1tb NVMe SSD
That part is wrong.
I think that's the most concrete info out of all this.
I believe Maverick will also have 1TB or 512GB of NVMe
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RUMOR: Two next-gen Xbox models to be announced at E3 2019
- Thread starter Shin
- Start date
I think that's the most concrete info out of all this.
I believe Maverick will also have 1TB or 512GB of NVMe
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yeah, and Xbox sales for the first 10 months of 2017 were way down. Its part of the reason they were able to promote the fact that their 2018 results were double despite them being in third place for the year as a whole.
Its not going to slow the PS4 train down at all, the main thing thats going to impact Sony is market saturation. Seems more likely to me staying ahead of Sony announcing a 100% BC with PS4 successor and an accompanying price-cut for the current line and increasing their advantage.
This combination is why Sony are dragging their heels on announcing in my view. Just announcing the BC successor isn't enough as it is a disincentive to selling current (especially Pro) units, but dropping RRP is going to impact profitability both now and in the future when PS4 is deprecated to a low-cost entry-level/legacy offering.
This price drop is inevitable however, the question is only about timing for maximum uplift.
JordanN
Banned
Then would it be fair to say PS2 was just the most powerful when it released?
Dreamcast never really lived long enough to go up against Gamecube or Xbox, so PS2/PS1/N64 were its only frame of reference. It was clearly better than the last gen systems, but against PS2, it had no advantage.
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ethomaz
Banned
Looks like 5nm will be like 14nm and 12nm... same process with a new market name.
Shin
Banned
I think the whole thing from 7 to 3nm is very small gains, IIRC 7nm EUV over 7nm is 10%, what 5 is over 7 I forgot.
That problem got solved by IBM - https://www.wired.com/2017/06/ibm-silicon-nanosheets-transistors/
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
It's simple really, also no, it will probably be $300.
The problem with Xbox One and PS4 is they came about during a period where display technology was transitioning and what was available and feasible couldn't account for it. That's not going to the case for these consoles, there will be a 1080p focused system and a 4K focused system. Both running Zen 2 CPU's and properly compute scaling in the GPU department to handle any load at their respective resolutions while being able to push 60 FPS.
For the 1080p system imagine a bettered PS4 Pro GPU with a much more powerful CPU. You'll have headroom on all fronts for 1080p 60 FPS gaming not only to account for the framerate but also newer and better engine technology and its demands. The same applies to the 4K system, same CPU with no doubt a bit of an overclock for the 60 FPS push to 4K and a 12+ Teraflop GPU which again gives you the ability to hit 4K plus accounts for engine headroom.
It's a perfectly designed strategy, it covers the 1080p holdouts and the 4K adopters in one fell swoop and nets them the same performative and graphical experience at completely different resolutions.
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bitbydeath
Member
Actually Dreamcast did have more VRAM then PS2 (8MB vs 4MB ) & it had tiled based rendering
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This post makes absolutely no sense.
TLZ
Banned
That's the part I was worried about.
bitbydeath
Member
Why?
JordanN
Banned
Did the extra VRAM actually translate to better visuals on Dreamcast titles?
The Gamecube had 24 MB memory in total, but it was in no way weaker than DC or PS2.
Stuart360
Member
Yes in the first year or so. A lot of multiplatform games looked beteer on Dreamcast due to the PS2 having that weird aliasing problem early in its life. DOA2 a prime example of that.
JordanN
Banned
DOA2 is a bad example.
The PS2 version was technically unfinished and the lead developer was pushed into depression working on it.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-me-into-releasing-unfinished-dead-or-alive-2
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Where to begin...
Why would they replace the Xbox One X with a completely different architecture not only in GPU that is also 2 entire Teraflops less, but also throw in a far more powerful CPU of a different architecture, plus 12 gigs of GDDR6 and a 1tb SSD just to run Xbox One games... To add to this... At the end of the generation...
It's logically incoherent... It doesn't make any sense whatsoever... The only way it make sense is in the event of my post which is they're two near identical systems with a GPU compute difference with one that targets 1080p specifically and the other 4K in next-gen engines...
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Stuart360
Member
Its not the only example. Google 'PS2 aliasing problem', it was a well known problem in the first couple of years or so of PS2's life.
CagedChicken
Member
That would be my guess. Especially since Google has some big GDC announcment coming up... would make sense that MS would want to say "we've got streaming too yo"
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I remember this in magazine articles from before the system even launched.
bitbydeath
Member
They’d do it to lower the price to be closer to the current S model and then take that off the shelves.
It’s too weak for next-gen games, GPU does a lot more than resolution in games.
It makes sense to me.
Silent Viper
Banned
Xbox one X n S ram are different as well.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
They're already selling it for $400 man... They'll just support it for a couple years as is like the 360 and faze it out.
It's not too weak for next-gen engines... It's 4 Teraflops on a new more efficient architecture targeting only 1080p plus it's got a CPU which is easily 4x times its capability, plus it has much faster RAM which can handle far greater frame buffering and an SSD for more seamless loading. At 1080p the GPU matters but is of relatively low importance to a degree, the biggest factor is CPU performance.
There's 0% chance a console like that would be to replace the Xbox One X to run Xbox One games... There's no spin or amount of time that could make that appear logical in any degree... ever... To add to this it's going to be the end of the generation, they're not going to invest in the Xbox One especially in such an asinine degree as that. Then there's the other divergence in logic, now there's a third Xbox One SKU that would need to be specially coded for...
Give me a break man, not trying to be mean but that's just dumb...
Stuart360
Member
Acually what you say makes sense, i didnt think of the 1080p angle. 4tf at 1080p would be more than good enough assuming the main consoles are targeting 4k.
I still think the rumour was that the lower spec console was the streaming box i believe.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
That's an old rumor though, and really it was more community speculation than anything.
Look at it this way too, ~60% of the market are still on 1080p TV's, 4K is about to hit 40%. They have to target both, if all the specs are about the same and only the GPU is the real difference it should theoretically scale 1080p and 4K at the same level of performance and graphical capability more or less.
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Dabaus
Banned
It is curious that February 21-22 is the date that all of these I believe, controlled leaks, are dropping. Why late February of all times to leak such things? I don't think Microsoft is in any position right now to goad sony into anything. I think its more self preservation. Crackdown 3 bombed both critically and commercially, Anthem a game they a large marketing deal with is reviewing poorly, last months npd was not good at all for them. Even more so they only shipped 7 million consoles last year compared to sony's 18 million.
So I think all these leaks are designed to drum up interest for a brand that in my opinion,, is running on fumes.
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Shin
Banned
I guess it's no longer a rumor then...https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/200039/microsoft-to-talk-next-gen-consoles-at-e3-2019
bitbydeath
Member
That means they’re only using the 4TF for games. If Sony uses 12TF as the base standard the gap is going to be the biggest gap since Wii and PS3/360.
Edit: VR will also not be supportable with those specs.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
Wow, the fanboys come out at night I see. Lots of you are sewing doubt and doom and basing everything off of how the current Xbox is doing. New gen means a reset. Fanboys won't culminate the majority of consumers of either console. They didn't this gen, they won't next gen. It's the casuals who will make that decision. It's an undeniable pattern that hardcore gamers seem to ignore even though it's been proven the past 2-3 generations.
PS4 wins this gen...due to the 3 "P's": Price, Power, PR
360 won last gen (if only considering PS3 and Xbox, as Nintendo at this point considered themselves an indirect competitior) for the same exact reasons. Many may argue Cell was more powerful than the 360, but what good is power if you can't use it? Developers struggled with the Cell processor, known fact. Games suffered more on PS3 than 360. Another known fact.
Wii technically beat both 360 and PS3 for 2 of the 3 same damn reasons. They had the PR, they had the best price.
Whoever appeals most to the casuals will come out on top. Conversation over.
PS4 wins this gen...due to the 3 "P's": Price, Power, PR
360 won last gen (if only considering PS3 and Xbox, as Nintendo at this point considered themselves an indirect competitior) for the same exact reasons. Many may argue Cell was more powerful than the 360, but what good is power if you can't use it? Developers struggled with the Cell processor, known fact. Games suffered more on PS3 than 360. Another known fact.
Wii technically beat both 360 and PS3 for 2 of the 3 same damn reasons. They had the PR, they had the best price.
Whoever appeals most to the casuals will come out on top. Conversation over.
I think its much more than that today, let's be honest Asia is a no fly zone for Xbox. Microsoft doesn't really care, if people buy hardware, but they are trying to save people from leaving their eco-system before they have a chance to rollout their game cloud services. Unless Sony messes up they will do well, Nintendo is always an up and down wildcard and probably will continue to be.
People aren't going to up and jump to yet a new eco-system at the drop of a hat because of some little power difference or slight price difference. The sales over the last 7 years for Xbox show the true story, its not a short term problem. Let's be honest even at 85m units (X360) that wasn't exactly anything other than singles and doubles, and those were the good times.
For Microsoft its about services, not units, but short term they got to keep what they have in the eco-system.
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Mochilador
Member
Having options is always good.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I'm not sure I agree with your wording. "Trying to save people from leaving their eco-system"? You know this is Microsoft we're talking about right? They're everywhere. You have to give considerable effort to get away from them. I think it's more accurate to say that they are trying to expand their reach in the gaming community via non-traditional means.
Also, who said anything about jump? You're inventing this scenario. I'm speaking specifically in terms of a generation. That's years sir. It will take time. As far as price, if you think $500 vs $400, 1080p vs. 865p, and the DRM scandal or whatever it was didn't create the platform for word of mouth to spread and therefore had 0 effect on the outcome...seriously...I don't smoke, but if this is your reality, pass that shit.
Singles and Doubles? What is this, Wendy's? What are you referring to in terms of sales?
Shin
Banned
Let's not contribute to it as it will only make matters worse...
I noticed that a person gets "shutdown" when giving praise where due in regards to Xbox and that's coming from someone that didn't care much about MS.
So yeah I get where you're coming from but let's not sling shit back and forth and at least try and be better otherwise we'd just be like the idiots over at QQera.
No, I'm speaking specifically to gaming, no they are not everywhere, market share is what they are losing and have been losing, last year was the worst unit number sales since 2006. The people that jump ship aren't jumping back unless there is a real reason. This is why Nadella had his famous, I don't know why there needs to be a third eco-system in phones comment. "Singles and Doubles" is a baseball reference, obviously, so during the good years were meh meaning against the competition - hitting singles not triples or homeruns. (they are now in strike out area time and time again)
I believe you to be setting up a strawman. No, going forward say $25-75 isn't going to sway someone to move eco-systems, and since we're approaching the end of Moore's Law all that power crap is becoming less significant or soon will. People are just not going to jump around unless there is very good cause, as a generalization, price and performance have a bearing but not as much going forward unless someone struggles if Sony sold the PS5 for $1,000... .well good luck, if they sell it for $450, no big deal.
Just like in the phone business, people are very much embedded into eco-systems this wasn't completely the case 5-7 years ago, which is why Nadella shutdown windows Phone, and the Microsoft Band.
https://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-ceo-not-get-world-needed-third-ecosystem-phones/
The only issue for Microsoft is that all their services are not ready, they are still developing them on the Windows and Xbox side of the house, they ability to convert them into cloud services customers becomes even that much tougher.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
That's not totally true.
Sony was able to come back last generation by reducing the price of the PlayStation 3 and putting out good exclusive games.
Microsoft tried to do the same by removing the Kinect and putting put games like Halo, Gears and Forza , but they were still unable to compete against Sony this generation when it came to console sales. This goes to show you how popular the Sony brand is.
Stuart360
Member
4tf at 1080p, the 12tf machines will be targeting 4k dont forget. 4tf at 1080p is the same requirements at 12tf at 4k.
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bitbydeath
Member
But, writing to the metal has proven time and again to be the advantage consoles have over PC.
The jump from Uncharted 3 to Uncharted 4 wasn’t just a simple resolution boost for example.
Stuart360
Member
Whats that got to do with what i said?.
All i'm saying is that 4tf at 1080p is the same requirements as 12tf at 4k. Both the OneX and Pro target 4k already, next gen consoles are def going to be targeting 4k as its baseline res, so the lower spec and cheaper Xbox will be able to play the same games as its big specced brother, just at 1080p instead of 4k.
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
This has always been the case, but a huge part of "casual appeal" here is going to boil down to "Does this game system play the game I want to play, and let me play with my friends that are already playing it?". Sony is tightening it's grip on cross-play, meanwhile Microsoft is getting more multiplat releases and buying up studios to make exclusives - as well as (maybe, it's rumored) working with Nintendo to expand the Xbox ecosystem to other non-Microsoft consoles. All the while, Sony is pissing off a lot of smaller developers in the US because of their policy on lewdness.
Microsoft is making good strides on the consumer side like BC for previous console generations (and free use of that BC for disc-based games) while Sony still doesn't have basic BC available for PS1 games even though they have a capable emulator for PS2 and PSP built into the PS4's OS. I started this gen as a Sony fanatic, but I'm switched teams because Sony for me is just a growing pile of frustration.
Us "hardcore gamers" sometimes claim that stuff like BC doesn't matter - but it absolutely will to the casual gamers especially in the console's first year.
Stuart360
Member
The only downside of all this is the 4k target on the 12tf consoles, because in reality it means games will only be targeting the equivelant of 3 times the XB1, or 2 and a bit times the equivelant of PS4 for its games, just at 4k. Although the cpu improvements mean we should get more 60fps games as well.
bitbydeath
Member
I disagree. A 12TF base system being coded to the metal will produce far advanced games than a 4TF base system.
It’s been proven time and again.
It’s how PS2 made God of War 2 with the small specs it had which would not be possible on PC.
It’s how PS3 made The Last of Us which would not be possible on a PC with the same specs. Etc
Stuart360
Member
The 12tf machines will be targeting 4k. The lower specced Xbox will be targeting 1080p. Waht about this do you not understand?.
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Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Use the quote function. You have 10 random posts that have no context whatsoever.
OT - I wonder if Sony are planning something similar with the 2 models. E3 is going to be strange with just Microsoft announcing. When’s Sony’s PSX event, there has been no official announcement yet?
bitbydeath
Member
The lower specced machine could target 540p. Games on the 12TF still won’t hold a candle to games produced directly for a 12TF machine.