TheSadRanger
Banned
I know we all like to shit on TPM at times (rightfully so). But I'll always give TPM a pass for giving us Episode 1 Racer, which was an absolute amazing game.
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Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoiler discussion thread: THERE WILL BE UNMARKED SPOILERS!
- Thread starter Kimawolf
- Start date
I know we all like to shit on TPM at times (rightfully so). But I'll always give TPM a pass for giving us Episode 1 Racer, which was an absolute amazing game.
GabeARG
Member
Exactly, I don't know, but I feel that the universe from the prequels was far more rich than these two last films. And they also gave us "Star Wars Repubic Commando".
Now we can't even play a game from this films. May be a gambling game from Canto Bight.
PaulBizkit
Member
Yes, we shit on the prequels all the time (specially EP1 and 2) but those prequels expanded the universe of SW in a BIG BIG way. Even the pod races were a good addition that were also severely underdevelopped. The pod races could have been a big shady thing that supported the rising of the Empire but no, it was just an excuse for an action scene.
The prequels had, in my opinion, great world-building. And we can ALSO shit on the over-use of cgi, but cgi-generated worlds like Mustafar, Kamino and even Coruscant are way more interesting than any other world in Episode 7 (tatooine 2, a forest and some scottish islands) and episode 8 (atlantic city and iceless hoth) and sorry if you hate this opinion, but even more creative than some worlds in the original trilogy (sorry, but endor is just a forest).
It sucks so bad that TLJ wasn't as good as we expected, so much so, that now we are somewhat praising the prequels.
GabeARG
Member
TheSadRanger
Banned
Well Bespin was also a very cool, original concept. I think it's not just that TLJ that's a problem but with how the TFO came to power. When you go into the fringes of space it's supposed to be more difficult to rebuild because of being cut off from resources that the empire had, it's not supposed to be easier to rebuild. Unless, like I said earlier. They found a star forge from Kotor
Battlestar Galactica did this much better in regards to bringing back an exiled antagonistic force. Yea the Cylons can rebuild out there because they're freaking autonomous robots that don't need food or water. They also gained the upper hand through espionage and a well coordinated surgical strike on a crippled enemy.
ST fans will point to Aftermath in that it explains this, yet it still doesn't address the logistical issues of rebuilding a fleet. Star Destroyers were supposedly the most costly ship to build in the galaxy, TFO didn't have access to the shipyards anymore that built them. So no, The First Order doesn't get an infinite amount star destroyers, they don't get the star killer or the supremacy. Even for Star Wars this is ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if they show that the TFO has 5 death stars that merge together to form Voltron in episode IX at this point.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I did think it would be a cool idea though if they made it to where the decades of war have just taken it's toll and in the aftermath there's no real form of a government military. Both sides just exhaust each other, there's no Republic, Resistance, Alliance, Empire, First Order. Just a lawless galaxy with systems looking out for themselves.
WaterAstro
Member
They need to cover more backstory to address a lot of our complaints. We knew how the Empire started with 1, 2, 3. We really don't know where the First Order came from. This is going to hinge on the last movie.
pramod
Banned
Yeah, that sounds cool, in fact almost anything sounds better than what we ended up with....a rehash of the OG with a millenial emo-Vader-wannabe.....
TheSadRanger
Banned
In theory, I think Kylo Ren could work. It's just the execution of it that doesn't work for me. What they should have done was have Han die saving Kylo's life rather than dying by his own sons hands. You could have had the explosives go off or the X-Wing attack cause the starkiller base to shake and something happens with falling debris or something and Han saves Kylo while sacrificing himself.
I will give Rian Johnson some slack because he was left with a shit sandwich in that department. How do you take a character that committed patricide on the most popular Star Wars character of all time and have audiences be sympathetic towards him. It's why the whole dynamic thing with Rey doesn't work for me in TLJ. It's like "really, you want to trust this dude that killed his own father" talk about a poor judge of character.
I dunno, it's as if every major character from the OT turned out to the worst parental figure in the galaxy. Yet Rey turned out alright and she was abandoned by her parents on a desert planet as a child
TheSadRanger
Banned
Well the Aftermath novel trilogy addresses the fall of the Imperial Remnant forces and the beginning of The First Order. But the last novel in the trilogy, Aftermath: Empire's End it
with the beginning of The First Oder, basically what was left of the imperial remnants fled into Unknown Regions of space and formed The First Order. However it never really gets into what they actually did in the Unknown Regions. All we know is they build a bunch of shit but we don't know how they did it. The First Order didn't have access to the Recruiting Academies that the empire had, nor did they have access to the shipyards that built the Imperial Navy. The personnel issue is somewhat addressed with the program they had of turning orphaned children into storm troopers.
TheSadRanger
Banned
They're alright if your into Star Wars EU books. I will say though that if you want a good read get Ahsoka, it's freaking great. I haven't finished it though because I haven't seen the last two seasons of Clone Wars and to finish em up on Netflix at some point.
But yeah, get Ahsoka if you haven't yet.
I don't get why so many people ignore that almost every Jedi training we've seen it's using physical and mental exercises.
The movie establishes that you need both of these components to learn. If it was just belief, those younglings would be the bestest ever, because they'd be full blown in their belief and its use.
With Obi Wan, the lightsaber practice also goes into the mental by making him try and predict where the laser will come
When Yoda told Luke that he can only do it and not "try" its after he spent so much time doing all those jedi flips, running around, and climbing with Yoda on his back. We see him doing mental stuff with the Dark Cave, but again, both physical and mental. Same with him lifting rocks and other things all at once. And supposedly, he spent months on Yoda's planet. So when Yoda told him there's "no try" it's because he reached the point in the intense training where he should be able to do that.
Nothing in the movies shows us that it's just believing in yourself. Everything we've seen required training.
PaulBizkit
Member
This is true. Once you have trained enough to have the mental capacity to use the force, THEN you can focus and use it. I always thought the "physical" training was just to help clear the mind, that why yoda says "... not this crude matter" in his monologue.
I took my 5-year old to Last Jedi. We went with her grandad too. That's one memory she'll have - her first Star Wars movie at the theatres, three generations enjoying it!
But yeah, she remembers things like the porgs and the care takers. Kylo killing snoke. Don't know how much of an honest answer I can get from her, but she likes Last Jedi more than Force Awakens.
andythinkpad
Member
They have the same level of meh-ness in my mouth. But keep in mind the prequels only make Dark Vader a lame character; the sequels make both Han Solo and Luck losers and douchebags.
Geki-D
Banned
I could forgive that with the Empire; they ran the show, so you could assume they just had a load of factories setup over the past 20 years. But with FO it really doesn't make much sense, but then in this movie we learn that they apparently buy them off of third party arms deals...? That just makes less sense.
WaterAstro
Member
Ah, there are books. Sounds like Rebellion didn't finish the job, but how Snoke came about is a mystery, I guess. Empire need a sith lord to lead them, or Grand Admiral Thrawn.
Damn, I wish Thrawn was in the lore.
Grinchy
Banned
I kept seeing talk about how the prequels fared better after this terrible movie. I started believing it. I went back and watched The Phantom Menace, and fuck no, it is not even in the same league as this awful movie. TPM was shockingly bad. I went in with low expectations and it still surprised me how poor it was.
The Last Jedi made some really stupid decisions, and it sucks as both a general movie and a Star Wars movie, but TPM is like some rich amateur put his own money into an overproduced turd.
The Last Jedi made some really stupid decisions, and it sucks as both a general movie and a Star Wars movie, but TPM is like some rich amateur put his own money into an overproduced turd.
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TPM didn't bore me.
TLJ made me want to leave the theater from how boring it was and how stupid the characters acted.
I keep mentioning this eveytime, but this is the only spaceship movie that has ever done a space battle that i would call bad. TWO of them actually. Completely one sided and you can tell when the plot armor was suddenly engaged. It's like having two hands swooshing the spaceships around for an action scenes in a movie. Distracting and awful.
TPM had better characters. Better action scenes. Better designs. Better settings.
NEW everything, not just a bunch of "homages," making me feel like i already watched it before, adding to my want to leave, because they didn't even do it better or different enough.
Mortal Kombat 2 is the only other movie I ever watched that made me want to leave. I did not leave TLJ, because i kept hoping it would get better.
It didn't.
generaldane
Member
I agree in fact the only Star Wars movie I think was more boring was AOTC, I can enjoy a bad movie if its at least entertaining but holyshit was Last Jedi boring
Vicetrailia
Member
I finally saw it yesterday, and I thought that it was pretty good even though the events themselves were boring as fuck. Luke disappearing at the end was so cheesy though, and Yoda wasn't well done.
Everything that was supposed to be lighthearted/make us laughed sucked ass, I hate those Hollywood jabs.
They really relied on the lure and threat of the darkside to make this movie even remotely interesting. The plot just sucked, and the side mission was in fact pointless. Hell, the chasing was stupid itself. Okay, now I'm starting to hate the movie now that I am thinking about it more.
Everything that was supposed to be lighthearted/make us laughed sucked ass, I hate those Hollywood jabs.
They really relied on the lure and threat of the darkside to make this movie even remotely interesting. The plot just sucked, and the side mission was in fact pointless. Hell, the chasing was stupid itself. Okay, now I'm starting to hate the movie now that I am thinking about it more.
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TheSadRanger
Banned
credit to /r/prequelmemes for still giving us some quality stuff
Bolivar687
Banned
Different strokes. Just saw it myself and I think it's way better than the sequels and even Return of the Jedi. It's awesome seeing the Republic in its golden age, the Jedi in their prime, and having Darth Sidious/Palpatine as a core character, watching him operate. Maul is a more iconic villain than anything in the sequels, including Kylo Ren. The soundtrack was amazing and everything is new. You can't even really make games or anything out of the sequels because they're all so derivative.
Man, i would not even call AotC boring.
It's definitely higher quailty in terms of any hollywood summer blockbuster film like Transformers and TFA.
It's full of cheese, but it was never boring. The Jango Fett fight, the Jango Fett jetfighter battle, the exploration and chase through Coruscant, the arena battle, that entire invasion of the termite people's planet. The lightsaber battles (wasn't really bothered by Yoda's lightsaber fight and at the three showings i went to only one group luahged). Even the motivations of the characters were sincere and believable, albeit through corny dialogue.
Everything about the prequels was eye candy, so it's almost impossible to not find it interesting during a viewing.
llien
Member
Wait, when did Rey do that? I only recall Kylo and from his POV they are nobody.
GabeARG
Member
I don't know, but I have the feeling that when George Lucas made the prequels, at least he cared about the characters. I almost cry when they killed Qui Gon, and he was in only 1 movie and was never even mentioned before.
But now, it's like, "we are going to try to kill all the characters, (but we are not) and also we are going to make fun of them" (Finn, Rose, Hux, Phasma).
Don't know, I rewatched the prequels after watching TFA for the first time and then after TLJ, and I think "Man, ROTS was good".
But now, it's like, "we are going to try to kill all the characters, (but we are not) and also we are going to make fun of them" (Finn, Rose, Hux, Phasma).
Don't know, I rewatched the prequels after watching TFA for the first time and then after TLJ, and I think "Man, ROTS was good".
woodtock
Banned
I'm still wondering how the hell did Snoke turn Kylo ren to the darkside. Han Solo got killed disgracefully (but that's because Harrison Ford was tired of playing Solo).
Grinchy
Banned
I don't know what craziness has come over me, but after watching Episode I to see how it compared to VIII, I ended up watching Episode II. I remember Episode II being so much worse than the first one, but I didn't feel that way this time.
All of the Anakin/Padme scenes are horrible and the CG is still laughable and overused, but it is a much better movie than The Phantom Menace. There's actually a story, there are some characters that seem like characters, and there's a mystery and some intrigue. It's still not a good movie, and it has plenty of problems, but it sure was better than The Phantom Menace.
All of the Anakin/Padme scenes are horrible and the CG is still laughable and overused, but it is a much better movie than The Phantom Menace. There's actually a story, there are some characters that seem like characters, and there's a mystery and some intrigue. It's still not a good movie, and it has plenty of problems, but it sure was better than The Phantom Menace.
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lifa-cobex
Member
Am I seeing positive posts about the prequels?
I have to remember why you broke up with her.
She didn't respect you or your family.
She kept making you hang out with her weird friend you were introduced to early on. Even as the years went on, he kept poping in every now and then.
She constantly wanted to forced you to have a kid in the early stage of your relationship.
She was inconsistent and kept contradicting herself.
Sure she was very pretty back in the day. But she had no real substance and she certainly hasn't aged well.
Remember how you felt towards the end? The fighting seemed effortless. The passion was dead.
I know your recent breakup was hard as she felt like a well rounded person at first. But don't go back to your ex. You can strive for better.
I have to remember why you broke up with her.
She didn't respect you or your family.
She kept making you hang out with her weird friend you were introduced to early on. Even as the years went on, he kept poping in every now and then.
She constantly wanted to forced you to have a kid in the early stage of your relationship.
She was inconsistent and kept contradicting herself.
Sure she was very pretty back in the day. But she had no real substance and she certainly hasn't aged well.
Remember how you felt towards the end? The fighting seemed effortless. The passion was dead.
I know your recent breakup was hard as she felt like a well rounded person at first. But don't go back to your ex. You can strive for better.
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Rocket Number 22
Member
lifa-cobex
Member
I hope you didn't spend too much time thinking that up because it was terrible.
I still have some alcoholic in the system to pass it off as amazing.
I'll just ignore it later.
Rocket Number 22
Member
The prequels are great stories with great characters, sadly let down by dated CGI and...uhhh rather bad dialogue, all IMO
GabeARG
Member
I really think that CGI was better in TPM than AOTC. It's really strange, but TLJ was a terrible movie and it also had horrible CGI moments (fe. Fathiers escaping).
Also, when you end watching TPM or AOTC, at least you are expecting something to happen next. Things you cared about, like:
1) ¿What is going to happen with the Jedi Order?
2) ¿ How is Anakin going to transform himself into Darth Vader?
3) ¿How Palpatine is going to become the Emperor?
4) ¿What will happen with Padme?, etc etc.
Also, when you end watching TPM or AOTC, at least you are expecting something to happen next. Things you cared about, like:
1) ¿What is going to happen with the Jedi Order?
2) ¿ How is Anakin going to transform himself into Darth Vader?
3) ¿How Palpatine is going to become the Emperor?
4) ¿What will happen with Padme?, etc etc.
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lifa-cobex
Member
We could have had this......
It's a trap.
Typhares
Member
Damn that would have been an epic ending!
And even quite smart showing the new TFA power that Kylo demonstrated to stop blaster bolts but way more powerful.
lifa-cobex
Member
You see it's like poetry. It rhymes.
gioGAF
Member
That was great! Much better than the turd sandwich we actually got. Still so sad about Ackbar, what a waste :-(
Unfortunately, this has reminded of how much I hate what Disney/RJ have done here all over again. smh
prag16
Banned
Holy shit. That was incredible. Both as satire and as... kind of a better story than the real TLJ had...
... I still like the movie overall.. But so many questionable decisions.
lifa-cobex
Member
Rocket Number 22
Member
If Rian still gets his trilogy...
lifa-cobex
Member
If Rian still gets his trilogy...
oh god yea...
rokkerkory
Member
Man this movie came out just a few months ago? Kinda forgot about it already
Denton
Member
It is interesting, I grew up on Star Wars, love it, love the games, loved even the prequel trilogy (I was 12 when TPM came out, sue me). I still somewhat enjoyed Force Awakens although it raised some eyebrows (did it really have to copy OT so much?!), but Last Jedi managed to completely kill my interest in the franchise as driven by Disney. Solo will be the first Star Wars film made during my lifetime that I will not be seeing in cinemas, and that is kinda sad, but I really abhor the idea of giving them anymore of my money for this.
OH-MyCar
Member
Same here; I was one of those dorks that camped out for TPM (and haven’t missed a Star Wars on day 1 since the OT re-release). I’ve built my own fancy lightsaber. I still have the Ewoks movies taped from television. I’ve seen every episode of The Clone Wars... the list of shame goes on.
I enjoyed TFA more than most fans, but after TLJ? I’m out. It’s not that hyperbolic, fanboy type of “I’m out”, because I didn’t even pull that on AotC. I’m genuinely out. With TLJ and all of the semi-mandatory (mostly garbage) books, it’s clear that Disney is missing the point on a very fundamental level. Star Wars was the poor man’s Iliad, Beowulf or LotR; it was silly Buck Rogers cheese, but with a strong foundation in all of these literary masterpieces and archetypes. Now Star Wars is the poor man’s Avengers. Beyond aesthetics it doesn’t offer anything that a Marvel property doesn’t.
KevinKeene
Banned
I recently got to see it. Honesty, Last Jedi is so bad I don't want to talk about it. While watching, I could have complained and made fun of every other scene - that's how bad it was.
Maybe the 2 worst scenes (ignoring Mary Sue Rey):
- Leia's space scene (who at LucasArts thought that'd be okay? Director deserves being fired for that scene alone)
- when that pink haired female commander just wouldn't tell the hero group her plans - IT WOULD HAVE SOLVED EVERYTHING AND SHE WOULDN"T HAVE DIED. Speaking of which: they really couldnt leave a droid to handle the ship for its suicide warp jump? Sigh
I need to stop. Could complain like that for hours.
This movie really soured the franchise for me. I didn't like Force Awakens much, but Last Jedi is pure trash. And whoever thinks this new trilogy is better than (or even on par with) the prequel trilogy ... well, disagree much ad infinitum.
Really disappointing.
Maybe the 2 worst scenes (ignoring Mary Sue Rey):
- Leia's space scene (who at LucasArts thought that'd be okay? Director deserves being fired for that scene alone)
- when that pink haired female commander just wouldn't tell the hero group her plans - IT WOULD HAVE SOLVED EVERYTHING AND SHE WOULDN"T HAVE DIED. Speaking of which: they really couldnt leave a droid to handle the ship for its suicide warp jump? Sigh
I need to stop. Could complain like that for hours.
This movie really soured the franchise for me. I didn't like Force Awakens much, but Last Jedi is pure trash. And whoever thinks this new trilogy is better than (or even on par with) the prequel trilogy ... well, disagree much ad infinitum.
Really disappointing.