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[strange headache]

Things like wearing a Burzum shirt every day at Gamescom 2017 (Burzum spoke about and supported racial purity and white supremacy) are telling of his social views as well as his twitter comments.

That's not true! He wore a different Black Metal shirt each day at Gamescom. I'm not a Black Metal fan, so let me just quote the Wikipedia article on Burzum:

Burzum (/ˈbɜːrzəm/; Norwegian: [ˈbʉrtsʉm]) is a Norwegian music project founded by Varg Vikernes in 1991. Although Burzum never played live performances, it became a part of the early Norwegian black metal scene and is considered to be one of the most influential acts in black metal. The word "burzum" means "darkness" in the Black Speech, a fictional language crafted by Lord of the Rings writer J. R. R. Tolkien. [...] Vikernes began making music as a teenager in 1988, but it was not until 1991 that he recorded his first demos as Burzum. [...] Although Vikernes is known for his controversial political views, he does not use Burzum to promote those views, and his lyrics are non-political.

Are you suggesting that Black Metal fans are racist for merely listening to a band that spearheaded their music genre while being completely non-political? Of course not, you're merely twisting the truth so that it conforms to your subjective presuppositions.

Truth is, a million people bought a game largely influenced by a guy that's probably a racist but don't care because the gaming media made the argument for racism ridiculous.

Yeah, congratulations for replacing one ridiculous argument with another. You're not any better than the gaming media you're trying to bash.

 

[Rim]

The developers might actually be happy by their decision.
It seems GB was going to trash the game and give it a bad score.

 

[michaelius]

Obviously, if the media had no concerns about Varva being racist they'd never raise the complaint about lack of POC. But that's all the media focused on, inadvertently making the whole argument about racism in this game seem ridiculous. If anything, the media's idiotic focus on lack of POC, gave Vavra and all his supporters a perfect defense against racism, which is clear based on all the comment in this thread.

The were no controversies about Witcher 3 developers and some people still criticized game for lack of POC.

Aparently diversity is only measured by number of people of color and not such silly things like barely used before settings or mythologies.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

The were no controversies about Witcher 3 developers and some people still criticized game for lack of POC.

Aparently diversity is only measured by number of people of color and not such silly things like barely used before settings or mythologies.

People here (who have since left) also criticised the developers of Nioh for featuring a white male protagonist. Despite the fact that the game was faithful to the source material.

 

[Kotzen Ducha]

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

Disagree with you = NAZI! GAMERGATE!

SOMEBODY PUNCH THEM! HURRY! MODS, HELP!

 

[Kadayi]

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

Oh noes someone criticised Giant Bomb ....clearly the forum has gone to shit

 

[NahaNago]

It's fine for them to not cover it but also odd. If interest is the reason then ,alright since I can understand that since I don't have that much interest in the game as well but if other games pop up under these clouds of issues and they refuse to cover them then everyone really knows whats up.

 

[Scopa]

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

TRANSLATION: “I don’t like people being able to voice their opinions if they differ to mine, therefore I will mock them in a dismissive fashion, in an attempt to portray that I don’t really care and am above that, even though the fact that I’m posting in the first place betrays that portrayal.”

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What sensational reactions. It's really interesting how all three of you decided to try to twist or "spin" my words so you could lash out against a strawman of your own making. Even more interesting how you tried to position it as me being the one shouting down different viewpoints when that's exactly what you're attempting to do. Nevermind that most of this thread has been about shitting on Jeff and Giant Bomb for holding an opinion that differs from your own. Do you not see the hypocrisy there?

Despite your crazy conspiracy theories, it's pretty clear to see why Kingdom Come is not a game that would interest the staff in general. They almost all have a strong dislike or lack of interest for medieval fantasy and, in general, have a pretty low tolerance for jank and game-breaking bugs. Combine that with some very unfriendly systems and you have a recipe for a game that Giant Bomb would almost certainly completely shit on if they were forced to cover it. I'm really enjoying it, but if you've followed Giant Bomb for a while, it's pretty clear that this is just not a game that would be up their alley, particularly Jeff's.

 

[ickythingz]

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

Oh I see. We are all terrible people for having a different opinion. Interesting perspective you have on life.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Oh I see. We are all terrible people for having a different opinion. Interesting perspective you have on life.

This is a thread full of people shitting on Jeff and Giant Bomb for not being interested in a game they like and are seemingly on a crusade to promote.

Yes, I find a lot of the opinions in here and other threads since site came back to be quite vile indeed. If you share those opinions, then yeah, I'm not going to think too highly of you. Do you think that all opinions are equally valid? I would happily disagree with that.

 

[Scopa]

What sensational reactions. It's really interesting how all three of you decided to try to twist or "spin" my words so you could lash out against a strawman of your own making. Even more interesting how you tried to position it as me being the one shouting down different viewpoints when that's exactly what you're attempting to do. Nevermind that most of this thread has been about shitting on Jeff and Giant Bomb for holding an opinion that differs from your own. Do you not see the hypocrisy there?

I merely posted an opinion of your post, exactly like you did.

Go ahead and attempt to explain how I am shouting you down (or shouting down Giant Bomb, if that’s what you meant).

I’ll wait.

 

[strange headache]

This is a thread full of people shitting on Jeff and Giant Bomb for not being interested in a game they like and are seemingly on a crusade to promote.

But them shitting on a game developer for unfounded reasons is completely a-ok, right?

 

[PedroPanache]

I don't think there's anything remotely controversial about GiantBomb's decision not to cover the game based on Jeff's answer. He was honest enough to say that the director's views were a factor and that it just wasn't in their wheelhouse. They've skipped out on big games before and they'll continue to miss the odd major release. It's never been in their mandate to cover everything like in the Gamespot days, and considering what Jeff was saying recently about this thoughts on the declining relevance of the written review, they're even less incentivized to pick up coverage on games that exist on the fringe of their interests. If people want to try and politicize this further and not take Jeff at his word, they're welcome, I just imagine in throwing his hands up in the air and thinking 'oh! for goodness sake!".

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I merely posted an opinion of your post, exactly like you did.

Go ahead and attempt to explain how I am shouting you down (or shouting down Giant Bomb, if that’s what you meant).

I’ll wait.

No, you didn't post an opinion of my post. What are you on about? Your reply was a farcical "translation" or sensational interpretation full of nonsense that I absolutely did not say or imply just so you could go on the defensive. If that was not done in an attempt to dismiss and silence (i.e. shout down), then fine, but that's certainly what it looked like to me.

But them shitting on a game developer for unfounded reasons is completely a-ok, right?

What do you mean? He said the guy had "shitty views." What's wrong with Jeff having that opinion?

 

[PedroPanache]

But them shitting on a game developer for unfounded reasons is completely a-ok, right?

Well, yes, it's perfectly reasonable. Particularly when you consider that from Jeff's point of view his reasons are not unfounded at all. He disagrees with the director's politics to the point it has factored into his considerations in covering the game.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I know the OP is banned now, but I also found it funny how he accuses Jeff of going "full reset-era" when the highly active Kingdom Come thread over there has over 4,000 posts and tons of people talking about the game in very positive ways.

 

[Scopa]

No, you didn't post an opinion of my post. What are you on about? Your reply was a farcical "translation" or sensational interpretation full of nonsense that I absolutely did not say or imply just so you could go on the defensive. If that was not done in an attempt to dismiss and silence (i.e. shout down), then fine, but that's certainly what it looked like to me.

It is very much my opinion of your post. That opinion being that your poor attempt to shape the narrative by insulting this forum was very transparent and is there for all to see.

I just framed it in a humorous manner because I am a funny guy and I aim to please.

You need to get yourself a dictionary and look up the definition of “silence”. I in no way shouted you down. Your original post can be construed as more likely shouting down, if anything.

You need to stop with the fairytales and construct your arguments better in my opinion.

 

[decisions]

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

This post could use some quotes giving examples of posters supporting white supremacy, sexism or the other negative things associated with Gamergate to support the conclusion. Seems like you're just insulting the whole community here without proper evidence for the judgment you're making.

No, you didn't post an opinion of my post. What are you on about? Your reply was a farcical "translation" or sensational interpretation full of nonsense that I absolutely did not say or imply just so you could go on the defensive. If that was not done in an attempt to dismiss and silence (i.e. shout down), then fine, but that's certainly what it looked like to me.

I hope eventually this kind of "meta-arguing" dissipates on this website. This is an example of two people presenting their differing opinions on something, then arguing about the reasoning behind each other's presentation of their opinion (searching for political implications), and thereby making no progress in discussing the original topic. It's the type of fruitless discussion that is had all the time on OldGAF and ERA because of a fear of biased moderation banning the participants. It has no intellectual value and I hope the new moderation here (which seems to only ban when truly warranted) motivates people to feel justified in defending their opinion through rationality and not fear/hostility, like a good discussion in the real world.

 

[strange headache]

What do you mean? He said the guy had "shitty views." What's wrong with Jeff having that opinion?

What's wrong with people in this topic having a different opinion than Jeff? Because that's essentially what you've been complaining about. If Jeff can call other people's views shitty, other people can call his views shitty too.

 

[Kadayi]

I know the OP is banned now, but I also found it funny how he accuses Jeff of going "full reset-era" when the highly active Kingdom Come thread over there has over 4,000 posts and tons of people talking about the game in very positive ways.

So let me get this right, first you come in saying OMG this forums gamergate central with no justification and the next minute you're shilling Resetera? If you like it so much, why don't you go there instead? Personally, I prefer a forum that doesn't have a moderation team that tells me what I must think about a topic. That just seems like a tyranny to me.

 

[Hissing Sid]

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here.

Agreed.

I don’t know about you but now when I come to this forum I sit with my shoulders slightly stooped and slowly shake my head from side to side in despair at the sad state of affairs.

NaziGaf. Amirite?

Sometimes I wear a mournful expression.

I’ve even found myself sighing dejectedly.

Do you find yourself sighing dejectedly?

Obviously coping mechanisms differ from person to person but I’ve found the dejected sigh really helps.

Big hugs. xxx

 

[PedroPanache]

So let me get this right, first you come in saying OMG this forums gamergate central with no justification and the next minute you're shilling Resetera? If you like it so much, why don't you stay there instead?

He's not shilling, he's pointing out the irony of using "full reset-era" as some sort of shorthand for regressive behaviour isn't that useful in the context of ResetEra having their own discussion about the game, because, it would seem, many users over there are really digging it at the moment. NeoGAF is in danger of becoming one of those sites, much in the vein of KotakuInAction, where discussion is centered around what 'the other side' are doing and how over here we're having the proper discussions, we're allowing free speech and differing opinions to be had. Well, that's all well and good, but when you have to keep pointing that out over and over, it tends to get in the way of people having real discussions and disagreements.

 

[Scopa]

how over here we're having the proper discussions, we're allowing free speech and differing opinions to be had. Well, that's all well and good, but when you have to keep pointing that out over and over, it tends to get in the way of people having real discussions and disagreements.

Surely you have noticed that the reason people feel the need to keep “pointing that out” is because of the constant barrage of random people coming into threads here and disparaging the community whilst simultaneously promoting the benefits of other gaming communities?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

The OP was banned for that bit of shit stirring btw. Anyway it's always a bit rich seeing people that left of their own choice complaining that their views aren't represented here. They could still post what they think here but they choose not to.

 

[Kadayi]

He's not shilling, he's pointing out the irony of using "full reset-era" as some sort of shorthand for regressive behaviour isn't that useful in the context of ResetEra having their own discussion about the game, because, it would seem, many users over there are really digging it at the moment. NeoGAF is in danger of becoming one of those sites, much in the vein of KotakuInAction, where discussion is centered around what 'the other side' are doing and how over here we're having the proper discussions, we're allowing free speech and differing opinions to be had. Well, that's all well and good, but when you have to keep pointing that out over and over, it tends to get in the way of people having real discussions and disagreements.

This threads about Jeff Gerstmann and KCD, not Resetera. The OP got banned for the weekend for that dig. So yeah, when someone whose contributed apparently nothing constructive to this forum of late from what I can tell of does a driveby shitpost of 'you're all game gators' and then proceeds to extol the virtues of another forum as if it was the land of milk and honey I'm inclined to go with 'shill'.
Maybe the next post can be on topic.

 

[Horsemama1956]

I'll pick this up when they patch it into a finished game.

 

[PedroPanache]

Surely you have noticed that the reason people feel the need to keep “pointing that out” is because of the constant barrage of random people coming into threads here and disparaging the community whilst simultaneously promoting the benefits of other gaming communities?

I've also noticed an even bigger appetite to poke the bear's nest and create topics surrounding ResetEra. So, on one hand we've got what you say, and on the other we've also got people moving back and forth creating drama topics about communities elsewhere and participating in drama for the sake of entertainment. These things feed off each other and infect the topics they're in and degrade discussion to the point where you're inviting the quality of poster who would be in their element posting about their latest attempt to wind up ResetEra, dutifully reporting back here for a pat on the back. If that's NeoGAF's future, it's over before it's even begun.

This threads about Jeff Gerstmann and KCD, not Resetera. The OP got banned for the weekend for that dig. So yeah, when someone whose contributed apparently nothing constructive to this forum of late from what I can tell of does a driveby shitpost of 'you're all game gators' and then proceeds to extol the virtues of another forum as if it was the land of milk and honey I'm inclined to go with 'shill'.
Maybe the next post can be on topic.

It's only a driveby shitpost if he doesn't drive back and explain himself further.

 

[Kadayi]

It's only a driveby shitpost if he doesn't drive back and explain himself further.

Digging the hole bigger doesn't make it any less full of crap. Let's see: -

Despite your crazy conspiracy theories, it's pretty clear to see why Kingdom Come is not a game that would interest the staff in general. They almost all have a strong dislike or lack of interest for medieval fantasy and, in general, have a pretty low tolerance for jank and game-breaking bugs. Combine that with some very unfriendly systems and you have a recipe for a game that Giant Bomb would almost certainly completely shit on if they were forced to cover it. I'm really enjoying it, but if you've followed Giant Bomb for a while, it's pretty clear that this is just not a game that would be up their alley, particularly Jeff's.

^ GB has played plenty of broken assed games for quick looks, and KCD isn't exactly in Boiling Point territory in that regard. The assertion just doesn't hold up to critical scrutiny.

 

[Scopa]

These things feed off each other and infect the topics they're in and degrade discussion to the point where you're inviting the quality of poster who would be in their element posting about their latest attempt to wind up ResetEra, dutifully reporting back here for a pat on the back. If that's NeoGAF's future, it's over before it's even begun.

I know who you are referring to and he has been lambasted on here for doing what he is doing. There are no pats on the back that I have seen. Most just ignore him actually.

You are painting a picture that is not truthful and I think you know that.

Anyway, this is getting way off topic. We should probably stop as the thread is getting derailed.

 

[Dr. Claus]

This is a thread full of people shitting on Jeff and Giant Bomb for not being interested in a game they like and are seemingly on a crusade to promote.

Yes, I find a lot of the opinions in here and other threads since site came back to be quite vile indeed. If you share those opinions, then yeah, I'm not going to think too highly of you. Do you think that all opinions are equally valid? I would happily disagree with that.

Why are you making such disingenuous/hypocritical arguments?

What sensational reactions. It's really interesting how all three of you decided to try to twist or "spin" my words so you could lash out against a strawman of your own making. Even more interesting how you tried to position it as me being the one shouting down different viewpoints when that's exactly what you're attempting to do. Nevermind that most of this thread has been about shitting on Jeff and Giant Bomb for holding an opinion that differs from your own. Do you not see the hypocrisy there?

Lets look back to your original post that started this so called "spinning of words". Given your post history, it is clear to see that you consider "Gamer Gate" and anything related to it in a bad light. So please tell me how many ways one is supposed to take your quote:

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

It is quite difficult to read this as anything other than you insulting the current community. You are, in your words "shouting down different viewpoints". Most folk here are having a discussion, one that some agree with and some disagree with. It is perfectly fine to think Jeff may be doing this for political reasons. It is perfectly fine to say that you do not care for Jeff or GB. It is perfectly fine to say that Jeff is not reviewing this because it simply doesn't interest him. Different people will have different opinions, which is clearly shown in this thread. What people don't care for is when others, such as yourself and KevinKeene, come in and blame/insult an entire community to get a rise out of people or to shut down conversation.

As a side note:

I know the OP is banned now, but I also found it funny how he accuses Jeff of going "full reset-era" when the highly active Kingdom Come thread over there has over 4,000 posts and tons of people talking about the game in very positive ways.

Yes, they are talking about the game in some positive ways with a major asterisk behind that. - for if you dare mention anything positive about Vavre then prepare to be banned. This is what I believe Keene and others have been referring to with their distaste for ResetEra's admin/moderation practices.

 

[PedroPanache]

I know who you are referring to and he has been lambasted on here for doing what he is doing. There are no pats on the back that I have seen. Most just ignore him actually.

You are painting a picture that is not truthful and I think you know that.

Anyway, this is getting way off topic. We should probably stop as the thread is getting derailed.

Oh, we should just stop at the point where you question my integrity, and decide that I'm deliberately not painting a truthful picture. It was just one poster anyway. Apparently, I know this. Because it's convenient for you to assume such a thing. But, yeah, let's end this thread of conversation right here. We can't have an adjunct to a conversation thread now, can we? That would be most unreasonable.

 

[Scopa]

Oh, we should just stop at the point where you question my integrity, and decide that I'm deliberately not painting a truthful picture. It was just one poster anyway. Apparently, I know this. Because it's convenient for you to assume such a thing. But, yeah, let's end this thread of conversation right here. We can't have an adjunct to a conversation thread now, can we? That would be most unreasonable.

After I posted, I thought you might take it that way. I am not trying to silence you. I value open and honest discussion.

I just think, when a mod steps in here, they’ll probably point out the off topic discussion straight away.

We can continue if you like? Even in PMs if you prefer?

I do believe you know who I am talking about, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Kadayi]

Yes, they are talking about the game in some positive ways with a major asterisk behind that. - for if you dare mention anything positive about Vavre then prepare to be banned. This is what I believe Keene and others have been referring to with their distaste for ResetEra's admin/moderation practices.

Indeed as bad as GAF got before the exodus in terms of an echo chamber don't recall any such overt statements of what constitutes acceptable groupthink before.

 

[PedroPanache]

After I posted, I thought you might take it that way. I am not trying to silence you. I value open and honest discussion.

I just think, when a mod steps in here, they’ll probably point out the off topic discussion straight away.

We can continue if you like? Even in PMs if you prefer?

I do believe you know who I am talking about, but that is just my opinion.

I'm not really that concerned about mods at the moment. It's clear they're trying something different. I think as an adjunct from the OP's original post, it's perfectly fine to flex the new bounds of the system. So, until otherwise told not to, I'm happy to veer off on this tangent. Also, I don't know who you're talking about because I don't even remember who the poster or what the specific thread was that I saw. Now, you could show me the thread, and there's a decent chance, I'll say 'yeah! that's the thread I saw', but it would be reductive of you to not see my larger point. NeoGAF needs to get out of this mentality of using ResetEra has some kind of shorthand for regressive beliefs and keep the snide off-hand comments and keep the 'OMG! I can't believe I got banned in ResetEra for this' or 'FREE SPEECH! No way would this have been posted in ERA'. Otherwise, you can't really complain when they bite back now, can you? Conversations will be much better when those kinks have been ironed out.

Anyway, back on topic, I enjoy GiantBomb a great deal, and I regret that they're not covering the game in any capacity. I'd have loved to have heard their opinions about the game and the how they felt on the director's politics. But, I see no conspiracy to deny coverage based on Jeff's response. I take him at his word. He's always been honest and always been willing to engage the audience with his opinions on how politics can hurt/help gaming culture at large.

 

[autoduelist]

If James Rolfe Jeff Gerstmann didn't want to drive attention to the fact that he wasn't interested in reviewing Ghostbusters Kingdom Come Deliverance, he would've kept his mouth shut and never mentioned it at all.

Wasn't he directly asked? Besides, there's a huge difference there - one is a random game, the other is a reboot of a cherished franchise. IGoing out of your way to say you're not going to review some random sci-movie is far different than going out of your way to say you're not reviewing, say, a complete reboot of Star Wars.

 

[plasmawave]

It's their website so I don't see the issue. Tho I think they should at least be honest and say it's because of Vala (sp?)'s political view that makes them not wanting to cover it.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

it is clear to see that you consider "Gamer Gate" and anything related to it in a bad light. So please tell me how many ways one is supposed to take your quote:

It is quite difficult to read this as anything other than you insulting the current community. You are, in your words "shouting down different viewpoints". Most folk here are having a discussion, one that some agree with and some disagree with. It is perfectly fine to think Jeff may be doing this for political reasons. It is perfectly fine to say that you do not care for Jeff or GB. It is perfectly fine to say that Jeff is not reviewing this because it simply doesn't interest him. Different people will have different opinions, which is clearly shown in this thread. What people don't care for is when others, such as yourself and KevinKeene, come in and blame/insult an entire community to get a rise out of people or to shut down conversation.

I decided to check GAF after not visiting for a few months and saw far more people here dealing in conspiracy theories and being convinced that Jeff has ulterior motives or isn't being true with his reasoning or otherwise just disparaging him and GB in general than those that looked to be in here for any kind of discussion. This was the thread I happened to click on and seeing this kind of behavior in the majority of the posters in this thread and others led me to post that comment. I wasn't insulting the entire community here, unless the entire community identifies with gamergate and the kind of behavior I was referring to when I made the comment.

And yes, I absolutely consider gamergate in a very bad light. I believe it was a movement full of very mean spirited individuals whose priority was to lash out against social equality and make sure that certain segments of the population were kept in their place.

Yes, they are talking about the game in some positive ways with a major asterisk behind that. - for if you dare mention anything positive about Vavre then prepare to be banned. This is what I believe Keene and others have been referring to with their distaste for ResetEra's admin/moderation practices.

People can disagree with the moderation policy all they want. You're not representing that entirely accurately, though. The post you showed clearly says "nonspecific praise," so it's not "dare mention anything." People have defended his arguments about the lack of non-whites in Prague at the time and are certainly not getting banned. Regardless, the important thing is that plenty of people are very much discussing the game itself.

What's wrong with people in this topic having a different opinion than Jeff? Because that's essentially what you've been complaining about. If Jeff can call other people's views shitty, other people can call his views shitty too.

Nothing is wrong with people simply having a different opinion on the matter than Jeff. You can call his views shitty all you want, but that sure would be ridiculous in this situation.

 

[Kadayi]

decided to check GAF after not visiting for a few months and saw far more people here dealing in conspiracy theories and being convinced that Jeff has ulterior motives or isn't being true with his reasoning or otherwise just disparaging him and GB in general than those that looked to be in here for any kind of discussion. This was the thread I happened to click on and seeing this kind of behavior in the majority of the posters in this thread and others led me to post that comment. I wasn't insulting the entire community here, unless the entire community identifies with gamergate and the kind of behavior I was referring to when I made the comment.

Hmm...

It's really sad to see this place turn into Gamergate Central considering the history here. You all must feel like you've stormed and taken over an enemy castle or something.

So let get this straight you're not slandering the community, you're just slandering anyone who identifies with it correct? Because anyone who does is clearly a gamergater/gamergator? Right?

People can disagree with the moderation policy all they want. You're not representing that entirely accurately, though. The post you showed clearly says "nonspecific praise," so it's not "dare mention anything." People have defended his arguments about the lack of non-whites in Prague at the time and are certainly not getting banned. Regardless, the important thing is that plenty of people are very much discussing the game itself..

If you can't see how a moderator basically saying unequivocally 'This person is an X and if you agree with him so are you ' and shutting down any debate on the subject is an anathema to a great many people here on a point of principle, you haven't really been paying attention to what happened on this forum over the last few years. It's easy I guess to brush off these sort of dictates when you agree with them, but to some of us, principles override personal opinion.

 

[strange headache]

Nothing is wrong with people simply having a different opinion on the matter than Jeff. You can call his views shitty all you want, but that sure would be ridiculous in this situation.

If you can't even see the hypocrisy in your own words, there's no point talking to you I'm afraid. Apart from your insults and generalizations, there's not much of an argument to pick apart anyway. If that's the level of deliberative prowess that's cultivated in your little outrage bubbles, no wonder your arguments aren't up to par. Unfortunately the discussions here are not excessively framed beforehand, so you may actually find the need to tickle that brain of yours and back up your claims. If not, you go ahead trying to silence people by self-righteously vilifying and dehumanizing them, you seem to have taken a habit in that anyway.

If, after all your desperate internet prowling, a t-shirt, some tumblr historians and a couple of social-media posts is all that you can come up with so that you can stick some dirt to somebody that dared standing up to you, you're probably just butthurt and flat-out wrong. I'm pretty sure I don't even agree with some of Vávra's political views either, but these desperate attempts at a character assassination only make me want to defend that guy even more. You know why? Because I believe that people are innocent until proven guilty and even then I don't elevate myself to an arbiter of morality by trying to shame and slander them into submission only so that I can get high sniffing my own self-righteous farts.

Edit: ...oh and before I forget, judging by your insufferable attitude and tone, maybe you should start working on your own human decency and civility before arrogantly pointing fingers at other people.

 

[Scopa]

If you can't even see the hypocrisy in your own words, there's no point talking to you I'm afraid. Apart from your insults and generalizations, there's not much of an argument to pick apart anyway. If that's the level of deliberative prowess that's cultivated in your little outrage bubbles, no wonder your arguments aren't up to par. Unfortunately the discussions here are not excessively framed beforehand, so you may actually find the need to tickle that brain of yours and back up your claims. If not, you go ahead trying to silence people by self-righteously vilifying and dehumanizing them, you seem to have taken a habit in that anyway.

If, after all your desperate internet prowling, a t-shirt, some tumblr historians and a couple of social-media posts is all that you can come up with so that you can stick some dirt to somebody that dared standing up to you, you're probably just butthurt and flat-out wrong. I'm pretty sure I don't even agree with some of Vávra's political views either, but these desperate attempts at a character assassination only make me want to defend that guy even more. You know why? Because I believe that people are innocent until proven guilty and even then I don't elevate myself to an arbiter of morality by trying to shame and slander them into submission only so that I can get high sniffing my own self-righteous farts.

Fuck. I wish I could like this post twice. Well said.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If you can't even see the hypocrisy in your own words, there's no point talking to you I'm afraid.

Point out the hypocrisy, I guess, because I obviously do not see what you're seeing.

If that's the level of deliberative prowess that's cultivated in your little outrage bubbles, no wonder your arguments aren't up to par.

Don't you think that's a little rich in a thread that seems all about being outraged at Jeff and Giant Bomb for not covering their game of choice and the stated reason behind it?

Unfortunately the discussions here are not excessively framed beforehand, so you may actually find the need to tickle that brain of yours and back up your claims. If not, you go ahead trying to silence people by self-righteously vilifying and dehumanizing them, you seem to have taken a habit in that anyway.

I don't know what you're trying to say here. You want me to take a poll of the number of people who identify with GG that are actively posting here now or something?

If, after all your desperate internet prowling, a t-shirt, some tumblr historians and a couple of social-media posts is all that you can come up with so that you can stick some dirt to somebody that dared standing up to you, you're probably just butthurt and flat-out wrong.

Wait, weren't you just talking to me about insults and generalizations and hypocrisy... Are you being serious?

I'm pretty sure I don't even agree with some of Vávra's political views either, but these desperate attempts at a character assassination only make me want to defend that guy even more. You know why? Because I believe that people are innocent until proven guilty and even then I don't elevate myself to an arbiter of morality by trying to shame and slander them into submission only so that I can get high sniffing my own self-righteous farts.

I don't really know much about the guy, personally, other than some screenshots of him sharing racist shit about black people and some Breitbart articles and I guess coming out in defense of GG? I honestly haven't dug into it too much. I backed his game on Kickstarter well before any of that happened. If people don't agree with the views he has voiced publicly, and I certainly don't in regards to supporting GG, then I see no reason for them to not call them out and choose to not support his game if that's what they want to do. Maybe I've also missed what constitutes character assassination. Are people attacking him for things he did not say?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So let get this straight you're not slandering the community, you're just slandering anyone who identifies with it correct? Because anyone who does is clearly a gamergater/gamergator? Right?

Anyone who identifies with GG, which seems to be a hell of a lot of people around here these days. No idea why you would even take offense to my original post if that doesn't apply to you. Since checking this place out, I've seen similar sentiments posted by other members. Of course, they were all registered before October of 2017 and appear to be in the minority now. I said it's sad, because GAF was a bulwark against GG back when it started to spread to certain corners of the Internet.

If you can't see how a moderator basically saying unequivocally 'This person is an X and if you agree with him so are you ' and shutting down any debate on the subject is an anathema to a great many people here on a point of principle, you haven't really been paying attention to what happened on this forum over the last few years. It's easy I guess to brush off these sort of dictates when you agree with them, but to some of us, principles override personal opinion.

Taken to the extreme, in principle, no I have no issue with that, but there's obviously a lot of nuance there. Not saying this applies to Vavra, but if someone has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that they are a racist or otherwise despicable individual, then I would certainly assume that anyone who praises that person in general terms does so with the knowledge of their behavior and thus, at a minimum, is not bothered by it. That kind of person certainly wouldn't be welcome by me.

 

[camelCase]

It's definitely politics and a thinly veiled fuck-you just like everyone else is giving Vavra or whatever his name is

 

[prag16]

Anyone who identifies with GG, which seems to be a hell of a lot of people around here these days. No idea why you would even take offense to my original post if that doesn't apply to you. Since checking this place out, I've seen similar sentiments posted by other members. Of course, they were all registered before October of 2017 and appear to be in the minority now. I said it's sad, because GAF was a bulwark against GG back when it started to spread to certain corners of the Internet.



Taken to the extreme, in principle, no I have no issue with that, but there's obviously a lot of nuance there. Not saying this applies to Vavra, but if someone has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that they are a racist or otherwise despicable individual, then I would certainly assume that anyone who praises that person in general terms does so with the knowledge of their behavior and thus, at a minimum, is not bothered by it. That kind of person certainly wouldn't be welcome by me.

Too much time spent in the 2014-2017 gaf echo chamber is a hell of a drug.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Too much time spent in the 2014-2017 gaf echo chamber is a hell of a drug.

Nonsense. There was always plenty of debate and discussion on GAF from a wide variety of people since even before I joined the forum over a decade ago. Certain viewpoints definitely were shared by the majority of active posters and while those may have evolved over the years, the forum always took a stand against bigotry and mean-spirited individuals with vile agendas as far back as I can recall. If you didn't fall in those camps and weren't just a troll, you generally were welcome here and I see nothing wrong with that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume what you're implying is that it is to be part of a hivemind or echo chamber to not welcome any and all viewpoints, but I can't think of any segment of human society that actually agrees with that.

 

[prag16]

Nonsense. There was always plenty of debate and discussion on GAF from a wide variety of people since even before I joined the forum over a decade ago. Certain viewpoints definitely were shared by the majority of active posters and while those may have evolved over the years, the forum always took a stand against bigotry and mean-spirited individuals with vile agendas as far back as I can recall. If you didn't fall in those camps and weren't just a troll, you generally were welcome here and I see nothing wrong with that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume what you're implying is that it is to be part of a hivemind or echo chamber to not welcome any and all viewpoints, but I can't think of any segment of human society that actually agrees with that.

(a) Not putting up with 100% of potential viewpoints, and (b) ONLY putting up with a relatively small percentage of potential viewpoints, are two very different things. There's a lot of real estate in between. You may think oldgaf/era to be in the former bucket. I'd put them in the latter bucket.

 

[Kadayi]

Anyone who identifies with GG, which seems to be a hell of a lot of people around here these days. No idea why you would even take offense to my original post if that doesn't apply to you. Since checking this place out, I've seen similar sentiments posted by other members. Of course, they were all registered before October of 2017 and appear to be in the minority now.

So if I take offence I'm a gamergator? Right? It can't just be that I find your entire broad brushing of active posters here both old and new just plain ridiculous no? I mean have you even read the gamergate thread here? Most people are just glad to be able to talk freely about it for once. Could I do that ar ResetEra without getting dogpiled and perm banned? Based on some of the stuff I've read about the moderation at Era I somehow doubt it.

I said it's sad, because GAF was a bulwark against GG back when it started to spread to certain corners of the Internet.

Having a circle jerk and banning anyone who doesn't subscribe to the latest groupthink which resulted in GAF becoming widely regarded as a joke by large swathes of the internet was hardly fighting the good fight. Now it seems everyone is pointing the finger at Resetera from what I can tell, which means hopefully in the long term this place can get itself back to where it belongs, namely a discussion forum, where logic, reason and facts win over nonsensical horseshit that doesn't hold up to actual scrutiny.

Taken to the extreme, in principle, no I have no issue with that, but there's obviously a lot of nuance there. Not saying this applies to Vavra, but if someone has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that they are a racist or otherwise despicable individual, then I would certainly assume that anyone who praises that person in general terms does so with the knowledge of their behavior and thus, at a minimum, is not bothered by it. That kind of person certainly wouldn't be welcome by me.

So let me get this right, you're ok with blanket bans on topics/peoples, as long as they're beyond a reasonable doubt? That begs the question whose reason? I'm not convinced Varva is racist beyond a reasonable doubt. I think his position on why there are no PoC in KCD is pretty sound really. The middle ages weren't now but with worst hygiene. Distances actually meant something and most people were just one bad harvest away from starvation. Sure there was trade between nations and cultures, but that was mainly restricted to Cities and ports and it wasn't as if the silk merchants in China travelled all the way to the Courts of Europe to sell their wares directly. They traded to nearby neighbours who traded to their nearby neighbours and onward, each taking a cut along the road. Spices like Pepper for instance though commonplace in India were considered luxuries in Europe by the time they've travelled down the trade routes.

I digress though. I think once you put a policy in place wherein certain subjects are beyond question, then invariably more things will get added to that list and that is not a road that needs to be gone down.

 

[strange headache]

Point out the hypocrisy, I guess, because I obviously do not see what you're seeing.

Scroll up.

Don't you think that's a little rich in a thread that seems all about being outraged at Jeff and Giant Bomb for not covering their game of choice and the stated reason behind it?

There's people agreeing and there's people disagreeing. Nobody is calling for Jeff's head, nobody is up in arms, nobody is calling for action. It's what's called a healthy discussion, so calm down.

Wait, weren't you just talking to me about insults and generalizations and hypocrisy... Are you being serious?

Show some respect and be treated with respect, it's simple.

I don't really know much about the guy, personally [...] I honestly haven't dug into it too much.

Not saying this applies to Vavra, but if someone has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that they are a racist or otherwise despicable individual, then...

You're a whole lot judgmental for somebody who claims to be insufficiently informed and who likes to flipflop around a lot. You're not even conclusive yourself, so why are you so befuddled that people are discussing this?

 

[Kotzen Ducha]

Nonsense. There was always plenty of debate and discussion on GAF from a wide variety of people since even before I joined the forum over a decade ago. Certain viewpoints definitely were shared by the majority of active posters and while those may have evolved over the years, the forum always took a stand against bigotry and mean-spirited individuals with vile agendas as far back as I can recall. If you didn't fall in those camps and weren't just a troll, you generally were welcome here and I see nothing wrong with that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume what you're implying is that it is to be part of a hivemind or echo chamber to not welcome any and all viewpoints, but I can't think of any segment of human society that actually agrees with that.

I saw many unjust bans in what I call the "name and shame" era of neoGAF.
And evilore confirmed that mods like beefsoda and bishoptl went on banning sprees for posters they didn't agree with.

Naming and shaming is THE game on the internet now. I'm a liberal and I've been labeled a nazi, a conservative, a gamergater, etc... in my brief time here. Professor Bret Weinstein went through the same racket and was even called those things by now-REEEEsetera posters. He's more progressive than I am by a good amount with a track record of activism to back it up.