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[Hendrick's]

I'm not sure two Japanese games and a beta constitutes a trend.

 

[thelastword]

Is this a conspiracy, lazy devs thread?????? Interesting....

oh no!!! but i thought the XB1X was the most powerful console in the world!!?!! it was WAY more powerful than the PS4 Pro!!

honestly i'm surprised of all people that it's Digital Foundry saying this...they are the biggest Xbox fanboys going. They aren't interested in PS4 or PC...it's all about the XB1X for them.

Hmmmmm!

Which is odd as it runs like shit on my pro.

Then I guess you shouldn't play the XBONEX version, unless you swear by Ybarra of course....

 

[Shmunter]

Could be the result of install base and target platform, or it could be that fp16 sauce is being tapped into after all.. Apparently mobile is punching above its weight due to fp16 being the baseline.

Any devs on here to shed some insight?

 

[Quixz]

Though that begs the question, why is the game less optimized for the XB1 X than for the PS4 Pro?

Different teams perhaps

 

[AnotherOne]

Obviously some third party developers not fully utilizing the extra performance on X, but some are like Rockstar or Even ubisoft with division or ghost recon are good examples.

Absolutely no reason why a game on pro should perform better and I swear if someone mentions fp16 sauce...I hope your ps4 dies.

 

[Shmunter]

Obviously some third party developers not fully utilizing the extra performance on X, but some are like Rockstar or Even ubisoft with division or ghost recon are good examples.

Absolutely no reason why a game on pro should perform better and I swear if someone mentions fp16 sauce...I hope your ps4 dies.

What’s the beef with the fp16?

 

[stranno]

"Hardware is better".

Yeah, tell that to Omega Force and their amazingly crappy PC ports, lol.

 

[Clear]

Isn't it just more likely that having been around a year longer than One X, devs have gotten a bit more experience at balancing resources for it?

I mean it seems to me that Pro, PS4, and One X are pretty similar, with One/S being the outlier due to its different memory structure. That being the case they'd likely target the Sony platforms primarily (probably Pro as its the mid-spec of the trio), and then work on the One/S build last with an eye to matching base PS4 as closely as possible, dropping final res if necessary.

 

[Dontero]

Though that begs the question, why is the game less optimized for the XB1 X than for the PS4 Pro?

I don't think AC7 will push many coppies on Xbox which means devs would put less resources on that.

 

[onQ123]

Maybe it's the fact that Double Rate FP16 is now supported by the most powerful PC GPUs & 2 of the current consoles & devs are starting to push it more.

That make the most sense but just the thought of that being the case anger people lol

 

[AnotherOne]

Maybe it's the fact that Double Rate FP16 is now supported by the most powerful PC GPUs & 2 of the current consoles & devs are starting to push it more.

That make the most sense but just the thought of that being the case anger people lol

Eh you can twist it how ever you want but the fact is X is more powerful than pro. I just find it hilarious that sony guys are delusional and somehow think Fp16 is this amazing savior that magically makes pro a 8tflop beast..give me a break 1 X has been out for what 15 months? How many devs do you think are actually taking full advantage of it.

 

[Pallas]

Makes sense if games are being optimized better since PS4 has the larger audience. Though certain exceptions are out there like RDR2.

Logically, X1X should be performing better in all third party games, because the hardware is better and the only reason that makes sense is poor optimization and developers trying to push the visuals too much like many others on here have said.

Also to those about Sony's secret sauce ...

FP16 is to Sony as The Cloud is to Microsoft.

 

[onQ123]

Eh you can twist it how ever you want but the fact is X is more powerful than pro. I just find it hilarious that sony guys are delusional and somehow think Fp16 is this amazing savior that magically makes pro a 8tflop beast..give me a break 1 X has been out for what 15 months? How many devs do you think are actually taking full advantage of it.

PS4 Pro is 8.4TF fp16 that's a fact but I'm not trying to twist it as if PS4 Pro is more power than Xbox One X it's just better at fp16 operations & have more ROPS. but even in these cases it has to be optimized to make sure it's not held back by the memory bandwidth.

 

[onQ123]

Makes sense if games are being optimized better since PS4 has the larger audience. Though certain exceptions are out there like RDR2.

Logically, X1X should be performing better in all third party games, because the hardware is better and the only reason that makes sense is poor optimization and developers trying to push the visuals too much like many others on here have said.

Also to those about Sony's secret sauce ...

FP16 is to Sony as The Cloud is to Microsoft.

Both are real & it's all about to show now that devs will be using DirectML & so on with GPUs that take advantage of fp16

 

[onQ123]

I know y'all would love to make this thread about fp16 so y'all can derail it like always

 

[Krappadizzle]

oh no!!! but i thought the XB1X was the most powerful console in the world!!?!! it was WAY more powerful than the PS4 Pro!!

honestly i'm surprised of all people that it's Digital Foundry saying this...they are the biggest Xbox fanboys going. They aren't interested in PS4 or PC...it's all about the XB1X for them.

and if you think i'm a PS4 fanboi....both consoles suck

This is not even close to true. When facts hurt your feelings maybe you should reevaluate your loyalty to a brand or a mindset. DF have been more than fair in just about every single showcase they've done. They more often then not recommend a PC version 95% of the time if the port is up to par. They then typically recommend the XB1X version as it's typically the best console to play on.

I'm primarily a PC player and have built an awesome setup to support it, but I also have a PS4Pro and an X1X and love seeing how they all stack up to each other. DF has been real helpful with that.

 

[TLZ]

At least tag the man if you're going to make a thread about him
D dark10x

Haven't seen him in a while.

Or maybe I'm not in the same threads he's in.

 

[AnotherOne]

PS4 Pro is 8.4TF fp16 that's a fact but I'm not trying to twist it as if PS4 Pro is more power than Xbox One X it's just better at fp16 operations & have more ROPS. but even in these cases it has to be optimized to make sure it's not held back by the memory bandwidth.

Wow 8.4TF for 399? That's incredible value.. I take it that the this year we will see 4k 60 fps games regularly on Pro, all this time it's been the X holding back the pro thanks to developer parity.

 

[onQ123]

Wow 8.4TF for 399? That's incredible value.. I take it that the this year we will see 4k 60 fps games regularly on Pro, all this time it's been the X holding back the pro thanks to developer parity.

If you're mindless & only look at one number without context sure that would be your reaction but it's clear that I have never said 8.4TF without saying that it's fp16 so I'm not sure why you would make this silly comment.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wow 8.4TF for 399? That's incredible value.. I take it that the this year we will see 4k 60 fps games regularly on Pro, all this time it's been the X holding back the pro thanks to developer parity.

Jokes aside, the X as well as the Pro are both stuck with 30FPS with high-fidelity games, since they both still have that shitty Jaguar handicap.

So they can be friends in a sea of mediocrity framerate.

 

[Nikana]

Waiting for the graphs that show

PS4 Pro fp16 = 8.4 fp32= 4.2

X One Xfp16= N/A fp32= 6.0

Just to really top this one off.

 

[Dante83]

I am sure it's the optimisation on a console that sells more, so more priority was placed on it while not worrying too much about porting it to the X, which led to complacency. I can't make sense of any other reasons. Ps4 pro is just weaker in all aspects.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

The games mentioned, Ace Combat 7 for example runs at the same res on the XB1X and PS4Pro but performs better on the pro. That's what makes these results strange.

Also, the Jaguar cores are running at a slightly faster rate on the X, hardware wise there is no reason that I know of (other than support for 16bit precision in some instances)... Likely developpement priorities... and possibly some very tightly optimized and mature libraries on the PS4 side are making a difference too.

Even as a PRO owner this does not really please me (it doesn't affect me, but I was expecting the platforms to be close enough in therms of architecture for that kind of situation not to happen much, more something along the lines of "it's not as much faster on the X compared to the pro than we would have expected").

I have to go watch the DF video on ace combat 7!

 

[nikolino840]

Though that begs the question, why is the game less optimized for the XB1 X than for the PS4 Pro?

Becouse devs put All the Power to the GPU...we know if on x theres more lighting/Shadow/particles?
Devs have to put less graphic on pro,so the GPU have to work less,and the CPU work Better
People love graphics...and pay more for a Better hardware on consoles... thats why on god of war there 4k/30 1080/60 ... Devs could put only 1080/60 on pro...but no, they don't Do It ..but why?

 

[meirl]

Japanese devs put less effort into Western focused console.

This is the only correct answer.

 

[dirthead]

Why would anyone optimize for the crappy system no one bought?

 

[Danjin44]

I said this before but more games needs to give us the option to switch to 1080p for better performance. Honestly most of the time 4K is not worth sacrificing FPS.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I said this before but more games needs to give us the option to switch to 1080p for better performance. Honestly most of the time 4K is not worth sacrificing FPS.

Especially with how well 1080p sales on 4K sets with decent scalar chips due to the even integer.

Off Topic, you changed your avatar.

 

[Danjin44]

Off Topic, you changed your avatar.

Yeah, I thought it was time.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, I thought it was time.

Still Kat, so we good. I tried changing to HeiHei from Moana, it didn't go over so well with the community, lol.

 

[dogen]

If it's the games in context, and not overall, then I think it what's mentioned above, optimizations for VR.

The recent DF Anthem demo shows the Pro performing better than the X at the moment as well. Now that may change for final, but pushing more pixels even if both are checkerboard I'm sure is having an impact with them Jaguar cores, especially in Frostbite.

what

"pushing more pixels" adds virtually no cpu load

 

[BigLee74]

A trend One game where the PS4 had to ba forced to run at a significantly worse resolution, one game based on old demo code, and one blip that will probably be patched to its final state a la Titanfall. All for what, a few fps here and there?

Same culprits come out back slapping. Enjoy!

 

[DeepEnigma]

what

"pushing more pixels" adds virtually no cpu load

It depends if the engine is somewhat CPU dependent or not, so explain?

If that's the case why does it take dropping to 720p or 900p on the Xbox and PS4 to get 60FPS (the cpu load) performance out of Frostbite?

Pushing less pixels to achieve higher framerate performance out of Jaguar CPUs, no?

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[Virex]

Ha, you all thought the stability and performance updates were placebo?
The power of stability.

We have reached levels of stability never thought humanly possible. But all this stability sometimes just feels too much. I can't handle all this stability anymore

 

[dogen]

It depends if the engine is somewhat CPU dependent or not, so explain?

If that's the case why does it take dropping to 720p or 900p on the Xbox and PS4 to get 60FPS (the cpu load) performance out of Frostbite?

Pushing less pixels to achieve higher framerate performance out of Jaguar CPUs, no?

Games drop resolution to reduce GPU load. The only way resolution would normally affect CPU load is for pixel-based lod, but even then it would be a minor difference.

Framerate depends on both the GPU and CPUs ability to finish each frame in a certain amount of time, not just the CPU.

 

[dark10x]

This thread is cool as long as thelastw...dang, too late.

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[Freeman76]

oh no!!! but i thought the XB1X was the most powerful console in the world!!?!! it was WAY more powerful than the PS4 Pro!!

honestly i'm surprised of all people that it's Digital Foundry saying this...they are the biggest Xbox fanboys going. They aren't interested in PS4 or PC...it's all about the XB1X for them.

and if you think i'm a PS4 fanboi....both consoles suck

You are quite obviously not a PS4 fanboj, rather a PC elitist knobhead, that much is obvious.

Thank the lords that we have an ignore function!

 

[Mattyp]

Can we have a thread ban just for posting quotes from REEEEEE alone. Thanks mods.

 

[Spukc]

Well thats it i am burning my dark10x poster above my bed what a disgrace!
I thought he was supposed to spread the power of the X.
Not shame it.

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[rashbeep]

lmao

 

[dark10x]

What do you think the odds are that MS makes a video setting allowing us to turn off supersampling and lowering the output to 1080 in the next few months?

After your recent videos, I figure by May/June. Agree or do you think they will hold the line?

Hmm...that's difficult to say. The Pro method isn't obvious or clear for the end user and varies per game. I'd imagine Microsoft just wanted to avoid that entirely.

At this point, though, it would have to be a change on both the system side and game side. Games only detect X or base and have no visibility as to what resolution is selected from the dashboard. So they're not going to suddenly render at a different res.

This trick used to work on both PS3 and 360, though, which is interesting.

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[Spukc]

No more!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Games drop resolution to reduce GPU load. The only way resolution would normally affect CPU load is for pixel-based lod, but even then it would be a minor difference.

Framerate depends on both the GPU and CPUs ability to finish each frame in 16ms, not just the CPU.

Decreasing resolution to increase framerate has been a thing in 3D graphics since day 0 though.

It's no secret that both consoles are still handicapped by a netbook CPU compared to GPU grunt.

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[polybius80]

Could it also be that they're trying to push more pixels in the sacrifice of performance due to the same old struggling to keep up Jaguar cores?

I mean, both Pro and X owners complain about them pushing more pixels while sacrificing some performance, and had been clamoring for more options to dial down that aspect for better framerates.

The GPUs in both can do far more than the CPUs can handle, that is no mystery. I think it's some developers focusing too much on what power is in the GPU and neglecting the performance of the struggling Jaguar.

you are exaggerating, the jagguar CPU is not that bad, it depends the game but for example KH3 can run at 60 FPS most of the time on PS4 pro at 1080p instead of higher resolutions so its clearly a GPU problem, the workload may be more complex but CPUs have less things to do now than past generations and GPU have more work than before(physics on shaders) a better CPU is not going to make a GPU render a 33 ms frame in 16 ms just for the sake of it, also drawcalls in consoles can be made by each core from cpu you dont have to keep GPU waiting for CPU to finish its job, on PS4 that started in infamous second son but now is probably a feature in the SDK just like GPU physics was implemented

 

[Pallas]

you are exaggerating, the jagguar CPU is not that bad it depends the game but for example KH3 can run at 60 FPS most of the time on PS4 pro at 1080p instead of higher resolutions so its clearly a GPU problem, the workload may be more complex but CPUs have less things to do now than past generations and GPU have more work than before(physics on shaders) a better CPU is not going to make a GPU render a 33 ms frame in 16 ms just for the sake of it, also drawcalls in consoles can be made by each core from cpu you dont have to keep GPU waiting for CPU to finish its job, on PS4 that started in infamous second son but now is probably a feature in the SDK just like GPU physics was implemented

I think everyone here, no matter what their platform of choice, fanboys and girls included that jaguar cpu is awful at this day and age and a major handicap in today’s gaming.