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[Tesseract]

it's their money, doesn't bother me

 

[Microsofts Hunert Smoke]

I mean in California where this is forced, it's not that uncommon. Just not common in the other 49 states.

 

[mckmas8808]

Not entirely but it’s a big part of it imo. Black Panther and Wonderwoman are two recent examples. I big part of the marketing was inclusivity and finally a film for us type narratives. You had so many people saying how inspirational it was to see x do x and how apparently this was impossible before I saw this Marvel/DC film. Like there was never a black or female badass portrayal in film before this monumental day.

It helps that both of those movies were good. People really did feel that way too. I know I did when it came to Black Panther. Blade was really good too, but that was a badass black dude in a movie. Black Panther was blacky black! Not only was it directed and written by a black guy, but all the lead roles and secondary roles were black. BUT not only that. There were things within the movie that happens that's blacky black black.

It honestly felt good to see a movie like that get the funding that the "other" movies get. And then to see its success only felt that much better.

 

[-Minsc-]

Not that big a deal, though I can see it getting annoying at times.

 

[highrider]

It honestly felt good to see a movie like that get the funding that the "other" movies get. And then to see its success only felt that much better.

What is the roadblock to a film like that getting funding? Because in a free market economy there is absolutely nothing preventing black people or women funding it and creating it themselves. Not that I’m denying that a Hollywood establishment exists, whitewashing etc, but to me it goes back to infantilization. We weren’t ever going to get a movie from Marvel or DC.. Ok then create your own Marvel or DC.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

What is the roadblock to a film like that getting funding? Because in a free market economy there is absolutely nothing preventing black people or women funding it and creating it themselves. Not that I’m denying that a Hollywood establishment exists, whitewashing etc, but to me it goes back to infantilization. We weren’t ever going to get a movie from Marvel or DC.. Ok then create your own Marvel or DC.

I think the roadblock was convincing the suits that the market was suitable for a AAA Wonder Woman and Black Panther film.

I could be wrong though. Were the BP and WW films already in development before the positivel reception to said characters in team up movies (Civil War and BvS)?

As for just creating a new Marvel or DC, I mean, cmon man. That sounds great on paper and everything but, really?

Frankly I think it was overdue for AAA treatment of a female and PoC superhero film.

Blade was great, in its time, for sure.

 

[Rentahamster]

I mean this is getting more obvious everyday, but the latest Spiderman trailer really hit it home for me.
So in this Hollywood reality, a white teenage has a best friend who is Asian, a rival who is Indian, and 2 girlfriends who are black.
The only white person he seems to interact with in his life regularly is his aunt.

I mean this is just an example, but stuff like this is pretty common now in every "mainstream" Hollywood movie. A hero must have XX percentage of minority/female friends/associates/enemies/etc.

So I know what their agenda is, but don't people find it strangely unsettling, or even annoying, when the agenda is so transparent and forced these days and worst of all, does not really depict reality but instead if trying to push a certain type of "desired" reality?

I mean I am a minority, and when I grew up, I had very few friends outside my race. And I didn't date anyone outside my race. And this held true for 95% of other people in my high school and college. From what I observed, asians hung out with asians, blacks hung out with blacks, etc. There is very little cross-race social activity in the real world. So when I see Peter Parker hanging out with all these minorities, it feels strange and unnatural, and a bit unbelievable. He would be the 5% unusual case, not the norm. And note that I did grow up in very diverse societies, not unlike New York City where Spiderman is. So I know how things are even in "diverse" places.

...who cares? Your real life experience isn't the same as someone else's real life experience isn't the same as Spiderman's fictional life experience. You're using your own anecdotal experiences to judge a work of fiction and how its creators choose to create it. Just because it doesn't match your own life experience doesn't mean it would never match anyone else's.

 

[highrider]

As for just creating a new Marvel or DC, I mean, cmon man. That sounds great on paper and everything but, really?

I would contend that neither Black Panther or Wonderwoman had their value because of Marvel or DC. These characters were given value by these films. Look at Spawn, granted not as mainstream but if major institutions or Hollywood aren’t giving your creative products screen time then you create that value yourself. Spawn wasn’t successful as a film, because the film failed to add value, it was mediocre. But say it had been really good, Spawn could be every bit as successful as Marvel or DC films. I mean the fact you think that it’s ridiculous for me to suggest it speaks volumes. Everyone is ‘ The Suits ‘ in marketing, you just have to expand how you think about it ( not you personally) but creators for sure.

 

[HarryKS]

That dude isn't Mexican? Wtf.

 

[Beerman462]

They are free to make the movie they want to make and I usually don't notice and am seldom bothered by "forced" diversity. The only time it bothers me is when they use it as a reason to explain away any valid criticism. see Ghostbusters 2016

 

[Tapioca]

When I lived in the city I had mostly non-white friends.

Get out more. There are places in the USA where white people are a minority or at least not as much of a majority.

 

[G-Bus]

No it doesn't bother me and I'm not sure how you would go about proving it's forced, especially with your example of spider-man.

Just because where you grew up minorities stuck together doesn't mean that's the case everywhere. It's even more obvious this isn't the case when I see kids playing at recess or lunch. To be fair where I live white people are turning into the minority.

 

[godhandiscen]

From my time in NYC, the film is accurate in their representation of minorities. NYC is a big melting pot.

Also, this is a chicken and egg situation. If the media doesn't push interracial interactions as the norm, individuals will be shy of embracing these interactions.

I commend Hollywood for trying, even if the result seems forced.

 

[Fbh]

Doesn't really bother me.
We are talking about a kid being bitten by a spider and getting super powers which at one point he uses to fight an alien overlord trying to get his hands on some magic stones.
Him having a multicultural group of friends is not really unrealistic in comparison.

Just like others though I don't like the change they did to MJ. It's when they start altering existing characters for the sake of diversity that it starts to feel forced and annoying

 

[Dr. Claus]

My best friends growing up were an indian, a black mexican, and two white dudes. This being in the midwest, too. It really isn't that uncommon of an idea. I say let Hollywood make whatever movies they want. If it looks good, I will watch it. If it doesn't, I won't. I rarely watch movies as is anyhow.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I can’t really argue with the MJ backlash, even though it doesn’t bother me.

At least you got 3 movies with Dunst MJ though, so it’s not like vintage MJ never saw the big screen, and again, I’m sure she’ll be back in future reboots

 

[Beyond Vast]

As someone lives in the most diverse city on the planet (Toronto), it's people like you OP that bother me the most. The ignorant and out of touch who confidently spew their ignorance.

 

[Halo is Back]

I have 0 problems with diversity in films and encourage it, but when you try to pull off like what Sony did with Ghostbustres 3, then it comes off as embarrassing.

 

[Uhtred]

I don't get mad if everyone isn't a white man. In fact, Denzel Washington is my favorite actor. I would go see a movie solely because he is the lead. That name is a stamp of quality to me.

What is out of place though, is when I see a movie like the new Beauty and the Beast. They captured the time period perfect in just about every essence. Stayed very true to the original. Then they added interracial and gay couples (and gun violence). Clearly out of place agenda push. Disney is the worst at this. I never once thought about political agenda when I was watching Star Wars. With Solo, it became unbearable.

Disney is the worst!

 

[Hulk_Smash]

I don't lose any sleep over it, but it's interesting to me how much they push it. Like in that Gillette commercial, at the end the scene where they show each race of child in turn, I literally lol'ed while calling out which race would be shown next. Black kid! Asian kid! White kid! Indian kid! Redhead!

I was shocked at how little diversity was in The Ballad of Buster Briggs, I would assume Netflix has a quota you must meet but damn, that movie is as white as a ghost.

Honest to god, I thought the same thing about Buster Scruggs. I mean they did show Native americans... attacking a bunch of white people.

But it felt far more authentic because of that.

 

[Papa]

I don't care about blacks/Asians/females/Muslims/purple people eaters in the media I consume, but I do when it's done cynically as a political statement.

 

[LegendOfKage]

It helps that both of those movies were good. People really did feel that way too. I know I did when it came to Black Panther. Blade was really good too, but that was a badass black dude in a movie. Black Panther was blacky black! Not only was it directed and written by a black guy, but all the lead roles and secondary roles were black. BUT not only that. There were things within the movie that happens that's blacky black black.

It honestly felt good to see a movie like that get the funding that the "other" movies get. And then to see its success only felt that much better.

Growing up, I absolutely loved this movie, and I still think it's a lot of fun:




But yeah, there really aren't too many "super hero" movies staring a predominately black cast. I do also know of this movie. I never saw it, but it always looked more like a wacky comedy with a super hero theme, more than an actual super hero movie:

 

[mckmas8808]

What is the roadblock to a film like that getting funding? Because in a free market economy there is absolutely nothing preventing black people or women funding it and creating it themselves. Not that I’m denying that a Hollywood establishment exists, whitewashing etc, but to me it goes back to infantilization. We weren’t ever going to get a movie from Marvel or DC.. Ok then create your own Marvel or DC.

You literally CAN'T be serious! Why do people fight so hard about this type of stuff? Why are you acting as if Hollywood doesn't have the most money on Planet Earth to make blockbuster movies? And how would black people just create their own characters from scratch and then have $250 million to make a movie about it? With no legacy and no decades-long history of people knowing the character at all. It was always going to be easier doing it through established characters that are known and we created 40 years ago. Everything worked out the way it should have. All parties did the right thing to a "T".

Growing up, I absolutely loved this movie, and I still think it's a lot of fun:

The Last Dragon was one of the best classic movies of its era. If the Internet "existed" back then, it would have created 100 memes. It had so many quotable lines. And the music! "The glow, when you got that glow, the feel the power, when you got that glooooow!!! The power of imagination!!!!" AAAAHHHH!!!!! So good!!!!

I feel back for the youngins born in the mid 90s and later. They missed out.

 

[highrider]

You literally CAN'T be serious! Why do people fight so hard about this type of stuff? Why are you acting as if Hollywood doesn't have the most money on Planet Earth to make blockbuster movies? And how would black people just create their own characters from scratch and then have $250 million to make a movie about it? With no legacy and no decades-long history of people knowing the character at all. It was always going to be easier doing it through established characters that are known and we created 40 years ago. Everything worked out the way it should have. All parties did the right thing to a "T".



The Last Dragon was one of the best classic movies of its era. If the Internet "existed" back then, it would have created 100 memes. It had so many quotable lines. And the music! "The glow, when you got that glow, the feel the power, when you got that glooooow!!! The power of imagination!!!!" AAAAHHHH!!!!! So good!!!!

I feel back for the youngins born in the mid 90s and later. They missed out.

In the same post I find it pretty funny that you mention The Last Dragon, a film that literally did exactly what I suggested. If you’re contending that Wonderwoman and Black Panther were valuable characters before these films, maybe you could cite why, because other than the mediocre Wonderwoman tv series from my childhood I’ve never seen anything beyond their comic book stuff.

And there are black people with a lot of money. Oprah has funded and promoted films in the past, why do black people need to rely on Marvel and Hollywood? How did white people create and fund these characters? You may see this as ridiculous or that I can’t be serious but to me it’s a legitimate viewpoint. Are you going to tell me Aquaman was really valuable as well, and that the established character sold the film?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

In the same post I find it pretty funny that you mention The Last Dragon, a film that literally did exactly what I suggested. If you’re contending that Wonderwoman and Black Panther were valuable characters before these films, maybe you could cite why, because other than the mediocre Wonderwoman tv series from my childhood I’ve never seen anything beyond their comic book stuff.

And there are black people with a lot of money. Oprah has funded and promoted films in the past, why do black people need to rely on Marvel and Hollywood? How did white people create and fund these characters? You may see this as ridiculous or that I can’t be serious but to me it’s a legitimate viewpoint. Are you going to tell me Aquaman was really valuable as well, and that the established character sold the film?

So black people just need another 80 years (or however long Marvel has been around) to establish a pool of creative IPs on par with what Marvel currently has, instead of just being excited about Black Panther getting an enormously successful movie now?

I don’t see what point you’re getting at with the Aquaman question?

I’m honestly not sure I undertand your point of view. You started by saying you aren’t bothered by/don’t care about the diversity detailed in OP, but it kind of seems like you are bothered/do care, or at least have some sort of hang up about it.

If Oprah had the rights to BP she probably would have financed a BP movie long ago, I assume? Not sure what that question is getting at either

 

[highrider]

So black people just need another 80 years (or however long Marvel has been around) to establish a pool of creative IPs on par with what Marvel currently has, instead of just being excited about Black Panther getting an enormously successful movie now?

I don’t see what point you’re getting at with the Aquaman question?

Marvel has a lot of characters. I’m fine with going through existing characters until you contend that black people cant do this without Marvel. The point I’m trying to make is that there isn’t some inherent value to Marvel that is impossible to replicate.

I used Aquaman because to most people he was a joke character. Nobody is checking for an Aquaman film, and it would have been no surprise to anyone if it tanked. The film essentially completely re-worked and updated the character and got a really popular sex symbol/actor to play him. I don’t think anyone was going because of the storied history of Aquaman.

If this doesn’t make sense or seems like a bizarre perspective we’d probably have to agree to disagree because I don’t know of any other way I can explain it.

J.K Rowling seemed to do ok creating a great character and world without the help of Marvel or any other established character/universe.

 

[Dunki]

Honestly I do not care but what I care about is critics using this to make the movie better than it actually is. Black panther was a good example here. Because of the skincolor of the actors it has gotten way more praise and was way too overhyped than this movie deserved. Same with Ghostbusters which was even argued that if you do not like this movie you are a misogynist. (critics for black Panther also argued with people not liking it are racist)

Just rate the damn movie not the diversity.

I also hate when the marketing is revolved about their political agenda:

like this

 

[LaughingStock]

As a disabled overweight latino i'm extremely offended by the lack of representation in hollywood. White people, do something.

 

[mckmas8808]

Marvel has a lot of characters. I’m fine with going through existing characters until you contend that black people cant do this without Marvel. The point I’m trying to make is that there isn’t some inherent value to Marvel that is impossible to replicate.

I used Aquaman because to most people he was a joke character. Nobody is checking for an Aquaman film, and it would have been no surprise to anyone if it tanked. The film essentially completely re-worked and updated the character and got a really popular sex symbol/actor to play him. I don’t think anyone was going because of the storied history of Aquaman.

If this doesn’t make sense or seems like a bizarre perspective we’d probably have to agree to disagree because I don’t know of any other way I can explain it.

J.K Rowling seemed to do ok creating a great character and world without the help of Marvel or any other established character/universe.

Do you realize how many movies don't get $250 million budgets? And also a marketing budget of $100 million? Like most movies on Earth don't get that kind of financing. I wasn't just saying black people can't do it. 99% of the Planet can't do it.

And there's been a push in Hollywood for many years that black leads can't sell movies overseas. And on top of that J.K. Rowling got a $125 million budget back in 2001 (that's equal to $170 million in today's money with inflation) by Warner Bros. That's Hollywood! She didn't do it all her self.

 

[highrider]

Do you realize how many movies don't get $250 million budgets? And also a marketing budget of $100 million? Like most movies on Earth don't get that kind of financing. I wasn't just saying black people can't do it. 99% of the Planet can't do it.

And there's been a push in Hollywood for many years that black leads can't sell movies overseas. And on top of that J.K. Rowling got a $125 million budget back in 2001 (that's equal to $170 million in today's money with inflation) by Warner Bros. That's Hollywood! She didn't do it all her self.

I would argue that she created the value in the popularity of her books that made Warner consider it a good investment. Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Idris Elba come to mind as highly successful black leading men that have sustained pretty long careers starting in the 80s. I wouldn’t argue that blacks weren’t receiving prime studio production stuff 30-40 years ago, but in 2019 I’m not seeing that as being an issue.

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

The diversity is kind of a joke still. They’re forcing diversity but how is still still no male Asians.

Because no fetish exists there.

 

[mckmas8808]

I would argue that she created the value in the popularity of her books that made Warner consider it a good investment. Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Idris Elba come to mind as highly successful black leading men that have sustained pretty long careers starting in the 80s. I wouldn’t argue that blacks weren’t receiving prime studio production stuff 30-40 years ago, but in 2019 I’m not seeing that as being an issue.

The bolded is 100% right. It's not as much an issue now and the Black Panther movie has only made things even better. These are all good things. We should all be happy to see everyone get a shot. Crazy Rich Asians is an all Asian cast that had no martial arts fighting scenes in it and it still made $240 million. That's awesome and I found the movie funny.

 

[highrider]

The bolded is 100% right. It's not as much an issue now and the Black Panther movie has only made things even better. These are all good things. We should all be happy to see everyone get a shot. Crazy Rich Asians is an all Asian cast that had no martial arts fighting scenes in it and it still made $240 million. That's awesome and I found the movie funny.

I am happy for that, and I enjoyed Black Panther. My only point was that I’d like for people of any race or group or identity to view themselves as fully capable of doing it themselves, and I attempted to use examples of that I thought were relevant. Same with Asians, if Hollywood isn’t giving you a shot for whatever reason create value that’s demonstrable or bypass Hollywood. Good products tend to rise to the top, granted 100 million in marketing makes it a hell of a lot easier lol.

 

[xsarien]

Thread should've stopped at "He lives in NYC." I was re-watching Homecoming last night and every inch of his school and social life is pretty accurate to growing up in the city, doubly-so for Queens.

And the stats don't lie:
https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...inational-astoria-diversity-is-key-to-harmony

 

[Hendrick's]

If the goal is to help promote a world where skin color is as important as eye color then I'm all for it. If it is used to further create a division between race, as our politicians on both sides love to do for exploitative reasons, then I'm staunchly opposed to it. In that sense, Spidey is just fine by me.

 

[Dontero]

As someone from eastern europe i absolutely don't fucking understand this whole diversity thing.
I grew up watching most of movies/ tvshows us produced. Everything. You would be hard to fucking find B tier movie that was not rolled out here eventually.

I mean in white only nation people watched Belair and treat it like normal thing. There were shitload of comedies tv shows, movies that featured black people, black movie stars, whole cast being black and so on. I mean i knew more about Spike Lee than i knew about US politics.

And now in ~2015 some people realized that hollywood is not diverse ? What the hell you were watching then ?
You really have to be mental to argue that US in 70-80 was less racist than now.

But i can say one thing for sure. You won't get another Spike Lee or Sam Jackson with such set up.
Those people rose above because they were excellent in what they do, not because they were quota in place so they had to be in.

But hey not my circus and judging by state of hollywood right now in 10-15 years most of people will completely ignore movies from that place because of how mediacore stuff they release now.

 

[Neverwas]

No, because I have real issues to worry about. It's amazing some of you can even function on a day to day basis.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

if Hollywood isn’t giving you a shot for whatever reason create value that’s demonstrable or bypass Hollywood

ah, simple as that! first create a universe of comic books and mass produce them over a period of decades. slowly build brand awareness, through movies, tv shows, toys, etc. (all without Hollywood of course) then in 60 years when the generations raised on those comics are adults with grown children themselves, simply spend hundreds of millions of dollars shooting a movie guerilla style (cos bypassing Hollywood means you now have to do everything yourself), then hundreds of millions more to market it. then you will probably have to bribe movie theaters to carry your film because they are all tied into Hollywood, but you shouldn't have any problem bypassing all that ;-)

really simple, i can't believe more people haven't just bypassed Hollywood /s

 

[Papa]

The diversity is kind of a joke still. They’re forcing diversity but how is still still no male Asians.

They don't complain enough.

 

[Dontero]

This argument about hollywood is like argument about top500.

Bollywood makes more movies that are seen by more people on average than hollywood.
No one asked permision from hollywood to do this.
Each nation in Europe has its own movie industry that makes movies you never heard about probably but people watch them.

My point is that you don't care about making movies and them being watched.
You can about being in that top500 of most watched movies.

Do you know what is the most watched TV show in history in Poland ?
Some brazilian soap opera.

It is like you live in bubble and don't see there are other things outside of bubble.
And unless you make into top10 of best movies ever or most watched you might as well not make any movies.

Do you know what is the most watched animated tv show ? Capitan Hawk/Tsubasa from japan which was fucking riot everywhere it screened and it did more for football around the world than FIFA ever did.

Texas has bigger economy than 9/10 of nations in the world. Why it can't have its own hollywood ?
Same with every other state. Hell you have cities which have more people than some countries.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Go read about clustering in industries, including finance. Movie making follows the same patterns.

edit: and domestic media are segregated for the obvious reason - language barriers

edit2: http://www.surfacenoise.info/neu/globalmediaS18/readings/CowenHollywood.pdf

 

[entremet]

Queens is the most diverse place on the planet actually. It makes sense and not really forced in that example.

I don't mind more representation. These are fictional works after all lol. You can make whatever world you want.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

The diversity is kind of a joke still. They’re forcing diversity but how is still still no male Asians.

Henry Golding getting bigger and bigger by the moment so at least there’s that

 

[Soleil rouge]

The diversity is kind of a joke still. They’re forcing diversity but how is still still no male Asians.

Not high enough on the #woke social hierarchy.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

Crazy Rich Asians is an all Asian cast that had no martial arts fighting scenes in it and it still made $240 million.

i might have bought a ticket to see it if it had martial arts fighting scenes

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

i might have bought a ticket to see it if it had martial arts fighting scenes

You cheeky bastard

 

[Orpheum]

I'm more bothered by the fact, that hollywood keeps on doing remakes of old IP's with an all women cast for example... the movie is received poorly by the audience and all they have to say about the backlash is SEXISM!!!!!... Literally no one would give a shit if Hollywood actually let movie makers do something new for a change with an all female and diverse cast, i'd welcome it actually. The forced aspect about it is annoying and everyone's inability to grasp that these remakes are just shit films. I can rant about hollywood all day, there's so much more that pisses me off

 

[Nelsin]

I don't mind the verity ,but sheesh I sure have other problems with hollywood lately.

 

[petran79]

It would make more sense if they cast Kraven the Hunter as Spidey's enemy. He'd be more at home with minorities since as a hunter he'd travel to many countries and speak many languages. He had even an affair with a Haitian voodo priestess. Really one of the most underrsted villains

 

[7echnicolor]

No, because I’m not easily upset.