarring when I barely see anything in forza yet I see it very clearly in GTS. Are you comparison the Xbox one X version of Forza to the Pro version on GTS? because thats where im coming from. I guess we just have to disagree on that one.
Im not arguing anything about polygon counts on cars in GTS being higher.. I know they are and I said that in the first post you quoted, Im talking textures placed on those models...the decals of GT Sport logos or custom one.. those assets are not native 4K and sometimes show it..The cars themselves and trackside detail generally is a league ahead in GTS I never argued otherwise.. but Forza 7 simply does have a cleaner presentation because of its high pixel count and high res assets.
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thelastword
Banned
No.....reflections, mirrors, replays are halfrate in Forza (XBOX versions). Reflections are higher rez because they update at half refresh. I think a 60fps racer should have 60fps reflections, mirrors etc.....
I'm the biggest proponent of a higher pixel count, and that's great for Forza, but it's also easy to see why they can push rez so high. If a game is pulling some great ATD, high quality MB, lighting, PBR and texturework, foliage, polycount and renders at 1800CB rez, it's because GT is much more ambitious and tasking technically. You must also be aware, that the PS4 PRO GPU is able to run Forza 7 at 4k native 60fps, looking at PC equivalents.
I think 4k native is good, but at 4k, it's not like all your IQ issues are gone in this game. As a matter of fact, a lot of the sacrifices the Forza team made to run this at 1080p on base xbox one can be seen much easily at 4k. Flat lighting, lots of low rez textures, lots of 2d foliage, lots of 2d crowds, lower poly cars, lower draw distance, lower quality geometry, non-dynamic shadows, where you even see shadows missing on track at times, culled light sources in tunnels et al. All of these offer a huge perf uplift on the systems on which it has to run, that's why it runs at 60 on almost anything. But to my point on IQ, you see all of these graphical sacrifices in motion in F7, especially the trackside detail, the low rez textures in backgrounds, all the 2d trees and crowds, they don't look great at 4k now do they... and that tarnishes IQ regardless of rez, even more so at higher rez.
I'm also not convinced at all on the texture quality touted in F7, there is no way a game where they talk about 4k assets has such low rez textures and details and has so much see-saw texture detail in motion. Textures are 4096 x 4096? It doesn't even look close. I'll give Gears 4k textures, but this dynamic play on 4k textures is not convincing at all...
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xion4360
Member
Again, in cockpit and hood cam view reflections and mirrors dont look halfrate like they are on chase cam, and even so they ARE STILL superior to the LOW RES no reflection reflections of GTS. in GTS the reflections sometimes downgrade to 20 fps as well, and all cars copy the player car reflections instead of having their own.
low res textures? I dont know what youre talking about, I havent seen any low res textures anywhere in forza 7. They may generally not be as well done as GTS like ive said before GTS is superior in most respects, but they are crisp.
GTS LOOKS BETTER...but FORZA 7 does have its advantages over it. The fact that you are unwilling to admit it at all shows that you are biased and I dont like going back and forth with biased people, its useless. Ignore.
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GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
You must be new, this insane fanboy fool was perma banned in OG GAF..I think you know why.
TheAdmiester
Member
Since it's fun to play at the same game...
I think a 60fps racer should have 60fps, but last time I checked GTS wasn't locked.
thelastword
Banned
No reflection reflections? What are you even talking about.... and get me some receipts on 20fps reflections in GTS...
Lots don't render at full rez in Forza 7. What we have here is low/rez/quality photogrammetry textures. Many patches are inconsistent and low rez, but you are only bent on 4k, as if High resolution is the only litmust test by which IQ is judged. How about all the 2D bitmaps and flat textures behind fences and guardrails et al? You see all that in motion just the same. It's just strange that you pretend to be oblivious to it.....This is my last bit on this, I think the compromises in Forza 7 has been thoroughly dissected to shreds already with lots of pics and evidence, so believe what you must...
When was the last time you checked? Or was it the last time you wished.....Lets get some stats in here.....
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0_-xNc3jmcs7FPZ2HjWXcPWG1GI/edit#gid=98296990
Funny still, that you want to change the conversation from 30fps mirrors and reflections to 60fps gameplay. It's just that GTS refreshes at 60 on everything, which makes sense and is the right call in motion.