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[Sinistral]

Just watched the video and the frame pacing on the Forza videos was noticeably worse than the videos from GT. GT videos appears smoother despite both rendering at 60fps and utilizing motion blur. Forza also had a horrible camera shake on the 3rd person view. But the frame pacing issues were there even on other views and replays.

They both look pretty good... It's too bad VR has ruined racing/cockpit games for me and I won't touch sim/cockpit games without it.

 

[R_Deckard]

Just curious to know why there are these strictly imposed deadlines since, unless I’m misinformed, DF is really the only outlet to cover these aspects in detail in full writing and video format?

I would guess Nxgamer is the reason, he was on twitter about this test last week talking about it. He is the reason DF do what they do now.

 

[mejin]

PD still the king.

 

[eso76]

Very good analysis.

I think gt tessellation wasn't mentioned though ?

And how all or most Forza cars feature a modelled engine bay and have several customizable parts.

 

[Caayn]

The reason this comparison is valid is because Xbox One X use almost the identical settings as Max Pc. The only difference is that PC can go higher than 60 fps.

Will it though? Aren't reflections for one running at 30fps on XB1X?

 

[chubigans]

Maybe Turn 10 should not release games so frequently (do we really need so many Forzas?) It's the choice of the devs so they should live by that IMHO.

I doubt Turn 10 has much say. MS as the publisher has way more say as to their development schedules.

Because they rely on Forza as a pillar of their portfolio they can’t afford for it to miss it’s bi-annual schedule.

 

[Novocaine]

Maybe Turn 10 should not release games so frequently (do we really need so many Forzas?) It's the choice of the devs so they should live by that IMHO.

I don’t think we do but it’s not up to me.

Motorsport anyway, Horizon does different stuff so I’m all for that being every 2 years especially when it’s as good as 3 is.

 

[JetSetRadio]

Japan wins.

 

[gtj1092]

I’m sure if Turn 10 only made 1 game in 6 years with less cars and tracks then they would have been able to spend more time on the smaller details as well.

Of course GTS looks better.

2013 is six years ago? The time difference in development is not an excuse unless you are claiming Turn 10 starts over in their design for each new Forza.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yeah if anything it shows how far ahead Turn 10 is in talent and will. Made a game with far more content in half the time with half the people that easily keeps up with gts graphically(they both do things better). Plus it reviewed far better.

What are you talking about ?
Turn 10 was bigger than PD for a long while plus they outsource stuff while PD does not .
It's only in the last 2 or so years that PD has gotten bigger .

 

[goonergaz]

I doubt Turn 10 has much say. MS as the publisher has way more say as to their development schedules.

Because they rely on Forza as a pillar of their portfolio they can’t afford for it to miss it’s bi-annual schedule.

It's more of a yearly thing now if you include Horizon. But let's be honest, Forza is up against GT and GT always comes out on top as the graphical winner...maybe once XBO had Forza it should allow for the team to work on the graphics more than another title.

 

[Corine]

What are you talking about ?
Turn 10 was bigger than PD for a long while plus they outsource stuff while PD does not .
It's only in the last 2 or so years that PD has gotten bigger .

So not only was everything I said right, but you're also saying Turn 10 is smarter also because they outsource things like every other developer has done for decades?

 

[Qassim]

I'm just amazed that GTS looks as good as it does on much weaker hardware than the PC F7 is running on.

To me, it's more accurate to look at it this way: On PC, 'max settings' were largely designed for the Xbox One X, so I don't think it's entirely fair to put this in the context of 'well the PC is significantly more powerful' - because the target for these settings is the Xbox One X, which is more powerful but not /that much/ more powerful. F7 is targeting native 4K which would suck up a decent portion of the power advantage the XBX has over the PS4 Pro.

The argument to me is which approach delivers more value for the resources spent. Whilst I've expressed a preference for the more stable image of Forza 7, on consoles of this power, I don't necessarily think it's wisely spent on native 4k. If T10 had set their native resolution target lower, they may have had more resources available to spend on the things that I think makes GTS stand out (as I said earlier, stuff like particle illumination and other night effects). I think the biggest benefit for native 4K on Forza 7 XBX is for Microsoft, they have a marketable bullet point.

 

[rokkerkory]

It's more of a yearly thing now if you include Horizon. But let's be honest, Forza is up against GT and GT always comes out on top as the graphical winner...maybe once XBO had Forza it should allow for the team to work on the graphics more than another title.

If the focus waa gfx was priority we'd prob get a game every 4-5 years with limited options, cars, tracks etc.

Double edged sword.

 

[Hoo-doo]

So not only was everything I said right, but you're also saying Turn 10 is smarter also because they outsource things like every other developer has done for decades?

Smarter is arguable. PD wants to do everything in-house so they can mandate a level of model quality that outsourcing cannot achieve. That's their vision on the matter and a reason why the DF Face-Off has GTS taking the crown.

You could call them being way too anal about that stuff, but I don't feel they should have to compromise on this level of quality because you feel the wait between games is too long.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

So not only was everything I said right, but you're also saying Turn 10 is smarter also because they outsource things like every other developer has done for decades?

Well GT has the better car models and certain aspect because they do everything in house .
So i guess it depends on what think more important .
Either way there good and bad aspects in the way each company do things .

 

[LostDonkey]

I think we'll have to wait for the X1X final product and a DF analysis for a verdict on this.

I have trouble believing that a PC with three times the raw power of the X1X is going to look visually identical to the console version. Because honestly, that sounds like PC gamers getting shafted.

Wouldn't be the first and I'm sure not the last time.

 

[Complicated]

It would be pretty fucked up if polyphony spent all that time on such little content and they still didn't come out looking better in at least some areas. I definitely don't think what differences are there justify the direction they took the series though.

 

[De_Legend]

GTS is a beast.

 

[Bustanen]

GT looks more like real world simulation thanks to its incredible lighting. Forza is sharper but looks "gamey". Replays especially show a day and night difference.

 

[Qassim]

I think we'll have to wait for the X1X final product and a DF analysis for a verdict on this.

I have trouble believing that a PC with three times the raw power of the X1X is going to look visually identical to the console version. Because honestly, that sounds like PC gamers getting shafted.

The power available doesn't really have anything to do with it. That power being available doesn't mean the game will automatically scale to higher quality levels than what were developed into the game.

Microsoft are releasing a new console in a few weeks with the primary selling point being it's power. I don't find it terribly hard to believe that Microsoft wouldn't want to put development effort into having another version of a flagship launch title for that console being noticeably better on another platform (outside of standard PC stuff, higher framerate & resolution).

GTS looks a bit better but I'd still prefer to play Forza as it actually has some sp career mode.

this is off-topic.

 

[Peroroncino]

GTS looks a bit better but I'd still prefer to play Forza as it actually has some sp career mode.

 

[Hoo-doo]

The power available doesn't really have anything to do with it. That power being available doesn't mean the game will automatically scale to higher quality levels than what were developed into the game.

Microsoft are releasing a new console in a few weeks with the primary selling point being it's power. I don't find it terribly hard to believe that Microsoft wouldn't want to put development effort into having another version of a flagship launch title for that console being noticeably better (outside of standard PC stuff, higher framerate & resolution) on another platform.

That sounds like a held-back PC port then.

 

[Duderino]

Yea, I'm sure too. It's not like I'm saying T10 aren't talented, they are also very talented devs and F7 looks incredible to say the least.

I'm just amazed that GTS looks as good as it does on much weaker hardware than the PC F7 is running on.

Pixel count aside, it’s clear that the dev’s tech and attention to detail play a much larger role here that the hardware it’s running on. Strange thing to say about simulation racing games, given their history of selling people on the graphics prowess of one console over another.

Now what’ll be interesting to see, come 2018 and beyond, is if the same will be true for the remaining 1st party games this generation.

 

[Fredrik]

I think we'll have to wait for the X1X final product and a DF analysis for a verdict on this.

I have trouble believing that a PC with three times the raw power of the X1X is going to look visually identical to the console version. Because honestly, that sounds like PC gamers getting shafted.

I definitely don't feel like I'm being shafted, PC version goes further in other areas, like being able to output at three screens at higher fps, console-Forza will always be about casual sim racing for me, when I play console I'm slouching at the couch with a controller in my hands and when I want to race seriously I'm at my triple screen PC rig with a steering wheel. Graphics is good enough.

 

[Qassim]

That sounds like a held-back PC port then.

Yeah, to me, it is. I'm enjoying the game a lot, but speaking from experience with a 1080Ti - I have a huge amount of headroom on this game at 'max settings'.

 

[RoboPlato]

Loved the video, John

I usually find these games exceedingly boring to watch footage of but your knowledge, narration, and editing made the whole thing very enjoyable. Well done

All I really have to say about the games themselves is that GT needs motion blur while racing to enhance that sense of speed.

 

[Insane Metal]

It seems that, at least technically, PD finally managed to do what they tried with the PS3.

Too bad the game is a departure from other GT titles content wise.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Windhshield fluid nozzle ftw

 

[Gek54]

Really happy to see GT return to a solid 60 but it desperately needs to bring back dynamic lighting and weather. Just having the car's drive in and out of the shadows of moving clouds makes these games feel much more alive and organic.

 

[nOoblet16]

That sounds like a held-back PC port then.

That's not how it works. There's only so much work you can put into a game during development while maintaining a consistent level of quality and also meeting the development schedule (Forza had like what 2 years of development?). Just because it's not pushing the top end machine doesn't mean the game is held back in a bad sense. They put considerable amount of effort on top of base Xbox version for providing appropriate upgrades for One X. That's a lot of work already and yet the PC version is still better than One X.

In what ways do you think they can improve upon the current game so that the top end hardware is utilised properly? Replace the 2D trees and crowds with 3D ones? Change the lighting system to include dynamic shadows and more accurate lighting? Sure all these are viable upgrades which would really push the top end hardware but how feasible is it to do it?

Why do you think the difference between various presets in most PC games these days barely has any effect on the general look of the game and only goes improve the quality of features already present in the game rather than adding something totally new? It's because it's not feasible to create new assets and render pipeline for each settings when the work done to create the base level is already so time consuming. It's why the difference between high and ultra is usually just half resolution precision vs full resolution precision , or LOD distance of 20m vs LOD distance of 30m while using the same assets....instead of something like a separate lighting model for high and ultra.

 

[chromatic9]

I think we'll have to wait for the X1X final product and a DF analysis for a verdict on this.

I have trouble believing that a PC with three times the raw power of the X1X is going to look visually identical to the console version. Because honestly, that sounds like PC gamers getting shafted.

MS have brought an Xbox One game to PC, they're not going to put in extra work, change the lighting model. Check back to the original Forza 7 DF video, resolution and slightly higher LOD is pretty much it on PC, they look largely similar. XBX is going to be inline with the PC game most likely, the whole PC project was with XBX in mind, perhaps you can scrape the barrel and see some tiny effect slightly higher on PC like mirror resolution or something.

Rise of the Tomb Raider had a lot of enhancements but quite a few games that get brought to PC, the only benefit you get is running it at higher resolution some higher AF or higher res shadows. You can go back to Resident Evil 5, I ran that at 250fps on "max settings" but max settings was pretty much console settings. It isn't going to look different unless the devs decide to add extras for a much fewer amount of players.

 

[Mohasus]

What happens if you race on the wrong way in Forza? Does time rewind?

Just watched the video and the frame pacing on the Forza videos was noticeably worse than the videos from GT. GT videos appears smoother despite both rendering at 60fps and utilizing motion blur. Forza also had a horrible camera shake on the 3rd person view. But the frame pacing issues were there even on other views and replays.

PC version. It doesn't happen on consoles.

 

[Valtýr]

Is GT worth it on a standard PS4? Still 60FPS? Any degree of a downgrade in graphics beyond just being 1080p?

 

[plagiarize]

Really enjoyed the video, although I was hoping it was going to look at the different HDR implementations too, but then I saw this video wasn't HDR.

Maybe to be revisited when you get an Xbox One X? I'll keep my fingers crossed.

On my current 58" 4KTV, from the distance I sit from the TV, GTSport outshone Forza 7. If I managed to trade up to a 65" OLED maybe the IQ differences would be more apparent... but as it is, the main things that stand out are the lighting differences and detail on the car models.

The one area I'd applaud Forza visually is in it's more dynamic lighting, but in any given moment, the paint, the plastics, etc, all look brighter, more vibrant and more realistic in GTSport.

Shame I don't really play online racers though. I'll probably get Forza 7 over GT Sport for the meatier single player content, but you can bet that I'm hoping that we aren't waiting too long before getting a 'full' GT title. I'll maybe get Sport when it drops to a price more representative of it's *single player* offering, but for both right $60 I know which one I'll be buying.

Although yeah, I also know which one offers the more pleasing image, at least on my TV set.

 

[Diablohead]

Maybe Turn 10 should not release games so frequently (do we really need so many Forzas?) It's the choice of the devs so they should live by that IMHO.

It would have been nice to see 6 supported with more expansion packs, not car packs.. expansions, keep it alive until the X1X was out and then give us 7 with some amazing visual eyecandy, 6 is still a great game and I also think they come out too quickly.

 

[plagiarize]

It would have been nice to see 6 supported with more expansion packs, not car packs.. expansions, keep it alive until the X1X was out and then give us 7 with some amazing visual eyecandy, 6 is still a great game and I also think they come out too quickly.

You've got to figure they wanted a relatively new headline title to launch around the X1X launch. I don't know that 7 would be dropping now if not for the X1X being just around the corner.

 

[Seganomics]

this is off-topic.

Slightly, but it does highlight the fact that if GTS had tried to match Forza in terms of scope then we may be seeing a different result to what we see here.

 

[c0de]

It’s already been proven by other videos. Rock solid 60fps.
https://youtu.be/Vidu3c7RROc

Stable but not locked, especially on the console where most of the sales will be.
Still a huge improvement to what gamers got on PS3.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Stable but not locked, especially on the console where most of the sales will be.
Still a huge improvement to what gamers got on PS3.

I skipped through the footage and didn't see a single deviation from 60, got any examples?.

It's as close to locked 60FPS as games get these days.

 

[c0de]

I skipped through the footage and didn't see a single deviation from 60. It's as close to locked 60FPS as games get these days.

Get used to vgtech, they are awesome. Especially as they also always provide stats for their videos. It's in the description for those interested.

 

[scanferr]

I would be very happy if Forza 7 didn't crash all the time though. It's completely ridiculous, zero improvements on this regard compared to FH3.

 

[icecold1983]

It's not even subjective.

Game rendering in 4k native is a more TECHNICAL demanding rendering than using 1800cb

Because resolution is the only factor in rendering load. You heard it here first folks!!

My opinion remains unchanged after this great video. GT >>> Forza >>>>>>> pcars 2

 

[jabuseika]

These Threads are amazing.


Also, the Forza 7 demo on PC would constantly crash for me. Reason why I didn't buy it. I wonder how the final release is.

 

[Diablohead]

You've got to figure they wanted a relatively new headline title to launch around the X1X launch. I don't know that 7 would be dropping now if not for the X1X being just around the corner.

Spoiler

PGR 5

 

[LostDonkey]

I would be very happy if Forza 7 didn't crash all the time though. It's completely ridiculous, zero improvements on this regard compared to FH3.

Hmmm very strange. I've been playing since launch on PC and haven't had a single crash.

 

[Yekshemesh]

No, I will not stop. Because console warrior stuff is flat out banned by this site.

Than PM a mod instead of whining in this thread.

 

[Space_nut]

Loving F7

-dynamic weather
-tod changes
-4k native superior to 1800cb *said by Dark10 himself
-Higher detailed environment textures
-environment reacts to cars *tires individually have physics
-Reflections on every car uses unique dynamic cube maps instead of one single reflection that shows up on all cars like gts :\
-24 AI cars
-no shadow pop up or glitches going on
-Damage alot better than gts

 

[c0de]

Because resolution is the only factor in rendering load. You heard it here first folks!!

Huh? Who says that? And it's one of the things that directly relate to computing power.

 

[Seganomics]

Loving F7

-dynamic weather
-tod changes
-4k native superior to 1800cb *said by Dark10 himself
-Higher detailed environment textures
-environment reacts to cars *tires individually have physics
-Reflections on every car uses unique dynamic cube maps instead of one single reflection like gts
-24 AI cars
-no shadow pop up or glitches going on

Sure. But don't you think GTS looks just that bit nicer when you see them both in action?