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Microsoft: Project xCloud input lag is below 10 ms, may only need 5 Mbps internet

P

Penguins&PolarBears

Member
Does MS have any incentive to put high end games on this service? If they want to sell Xbox consoles they will limit game quality to Xbox One S level graphics. That kills a lot of my enthusiasm for the service. In 2020 I will want graphics better than a 2013 Xbox.

What platforms might we see a streaming Xbox Game Pass service on besides Windows/Xbox? I've heard about iOS/Android and Nintendo Switch. I suppose Apple TV is possible. Would Roku or Fire TV be possible? Playstation would be awesome, but will never happen.
 
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Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
This is some serious bullshit. Not unless they have some magical technology that nobody has.
wPhvJLi.jpg
 
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RPS37

RPS37

Member
Meowzers said:
Sounds promising.

I would guess 5Mbps would get you 720p. If it can give me 4K 60fps with HDR at around 18-20Mbps then consider me a customer!:messenger_grinning_squinting:
Click to expand...
Word! My response when reading the thread title was “wait is it HAPPENING??”
 
GoldenEye98

GoldenEye98

posts news as their odd job
RedVIper said:
1. Bandwith and ping are pretty unrelated, I upgraded to a 1Gbt internet and have the same ping that I had before with 30Mbps.

2.The bigger problem is inconsistency, having 100ms input lag in a game feels kinda bad but you'll get used to it after a while, having a game jump around between 20 and 70ms feels way worse. This isn't an issue when you stream movies because you can buffer ahead, there's no buffering games.

3.Unless they're planning on having servers next to everyone's house I'm calling bullshit on the 10ms.
Click to expand...

I'd have to imagine upload speed has an impact on input lag? My DL speed is 150Mbps but Upload is only like 15Mpbs....

That being said distance-to-data-center impacts a lot of this...and living in Canada my pings to a lot data centers aren't great.
 
Azelover

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
People are missing the point here. This technology might not be ideal for all games right now. Probably in the near future there will be games designed around the weaknesses this will currently have.

This is just the beginning of something that has a long future ahead of it. Maybe connections aren't fast enough now, but what about 3 or 5 years from now? Slowly but surely it's gonna eat up the whole market.
 
Hendrick's

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Can't wait for the future of console wars, where response time comparisons will be fiercely debated.
 
RedVIper

RedVIper

Banned
GoldenEye98 said:
I'd have to imagine upload speed has an impact on input lag? My DL speed is 150Mbps but Upload is only like 15Mpbs....

That being said distance-to-data-center impacts a lot of this...and living in Canada my pings to a lot data centers aren't great.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't. Unless your bandwith can't keep up, in which case the game would just freeze. It has nothing to do with ping.

In layman terms, imagine you're going on a trip, bandwith is how much shit you can take with you, ping is how fast you can get there.
 
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GoldenEye98

GoldenEye98

posts news as their odd job
RedVIper said:
It really doesn't. Unless your bandwith can't keep up, in which case the game would just freeze. It has nothing to do with ping.

In layman terms, imagine you're going on a trip, bandwith is how much shit you can take with you, ping is how fast you can get there.
Click to expand...

Right so it's mostly going to come down to how close you are to the data center. And Google's extensive geographic span of data centers is kind of irrelevant...it's only the data centers where they install this specific gaming hardware that's going to ultimately matter.
 
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Tesseract

Tesseract

Banned
i gotta call bullshit on below 10 ms, i don't see how that's possible without 5g

unless that's the implication, this is what 5g gives us

which is fine, but we're like 3 trillion short on 5g infrastructure right now
 
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GTR R35_Supra RZ

GTR R35_Supra RZ

Banned
Then Snookia has no chance, if that's legit what MS Xcloud pulling, Anaconda will be king nxt gen, wether you like it or not..Deal with it or get a 360.
 
T

Thanati

Member
Don’t forget that Microsoft promised ‘the cloud’ for gaming years ago but didn’t deliver. They also greenlit the Kinect demo.
 
SurprisedPikachu

SurprisedPikachu

Member
TeamGhobad said:
i have 1000mbit (according to my ISP) i will still never stream games. not happening.

people want dedicated gaming systems. i wonder if this cloud gaming will be the fad of this generation. every generation we've had a new fad, motion gaming, 3d, vr and now cloud. non of them were a success.
Click to expand...

VR still has a chance. I see zero reason to ever move to cloud gaming. I own a VR headset and it was honestly a great investment. No way I will get my moneys worth with Stadia or XCloud. Plus - I like owning PHYSICAL copies of my games. The only time I buy digital is if it is digital exclusive but then I download it to my console.
 
levyjl1988

levyjl1988

Banned
2020
The year of automated self driving cars, Games as a service, and more Amazon retail stores. More things delivered in the mail and food delivery. We really want that convenience.
 
T

Thanati

Member
RPS37 said:
Word! My response when reading the thread title was “wait is it HAPPENING??”
Click to expand...

There is no way they will get 4K at 5Mbps. It's just not possible (at the moment). Here's some basic stats:

720P
5Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
7.5Mbits/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

1080P
8Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
12Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

2K
16Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
24Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

4K
35-45Mbits [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
53-68Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]
 
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Hendrick's

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Thanati said:
There is no way they will get 4K at 5Mbps. It's just not possible (at the moment). Here's some basic stats:

720P
5Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
7.5Mbits/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

1080P
8Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
12Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

2K
16Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
24Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

4K
35-45Mbits [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
53-68Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]
Click to expand...
Are these based on uncompressed data? Because if so, it's meaningless.
 
T

Thanati

Member
Hendrick's said:
Are these based on uncompressed data? Because if so, it's meaningless.
Click to expand...

This is actually from Google's own recommendations.

So, you need at least 25Mbps in order to stream a 4K movie, for example (even though Amazon actually recommends 15, if i'm not mistaken). Now, take into account other people will also be using the connection and that will also have an impact on speed.

Based on this, there is no way MS will be able to get 4K down a 5Mbps connection. Well, they 'could', but it won't be playable, especially if someone in the same house suddenly decides to go on facebook :)
 
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Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
After so many smoke and mirrors, doctored videos, false promises with other things they hyped up in the past I won't believe shit coming out of Microsofts mouth or its partners until I see if for myself. As someone mentioned earlier their track record is abysmal.
 
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RPS37

RPS37

Member
Thanati said:
There is no way they will get 4K at 5Mbps. It's just not possible (at the moment). Here's some basic stats:

720P
5Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
7.5Mbits/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

1080P
8Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
12Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

2K
16Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
24Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

4K
35-45Mbits [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
53-68Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]
Click to expand...
It was all a lie.
 
Great Hair

Great Hair

Banned
TVs alone have around 20 to 40ms delay, your controller as well and then your connection to the server ... mianus 10ms!
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
I love all these streaming options, but unless someone talks to our internet and phone providers and raise my current "10GB a month for 90$", theres no way anyone (in canada) will ever be able to use this shit on the go.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Thanati said:
There is no way they will get 4K at 5Mbps. It's just not possible (at the moment). Here's some basic stats:

720P
5Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
7.5Mbits/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

1080P
8Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
12Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

2K
16Mbit/s [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
24Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]

4K
35-45Mbits [24FPS, 25FPS, 30FPS]
53-68Mbit/s [48FPS, 50FPS, 60FPS]
Click to expand...
Well for you go with YT/Netflix quality your stats are right :D
 
metareferential

metareferential

Member
Well, streaming from my xbox one x to my pc on my home cable 1gbit network was a shitshow. First and last time I've ever streamed a game.
 
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LuvOfThaGame

LuvOfThaGame

Banned
People need to understand context here. It's not 10ms total latency. The service itself has 10ms latency. So, my closest Azure server is usually around 13ms. That means I should expect at least 23ms of latency to the device. With a good monitor and controller input, I would be looking at 25-30ms on average which is perfectly reasonable in MP games and I see no reason why it would hinder SP unplayable. I might notice a slight delay if compared side by side to offline, but 30ms is damn near negligible to most.
 
N

NickFire

Member
Sony should pull out an old trick. Bring back the same two guys from the sharing games video at the E3 before PS4 and Xbox launched. Have one of them play a game, and the other unplug the internet. Then show the guy playing the game continue on his way when the internet is down.
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
NickFire said:
Sony should pull out an old trick. Bring back the same two guys from the sharing games video at the E3 before PS4 and Xbox launched. Have one of them play a game, and the other unplug the internet. Then show the guy playing the game continue on his way when the internet is down.
Click to expand...

That, in 2019, would definitely show the world how out of date they truly are.
 
ThatOneGrunt

ThatOneGrunt

Member
I get the feeling from a lot of people lately that even if there was zero input lag and no artifacts and no determinable difference from a console that was rendering locally, that many of you would still hate streaming.

I'm all for it. Take away storage limitations, need to download and install updates, being locked down to a specific iteration of console. just give me my games on whatever device I prefer at the time.
 
D

DanielsM

Banned
onehitflunder said:
TVs alone have around 20 to 40ms delay, your controller as well and then your connection to the server ... mianus 10ms!
Click to expand...
From the data centers we have near Washington we're seeing really good latency - less than 10 ms that's being added by the traversal to the cloud. -WC (I have WC blocked so can't read whole article)

That doesn't sound like they are talking just the processing on just their end, to me that sounds like they are saying the ping to the data center interface where the ping returns. So, you have that is just where the ping is returned (public interface, not necessarily final destination), not including processing the image, returning the image, decompressing the image. Of course, the monitor is going to have latency and it doesn't matter how you're gaming. I'm going to be very suspect if anyone can get the overall latency factor below 25ms, and that's with some great internet setup and very short distance to the particular data center, the vast majority of the population isn't even close to those if I were to guess, I have good internet and my first hop is 20ms. :) I stream in the house, and you can see and feel the input lag.

I'm getting 40-60ms from Azure with spikes up to 100-200m, I'm only 200 miles or so from the data center, although through the line I would have to go back and check the hops. I'm hitting the same one they are.

Of course, mobile is pretty much a no go anyway, because of low data caps.

I'm really not understanding who they think this is all for.
 
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Meowzers

Meowzers

Member
The Pleasure said:
4k with 18-20mbps? My 1080p blu rays are 25-40mbps. That's gonna be some shitty 4k at 20 mbps.
Click to expand...

Where I am it's only possible to get 80Mbps at the most. Sort of a rural area, but upgrading to that just for gaming sets you back another 20 at least. Plus streaming subscription fees AND games AND possibly multiplayer too.:messenger_smirking:

As it stands now I have zero issues on Xbox with multiplayer and streaming 4K videos on a cheap and reliable internet connection which is perfect and doesn't cost the earth.

I really do like the idea of streaming, so it still holds some interest for me. But having to scale down video game quality on something you know you can get better will keep Xbox and PS consoles going. I'd rather spend
400-500 on next-gen and know that's pretty much it until many years later. Streaming will eventually take over in many years so that's why it still holds an interest.
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The weakness is that streaming only works as a sales/distribution model for certain types of games.

The need for monetization is going to become readily apparent very quickly. On a revenue stream based on per-hour playtime its going to take a long, long time to generate an adequate ROI compared to standard sales, and if the game design isn't suited to this.... Good luck but you are probably fucked.

Google have already announced that they will never offer offline play, which really puts the kibosh on the value-proposition of "buying" a game for Stadia, as opposed to other distributors. I anticipate this will be the key differentiator for XCloud, (offline play on their hardware) but again the same issues as to what sort of product is going to be viable in this environment still apply.

The tech is the least important aspect of these developments; Just like what happened with mobile, success is going to be predicated in the long term on creating product tailored for usage.
 
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