DynamiteCop!
Banned
Isn't that exactly what I'm doing?
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
Kagey K
Banned
I didn’t say anyone was doing it wrong., I read 38 pages of this thread tonight and gave my opinion at the end. Avatars and names started mixing together after about page 20.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
As long as no one is calling him names and are logically and rationally debating him I don't see what the issue is. It doesn't matter if it's 20 vs. 1, if the guy continues to fire back and he's wrong he should expect contentious responses.
I'm not saying you are but the guy doesn't need a baby sitter.
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Kagey K
Banned
I can agree with that, but there has been some name calling recently.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
first up its an arcade racer and meant to be fun so reduced physics or not its meant to have silly jumps and drive up mountains, now how can reducing car physics help with graphics? thats the biggest load on nonesense there is. Your trolling is getting more and more obvious and making you look stupid at times
phil_t98
#SonyToo
I get what you are saying and some people get frustrated by the persons lack of reasoning when stating the obvious but he can be the same back at people , just look at other threads
Remember when Driveclub was considered the best racing game by some “other” people?
Well. At that time 60 fps were not considered, IQ was not not considered, static screenshots were not considered and I could go on and on and on. Moving goalposts is always funny for those of us who are reading.
LostDonkey
Member
Its clear there is an agenda behind him.
Look at his post and thead history. Every thread he has ever created is about Sony and how superior whatever it is the subject is over other platforms.
He enters Xbox threads just to comment how superior something on Sonys platform is. I am gobsmacked how he hasnt been banned yet but I digress.
Theres no reasoning with him. Even with the proof in this thread he will still say that GTS is better.
Look at his post and thead history. Every thread he has ever created is about Sony and how superior whatever it is the subject is over other platforms.
He enters Xbox threads just to comment how superior something on Sonys platform is. I am gobsmacked how he hasnt been banned yet but I digress.
Theres no reasoning with him. Even with the proof in this thread he will still say that GTS is better.
Kagey K
Banned
Wouldn’t it seem easiest if some body put up the Best shots of GT5 as they can, somebody put up the best of PC2, somebody put up the best of Forza and let the others decide. Thispicking from here and there to make your fav game seem worse isn’t the right way.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Only caused by him purposely causing frustration with disingenuous posts and outright lies. This last post is a perfect example. It shouldn't be a surprise the responses he gets.
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Kagey K
Banned
I agree, and if I was a mod he would be well warned and on his way to a perm. That’s not how it works though, so you either have to ignore him or wait until he lets it all loose. Until then there’s nothing we can do.
DemonCleaner
Member
glad your not a mod then. it doesn't match democratic standards to ban people for voicing their opinion.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
but thats what is happening and currently a person will strongly criticise a game if it aint GTS and it frustrates people on here when they can see an agenda. not saying it is good but thats how forums work, now going on about said game not running at 60FPS at 4k open roaming when clearly this is next gen graphics thread not 60FPS thread lol
any way Forza Horizon 4 demo killing it at moment
TheAdmiester
Member
Because he’s the resident troll. He’s here to make entertaining posts, they’re not serious and shouldn’t be treated as such.
Stop. Horizon does not have reduced car physics.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
agreed and even if it did how would it improve the graphics lol
Yeah, it doesn’t.
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Gingen
Banned
This is what happens when you add a little more physics and 60fps to forza on console....
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TheAdmiester
Member
Constantly complaining about cherry picking then proceeds to post the most cherry picked shots of the thread
I can't tell yet if Driver86 is just trolling like thelastword or actually trying to be serious.
I can't tell yet if Driver86 is just trolling like thelastword or actually trying to be serious.
Gingen
Banned
Constantly complaining about cherry picking then proceeds to post the most cherry picked shots of the thread
I can't tell yet if Driver86 is just trolling like thelastword or actually trying to be serious.
Every single tree in FM7 is an horrible 2D cardboard shape.... it's impossible cherry pickyng if all the trees are 2D.
Gingen
Banned
More less GTS level ?
The difference is that GTS has way more complex physics and tons of beautiful 3D trees that you and all the others GTS haters in this thread never show....
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Cherry picking as in trying to show the worst shots in game, now you were complaining about people Cherry picking bad shots of GTS now do exactly the same with Forza!This is what happens when you add a little more physics and 60fps to forza on console....
TheAdmiester
Member
The difference is that GTS has way more complex physics and tons of beautiful 3D trees that you and all the others GTS haters in this thread never show....
First of all im not GTS hater....I quite enjoy it. Im just doing exactly what youre doin with other games.
And no...GTS doesnt have tons of 3D tress. Its like 90% of them are 2D cardboards with few 3D ones. In some lighting conditions they do nice job hiding it but the fact remains that they are 2D. Its as simple as that. And it shouldnt be like that given the sacrifices they made allready-static TOD, no weather, picture as skybox, simple tyre model, objects not casting shadows from headlights etc.
Its like all resourses went for image quality , which is excellent.
VisualFidelity
Member
This is just a silly post, the performance is a limitation of the CPU so naturally 1080p had to be settled on for a game like this. Forza Horizon 4 is an open world racing game with detailed environments, traffic, race cars everywhere, weather and changing seasons where you can see literal miles into the distance and drive to these places. Gran Turismo Sport is a closed track racing game with limited external environmental detail outside of the track, the demands are relatively low in comparison.
You're sitting here talking about 1080p 60 on the base PS4, look at the Pro, it's checkerboard rendering 1800p so it's only raw rendering 1600x1800 which is 2,880,000 pixels, that's only 807,000 pixels above a raw 1080p render. Also GT Sport doesn't even look that great, with all the replay stuff and photomodes people dress it up way beyond what it actually looks like but this is its operational reality.
While Forza Horizon 4's operational reality is this...
/Thread end of debate
phil_t98
#SonyToo
don't have to be a hater to point out facts. I actually quite like GTS and I think it looks really good but some people on here think it has no flaws and cannot be beaten in terms of graphics, both Forza and Its have their high points and low points
BusierDonkey
Member
We're right back to showing the ugliest/blandest shots from both games again. Seriously, take this time to go gather proof that the game you decided looks better actually does. GTS fans spend more time playing Forza or PCars (or vice/versa) trying to get bad shots than they do playing their own favored game. It's lunacy. Think your favorite looks better? Show it. People will be more apt to see things from your point of view that way. Anyone can find ugly areas in any game ever made, it means absolutely nothing,
Gingen
Banned
Incorrect.
Where are the trees? I can see only (horrible) palms... LOL
Anyway, this horrible pic confirms that when you add a little more physics and 60fps to forza the graphics collapse
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TheAdmiester
Member
Palm trees aren't trees?
This argument in a nutshell:
Because apparently physics is something you can quantify, and adding "more" of it just breaks the game...
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
The driving physics have absolutely nothing to do with the compute demands on the game. That's such an asinine form of logic. How on Earth are you arriving at the conclusion that a change in driving physics increases the demands on the hardware? This isn't ragdolls being added enmasse tumbling all over the place, this isn't fluid simulation, this isn't a bunch of destruction being added, it's a change in vehicle response to the environment. There's almost no computational demand associated with it.
Also they look like palm trees, not horrible, not amazing, they just look like palm trees. As another person said instead of trying to tear this opposing game down as anything can be made to look horrible how about you offer the absolute best you can from Gran Turismo Sport. Spend 5 hours for all I care, get the best possible screen shot you can from gameplay and post it here.
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excellent post
BusierDonkey
Member
To be fair, Forza 5 had higher trackside details like modeled trees and ran at 1080/60 just fine. The big detractor from trackside detail was the inclusion of the weather system in FM6 and then the time cycles in FM7. A lot of detail was axed when those features were added. The detail drop in tracks like Prague and Bathurst really hurt the track in photo mode and if you stopped to take it all in. In motion the game looks just fine even with the cardboard trees and not putting in the weather and time of day options would have limited the game. In the end it was the right choice to make given the hardware limitations and the hard rule of 60fps for the series. The Gran Turismo series has had to make similar sacrifices over the years. I played GT religiously until GT6 and started Forza at Forza 2 (because I refused to even try Forza over Gran Turismo, missing out on a great game in the process), then went from the X360/PS3 to PC so I haven't followed the series too closely since but didn't GTS have to drop the dynamic time of day and weather? Both have strengths and both have weak points. If I owned a PS4 and GTS I'd show them but I don't so I'll show what I run on my PC.
Forza Motorport 7 (Replay)
Chozofication_
Banned
Eh i'm kinda at the point where I won't even look twice at 30fps racers or shooters lol. There's so many classic 60fps racers out there, pgr4 burnout 3 outrun 2 etc. So i'm really impressed this game is at 60fps now too and looks as great as it does, MS really turned around their graphics woes from the start of this gen.
Chozofication_
Banned
I think the problem with GT since the ps3 days is it's really inconsistent graphically.. one car will look amazing then another moment it'll look like a smoothed over ps1 game at least the ps3 games. PGR and the forza series just smoked it.
Really wish bizarre creations was still around pgr4 was even better than forza at the time.
Really wish bizarre creations was still around pgr4 was even better than forza at the time.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Going back to Forza 7 and calling every tree 2d while GTS doing the same thing is really tragic. they can't say shit about Forza Horizon 4, but keep posting base console shots for Forza 7. I wasn't gonna post posts like this but this guy asked for it. Forza Horizon 4 scared him, he can't even post normal post anymore without trolling and going in other games and posting cherrypicked base console shots without even comparing it against something. Then they start talking about physics wich has nothing to do with graphics. Now they don't accept palm trees as a tree, because its fully 3d in Forza. Really these guys are something els, like you can like 1 game over the other but having this much pain from games on other platforms is tragic. Show us what GTS in gameplay does better than Forza horizon 4 and lets compare them instead of posting base console shots of Forza 7. I play all of them for hours every week, you can't call neither one ugly or bad looking. They are all good looking games on the hardware they run, but these guys are such a troll you can't even say good things about other games without them trolling the thread. Anyway back to Forza Horizon 4, this game is really the benchmark right now
Gameplay
Photomode
Gameplay
Photomode
Well yea the actual graphics tend to be rendered by the GPU but if you look at a lot of race and flight sims on the PC they tend to be more bottlenecked by the CPU than most other games so in a sense hardware still matters for sims. Most games nowadays are are primarily GPU bottlenecked but demanding simulations do rely a lot on the CPU from what I understand. That was one of the issues with getting Project Cars to run on the Nintendo Wii U. When SMS decided to completely redo the tire model a third of the ways through development and changed the physics update rate to 600 time a second the CPU in the Wii U could not keep up with the increased computational demand. The new tire model physics systems ran completely independently of the rendering and main game threads and utilized 2 cores at 600Hz.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This should clear things up, this was an interview with Matt Craven for Horizon 2. These games are still using the same physics engine as their Motorsport counterparts, the handling is just tuned a bit differently for these games. All of these posts about the physics being dumbed down and it affecting the look of the games are baseless and asinine nonsense.
Q: Are we essentially looking at the same Forza simulation system as that found in FM5? Or did the open world and various terrain types and weather systems necessitate enhancing the existing tech?
Matt Craven: We run the same physics engine that can be found in FM5, so it has all the same depth and sophistication. Our handling model is designed to be more forgiving and our car handling designers do an excellent job of setting up the cars to ensure that driving around our world is a fun experience. With the addition of dynamic weather we had to make some changes to enable the player to feel a change in handling when driving in the wet, but we still kept it accessible and fun.
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Chozofication_
Banned
^ That non cockpit forest shot is just incredible playground games are wizards lol. Really hope they're doing the new fable.
I think I took a shot at that same spot. It's a non photmode shot though so no DOF. The environments and vegetation in general just look so good. They really nailed the lighting at midday, dawn, and night. It looks really natural.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Banned
Constantly complaining about cherry picking then proceeds to post the most cherry picked shots of the thread
I can't tell yet if Driver86 is just trolling like thelastword or actually trying to be serious.
Just no ammunition...we're 100-them-0..pure Ls at this point.
FH4 made them feel very uncomfortable for the other camp.
LostDonkey
Member
Good lord it really is the real deal. Fantastic shots.
Im sure we will get a certain someone zooming in on an inconsequential texture far off in the distance and claiming PD the victors yet again though
Im sure we will get a certain someone zooming in on an inconsequential texture far off in the distance and claiming PD the victors yet again though
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Inviusx
Member
PC players are the winners here no doubt. If you have a rig capable of 4K 60 with FH4 then it's unmatched honestly. I think xbox players get shafted a bit honestly but PC will be amazing.
Hands down best looking open world driving game at the moment, probably only bested by FH5.
Hands down best looking open world driving game at the moment, probably only bested by FH5.
GTS hasn't got WAY MORE complex physics.The difference is that GTS has way more complex physics and tons of beautiful 3D trees that you and all the others GTS haters in this thread never show....
Is that the thing you are going to hide behind all the time now?
thelastword
Banned
You know it's crazy, I don't get into the politics, I just discuss the topic. A new poster came in here and went on about physics, so this is where Driver gave his bit about Forza physics (which is true)...How is it relevant to graphics? because it frees up resources for draw calls in an open world game, LOD is then a factor as it relates to all relevant distant detail....How does freeing up physics simulation free up CPU resources to draw an open world game? you don't say???...It's as simple as that......Yet, I'm not even going to go indepth with horizon yet, because what we got was a morsel, proper comparisons are only valid when both games are out and we test it under all conditions and settings....I get it that X fans want to have a great looking racer, no one ever said that Horzion looks bad, but to repeatedly say that Horizon is "the best looking game" is foolish because it has not released yet.....Like one of the posters keep posting "we got them 100-0", what is this? Getting 1000 posters in here just to repeat "best looking racer" won't make it that. You prove things with screenshots, video, good arguments which corroborate your findings....and I don't think that can be done yet.....It's like a set of folk which want a win so bad, but it's all irrelevant until the full game is out and everyone can test it....
Let's be clear, I wish some of the posters in this thread weren't as disingenuous.....Countless times I've been asking certain posters to not cherrypick shots, of textures (behind a building, behind the bounds of a track) (Hage Kamo for example), no one in the Forza camp said anything, because guess what, it can be done on both sides and in the past Forza has had the bitter end of these comparisons (sim to sim) even with PC at max settings. Foliage, ATD, Cars, Crowds, lighting, particles have all been proven to be worse there......A man is posting the texture behind a building you're not suppose to see (with no car on screen, on a track racer vs open world game.... what is he driving in GT?, where proper rendering details would be focused with car on a track racer, obviously), no X fan says "hey this is not a proper comparo Hage", but Driver posts a racing shot with lod and detail issues in Forza (car on screen and all), and everyone is now out of the woodwork.....You really can't make this up.....Some of you guys really need to be less transparent with all this faux outrage and be a bit more honest as it pertains to this thread's deliberations....
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not even sure why everyone is doing a Sim vs Arcade open world comparison, but if it is what you believe you have to, at least try to do a fair comparison. You can't do car on screen in Horizon and then do "no car on screen in GT showing textures beyond track boundaries"....You can't do dirt track vs tarmac, because you feel select GT dirt tracks has so-so textures.... As I said earlier, any comparison between racers will be more relevant when the game releases. I have no interest in comparing Horizon to any other arcade racer, unless code is complete and it's at it's best, so no one would say it's unfinished code......This is what this thread was originally built upon, proper comparisons till it was sullied by certain posters...
There's no perceived level of detail, all elements of GTS's rendering has been proven superior to Forza in the DF video and a million other comparisons online prove it, a million vids have been posted by me and others. There was a time, I was begging folk to post their games in motion vs GT/or others and prove their points, use screenshots and point it out, yet that has been done with GT countless times showing it's superiority......DF, SUPER GT and pretty much all the Petrol Heads on youtube concur....
A superior rendering pipeline speaks to better PBR, lighting, effects, realtime shadows, foliage, cubemap reflections, better ATD (crowds, pits et al). And yes, CB is something good, I'm not trying to dress it up....1800cb at 60fps with a superior rendering pipeline runs circles around 1080p 60fps with further reduced graphics and LOD issues, this is indeed a fact...
Also, if nothing limits you render resolution, forget 8K, why isn't Forza 4k 60fps? I hope this is not another one of your facts....
Let's be clear, I wish some of the posters in this thread weren't as disingenuous.....Countless times I've been asking certain posters to not cherrypick shots, of textures (behind a building, behind the bounds of a track) (Hage Kamo for example), no one in the Forza camp said anything, because guess what, it can be done on both sides and in the past Forza has had the bitter end of these comparisons (sim to sim) even with PC at max settings. Foliage, ATD, Cars, Crowds, lighting, particles have all been proven to be worse there......A man is posting the texture behind a building you're not suppose to see (with no car on screen, on a track racer vs open world game.... what is he driving in GT?, where proper rendering details would be focused with car on a track racer, obviously), no X fan says "hey this is not a proper comparo Hage", but Driver posts a racing shot with lod and detail issues in Forza (car on screen and all), and everyone is now out of the woodwork.....You really can't make this up.....Some of you guys really need to be less transparent with all this faux outrage and be a bit more honest as it pertains to this thread's deliberations....
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not even sure why everyone is doing a Sim vs Arcade open world comparison, but if it is what you believe you have to, at least try to do a fair comparison. You can't do car on screen in Horizon and then do "no car on screen in GT showing textures beyond track boundaries"....You can't do dirt track vs tarmac, because you feel select GT dirt tracks has so-so textures.... As I said earlier, any comparison between racers will be more relevant when the game releases. I have no interest in comparing Horizon to any other arcade racer, unless code is complete and it's at it's best, so no one would say it's unfinished code......This is what this thread was originally built upon, proper comparisons till it was sullied by certain posters...
You see what I'm talking about? all his opinion, nothing proving a point, no corroboration and this poster believes, this bit encapsulates fact....
There's no perceived level of detail, all elements of GTS's rendering has been proven superior to Forza in the DF video and a million other comparisons online prove it, a million vids have been posted by me and others. There was a time, I was begging folk to post their games in motion vs GT/or others and prove their points, use screenshots and point it out, yet that has been done with GT countless times showing it's superiority......DF, SUPER GT and pretty much all the Petrol Heads on youtube concur....
No, there's no fact there....I keep saying to you guys....Showing a game on PC at max settings won't improve it's rendering pipeline, IQ will be upshot but that's it.....As a matter of fact, it's on PC at supreme high resolutions that you easily see some of the compromises in Forza (textures, foliage, crowds, atd) and you do so much easier there.....Right now on PC, there are definitely texture loading issues, lod issues and some compromises in Forza, I can post them but people will cry foul and say it's not finished code. I understand that and I won't....
Are these the type of factual arguments and responses that's supposed to convince me or anyone that Forza looks better?
A superior rendering pipeline speaks to better PBR, lighting, effects, realtime shadows, foliage, cubemap reflections, better ATD (crowds, pits et al). And yes, CB is something good, I'm not trying to dress it up....1800cb at 60fps with a superior rendering pipeline runs circles around 1080p 60fps with further reduced graphics and LOD issues, this is indeed a fact...
Also, if nothing limits you render resolution, forget 8K, why isn't Forza 4k 60fps? I hope this is not another one of your facts....
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BusierDonkey
Member
Forza Horizon 3
Drone Mode
Replay mode
Drone Mode
Replay mode