Support NeoGAF

[Stuart360]

The lower specced machine could target 540p. Games on the 12TF still won’t hold a candle to games produced directly for a 12TF machine.

You dont understand do you, and i dont know what more i can say. I'll just put it slightly differently -
You need 4 times the horsepower to run a 1080p game at 4k, right. 12tf is 4 times 4tf.
Both consoles will play the same games, at the same settings, except the big specced console will run those same games at 4k, and the lower specced console will run the same games at 1080p
I dont know how i can make it any simpler for you.

Now if the big specced consoles produce a game at say 1620p, the lower specced console will run the same game, at the same settings, but at 900p, or 860p or whatever the equivelant is.

 

[bitbydeath]

You dont understand do you, and i dont know what more i can say. I'll just put it slightly differently -
You need 4 times the horsepower to run a 1080p game at 4k, right. 12tf is 4 times 4tf.
Both consoles will play the same games, at the same settings, except the big specced console will run those same games at 4k, and the lower specced console will run the same games at 1080p
I dont know how i can make it any simpler for you.

Now if the big specced consoles produce a game at say 1620p, the lower specced console will run the same game, at the same settings, but at 900p, or 860p or whatever the equivelant is.

I know what you’re saying but has been proven time and again to be incorrect.

Agree to disagree I guess?

 

[Stuart360]

I know what you’re saying but has been proven time and again to be incorrect.

Agree to disagree I guess?

Yep lol, fair enough.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Imo, announcing details for your next generation system this early could be detrimental for the next Xbox. If factual, Sony would of plenty of time to counter their strategies, hardware specifications and potential price points. I doubt we will
hear price at this E3 honestly. Not to mention announcing it so early which will probably tamper with Xbox One sales.

 

[jshackles]

Imo, announcing details for your next generation system this early could be detrimental for the next Xbox. If factual, Sony would of plenty of time to counter their strategies, hardware specifications and potential price points. I doubt we will
hear price at this E3 honestly. Not to mention announcing it so early which will probably tamper with Xbox One sales.

Microsoft announced the X over a year before it was released. This would be a little more time than that, presumably, but not too dissimilar. Last page someone quoted an insider that confirmed Microsoft would talk up their new Xbox hardware at E3 but specifically mentioned that they wouldn't be talking price points.

Granted, Sony wasn't also planning on rolling out new hardware in that time frame, so YMMV.

 

[Dlacy13g]

Hmm... still skeptical this is real info and not just numerous gaming sites sourcing a same source and claiming validation.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I know what you’re saying but has been proven time and again to be incorrect.

Agree to disagree I guess?

What has been proven to be incorrect and please be specific.

 

[baphomet]

If it's true they've already fucked up.

Can't wait to play games designed for a console with 1/3rd the horsepower on my 12TF machine. /s

 

[bitbydeath]

What has been proven to be incorrect and please be specific.

Writing to the metal produces greater results than not.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Writing to the metal produces greater results than not.

So how does that in any way deviate from what I've said or in some way present an alternative position?

 

[bitbydeath]

So how does that in any way deviate from what I've said or in some way present an alternative position?

1. Code to the metal 12TF
2. Code to the metal 4TF

Pick one, you don’t get both.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

1. Code to the metal 12TF
2. Code to the metal 4TF

Pick one, you don’t get both.

And why exactly is that? They would be nigh identical in every capacity with the exception of GPU computation so coding should simply be a metric of scaling rather than any kind of ancillary exception. A configuration change to resolution with some historically light levels of optimization.

 

[bitbydeath]

And why exactly is that? They would be nigh identical in every capacity with the exception of GPU computation so coding should simply be a metric of scaling rather than any kind of ancillary exception. A configuration change to resolution with some historically light levels of optimization.

Well, take Xbox One S and Xbox One X as an example. Obviously if games were made directly on the One X they would be far more advanced than those made on the S and resolution enhanced on the X right?

The same applies to the rumour.

We’ve seen it in numerous past examples as I’ve already stated some of them.

Coding to the metal is powerful and being forced to waste that power on resolution only as they’re unlikely to rewrite the entire game for the more powerful hardware.

 

[Big Daddy]

I'm new don't bully me

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Well, take Xbox One S and Xbox One X as an example. Obviously if games were made directly on the One X they would be far more advanced than those made on the S and resolution enhanced on the X right?

The same applies to the rumour.

We’ve seen it in numerous past examples as I’ve already stated some of them.

Coding to the metal is powerful and being forced to waste that power on resolution only as they’re unlikely to rewrite the entire game for the more powerful hardware.

I was hedging on you bringing this up because it's exactly what I figured you were basing your logic on.

Xbox One games have to ported to X to take additional advantage of the hardware beyond natural compute benefits, they're designed differently in a lot of ways particularly the way resources are managed and a completely different memory sub-system. They share a lot of general architectural similarities as well which allows unpatched Xbox One games to run but to do anything beyond that the code has to be ported and modified and exceptions have to be added to parse beyond what was previously coded for.

This wouldn't be that, if they coded to one of these systems they would effectually be coding to both identically bar configuration and light tuning around resolution. Same CPU, same GPU architecture, same memory sub-system, it would literally be the same system. In the case of this it would be really no different than having a specifically speced PC with one CPU and the same memory configuration and then simply adding a more powerful GPU of the same architectural variety. You would naturally benefit and basically get everything out of it immediately that would allow you to increase your resolution.

 

[Stuart360]

If it's true they've already fucked up.

Can't wait to play games designed for a console with 1/3rd the horsepower on my 12TF machine. /s

Oh boy, another one.

 

[Shin]

Not following the conversation but as things is or will be with the coming generation, nothing resets as before, so basically copying a PC.
Lowest common denominator applies and gets shifted by hardware requirement(s), E.g. (PS4/XBox One and above needed to be played).
First parties might push or build with Y and Z specification in mind and it will just look like a last gen game on the weaker consoles.

 

[Gavon West]

Still think this 2 model idea is interesting. Trying to cover both the low and high end console market.
But even as a cheaper system, isn't 4Tflops a bit low for a next gen 2020 console?

Not at a max res of 1080p with all the bells and whistles and best performance. Devs can just scale down from Anaconda.

 

[DForce]

4TF is not enough, especially considering the top next gen consoles may be around 10-12TF.

 

[Stuart360]

4TF is not enough, especially considering the top next gen consoles may be around 10-12TF.

1080p vs 4k

 

[ethomaz]

I thought the lower powered box was the streaming box?. Wasn't the rumour 2 consoles, one 'proper' high powered console, and 1 cheaper lower spec console for streaming.

A steaming box doesn’t need 12GB RAM, 4TF GPU or SSD.

 

[DForce]

1080p vs 4k

Yes, i'm aware that the 4TF console is aiming for 1080p.

 

[bitbydeath]

I was hedging on you bringing this up because it's exactly what I figured you were basing your logic on.

Xbox One games have to ported to X to take additional advantage of the hardware beyond natural compute benefits, they're designed differently in a lot of ways particularly the way resources are managed and a completely different memory sub-system. They share a lot of general architectural similarities as well which allows unpatched Xbox One games to run but to do anything beyond that the code has to be ported and modified and exceptions have to be added to parse beyond what was previously coded for.

This wouldn't be that, if they coded to one of these systems they would effectually be coding to both identically bar configuration and light tuning around resolution. Same CPU, same GPU architecture, same memory sub-system, it would literally be the same system. In the case of this it would be really no different than having a specifically speced PC with one CPU and the same memory configuration and then simply adding a more powerful GPU of the same architectural variety. You would naturally benefit and basically get everything out of it immediately that would allow you to increase your resolution.

The memory sizes are different between the two versions as well it’s not just GPU.

Anyway I can see your not seeing what im seeing here. So will just wait to see if the rumours play out to be true. I’m still hoping this is simply an X replacement which would make more sense IMO.

 

[Stuart360]

Yes, i'm aware that the 4TF console is aiming for 1080p.

You have to remember that its alsmost certain that the main next gen consoles will be targeting 4k in most of their games. The 1080p box with 4tf will have more than enough power to play the same games at 1080p.

 

[ethomaz]

And why exactly is that? They would be nigh identical in every capacity with the exception of GPU computation so coding should simply be a metric of scaling rather than any kind of ancillary exception. A configuration change to resolution with some historically light levels of optimization.

GPU Power, RAM, bandwidth, etc... it is all different between machines.

And scale didn’t work like that magic you are trying to pass... you need to optimizations to scale to a fixed hardware that is stronger.

But scaling optimization will never be close to same result than make game having a fixed target.

PC do scale in all games using brute force but you don’t have that option with fixed hardware.

The games will be primary made with the base 4TF console in mind and that can even hold gaming development for the whole industry like it is being hold by PS4/XB1 today.

 

[DForce]

You have to remember that its alsmost certain that the main next gen consoles will be targeting 4k in most of their games. The 1080p box with 4tf will have more than enough power to play the same games at 1080p.

At the beginning, devs were targeting 1080p on the base PS4 and XB1 consoles. Now we're seeing more sub-1080p games on the PS4 console because devs are trying to push their new engines as far as they can go.

IDevs are going to start pushing the hardware even more and we might even see a lot mid-gen refresh as devs would rather aim for the highest graphical fidelity than 4K resolution.

It will work early in the generation, but you're going to start seeing some sub 1080p games as the years go on if they release a 4TF console.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

The memory sizes are different between the two versions as well it’s not just GPU.

Anyway I can see your not seeing what im seeing here. So will just wait to see if the rumours play out to be true. I’m still hoping this is simply an X replacement which would make more sense IMO.

Additional memory could be automatically parsed, it would account for the higher resolution render and operating system scaling.

GPU Power, RAM, bandwidth, etc... it is all different between machines.

And scale didn’t work like that magic you are trying to pass... you need to optimizations to scale to a fixed hardware that is stronger.

But scaling optimization will never be close to same result than make game having a fixed target.

PC do scale in all games using brute force but you don’t have that option with fixed hardware.

The games will be primary made with the base 4TF console in mind and that can even hold gaming development for the whole industry like it is being hold by PS4/XB1 today.

This is accurate to a degree but in the case of something like this not really. The only difference I can foresee in this lesser system is a compute unit and memory capacity cut. That's it. Bandwidth wouldn't change, frequency wouldn't change, there would be no other observable difference in the system.

Also that's not really how development works, they generally overshoot targets and scale back depending on platform. You don't build from less and try to create more; that's much more difficult. You overdevelop naturally and then deconstruct.

There's a reasons PC's have these configuration ceilings which are far beyond what you see on consoles, because that's more in tune with how the game was actually developed at peak. What you see on console is a deconstruction of that.

 

[Stuart360]

At the beginning, devs were targeting 1080p on the base PS4 and XB1 consoles. Now we're seeing more sub-1080p games on the PS4 console because devs are trying to push their new engines as far as they can go.

IDevs are going to start pushing the hardware even more and we might even see a lot mid-gen refresh as devs would rather aim for the highest graphical fidelity than 4K resolution.

It will work early in the generation, but you're going to start seeing some sub 1080p games as the years go on if they release a 4TF console.

Of course, and when you get say a 1620p next gen game, the low end box will run in 900p/860p etc.
Also remember that 4k needs 4 times the power over 1080p, and 12tf is only 3 times 4tf, so even some 1800p games next gen may still run at 1080p on the low end box

 

[Kagero]

I hope sony won't go this route. One sku of ps5 is enough.

Naw man. I want a high end PS5 and Vita 2 combo. Yeah I'm crazy but you don't get places by being normal.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Of course, and when you get say a 1620p next gen game, the low end box will run in 900p/860p etc.
Also remember that 4k needs 4 times the power over 1080p, and 12tf is only 3 times 4tf, so even some 1800p games next gen may still run at 1080p on the low end box

This isn't exactly true, compute doesn't scale resolution linearly. Also another thing you're not considering is rendering surplus. 1080p is a hard cap, but that doesn't mean that system is being tapped out at that resolution, it could have extra compute to give which would translate to the other system as well.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Of course, and when you get say a 1620p next gen game, the low end box will run in 900p/860p etc.
Also remember that 4k needs 4 times the power over 1080p, and 12tf is only 3 times 4tf, so even some 1800p games next gen may still run at 1080p on the low end box

According to DF, MS whitepapers stated that raster efficiency increases in line with resolution, so it only took 3.5x times the power to render 1080p Xbox One game at 4k. A lot will depend on the CPU and Memory configuration as well. For instance, Xbox One X runs some 1080p PS4 games at native 4K, Anthem and RDR2 come to mind.

A 4TF Xbox Lockhart with GDDR6, Navi arch, and a way better CPU could perform as well as the Xbox One X at 30fps targeted games, and smoke it at 60fps target games. Nothing stops them from lower settings either. The GTX 1060 tier of GPUs is extremely popular on PC and they won't be leaving out consideration for that range of cards in "next-gen" games.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share since it seems to bolster the viability of a 2-tier approach. This rumor would suggest they intend to sandwich the PS5 at $500 and $300.

 

[Nikana]

I'm new don't bully me

Only if you call me big mommy.

 

[Stuart360]

This isn't exactly true, compute doesn't scale resolution linearly. Also another thing you're not considering is rendering surplus. 1080p is a hard cap, but that doesn't mean that system is being tapped out at that resolution, it could have extra compute to give which would translate to the other system as well.

I would guess the high end consoles will be the target for devs, then the games will be scaled down for the low end box. Only because i would think that the more expensive console will sell more, i could be wrong.

 

[DForce]

Of course, and when you get say a 1620p next gen game, the low end box will run in 900p/860p etc.
Also remember that 4k needs 4 times the power over 1080p, and 12tf is only 3 times 4tf, so even some 1800p games next gen may still run at 1080p on the low end box

It's really going to depend on the developers. Current generation games are just PS4\XB1 games scaled up with enhancements. I know devs want to use that power to push their ideas further, which means they will need to use those extra resources.

 

[onQ123]

I would guess the high end consoles will be the target for devs, then the games will be scaled down for the low end box. Only because i would think that the more expensive console will sell more, i could be wrong.

If the cheaper smaller console don't outsell the high end model then what is the point of the cheaper model?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I would guess the high end consoles will be the target for devs, then the games will be scaled down for the low end box. Only because i would think that the more expensive console will sell more, i could be wrong.

That is exactly what will happen, the 12+ Teraflop console is the base system, that is the next-gen offering and as such it will be supported as it. The 4 Teraflop offering will be an option for people who want something cheaper, who want a 1080p experience or are just more casual.

The reality is in this instance the most expensive system might be the one which sells the most, people are willing to spend a lot of money at the beginning of a generation, they're geared up for it. $400-$500 isn't a big ask, it's expected.

If the cheaper smaller console don't outsell the high end model then what is the point of the cheaper model?

Options and accessibility.

 

[Stuart360]

If the cheaper smaller console don't outsell the high end model then what is the point of the cheaper model?

For the people that want it, the people who dont have 4ktv's (which is still the majority), for the people without much money, for parents who would have more chance of buying the cheaper console for their kids at Christmas, etc.
I still think the more powerful console will sell more because of the people that want the best, and fanboy wars etc (if Playstation only bring out 1 sku, they done want all the 'lol you only have the peasent box').
More options is always a good thing, always.

 

[onQ123]

Options and accessibility.

And why do you think they are providing this cheaper option?

Because it well reach a wider market in the beginning

For the people that want it, the people who dont have 4ktv's (which is still the majority), for the people without much money, for parents who would have more chance of buying the cheaper console for their kids at Christmas, etc.
I still think the more powerful console will sell more because of the people that want the best, and fanboy wars etc (if Playstation only bring out 1 sku, they done want all the 'lol you only have the peasent box').

Which will be the bigger market

 

[ethomaz]

Additional memory could be automatically parsed, it would account for the higher resolution render and operating system scaling.

This is accurate to a degree but in the case of something like this not really. The only difference I can foresee in this lesser system is a compute unit and memory capacity cut. That's it. Bandwidth wouldn't change, frequency wouldn't change, there would be no other observable difference in the system.

Also that's not really how development works, they generally overshoot targets and scale back depending on platform. You don't build from less and try to create more; that's much more difficult. You overdevelop naturally and then deconstruct.

There's a reasons PC's have these configuration ceilings which are far beyond what you see on consoles, because that's more in tune with how the game was actually developed at peak. What you see on console is a deconstruction of that.

The fact you have more memory already affect bandwidth because you need a bigger bus.

Each chip of memory is attached to a 32bits bus.

 

[TeamGhobad]

if the consoles are released in late 2020 wouldnt e3 2020 be the time to reveal them?

 

[Redneckerz]

Credit: Gematsu
Source: Jeuxvideo [French]

Started a new thread as new information (Verge editor and so on) is not covered in the old one nor visible in a 9+ page topic and discussions are based off Jan. 23.
Old thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/rumo...age-devkit-to-release-after-gdc-2019.1471442/

Xbox Lockhart:
Reads like both a downgraded and improved Xbox One X to me. CPU upgrade, RAM upgrade to GDDR6, but GPU downgrade. And its discless, so how does this machine make the X obsolete? The X is using older tech, but also has 12 GB ram, a 2 TF more powerful GPU, and a significantly less CPU.

All by all the X wouldn't be obsolete by Lockhart, infact, since it has a disc drive and its older and thus cheaper, it might be the better option, except Lockhart supposely is going to play the next-gen titles.

In fact Lockhart looks more like a PS4 Pro with 4 GB's of more modern memory and a better CPU.

The fact that this is discless though and thus download-only reduces costs, but it also promotes a digital-only narrative. As some may know i am completely against that.

Xbox Anaconda:
This is something more like it. A big CPU boost, twice the TF power of X, 16 GB of GDDR6... for 400 in 2020? Doubtful, and 24 GB (Same as X Devkit) might be more akin to it, but if you can get that for less than 500 bucks.. 500 is basically the threshold limit or you are just losing too much per unit.

Conclusion:
So i am not too certain about these specs. Lockhart does not make an X or Pro obsolete and as a discless device its only good for people who already have a good internet structure and are okay with dependencies.

Anaconda seems more like a proper next-gen console, but RAM amount is a bit sketchy skill. 16 GB for 5 years? Seems a bit limited, even when its GDDR6.

I was joking, kiddos.

Joke has to be funny before it works though.

Huh? The N64 was more powerful than PSX in terms of specs.
Xbox was more powerful than PS2.
PS3 was mostly more powerful than the 360, just less ram and funky architecture.
With PS4, you're right.

I don't see how Sony has always been more powerful at all.

Are we really still having this style of argument in 2019?

The 4TF is probably a cheaper (7nm) Xbox One X.

I agree, in a way it is.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I would guess the high end consoles will be the target for devs, then the games will be scaled down for the low end box. Only because i would think that the more expensive console will sell more, i could be wrong.

The higher end SKU will only sell more if Xbox continues to be a small install base like this gen. If MS have pretensions of selling the same numbers as Sony and Nintendo, then the higher end model won't be their bread and butter for the market.

 

[Insane Metal]

Xbox Lockhart:
Reads like both a downgraded and improved Xbox One X to me. CPU upgrade, RAM upgrade to GDDR6, but GPU downgrade. And its discless, so how does this machine make the X obsolete? The X is using older tech, but also has 12 GB ram, a 2 TF more powerful GPU, and a significantly less CPU.

All by all the X wouldn't be obsolete by Lockhart, infact, since it has a disc drive and its older and thus cheaper, it might be the better option, except Lockhart supposely is going to play the next-gen titles.

In fact Lockhart looks more like a PS4 Pro with 4 GB's of more modern memory and a better CPU.

The fact that this is discless though and thus download-only reduces costs, but it also promotes a digital-only narrative. As some may know i am completely against that.

Xbox Anaconda:
This is something more like it. A big CPU boost, twice the TF power of X, 16 GB of GDDR6... for 400 in 2020? Doubtful, and 24 GB (Same as X Devkit) might be more akin to it, but if you can get that for less than 500 bucks.. 500 is basically the threshold limit or you are just losing too much per unit.

Conclusion:
So i am not too certain about these specs. Lockhart does not make an X or Pro obsolete and as a discless device its only good for people who already have a good internet structure and are okay with dependencies.

Anaconda seems more like a proper next-gen console, but RAM amount is a bit sketchy skill. 16 GB for 5 years? Seems a bit limited, even when its GDDR6.


Joke has to be funny before it works though.


Are we really still having this style of argument in 2019?


I agree, in a way it is.

I don't think it'll be 400. More like 500.

 

[onQ123]

With Microsoft releasing DirectML soon I wouldn't be too worried about the 4TF model it's going to make good use of 8-bit , 10-bit & 16-bit & it will most likely have a A.I processor on board for things like super resolution & so on.

 

[Nikodemos]

Xbox Lockhart:
Reads like both a downgraded and improved Xbox One X to me. CPU upgrade, RAM upgrade to GDDR6, but GPU downgrade. And its discless, so how does this machine make the X obsolete? The X is using older tech, but also has 12 GB ram, a 2 TF more powerful GPU, and a significantly less CPU.

All by all the X wouldn't be obsolete by Lockhart, infact, since it has a disc drive and its older and thus cheaper, it might be the better option, except Lockhart supposely is going to play the next-gen titles.

In fact Lockhart looks more like a PS4 Pro with 4 GB's of more modern memory and a better CPU.

The fact that this is discless though and thus download-only reduces costs, but it also promotes a digital-only narrative. As some may know i am completely against that.

The GPU in the X is built upon an older AMD design with some tweaks. As many are aware, AMD GPUs are somewhat inefficient with their compute, thus the actual power is below nominal.

According to rumors, Navi is a more cycle-efficient architecture, whose operational power is closer to nVidia's FLOPS count. If that is truly the case, then the low nominal FLOPS count is irrelevant. It could very well turn out that 4 Navi TFLOPS are equal to ~5.2 (+/-) Polaris+ (I think that's the base architecture in the X) TFLOPS. In that case, and considering the rumors that Lockhart is resolution-locked to 1080p, it should pretty much run anything one could throw at it in FHD 60fps. Which is evidently the target for the lower-specced unit.

As for what would be its purpose? Most likely primarily Game Pass, backwards compatibility (digital-only, due to multiple reports of it being discless) with the existing XBox OG, 360 and One library, streaming, and the occasional next-gen game at a locked 1080p 60fps.

Price-wise, I can see Microsoft trying to straddle Sony with their offers, since it is suspected that Sony will do a repeat of $399. In which case, Microsoft will possibly offer a $299 lower-end box, and a $499 flagship one.

 

[Supmate]

Long long time lurker first time Post here.
I like to listen to the discussion and that's enough usually.

Just like to take this discussion on a slightly different slant that I haven't seen discussed so far.

If we go back to Phil Spencer discussing next box and the advantages from a cost point of view that xbox has, he cites Azure Cloud as a big advantage. Microsoft have gone on record as saying XCloud will be run on Xbox One S blades because they are cheap and work really well as multi purpose server blades.

He also talked about this big advantage in terms of cost. Not an accountant so I can't go into the detail properly however, it meant to me that as these blades would be earning dollars performing non game related tasks then the cost of citing those blades in data centres would be quickly recouped. Much much quicker than if they were there purely to power XCloud. He then clearly went on to say future xbox will be built in conjunction with the Azure team so both will benefit from this.

If I've developed my argument well enough then the rest should follow.

Pure speculation of course but what if the Next Xbox one S (the lockhart) is essentially also the next Azure XCloud server?

We're asking the question why does Lockhart exist as a next gen console with only 4 ish tflops gpu compute. Well that is still 3 times the gpu compute of an One S. The CPU side is at least 3 times better than the One S too. So from a cost point of view you can site 1 Azure blade for every 3 One S blades. So to do the same work you would need 3 times less space. A Lockhart blade would be more power efficient and therefore less costly than 3 current One S blades doing the same work and completely compatible due to the same CPU as Anaconda for streaming. I make that win; win and win?

I'd also suggest this Azure blade turned into a console could be really quite cheap since a lot of its cost and r&d can be attributed to investment in XCloud. An accountant could explain but the only real cost would be packaging; shipping; marketing etc and for that reason it makes perfect sense to release as a console.

BTW I dont think it needs to be navi based at all. I think it's just as likely to be the scorpio engine in the One X at 7nm - ie the vega vll (widely reported reason why it even exists at 7 nm is that it's great for server workloads?) but with 40 compute units rather than 60 and GDDR5 memory not HBM ll.

Anaconda on the other hand would be all navi gddr 6 etc to take on PS5.

Then I started thinking....Lockhart could be built right now? Then I started thinking Xbox and whole stage to themselves at E3? They could literally put Lockhart on sale this year.

 

[ZywyPL]

The GPU in the X is built upon an older AMD design with some tweaks. As many are aware, AMD GPUs are somewhat inefficient with their compute, thus the actual power is below nominal.

According to rumors, Navi is a more cycle-efficient architecture, whose operational power is closer to nVidia's FLOPS count. If that is truly the case, then the low nominal FLOPS count is irrelevant. It could very well turn out that 4 Navi TFLOPS are equal to ~5.2 (+/-) Polaris+ (I think that's the base architecture in the X) TFLOPS. In that case, and considering the rumors that Lockhart is resolution-locked to 1080p, it should pretty much run anything one could throw at it in FHD 60fps. Which is evidently the target for the lower-specced unit.

That's not the case in consoles tho, where the so called "coding to the metal" allows the devs to really squeeze everything the GPUs have to offer, just like on PC with low-level API/engines like Frostbite, IDTech6, MS UWP games, etc. AMD GPUs shine like never before, and even Fury X is gaining second life. So 4FT would really mean 4TF, which IMO will be a really noticeable upgrade compared to current 1,3TF.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mass Nerder]

Joke has to be funny before it works though.

Cool.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I thought this was whack at first. But if the weaker box has the same processor and memory, it should be able to run the same next gen titles as the more powerful box (~1080p for when Andromeda does 4K, plus any fancy upscaling they have).

Now that I'm thinking of it, a cheap box that runs the same games at 1080p and is diskless could take the next gen by storm if it's substantially cheaper than the PS5.

 

[UltimaKilo]

This would kill any momentum they currently have on XboneX and destroy their holiday sales. Pretty damn stupid if true.