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[bitbydeath]

Disclaimer: I’m probably going to come off sounding like a jerk, but everyone seems so scared to say anything, scared of being put in a bad light, or scared to be treated like a predator but here goes, the side which goes unspoken.

There is a reason we hear stories of male celebrities treating women wrong and it not being the other way around. Men have been conditioned since forever to make the first move, we all know this. Sometimes Women do but most of the time it is up to males to make the first move and Women effectively give the green/red light.

Now this is a difficult thing to do, there is no exact science and it’s not as easy as using ‘words’ to get what you want nor should it be.

Flirtation, it comes in many forms from looks, to words, to physical activity and it is up to those making the first move (guys) to find where those boundaries lie, those boundaries are not the same for each person, some do require extra steps to seal the deal. Can it be taken too far? If read incorrectly yes. Is that wrong? No. It is a discovery on what we can and can’t do. We don’t know what is too far and signals can get mixed up.

Even the recent event of Morgan Freeman lifting a ladies skirt could have simply been a signal misunderstanding. There are lines obviously and most will attribute that to the word ‘No’ or simply being pushed away.

There’s no easy answer for this, guys will continue to pursuit women or humans will become extinct. All I can is i’m glad I’m not a single celebrity in today’s times.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

I would have a hard time believing Freeman misread the situation and lifted a dress.

I believe over the decades he’s been a star, no one has had the stones to tell him to fuck off because... he’s a movie star.

Men may have been conditioned to make the first move. Women have been conditioned to deal and get over it.

We got work to do as a species.

 

[zumphry]

Don't lift up someone's fucking skirt at work. How is that in any way difficult?

 

[Mohonky]

Yeh, but still, tact.

Like honestly this isnt quite in the lines of something you would do to a stranger or work mate and expect them to take well.

 

[Sàmban]

Millions of men get by everyday without doing creepy shit to women. It’s not that complicated and it’s not that hard. Don’t fucking touch women’s skirts at work.

 

[bitbydeath]

Don't lift up someone's fucking skirt at work. How is that in any way difficult?

What if he thought she signaled for it? We don’t know and him outright saying that would stir the hornets nest more than just apologising.

If she did want it and he did it would that still be bad?

 

[zumphry]

What if he thought she signaled for it? We don’t know and him outright saying that would stir the hornets nest more than just apologising.

If she did want it and he did it would that still be bad?

Yes! Don't do sexual shit at work. I can't believe that has to be said.

edit: unless you're a sex worker, then obviously do sexual shit at work.

 

[bitbydeath]

Millions of men get by everyday without doing creepy shit to women. It’s not that complicated and it’s not that hard. Don’t fucking touch women’s skirts at work.

Maybe those millions of men got the green light? It’s not creepy when the same move is read right and is accepted.

 

[Sàmban]

Maybe those millions of men got the green light? It’s not creepy when the same move is read right and is accepted.

Don’t do creepy shit at work

 

[AngularSaxophone]

Women make the first move ALOT.

 

[Shamylov]

Women shouldn't have to put up with harassment because men want to try and get lucky. What's so difficult about simply communicating interest without begin a creep?

 

[hammysaurusrex]

"Green light" means I might ask if she wants to get drinks and have some confidence she's okay with it.

Short of her literally asking you to do it, there's no 'signal' that says 'lift up my skirt'

Sometimes these things are complicated, this time it isn't.

 

[Kenpachii]

If you think she's signaling, ask her out.
If you want to signal, ask her out.

If you got issue's asking people out. Ask if they want to do a hobby with you together.

It's not just men that touches woman inappropriately. Woman do it all the time. It's not exclusive too any gender.

 

[Shamylov]

If you think she's signaling, ask her out.
If you want to signal, ask her out.

If you got issue's asking people out. Ask if they want to do a hobby with you together.

It's not just men that touches woman inappropriately. Woman do it all the time. It's not exclusive too any gender.

Inappropriate touching is inappropriate regardless of whether it's a man or woman doing it. We can call it out either way.

 

[Kenpachii]

Inappropriate touching is inappropriate regardless of whether it's a man or woman doing it. We can call it out either way.

True, it's beyond irritating for everybody involved and should be avoided at all time.

 

[caffeware]

Disclaimer: I’m probably going to come off sounding like a jerk, but everyone seems so scared to say anything, scared of being put in a bad light, or scared to be treated like a predator but here goes, the side which goes unspoken.

There is a reason we hear stories of male celebrities treating women wrong and it not being the other way around. Men have been conditioned since forever to make the first move, we all know this. Sometimes Women do but most of the time it is up to males to make the first move and Women effectively give the green/red light.

Now this is a difficult thing to do, there is no exact science and it’s not as easy as using ‘words’ to get what you want nor should it be.

Flirtation, it comes in many forms from looks, to words, to physical activity and it is up to those making the first move (guys) to find where those boundaries lie, those boundaries are not the same for each person, some do require extra steps to seal the deal. Can it be taken too far? If read incorrectly yes. Is that wrong? No. It is a discovery on what we can and can’t do. We don’t know what is too far and signals can get mixed up.

Even the recent event of Morgan Freeman lifting a ladies skirt could have simply been a signal misunderstanding. There are lines obviously and most will attribute that to the word ‘No’ or simply being pushed away.

There’s no easy answer for this, guys will continue to pursuit women or humans will become extinct. All I can is i’m glad I’m not a single celebrity in today’s times.

I'm stepping on hot coal barefooted here, but I must say, I agree with you.
Until recently, not only was a man expected to make the first move, but he was expected to insist and persist.

Remember, "easy women" were frowned upon. So the ladies would play hard to get, even if madly attracted by a man. The man needed to be the conductor of the whole interaction, because women were not allowed to show direct interest from their end.

Of course, this all have changed. Woman nowadays go on Tinder explicitly looking for a sexual one night pathner, nothing else. They admit to this casually without batting an eye. Back it the day, a woman admitting to watch porn or admitting masturbation was unheard of. It was reputation suicide to do so.

Don't forget that until recently "women didn't like sex".
So my question is, how were you conceived?

By todays standards all of our grandfathers would had been guilty of sexual misconduct.

 

[kunonabi]

Lifting a woman's skirt is a misunderstanding? That's complete nonsense. Signals can be messy but the boundaries are pretty damn clear.

 

[KevinKeene]

I

Don't lift up someone's fucking skirt at work. How is that in any way difficult?

I spent 4th grade In elementary (i guess I was 9 years old) grabbing the girls' asses whenever they wouldn't expect it. They always laughed and giggled and I did it for the fun of it. Today, I guess I would be sent to some special institution. Scary.

 

[DKehoe]

I


I spent 4th grade In elementary (i guess I was 9 years old) grabbing the girls' asses whenever they wouldn't expect it. They always laughed and giggled and I did it for the fun of it. Today, I guess I would be sent to some special institution. Scary.

I dunno if you have kids, but say you had a 9 year old son and saw him grabbing a girl's ass or lifting up her skirt. What would you do?

 

[KevinKeene]

I dunno if you have kids, but say you had a 9 year old son and saw him grabbing a girl's ass or lifting up her skirt. What would you do?

Tell him it's inappropriate and embarrassing, but not treat him like a sex offender. ;p He'd then promise me to not do it again - and do it again anyway once I'm out of his sight

 

[Zog]

Women make the first move ALOT.

Just make sure you don't misinterpret her move. Mistakes are costly.

 

[Gun Animal]

I dunno if you have kids, but say you had a 9 year old son and saw him grabbing a girl's ass or lifting up her skirt. What would you do?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/didyouknowfacts.com/kancho-butt-poking-game/amp/

you anglophones have a lot of hangups

edit: to be clear, my opinion on the OP is that the sexual revolution was a mistake and premarital sex should be illegal. you are all sinners

 

[Papa]

When are these actions alleged to have occurred?

 

[zumphry]

I


I spent 4th grade In elementary (i guess I was 9 years old) grabbing the girls' asses whenever they wouldn't expect it. They always laughed and giggled and I did it for the fun of it. Today, I guess I would be sent to some special institution. Scary.

Holy fuck you are delusional

 

[Cunth]

If someone made a naughty comment about me I’d be scarred for life

 

[Sàmban]

I


I spent 4th grade In elementary (i guess I was 9 years old) grabbing the girls' asses whenever they wouldn't expect it. They always laughed and giggled and I did it for the fun of it. Today, I guess I would be sent to some special institution. Scary.

I’m not surprised you think this is ok.

 

[RiccochetJ]

If someone made a naughty comment about me I’d be scarred for life

How about if they just 'casually' just reached down behind your back and massaged your taint?

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Morgan Freeman has been shagging his step-GRAND DAUGHTER for years.

Defend creepy men, brehs.

 

[Paasei]

I understand what you're trying to say. Flirting can be done in many different ways, and none of them are necessarily bad things. They are just.. outfashioned(????) nowadays. Pinching someone in her butt, doesn't meen you are offending her/raping her (some people seem to go as far as to say this).
However if you really want to flirt with someone, don't do that at work. Just walk up to her and ask if she wants spend a day with you. After that you go on a date and if that is also a success you go on a few more. During that, or by the end, you should know if there's more between you.

I think it's a bit of both, really. Making a naughty but positive comment, a minor butt pinch shouldn't be seen as something that's just wrong. It's just kinda stupid/risky, especially in todays world. And at the same time people need to stop acting like it's all that bad and that you're scarred for life or sexually harassed. Calm down. A bad move? Sure. Sexual assault, hell no.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I think it's a bit of both, really. Making a naughty but positive comment, a minor butt pinch shouldn't be seen as something that's just wrong. It's just kinda stupid/risky, especially in todays world. And at the same time people need to stop acting like it's all that bad and that you're scarred for life or sexually harassed. Calm down. A bad move? Sure. Sexual assault, hell no.

Dude, how about you just refrain from touching? A butt pinch isn't innocent or minor. How about I just walk up and cup your balls?

This shouldn't be difficult to understand, but apparently it is.

 

[FireEmoji]

I was all "yeah man, I'm with you" then you excused an 80 year old man lifting up a woman's skirt at work and I was like "nah man, get a grip."

 

[Composer]

There is a difference in flirting and being creepy. Why are you conflating the two? It's okay to flirt. Don't be thick.

 

[Paasei]

Dude, how about you just refrain from touching? A butt pinch isn't innocent or minor. How about I just walk up and cup your balls?

This shouldn't be difficult to understand, but apparently it is.

If you would be a girl, I'd take it as a compliment after I told you that I do not appreciate such a manner.

But as I said, or tried to say, there are definitely guys and girls out there who like such a way of flirting. Hence is why I said it's a very risky and therefore stupid thing to do. Even if you mean no harm by it.

Does this mean I would do this? Hell no. Does it mean peope that do so only want to cause you any harm or try to embarrass you? Hell no.

 

[LordPezix]

Yeah,.... but what if I wanted to lift my own skirt.... Hmmm?

Can you sexually assault yourself,.....?

 

[RiccochetJ]

If you would be a girl, I'd take it as a compliment after I told you that I do not appreciate such a manner.

But as I said, or tried to say, there are definitely guys and girls out there who like such a way of flirting. Hence is why I said it's a very risky and therefore stupid thing to do. Even if you mean no harm by it.

Does this mean I would do this? Hell no. Does it mean peope that do so only want to cause you any harm or try to embarrass you? Hell no.

Guys and girls in this day and age don't guess. If they do they're fucking idiots. Still, it's a hell of a lot more than your opinion that a casual pinch of the butt isn't sexual harassment.

Yeah,.... but what if I wanted to lift my own skirt.... Hmmm?

Can you sexually assault yourself,.....?

Then take him into a secluded place and make it abundantly clear. Also make sure that he's comfortable in going to a secluded place.

 

[JordanN]

Sexual harassment just feels awful no matter how you frame it.
Like the above story of grabbing girl's rear end in schools reminds me of how I felt during Middle School.

Girls would come up to me and grab various body parts and attempt to laugh it off. It didn't matter if others saw it as just a joke, I absolutely hated being put in such uncomfortable situations that I didn't consent to.
And that's how these abuse stories gain traction. Anytime people tried to speak up about it, you're just told to accept it or "don't make a big issue out of it". There has to be a line drawn when you can invade other people's personal space and proceed to violate them.

I will say though, if you are in a relationship and both parties understand when they can initiate contact, then you practice such touching with your partner. But leave it there, and don't treat everybody you meet in life has the same comfort level of being frisked/touched.

 

[It's Jeff]

Disclaimer: I’m probably going to come off sounding like a jerk, but everyone seems so scared to say anything, scared of being put in a bad light, or scared to be treated like a predator but here goes, the side which goes unspoken.

There is a reason we hear stories of male celebrities treating women wrong and it not being the other way around. Men have been conditioned since forever to make the first move, we all know this. Sometimes Women do but most of the time it is up to males to make the first move and Women effectively give the green/red light.

Now this is a difficult thing to do, there is no exact science and it’s not as easy as using ‘words’ to get what you want nor should it be.

Flirtation, it comes in many forms from looks, to words, to physical activity and it is up to those making the first move (guys) to find where those boundaries lie, those boundaries are not the same for each person, some do require extra steps to seal the deal. Can it be taken too far? If read incorrectly yes. Is that wrong? No. It is a discovery on what we can and can’t do. We don’t know what is too far and signals can get mixed up.

Even the recent event of Morgan Freeman lifting a ladies skirt could have simply been a signal misunderstanding. There are lines obviously and most will attribute that to the word ‘No’ or simply being pushed away.

There’s no easy answer for this, guys will continue to pursuit women or humans will become extinct. All I can is i’m glad I’m not a single celebrity in today’s times.

So... because Morgan Freeman plays a convincing prison friend to Andy Dufresne, I should be sympathetic to skirt lifting? Celebrities are just people, nothing more. We worship them unjustly, making them feel like they can do shit like this, but if pimple-faced Todd from Starbucks did the same thing, we'd think it creepy.

It's creepy.

 

[eso76]

True, it's beyond irritating for everybody involved and should be avoided at all time.

I don't mind. Like, at all.

I would if I were, like, fat and someone touched me with the intent of shaming, obviously. Or if I am sweaty or stink or just felt touching me will prove somewhat 'unpleasant' for the other person.
Like, I don't want people to touch my hair if I know I haven't washed it in 3 days, or whisper in my ear if I'm not confident my ears are super clean.
For me, it's mostly a matter of how confident I am about my body.
And being generally confident enough..touch away anywhere you like, I really don't mind it.
Of course that's not to say I expect other people to feel the same and besides I am not the touching kind at all.

As for Freeman..yeah no, you don't go lifting women's skirts. Although context is important; if it's friendly enough I feel I can joke about it, fully expecting to be told to fuck off, also in good spirit.

 

[HStallion]

What if he thought she signaled for it? We don’t know and him outright saying that would stir the hornets nest more than just apologising.

If she did want it and he did it would that still be bad?

Don't be a creep. End of story

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

You are correct to an extent that the onus has always been on the man to make first contact and signal 'intent'. This extends from the basics of nature and human evolution.

And while there might be some grey area where you have to 'push' and test the waters, there's still a very obvious line which shouldn't be crossed.

 

[RubxQub]

Is it really ambiguous what constitutes being forward and what constitutes being creepy or straight up harassment?

Making the first move means initiating. That can be a phone call, text, a date request, showing interest on social media...non-physical forms of initiation.

Lighter forms of contact are pushing things, but at least are generally less offensive. And can be used carefully without being a creep if there’s already an established or perceived interest.

I mean it all seems relatively simple.

- Touching someone on the arm that you’ve been talking to for awhile after making a joke or comforting them? Sure.
- Touching someone on the leg that you just met? No.
- Lifting someone’s skirt that isn’t your girlfriend and in public? Double no.

 

[BANGS]

Can we stop beating this dead horse? Some people are scumbags and do fucked up shit, they don't represent us just because they share the same set of genitals. We don't need to come to their defense like we have any stake in the matter...

 

[Zog]

I honestly believe that the difference between a welcome advance and an unwelcome advance is whether she finds the guy attractive. I don't play the dating game though so what do I know.

 

[RubxQub]

I honestly believe that the difference between a welcome advance and an unwelcome advance is whether she finds the guy attractive. I don't play the dating game though so what do I know.

While you're right to some degree that a woman that has more interest in a guy is probably more willing to accept something that would otherwise be deemed inappropriate...but as the guy, unless the signals are clear as day, you can't go around touching girls legs or lifting up their skirts under the assumption that you're hot enough to pass their creep limits.

Especially in today's society, you can't be brazen like that unless you KNOW she's down with it.

There's plenty of ways to get a girls attention that doesn't involve putting your hands on her.

 

[Sàmban]

I understand what you're trying to say. Flirting can be done in many different ways, and none of them are necessarily bad things. They are just.. outfashioned(????) nowadays. Pinching someone in her butt, doesn't meen you are offending her/raping her (some people seem to go as far as to say this).
However if you really want to flirt with someone, don't do that at work. Just walk up to her and ask if she wants spend a day with you. After that you go on a date and if that is also a success you go on a few more. During that, or by the end, you should know if there's more between you.

I think it's a bit of both, really. Making a naughty but positive comment, a minor butt pinch shouldn't be seen as something that's just wrong. It's just kinda stupid/risky, especially in todays world. And at the same time people need to stop acting like it's all that bad and that you're scarred for life or sexually harassed. Calm down. A bad move? Sure. Sexual assault, hell no.

What...the fuck am I reading???? Some people really think this? You shouldn't be pinching anyone's butt unless you two are already fucking. Even then, you DEFINITELY SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT AT WORK JESUS

 

[TrainedRage]

What...the fuck am I reading???? Some people really think this? You shouldn't be pinching anyone's butt unless you two are already fucking. Even then, you DEFINITELY SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT AT WORK JESUS

Clearly you never had your friends in school play the 'dick tapping' game? You know the game where your friends try and smack you in the dick as a game. I suppose they are all just gay and trying to sexually assault each other, there is no other possible reason. Kids will be kids bro. If you think pinching butts in elementary school is a major problem you have some priority issues.

 

[HStallion]

Clearly you never had your friends in school play the 'dick tapping' game? You know the game where your friends try and smack you in the dick as a game. I suppose they are all just gay and trying to sexually assault each other, there is no other possible reason. Kids will be kids bro. If you think pinching butts in elementary school is a major problem you have some priority issues.

Good thing we expect a bit more from adults than children when interacting.

 

[Autoignition]

There's no way to "misunderstand" a man lifting a woman's skirt.

He's a pervert. You don't fucking do that to people.

SOCIAL ETIQUETTE 101, PEOPLE. DO NOT LIFT A WOMAN'S SKIRT WHILE SHE'S JUST WALKING BY YOU.

 

[TrainedRage]

Good thing we expect a bit more from adults than children when interacting.

Some people in this thread don't... Clearly.

 

[HStallion]

Some people in this thread don't... Clearly.

Clearly...