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[TheMikado]

it makes sense if the CPU is once again riding in the backseat.

No, it doesn't because its an apu, it would cost more to build a sub Zen chip with Navi graphics than it would to take an off the shelf part in current production. From a sheer cost standpoint it makes no sense.

Put it this way, it like building a motherboard specifically to pair an I5 with DDR2 RAM. It would cost more to produce then any cost savings you would hope to achieve.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Why would you have concerns about Zen based APU's CPU perf?

I don't, I was saying in comparison to the Ps4.

 

[AnimalFather]

No, it doesn't because its an apu, it would cost more to build a sub Zen chip with Navi graphics than it would to take an off the shelf part in current production. From a sheer cost standpoint it makes no sense.

Put it this way, it like building a motherboard specifically to pair an I5 with DDR2 RAM. It would cost more to produce then any cost savings you would hope to achieve.

well then im not sure what "not simply zen based" means.

 

[daibaron]

A game from a sony 1st party developed for the ps4pro as the lowest denominator would be a jump from base ps4. Even more for the x1x.

PS5 with 10-12tflops with games developed specifically for it will look amazing from the beginning. Look at killzone shadowfall or even ryse.

 

[TheMikado]

well then im not sure what "not simply zen based" means.

If I had to guess, it means it will come in at one of their intermediate steps. Because we know the Zen 2 design is complete, they could be using anything from a Zen+ to an intermediate step between Zen 2 and 3. Zen 2+ seems more likely in my opinion because the full Zen 3 track should be out by 2020.

So I would say it would be closer to a Zen+ or a Zen 2+

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

This year lol, even next year is a stretch.

What are all the 3rd parties going to do. Drop the 100 million+ install base and start making their games for 3 million PS5 owners instead?

 

[nowhat]

A game from a sony 1st party developed for the ps4pro as the lowest denominator would be a jump from base ps4.

Sure. But - as of now (or the latest figures I've seen, perhaps it's more at the moment) 20% of PS4s sold is a Pro. That means that of the 75M out there, not that many are Pros. Having a mid-gen refresh is controversial enough, alienating your user base by having Pro-only games would be beyond stupid. Sony can make some bone-headed business decisions for sure, but I don't think they're that dense.

Now come PS5, I could maybe see a game being supported on PS5 and Pro but not a base PS4, but I don't think that's very likely either. For better or worse, Sony seems to firmly believe in console generations (even if the mid-gen refresh that is Pro muddles things a bit).

 

[Codes 208]

This year lol, even next year is a stretch.

What are all the 3rd parties going to do. Drop the 100 million+ install base and start making their games for 3 million PS5 owners instead?

How does any new gen work? How do you think 3rd party devs felt when coming into this gen when last gen accumulated around 260mil around launch of this one?
The answer is no. Devs will still be focused on this gen and for atleast another year as they slowly shift into the new gen.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

How does any new gen work? How do you think 3rd party devs felt when coming into this gen when last gen accumulated around 260mil around launch of this one?
The answer is no. Devs will still be focused on this gen and for atleast another year as they slowly shift into the new gen.

It works by starting the new generation when the current one has been saturated, and large numbers of people are ready to move on. I don't see that being the case next year and certainly not this year.

In 2013 both MS and Sony were ready and they sold what 30 million consoles between them in the first year. There's still LOADS of game sales and potential left in the current 4 consoles and no way can 3rd parties ignore them. So at best a potential PS5 would just get an 'enhanced port' for a couple of years. Multiplat publishers aren't going to build their game around it.

Again, what's the point. It would basically be a PS4 Pro Pro for the first 2 - 3 years, barring a few exclusives from Sony here and there. It doesn't make sense to do it yet.

 

[TheMikado]

This year lol, even next year is a stretch.

What are all the 3rd parties going to do. Drop the 100 million+ install base and start making their games for 3 million PS5 owners instead?

You’re kidding right? Do PC game makers stop making games for older GPUs when a new graphics card comes out?

Did they stop when the pro and x came out?

 

[Bolivar687]

You’re kidding right? Do PC game makers stop making games for older GPUs when a new graphics card comes out?

Did they stop when the pro and x came out?

And they didn't stop for the PS4 or XB1, either. Cross gen went on with the largest publishers for a very long time.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Let's not forget that cross gen development for Ps4 and Ps5 will be a lot easier than last gen (Ps3 and Ps4). I'm sure 3rd party devs can cope with that.

 

[Leocarian]

My final prediction

PS5 Tease - PSX 2018 (End of the year)
PS5 Full Reveal - E3 2019
PS5 Release - Holidays 2019

 

[rokkerkory]

I am still sticking to $400 price point with 10-11 TF GPU, Zen-lite CPU and 16 GB Ram.

 

[MaKTaiL]

No backwards compatibility, no buy. I learned my lesson.

 

[Iced Arcade]

not that I believe this but it has me hesitant on buying a PS4 pro now for sure

 

[Leocarian]

No backwards compatibility, no buy. I learned my lesson.

So your whole thing is that you have to play old games when buying a new platform? Isn't buying a new platform is the whole point to play completely brand new games? Never understand need for BC. New machines are made for new things, keep your old stuff if you wanna continue playing old library.

 

[TheMikado]

So your whole thing is that you have to play old games when buying a new platform? Isn't buying a new platform is the whole point to play completely brand new games? Never understand need for BC. New machines are made for new things, keep your old stuff if you wanna continue playing old library.

To be fair I think this line of thinking revolves around trade in value. So you can continue to play your old game library while having the physical console supplement your new console purchase.

 

[daibaron]

Sure. But - as of now (or the latest figures I've seen, perhaps it's more at the moment) 20% of PS4s sold is a Pro. That means that of the 75M out there, not that many are Pros. Having a mid-gen refresh is controversial enough, alienating your user base by having Pro-only games would be beyond stupid. Sony can make some bone-headed business decisions for sure, but I don't think they're that dense.

Now come PS5, I could maybe see a game being supported on PS5 and Pro but not a base PS4, but I don't think that's very likely either. For better or worse, Sony seems to firmly believe in console generations (even if the mid-gen refresh that is Pro muddles things a bit).

Yes, i agree with you 100%. I was just stating that if they by any reason did something like that, there would be quite a noticeable jump, even from ps4 to ps4pro. I see people speaking of 10tflops 12 tflops consoles like is nothing that special, when we are pretty much in cutting edge gpu territory, 1080ti. I am a bit sceptic.

I would have a huge erection if there was a ps5 10-11 tflops in fall 2019 for 500$! It would be a great new generation, i would even give up my plans of building a good performance gaming pc.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think anyone is ignoring that.

I think everyone was well aware that no amount of emulation or processing would suddenly make a game use to running on a 3.2 ghz processor perform well on an sub 2ghz processor.

This generation will be fantastic simply by virtue of the clockspeed changes and 7nm arc change.

Having possible 8 cores/16 threads running at 3.2+ is going to be a dream come true for most developers. And the GPU clockspeed/W/heat ratio promises to be the best we've ever seen.
The best part is that the GDDR6 RAM will be twice the bandwidth for only a 10% cost increase over current GDDR5 RAM.

What do you mean only a 10% cost increase over the current GDDR5 RAM? Could you explain this?

 

[rokkerkory]

How about Xbox 1X level gfx (plus a tad more) but 60fps thanks to zen!?! <3

 

[MaKTaiL]

So your whole thing is that you have to play old games when buying a new platform? Isn't buying a new platform is the whole point to play completely brand new games? Never understand need for BC. New machines are made for new things, keep your old stuff if you wanna continue playing old library.

This gen basically introduced MMOs and Free to Play games to consoles and a bunch of the games I play on PS4 are in that category. I have hundred of hours on Warframe and Elder Scrolls Online. I don't want to rely on the devs to release a version of these for PS5 nor do I want to spend money buying them again. PS4 to PS5 should be as natural as PS4 to PS4 Pro. Those games without patch support should just take advantage of boost mode, simple as that. If Sony doesn't add backwards compatibility then it means they are lazy ass devs.

 

[mckmas8808]

My final prediction

PS5 Tease - PSX 2018 (End of the year)
PS5 Full Reveal - E3 2019
PS5 Release - Holidays 2019

This has GOT to be true!!!!

 

[LordOfChaos]

The talk of not being off the shelf Zen 1 or 2 reminds me that the XBOX implemented DX12 driver calls in hardware to take that load off the CPU, I wonder if Sony will do that too (with GNM/GNMX instead obviously)

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

I don't see how it can possibly anything less than Zen+ paired with Navi arch. That doesn't even make sense from a manufacturing perspective.

If it's an APU, it's not an off the shelf part anyways, Zen manufacturing has no bearing on what could be in here.

 

[llien]

Now come PS5, I could maybe see a game being supported on PS5 and Pro but not a base PS4, but I don't think that's very likely either. For better or worse, Sony seems to firmly believe in console generations (even if the mid-gen refresh that is Pro muddles things a bit).

Why would Sony stick with 8 core CPUs, instead of scaling it down? (mentioned in the semiaccurate "leak")
Zen is powerful, they could go down to at least 6 if not 4 and still be much faster than PS4/Pro.
Having 8 makes porting easier.

 

[Armorian]

They can use HT so 6/12 setup is likely, I don't they will go lower.

 

[Leocarian]

This gen basically introduced MMOs and Free to Play games to consoles and a bunch of the games I play on PS4 are in that category. I have hundred of hours on Warframe and Elder Scrolls Online. I don't want to rely on the devs to release a version of these for PS5 nor do I want to spend money buying them again. PS4 to PS5 should be as natural as PS4 to PS4 Pro. Those games without patch support should just take advantage of boost mode, simple as that. If Sony doesn't add backwards compatibility then it means they are lazy ass devs.

Don't get me wrong, BC is always a plus and I see it's benefits. But in my opinion at the end of the day you buy a new console for new stuff and that's it. MS is doing BC right now because they're in last place and are trying to play the "I am a really nice guy" card to please customers because they ney have nothing really good or exclusive to offer on their platform.

 

[Lort]

So your whole thing is that you have to play old games when buying a new platform? Isn't buying a new platform is the whole point to play completely brand new games? Never understand need for BC. New machines are made for new things, keep your old stuff if you wanna continue playing old library.

What you mean like dvd players? Or mobile phones or steam or gpus?

Oh right everything else has backwards compatibility but consoles shouldnt wtf?

Don't get me wrong, BC is always a plus and I see it's benefits. But in my opinion at the end of the day you buy a new console for new stuff and that's it. MS is doing BC right now because they're in last place and are trying to play the "I am a really nice guy" card to please customers because they ney have nothing really good or exclusive to offer on their platform.

Oh is that why playstation 2 and 3 offered it?

How about Xbox 1X level gfx (plus a tad more) but 60fps thanks to zen!?! <3

Thats pretty much what the specs say!

 

[Swizzle]

Don't get me wrong, BC is always a plus and I see it's benefits. But in my opinion at the end of the day you buy a new console for new stuff and that's it. MS is doing BC right now because they're in last place and are trying to play the "I am a really nice guy" card to please customers because they ney have nothing really good or exclusive to offer on their platform.

I tend to disagree, digital distribution is a game changer and its strong presence in the market comes with strong market expectations of continuity: your digits library in a modern successful digital platform should carry over to a reasonable degree (PS20 not supporting PS4 titles might be ok ).

 

[NickFire]

Don't get me wrong, BC is always a plus and I see it's benefits. But in my opinion at the end of the day you buy a new console for new stuff and that's it. MS is doing BC right now because they're in last place and are trying to play the "I am a really nice guy" card to please customers because they ney have nothing really good or exclusive to offer on their platform.

I used to agree but over this generation I switched to almost 100% digital. If those games do not carry over into PS5, and MS continues integrating console / PC with full backwards comparability as a goal, then MS would need to really screw up their launch for me to stay with Sony once this generation ends. Sony has a lot of good will with me right now and won't lose it over rumor and conjecture, but failing to jump on board with the IOS, now Xbox, etc., view of how games should work would destroy that good will after buying into digital sales and mid-gen refreshes. At that point it would just be a business decision, and retaining value for future purchases is a big factor.

 

[Leocarian]

I tend to disagree, digital distribution is a game changer and its strong presence in the market comes with strong market expectations of continuity: your digits library in a modern successful digital platform should carry over to a reasonable degree (PS20 not supporting PS4 titles might be ok ).

In that sense yes. But it seems that Sony is getting arrogant and we all know what happend when Sony got arrogant. If BC happens on PS5 I'll be happy for those who want it but I personally don't care for it.

 

[Swizzle]

Seems we’re going to get PS5 teases all year long.




Further rumour of potential specs-





https://semiaccurate.com/2018/04/03/semiacccurate-gets-playstation-5next-details/

PS4 Pro was always quoted as Polaris based and ended up as Polaris + some Vega features. I would expect PS5 to be Navi based + some future features co-developed with Sony + some features AMD has in the pipeline for later desktop cards (thinking about the semi custom designs for PS4 and PS4 Pro) especially if Navi GPU’s are coming out this close to PS5.

 

[Swizzle]

In that sense yes. But it seems that Sony is getting arrogant and we all know what happend when Sony got arrogant. If BC happens on PS5 I'll be happy for those who want it but I personally don't care for it.

Isn’t it a bit early in the thread for the “arrogant Sony” bingo card/drive-by ?

 

[NickFire]

I really hope Sony gives us something concrete very soon - at least an assurance that all digital PS4 games will run on PS5. Until they do, I will be a lot more frugal with my purchases and will quite likely skip some games I would normally pick up. At least until after E3.

 

[TheRatedD]

I'm so excited, lol. I love it when next gen hardware rumors get started. The end of the PS4 cycle will give us great exclusives, but I'm also getting excited for stuff like maybe a Killzone 5 for PS5 to show off graphics like Shadow Fall did for the 4.

 

[TheMikado]

What do you mean only a 10% cost increase over the current GDDR5 RAM? Could you explain this?

I can find the site I read it on but this one says 20% cost increase over GDDR6 right now, but obviously long term that cost is going to drop significantly. In either case Sony would do better to put less GDDR6 ram in than more GDDR5 ram for the same price so GDDR6 is basically a certainty unless they get a great deal on GDDR5X somehow.

https://www.pcgamer.com/gddr6-memor...dia-launching-new-graphics-cards-this-summer/

 

[DavidGzz]

I wouldn't mind at all if it came this year. Would save me having to get a Pro but with GoW so close I may cave anyway since e3 is still so far away. Maybe Sony isn't happy with Pro sales and the fact that MS has the power lead, it would hurt the X sales as well this year if people know a more powerful console is coming this year. I know, it's probably not happening but I wouldn't be mad if it did.

 

[TheMikado]

The talk of not being off the shelf Zen 1 or 2 reminds me that the XBOX implemented DX12 driver calls in hardware to take that load off the CPU, I wonder if Sony will do that too (with GNM/GNMX instead obviously)

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

If it's an APU, it's not an off the shelf part anyways, Zen manufacturing has no bearing on what could be in here.

How is it being an APU mean it’s not off the shelf? AMD already sells off the shelf APUs. How would it have no bearing? What would they gain from trying to force an older arc and a newer arc onto a single die?

 

[Leocarian]

Isn’t it a bit early in the thread for the “arrogant Sony” bingo card/drive-by ?

Lol. Not really. They're already showing arrogance with how they're treating Cross Platform play and doing all the PR spins. I am in no way against Sony or any kind of bias. I own both systems and love them for different reasons but I also like to state the truth.

The beginning of Xbox One was also an example of arragonce.Microsoft got super aragont and cocky with their 360s success and thought they could get away with all the DRM shit. Similar to how Sony got aragont with PS3 and it bit them in the ass. History tends to repeat itself.

 

[sublimit]

I really hope Sony gives us something concrete very soon - at least an assurance that all digital PS4 games will run on PS5. Until they do, I will be a lot more frugal with my purchases and will quite likely skip some games I would normally pick up. At least until after E3.

I'm pretty sure all PS4 games (both physical and digital) will be playable on PS5. There will be hell to pay otherwise.

 

[DavidGzz]

As far as arrogance goes, I agree. MS was guilty early this gen, Sony when PS3 launch and now that they are ahead again, they are showing it again. Not wanting crossplay, not allowing EA access, not worrying as much as MS about backwards compatibility and there may be more signs I am missing. They have exclusives going for them currently which is awesome but if MS starts matching them in that area now that Phil is in charge, that strength may not carry them forever. This E3 will be interesting.

 

[Leocarian]

As far as arrogance goes, I agree. MS was guilty early this gen, Sony when PS3 launch and now that they are ahead again, they are showing it again. Not wanting crossplay, not allowing EA access, not worrying as much as MS about backwards compatibility and there may be more signs I am missing. They have exclusives going for them currently which is awesome but if MS starts matching them in that area now that Phil is in charge, that strength may not carry them forever. This E3 will be interesting.

100% correct. If MS picks up exclusives sometime in the next few years and comes out with a more powerful system (which they will) Phil made it pretty clear that they wanna stay on top of the food chain when it comes to power, I suspect new Xbox after PS5 release to be able to top the specs. They have the power, they have BC, they have better online services and all they need is killer apps. Bring on the games please.

 

[Swizzle]

... and we are getting a bit off topic, aren’t we ?

 

[JLMC469]

Pardon my ignorance, but how do the (leaked) specs compare to the X?

 

[bitbydeath]

Pardon my ignorance, but how do the (leaked) specs compare to the X?

We don’t know the benchmarks for Navi, it was once rumoured to be 30tf, so less than that and likely above 10tf.

 

[vpance]

If dev kits went out this year, there's no way third parties would be ready to go by this holiday. 2018 would be a mistake. There's zero reason to rush it unless Sony just really hates not having the most powerful box, which it doesn't seem like they care.

Of course. SemiAcc guy might have industry contacts but he has zero clue on games or development process. Just bad speculation on his part.

 

[TheMikado]

Of course. SemiAcc guy might have industry contacts but he has zero clue on games or development process. Just bad speculation on his part.

If it’s fully bc why would it matter?

 

[demigod]

Pure speculation on his part, 2018 is not happening. I'm still leaning on a 2019 release.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Maybe it is just a PS4 Super Pro (if real at all).

Main focus on a CPU upgrade to run a lot more current gen games at 60fps, plus help with VR. Also get rid of the PSVR breakout box.

 

[-hadouken]

My final prediction

PS5 Tease - PSX 2018 (End of the year)

Nah, they're not going to do something that undermines the relevance of the PS4 family that early.