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Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoiler discussion thread: THERE WILL BE UNMARKED SPOILERS!

MoFuzz

Member
Man this movie came out just a few months ago? Kinda forgot about it already
Traumatic events often result in repressed memory later on, as a means of coping with the stress and harm. I'm speaking as if I know you intimately, of course.

Sadly, I haven't been able to wipe the stink of this from my brain just yet.
 

prag16

Banned
The novelization came in the mail yesterday. I'll crack it open within the next few days.

And semi-related, big surprise.. it's still basically not allowed in the Star Wars OT on a certain site, to say anything negative about TLJ. -_-
 
The novelization came in the mail yesterday. I'll crack it open within the next few days.

And semi-related, big surprise.. it's still basically not allowed in the Star Wars OT on a certain site, to say anything negative about TLJ. -_-

I skipped the book due to the movie being bad, please do give your impressions
 

Dubloon7

Banned
Maybe the 2 worst scenes (ignoring Mary Sue Rey):

- Leia's space scene (who at LucasArts thought that'd be okay? Director deserves being fired for that scene alone)
- when that pink haired female commander just wouldn't tell the hero group her plans - IT WOULD HAVE SOLVED EVERYTHING AND SHE WOULDN"T HAVE DIED. Speaking of which: they really couldnt leave a droid to handle the ship for its suicide warp jump? Sigh

1. Agreed
2. in reaility: for all military roles, commanding officers do not tell pawns the outright secret plans.
 

KevinKeene

Banned
2. in reaility: for all military roles, commanding officers do not tell pawns the outright secret plans.

Maybe in reality. This is Star Wars. And she had no plan. "Let's just keep on trucking until we run out of gas and die". That's when you start grasping straws - which no previous movie would have handled differently.

What a bad movie.
 

OH-MyCar

Member
And semi-related, big surprise.. it's still basically not allowed in the Star Wars OT on a certain site, to say anything negative about TLJ. -_-

If we're talking about the same site, the disparity between how people talk about TLJ in its own little ecosystem compared to everywhere else on the site is just crazy. They're playing pillow forts with Finn & Rose and it's violence and chaos everywhere else.
 

buizel

Banned
1. Agreed
2. in reaility: for all military roles, commanding officers do not tell pawns the outright secret plans.

Yeah, but Damaron isn't a pawn. He's been in multiple comics where his arc has been not to be such a hot head, and he is the commander. Pretty respected and high up, and also one of the main characters. Aaand apparently he has a great relationship with Leia, so you'd assume she'd tell him (or at least Laura Dern would respect Leias trusted friend)?

Anyway, those are such minor gripes with the film. Same with floating Leia. The actual problems are structure and pacing I think, mainly with Finns side mission being irrelevant and taking up time, and the fact our main heroine really has no challenges to overcome.
 
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Kadayi

Banned


Well if that was the case I guess it vindicates Abrams to some degree in that he at least had an arc in mind, but at the same time given he was on board with TLJ as a producer, why the F he'd let Johnson just burn the house down is frankly bizarre. This whole thing really does have shades of Mass Effect where the original writer had a clear arc in mind and then the Hudson and Walters just threw it in the bin and tried to half-ass it because they thought they could make it work.
 
Well if that was the case I guess it vindicates Abrams to some degree in that he at least had an arc in mind, but at the same time given he was on board with TLJ as a producer, why the F he'd let Johnson just burn the house down is frankly bizarre.

Eh, between this, LOST and Cloverfield, I'm pretty sure JJ is an elaborate troll who takes intense pleasure in f*cking with his audience. Quite frankly, I don't care anymore because his whole shtick basically boils down to be as absurd as possible just so that people talk about his stuff.
 

ChrisDude

Member
Maybe in reality. This is Star Wars. And she had no plan. "Let's just keep on trucking until we run out of gas and die". That's when you start grasping straws - which no previous movie would have handled differently.

What a bad movie.

Why would she tell the plan? I mean if there was a spy on board she entire plan woud have failed and the resistance would be done. Plus Poe didnt really put himself in a good light when he disobeyed orders at the start of the movie and basically sacrificed the entire bombing fleet to destroy one star destroyer.
 

KevinKeene

Banned
Why would she tell the plan? I mean if there was a spy on board she entire plan woud have failed and the resistance would be done. Plus Poe didnt really put himself in a good light when he disobeyed orders at the start of the movie and basically sacrificed the entire bombing fleet to destroy one star destroyer.

Because she had none.
 

Bluntman

Member
The novelization came in the mail yesterday. I'll crack it open within the next few days.

And semi-related, big surprise.. it's still basically not allowed in the Star Wars OT on a certain site, to say anything negative about TLJ. -_-

Yeah the disparity between .. well reality and that site is huge.
 

Bluntman

Member
Eh, between this, LOST and Cloverfield, I'm pretty sure JJ is an elaborate troll who takes intense pleasure in f*cking with his audience. Quite frankly, I don't care anymore because his whole shtick basically boils down to be as absurd as possible just so that people talk about his stuff.

Basicly Abrams (and his Lost co. like Lindelof) shouldn't write. He can direct just fine but leave the script to others ffs.
 

Denton

Member
Basicly Abrams (and his Lost co. like Lindelof) shouldn't write. He can direct just fine but leave the script to others ffs.
I hated Lindelof for what he did with last season of Lost, Prometheus etc, but he won me over with Leftovers, it was a great show with great conclusion (unlike Lost) so now I am again in "give him benefit of doubt" territory.
 

pramod

Banned
At this point the new trilogy is feeling more like a new age remake of the original trilogy...except not as interesting or exciting and not providing anything new. The prequels at least gave us Star Wars from a different story and historical perspective.
 

OH-MyCar

Member
Oh god, it could have been worse....much worse

Thats Natalie Portman Attack of the Clones level acting

@1:35



You know it's been three months and I've let those wounds heal, but wow: that's an awful scene. All of those December 14th emotions are coming back.

The "When I put a gun to your head..." bit is so incongrous with Finn that it's just amazing; It's one of the now innumerable examples of Rian Johnson wanting these moments and lines to the extent of actually bending, breaking and reshaping the characters to fit into them. I guess it was easier to intentionally turn everyone into a joke when the serious moments also feel like a joke.
 

gioGAF

Member
giphy.gif
Why would she tell the plan? I mean if there was a spy on board she entire plan woud have failed and the resistance would be done. Plus Poe didnt really put himself in a good light when he disobeyed orders at the start of the movie and basically sacrificed the entire bombing fleet to destroy one star destroyer.
The problem with this line of thinking is that the stupidity moves way beyond this.

Lets just say that Holdo did think there was a spy on board. Okay, it is understandable that she would want to keep it quiet. How would she organize the mass escape without telling anyone? What about when there are only a few ships left? Is she still afraid of the damage a spy can do when most of them are already dead? What about when the mutiny happens? Why wouldn't she say anything there? They were ruining her precious plan.

The whole thing is beyond stupid. Whenever anyone brings this whole arc up, the complete idiocy behind it comes rushing back to me:

- Poe cracking "can you hear me now jokes" while Leia is crying about the casualties. Make up your mind on the fucking tone of the movie. Are we feeling sad about the casualties of war or are we having a good time laughing at jokes? You can't have it both ways.

- Leia tells Poe to stop his attack and he gets blamed for not following orders. Fair enough. Do the bombers and other ships involved in the attack not have radios? Did they all collectively disobey a direct order from their commanding officer? Were they also subject to demotions?

- The "chase" is one of the dumbest sequences in movie history. The First Order can't catch them, can't pass them, can't penetrate their shields (even though Kylo Ren just blew up the WHOLE COMMAND BRIDGE with a tie fighter), can't surround them, can't track small ships leaving the command ship (Finn and Rose go on a round-trip Vegas vacation in the middle of the "siege"), etc.

- Holdo is taken hostage and still says nothing about her plan. Apparently she knew that the idiot mutineers would not check her for a weapon and that a conveniently placed steam-emitting pipe would soon present itself to provide her with a means of escape.

- Why does Leia shoot (stun) Poe? Is it not clear that when he sees her, he would immediately step down?

I can live with other silly stuff like Holdo inventing the use of light speed as a weapon, space ships floating backwards after losing thrust, gravity in space, the Resistance/Rebels sending Rose with Finn (why?), etc. However, I remain supremely pissed off at the sendoff given to Admiral Ackbar, fuck you Rian Johnson!
 
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NickFire

Member
I still cannot get over how badly they ruined Luke. And as for the franchise overall, including books, Disney seems almost desperate to distance themselves from focusing on Jedi and everything one would expect from Jedi (including basic training). I just don't understand it. It's clear as day there are political undertones driving the ship, but none of that explains to me how they lost focus of what made the franchise so popular. Would it really have been that bad to have Luke actually train Ray, and perhaps die in actual combat (or not die) than by stroking out after playing a Jedi mind trick?????
 

CoolNameGuy91

Neo Member
Am I the only person that thinks that Last Jedi had by far the best Luke? A bitter, broken, dramatic man that can't handle failure in a fashion that isn't dramatic. It sounds both like Luke and a Skywalker.
 

It's Jeff

Banned
This is the first time I can say that I'm not interested in wherever Star Wars is headed next. Our new characters don't have anything interesting going on and our old characters... everything hinges on a powerhouse performance from 3P0 because everybody else is done.

Murder his nephew in his sleep, indeed. Shame on you, Last Jedi. Go to your room and don't come back until you're ready to apologize.
 

Grinchy

Banned
I was already kinda done with the idea of paying to see any more of these Star Wars movies. Then, JJ Abrams said that anyone who didn't like TLJ was threatened by women. Now I'm definitely done contributing any more money to any other Star Wars product.
 

buizel

Banned
I was already kinda done with the idea of paying to see any more of these Star Wars movies. Then, JJ Abrams said that anyone who didn't like TLJ was threatened by women. Now I'm definitely done contributing any more money to any other Star Wars product.

.... what? That cant be true. KKKennedy is getting to him.
 

prag16

Banned
I was already kinda done with the idea of paying to see any more of these Star Wars movies. Then, JJ Abrams said that anyone who didn't like TLJ was threatened by women. Now I'm definitely done contributing any more money to any other Star Wars product.
Is J.J. Abrams secretly Bobby Roberts? Never seen them both in the same place at the same time.
 

Bryank75

Banned
1. Agreed
2. in reaility: for all military roles, commanding officers do not tell pawns the outright secret plans.

In officer training we were always told to gather your soldiers and explain the goal and how you planned to achieve it, clearly and concisely. Then you were expected to lead from the front or close to it. You were meant to be technically better at everything to be a role-model although your sergeant will be the most experienced. You always listen to your sergeant. That's why this film was incredibly grating for me to watch.
 

OH-MyCar

Member
In officer training we were always told to gather your soldiers and explain the goal and how you planned to achieve it, clearly and concisely. Then you were expected to lead from the front or close to it. You were meant to be technically better at everything to be a role-model although your sergeant will be the most experienced. You always listen to your sergeant. That's why this film was incredibly grating for me to watch.

You can tell the film has next to no empathy or interest in actual soldiers due to how dumb and confused its pacifist message is. By the end of the film they define the Reb... Resistance as somehow being morally superior than what they're fighting because Luke & Finn figure out the wonders of non-violent resistance. Granted, Vice-Admiral Strong Woman™ kamikazed into an entire fleet and she's a hero, but...

It'll be interesting if they run with the non-violent theme in the following movies. If so, five years from now we'll see Jedi bending bars around the Sith, pulling rugs out from under them and stuffing them in barrels. Self-sacrifice? We've gotta sell toys.
 
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kunonabi

Member
You can tell the film has next to no empathy or interest in actual soldiers due to how dumb and confused its pacifist message is. By the end of the film they define the Reb... Resistance as somehow being morally superior than what they're fighting because Luke & Finn figure out the wonders of non-violent resistance. Granted, Vice-Admiral Strong Woman™ kamikazed into an entire fleet and she's a hero, but...

It'll be interesting if they run with the non-violent theme in the following movies. If so, five years from now we'll see Jedi bending bars around the Sith, pulling rugs out from under them and stuffing them in barrels. Self-sacrifice? We've gotta sell toys.

The sad thing is Finn being a pacifist and rejecting both the rebels and the Empire could have made a great angle to take into episode 9. Especially if he took umbrage at force users trying to shape things themselves again. That could have gone some very interesting places considering how much the jedi/sith have influenced the galaxy throughout the original six films. The normies standing up and controlling their own destiny would have been great to see.
 

Geki-D

Banned
In officer training we were always told to gather your soldiers and explain the goal and how you planned to achieve it, clearly and concisely. Then you were expected to lead from the front or close to it. You were meant to be technically better at everything to be a role-model although your sergeant will be the most experienced. You always listen to your sergeant. That's why this film was incredibly grating for me to watch.
The plot could have fixed this by having the higher-ups believe that there's a spy on board and they need to keep hush hush on their plans. Like, Fin, Rose & Poe could have thought it was the Empire tracking them through warp so they go and sort that out behind their superiors backs knowing they refuse to believe that, convinced there's a spy. I think normally when the enemy just shows up without any possible explanation you generally assume someone on your ship has planted a tracker or is informing the enemy of your position but instead someone says "I think they're managing to track us through warp" and everyone is like "That's impossible!" but then ten seconds later they're like "But hey I guess so!" and, and... It just makes no fucking sense...

I honestly thought that older sour-faced lady as going to turn out to be a spy, then I thought Admiral Pink-hair was. Instead everyone on the rebel's side is just a perfect picture of honesty and noble values.
 
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OH-MyCar

Member
The sad thing is Finn being a pacifist and rejecting both the rebels and the Empire could have made a great angle to take into episode 9. Especially if he took umbrage at force users trying to shape things themselves again. That could have gone some very interesting places considering how much the jedi/sith have influenced the galaxy throughout the original six films. The normies standing up and controlling their own destiny would have been great to see.

Agreed, and that would have been a “brave subversion” of what we knew. A lot of people have the habit of instantaneously awarding merit to something that upsets fanboys and bucks conventions, but TLJ proved you can do that and still release something that is completely flaccid and noncommittal. It was like a cartoon where things happen and reset by the end of an episode.

I would have been counting the days until Episode 9 if TLJ made choices like the one you mentioned.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I usually enjoy deconstructing a film through criticism, especially if I strongly like or dislike it, and thought I'd have a lot to say after coming out of the theater since TLJ is rife with problems and failures throughout, but by the end credits I simply didn't care about Star Wars anymore. It's such a shame. TFA washed away a lot of my cynicism about the franchise, and I have several posts on gaf speculating about the trilogy's plot and nerding out about Finn and Rey and Kylo before and after the first one.

TLJ doesn't subvert, it breaks.
 

Bryank75

Banned
I usually enjoy deconstructing a film through criticism, especially if I strongly like or dislike it, and thought I'd have a lot to say after coming out of the theater since TLJ is rife with problems and failures throughout, but by the end credits I simply didn't care about Star Wars anymore. It's such a shame. TFA washed away a lot of my cynicism about the franchise, and I have several posts on gaf speculating about the trilogy's plot and nerding out about Finn and Rey and Kylo before and after the first one.

TLJ doesn't subvert, it breaks.

Completely agree, subversion just for the sake of it is so empty... if it were to serve a great overall story, I'd absolutely understand but what we got was just disappointing.
I know many didn't like the previous two films but I actually enjoyed them and gave Rey and her powers the benefit of the doubt...
 

kunonabi

Member
The unfortunate thing is a SW movie aiming to subvert expectations and deconstruct the franchise isn't that bad an idea coming off TFA really. TFA was a movie that reveled in superficial nostalgia and just parading out the "things" that kind of define SW at a base level. It was a nice sugar rush but it was ultimately vapid and just doesn't stick with you after the credits roll. TLJ cutting through all the SW trappings to bring out the core essence and emotions that make SW so special would be a nice way to get the series to a place where you could do a really forward thinking and fresh episode 9. Instead it was just "lol, nerds", terrible plotting and wasting pretty much every character except Kylo. Well, up until him taking over the first order anyway.
 

prag16

Banned
I usually enjoy deconstructing a film through criticism, especially if I strongly like or dislike it, and thought I'd have a lot to say after coming out of the theater since TLJ is rife with problems and failures throughout, but by the end credits I simply didn't care about Star Wars anymore. It's such a shame. TFA washed away a lot of my cynicism about the franchise, and I have several posts on gaf speculating about the trilogy's plot and nerding out about Finn and Rey and Kylo before and after the first one.

TLJ doesn't subvert, it breaks.
Yeah.. I still liked the movie. And I still care about Star Wars.

But.

My hype level for 9 is basically zero. TLJ retroactively made TFA worse. Rogue One is the best 'new' SW movie.

Just so many baffling decisions. I definitely agree that they broke Star Wars. It can still be worthwhile, but I feel like it's kind of not Star Wars anymore.

I thought I'd roll my eyes at the idea that non-Lucas Star Wars would be fan fiction. Well.. If the shoe fits..

Haven't started the novelization yet. This weekend probably.
 
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It's Jeff

Banned
In all fairness, if this movie followed through on the interesting subversions, I would be excited. Rey and Kylo in a new direction without this Empire and Rebellion business, but no. Back to the same old story but everybody's character is now used up and worthless.

I mean, it does make a difference now that a bowling ball at hyperspace is now the galaxy's deadliest weapon. Sure looked cool, but doesn't do the story any favors.

I just... struggle to see what people liked about this movie.
 

CoolNameGuy91

Neo Member
Yeah.. I still liked the movie. And I still care about Star Wars.

But.

My hype level for 9 is basically zero. TLJ retroactively made TFA worse. Rogue One is the best 'new' SW movie.

Just so many baffling decisions. I definitely agree that they broke Star Wars. It can still be worthwhile, but I feel like it's kind of not Star Wars anymore.

I thought I'd roll my eyes at the idea that non-Lucas Star Wars would be fan fiction. Well.. If the shoe fits..

Haven't started the novelization yet. This weekend probably.
If Rogue One had been a numbered movie it would have annihilated all my hype from TRA. Like, Episode II was more interesting. I know that it's not the topic, but the fact that Last Jedi can be bashed so hard while Rogue one is generally considered good baffles me
 

kunonabi

Member
If Rogue One had been a numbered movie it would have annihilated all my hype from TRA. Like, Episode II was more interesting. I know that it's not the topic, but the fact that Last Jedi can be bashed so hard while Rogue one is generally considered good baffles me

Yeah, i really dont get the pass rogue one gets. It's still the worst SW movie as far as I'm concerned.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
I can turn off my brain and enjoy the costumes and set pieces of Rogue One. It doesn't intentionally go as far out of its way as possible to ruin the characters it brings back like Mon Mothma or Tarkin. It has nice little nods to both the prequels and the OT, whereas the Last Jedi just get so much about both trilogies so bafflingly wrong.
 

CoolNameGuy91

Neo Member
I can turn off my brain and enjoy the costumes and set pieces of Rogue One. It doesn't intentionally go as far out of its way as possible to ruin the characters it brings back like Mon Mothma or Tarkin. It has nice little nods to both the prequels and the OT, whereas the Last Jedi just get so much about both trilogies so bafflingly wrong.
I've seen it once, so I can't act like it gets nothing wrong, but that seems to be overblown to me. Rogue One is a meandering mess, whereas entertaining and compelling moments are allowed in Last Jedi, as well as acting happening. The Snoke sequence, the first 20 minutes, the last 20 minutes, every scene Luke is in, it's far from a cohesive masterpiece, but at least it felt like everyone involved wanted to be there
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
I'll throw my hat in the ring.

I have to agree that Rouge One is the only one of the new movies that I didn't walk out completely baffled by how bad it was.

Rouge One has some huge issues that really bugged me but it felt like a movie that was part of the universe. It didn't feel completely vapid of what it was trying to represent unlike TFA and TLJ.

When TFA came out I got lamabsted by my circle of friends for saying it was bad.

They all just kept saying it's a set up" movie.

Then TLJ hit and I felt vindicated but also entirely crushed that I couldn't care any less about Star Wars.

TLJ is a Trainwreck from every perspective. Even if you removed the "star wars" out of TLJ it's still a mess from every angle. The characters suck. The plot is boring. And it felt like Rian Johnson was determined to do the opposite of what everybody thought to "take risks."

Leia freaking flew through space. That ACTUALLY happened. That scene is proof Rian Johnson and his team have no clue or reguard to what Star Wars is.

They made a Marvel version of Star Wars. And its depressing.
 
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pramod

Banned
The Snoke sequence, the first 20 minutes, the last 20 minutes, every scene Luke is in, it's far from a cohesive masterpiece, but at least it felt like everyone involved wanted to be there

Well I agree...I felt like they wanted to tell a good story with Rey, Kylo, Snoke and Luke but had absolutely no idea what to do with Finn and to a lesser extent, Poe. So you end up with a few good Kylo/Luke/Snoke scenes and the other half the movie is an incoherent, boring, mess. A movie with some good scenes and some horrible is still overall a bad movie.

Oh and the space battles sucked. At least Rogue One got that right.
 

Jezan

Member
Oh god, it could have been worse....much worse

Thats Natalie Portman Attack of the Clones level acting

@1:35


Wow, that was shit better to be removed, altough it finally shows a little bit of why Phasma is supposedly a badass, she shot first...killing 5(?) soldiers .
 

KevinKeene

Banned
Leia flying through space is still the dumbest thing to have ever happened in a Star Wars movie... possibly in any movie ever.

I mean, what movie has a more out of place scene? Raptors trading eggs witj human beings in Jurassic Park 3 was pretty dumb, but stilll' less offensive.
 
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