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[Lanrutcon]

So here's a thought: Souls DLC is generally a lot harder than the base game.

Uh oh.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

How is performance on PS4 amateur?
Can't believe this is the first time I'm reading about this game!

E: let's say I didn't mind bloodborne issues to much. How it compares?

It's what I play on. Same issues as BB and DS3, but improved a bit. I never noticed the frame pacing as much as those games, and seems to be a solid 30FPS most the time.

 

[Secret_Lover]

Anybody else not too hot on the soundtrack? Seems very samey to me, I was always waiting for some Bloodborne-tier boss music to show up and it never did.

 

[Punished Miku]

Man I am loving this game more than any other souls game.

I love the thrill of finding new secrets and ocassionally fluking a boss on the first go is very enriching.
I badly need to master that Mikami counter though. Even during the training sessions I botch it.

Hit it very early. The window is huge.

 

[kraspkibble]

i actually hate lady butterfly. i know what to do but her fucking butterfly attacks are bullshit. also i don't know if it's my controller but a lot of the time nothing happens when try to block or use the prosthetic. my controller is working fine in other games so i don't know. i'm so angry right now with this game.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Anybody else not too hot on the soundtrack? Seems very samey to me, I was always waiting for some Bloodborne-tier boss music to show up and it never did.

I thought Lady Butterfly was pretty good, but the music in this game does have a bit of "it's music and it's there" vibe.

 

[tassletine]

It's a ton more fun than Nioh in my opinion. Nioh had seriously the ugliest most generic levels.

I enjoyed my time with nioh but this evolved the formula. You may be able to argue combat but getting around the world and the level design is a lot better in Sekiro.

I'd say that's the only thing the game does better than others.

What stuttering? I have seen only one moment of stutter and that was very early on killing base enemies. Every boss has been stutter free.



What endless boss fights? Each fight lasts 5-7 minutes at most (which I can count how many bosses took that long on a single hand) - which is pretty dang short. If you are taking longer, then you are doing something wrong.



You can make any game's gameplay sound overly simple when you state it in the broadest possible terms. Devil May Cry, all you do is spam the attack button with the occasional gun or grab. Forza, all you do is press RT and LT with the occasional button press to reverse time. Not every battle is the same. Owl does not play the same as Demon of Hatred. Guardian Ape does not play the same as the Giant Carp. Lady Butterfly does not play the same as Genichirou. If you are spending hours of "homework" and doing "trial and error" - you are playing the game incorrectly and need to stop blaming it and blame yourself.



Sounds like you suck at the game, continuously blame it instead of yourself, and rage quit.

I suck at the main game. I suck at some of the bosses. The rest of the game plays well, so I'm here to complain about the imbalance with certain bosses as I consider it a flaw.
It annoys me that the game gets praise for mechanics that are considred poor in other games.

The only bosses I've had problems with were (are) The chained Ogre and Genichiro Ashina. I've cleared out 95% of the rest of the area (bar one boss and the sections after Genichiro).

I consider a long boss fight the length that you're talking about (5-7 minutes). Every boss I've encountered in Souls is 1-3 mins at most. I simply don't enjoy playing boss fights / rhythm games for this long.
DMC is far more complicated and fluid than the fighting in Sekiro so comparing it doesn't ring true. The combat here is more like Batman or a similar title on a harder difficulty setting.

I think the main problem I'm having is that the game isn't designed for a fast play style. Whenever I try to play is quickly and actually react like I would in other fighting games (not souls obviously) all I see are poor hitboxes. When I slow down, the game is managable, but I get bored and lose patience. I am well aware that this is precise skill the game is testing you on but I'm not down for that. A one minute boss fight x30 is half an hour. A 7 minute boss x 30 is is 3/12 hours. That's serious time wasted, far more than I'm willing to spend on one task.

So, I've decided that because the game is seriously unbalanced, and that ithey've artificially extended it's playtime, to stop playing for now.

I'm very interested in what Activision will do with the DLC as From usually release late game content -- Something I seriously doubt will happen here, because most players won't be able to access it.

 

[tassletine]

I personally never felt cheated in any of Sekiro’s bosses. Most my death came from reading enemy’s attack wrong.

For me Sekiro’s combat felt very satisfying. I played the demo for Nioh and I honestly vastly prefer Sekiro’s combat.

Fair enough. The combat in Sekiro is satisfying.
I wouldn't judge Nioh on the demo though. The combat is responsive rich and deep. The only real problem with that game is that the locations are limited and it gets pretty repetitive by the end.

 

[mcjmetroid]

I'd say that's the only thing the game does better than others.


I suck at the main game. I suck at some of the bosses. The rest of the game plays well, so I'm here to complain about the imbalance with certain bosses as I consider it a flaw.
It annoys me that the game gets praise for mechanics that are considred poor in other games.

The only bosses I've had problems with were (are) The chained Ogre and Genichiro Ashina. I've cleared out 95% of the rest of the area (bar one boss and the sections after Genichiro).

I consider a long boss fight the length that you're talking about (5-7 minutes). Every boss I've encountered in Souls is 1-3 mins at most. I simply don't enjoy playing boss fights / rhythm games for this long.
DMC is far more complicated and fluid than the fighting in Sekiro so comparing it doesn't ring true. The combat here is more like Batman or a similar title on a harder difficulty setting.

I think the main problem I'm having is that the game isn't designed for a fast play style. Whenever I try to play is quickly and actually react like I would in other fighting games (not souls obviously) all I see are poor hitboxes. When I slow down, the game is managable, but I get bored and lose patience. I am well aware that this is precise skill the game is testing you on but I'm not down for that. A one minute boss fight x30 is half an hour. A 7 minute boss x 30 is is 3/12 hours. That's serious time wasted, far more than I'm willing to spend on one task.

So, I've decided that because the game is seriously unbalanced, and that ithey've artificially extended it's playtime, to stop playing for now.

I'm very interested in what Activision will do with the DLC as From usually release late game content -- Something I seriously doubt will happen here, because most players won't be able to access it.

I have to say I'm flying through this game. Last night I found 6 different sculptor idols.
I'd say it's very designed for a fast play style thanks mostly to the grappling hook in combination with the stealth aspect. If you're good enough you no longer need to even fight enemies.
Also you can sprint in this game a lot faster than in most action games. The grappling hook also makes it extremely easy to avoid enemies if you need to in most cases especially when you're outdoors.
It's unfair to compare it to DMC because as far as I know DMC is a linear action game and linear games can always balance things better because they know where the player will go and what they will do next.

Also boss balance: there's always an item that you can get to help you in another area if you just explore around such as the Shinobi Firecracker.
This game is designed around the idea that if a boss is too much for you, you can always come back to it later in most of the cases anyway. Once you get to around 5 hours into the game it really opens up and allows you to go your own way. There's always other options if you're finding a boss too hard. Like right now I have about 6 different potential bosses on standby and I'm still pressing on into new areas until I'm confidence I can face them properly.

 

[mcjmetroid]

i actually hate lady butterfly. i know what to do but her fucking butterfly attacks are bullshit. also i don't know if it's my controller but a lot of the time nothing happens when try to block or use the prosthetic. my controller is working fine in other games so i don't know. i'm so angry right now with this game.

My tip with this one is when the before the apparitions appear try and lure the shadow creatures to one side of the room and go to the opposite side behind a pillar, the butterflies should hit the wall and you don't even have to bother fighting the shadows.

Thing about Lady butterfly is she's actually very easy without the butterflies attacking. You can block most of the attacks. Literally just keep blocking don't parry or anything and hit her with the "whirlwind slash" when she stops moving.

It took me a while even with this though and I'm sure others have a better strategy but just remember keep blocking!

 

[tassletine]

Blaming the game for sucking at it is a DSP move. ;b

I thought, at the very least I was giving some sort of critcism of how the mechanics fail in this game. Do you guys realise you can turn any game up to extreme and get gameplay that's comparable to this?

Games are usually judged somewhat on their accessability/ programming so why is it different here? Why do From get a free pass, when other companies get marked down?

 

[tassletine]

So here's a thought: Souls DLC is generally a lot harder than the base game.

Uh oh.

I think they're going to have an extremely hard time selling it, especially if it's their usual late game DLC.

 

[tassletine]

I have to say I'm flying through this game. Last night I found 6 different sculptor idols.
I'd say it's very designed for a fast play style thanks mostly to the grappling hook in combination with the stealth aspect. If you're good enough you no longer need to even fight enemies.
Also you can sprint in this game a lot faster than in most action games. The grappling hook also makes it extremely easy to avoid enemies if you need to in most cases especially when you're outdoors.
It's unfair to compare it to DMC because as far as I know DMC is a linear action game and linear games can always balance things better because they know where the player will go and what they will do next.

Also boss balance: there's always an item that you can get to help you in another area if you just explore around such as the Shinobi Firecracker.
This game is designed around the idea that if a boss is too much for you, you can always come back to it later in most of the cases anyway. Once you get to around 5 hours into the game it really opens up and allows you to go your own way. There's always other options if you're finding a boss too hard. Like right now I have about 6 different potential bosses on standby and I'm still pressing on into new areas until I'm confidence I can face them properly.

Thanks for your help but I'm talking about specific boss battles, and combat. I don't really have any problems with the rest of the game. It's pretty easy.
It sounds like I'm ahead of you as I felt the same way a few days ago. I'm at a boss that needs to be completed in order to advance.

 

[ghairat]

Ok, I have beaten this game and it didn't take me a long time to realize that guarding is very important in this game, and also not to play this game as if it was bloodborne. Sure dodging is very important and also doing dodges diagonally to the right or left against your enemies is key, guarding can help you in a lot of situations. Especially a certain enemy in the Ashina castle

 

[MadYarpen]

It's what I play on. Same issues as BB and DS3, but improved a bit. I never noticed the frame pacing as much as those games, and seems to be a solid 30FPS most the time.

Thanks, so I should be fine.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Games are usually judged somewhat on their accessability

no they aren't.

not every game is for every person. i don't get this need to make every game accessible to every player.

Yoshi's Crafted World is dead easy. that's ok! not a flaw of the game, a feature. this is super hard. that's ok! not a flaw. i don't want these games to be altered so that everyYoshi's Crafted World player can play through Sekiro. they are two different games. there doesn't need to be a Sekiro-hard option in Yoshi's Crafted World. again, two different games.

every art medium ever offers a full range of experiences. you have simple short films and you have long ass magnum opuses with intermissions. you have simple folk music and you have full symphony orchestras or prog rock. you have simple line drawings that can be done in an instant and on the other end you have oil paintings that take years to make. play dough vs marble sculptures, community theater vs broadway, etc. etc.

this idea that every game needs to appeal to every player is ridiculous. again, even in gaming world there are many experiences. in playing cards you have War and Go Fish and then you have more complicated things like Bridge or Rummy. in baseball you have little leagues for kids, soft ball, farm leagues, on up to the Majors. nobody complains that major league baseball is inaccessible to little leaguers. basketball can be played 2-on-2, or a simple game of HORSE, or you can play major league full court. there is room for all types of play.

honestly im tired of people complaining about difficulty. especially when they turn around and claim "the rest of the game is easy". at that point you don't even have a coherent argument.

 

[kraspkibble]

YES!!! i finally beat Lady Butterfly!

i was trying to block all of her attacks which was overloading my posture. dodging around her made it much easier and she didn't get much time to attack. it damaged her posture much faster this way. fighting her is so much easier that way. i didn't even bother fighting the apparitions so just ran around the room letting the butterflies hit the pillars. it was the butterfly attacks she'd make when fighting her that was messing me up.

so glad that she's out the way now! been at it for hours. now i'm just above the leave the area of the horse boss battle. also managed to upgrade my gourd and cure everyone of dragon rot so things are going well now! for how long i wonder....

 

[mcjmetroid]

Thanks for your help but I'm talking about specific boss battles, and combat. I don't really have any problems with the rest of the game. It's pretty easy.
It sounds like I'm ahead of you as I felt the same way a few days ago. I'm at a boss that needs to be completed in order to advance.

You could very well be. I tend to have good days and bad days with these games so I'll probably be copying and pasting you tonight.

 

[Makariel]

I consider a long boss fight the length that you're talking about (5-7 minutes). Every boss I've encountered in Souls is 1-3 mins at most. I simply don't enjoy playing boss fights / rhythm games for this long.

Interesting, have you typically over-levelled your character in Souls games? I regularly had fights much longer than 3 minutes in Souls games. I think Kalameet took me about 10 minutes straight the first time I got him. In Nioh I also had a number of bosses that took me beyond 3 minutes: Onryoki, Nue, Umi-Bozu, Joro-Gumo, Gasha-dokuro, Ishida Mitsunari, Oda Nobunaga and Yamata-no-orochi (Centipede took me more than 15 but that was because I was being stupid, so I don't count that). A few of them were longer than 5 minutes. The only way I could significanty shorten these was by over-levelling and going in with an optimized build and much stronger weapon. By the end my character was so ridiculously overpowered that no "fight" took longer than a minute, doing my usual routine and ripping the boss apart, but before that it was rather tactical and I needed to concentrate and read the animations correctly.

I think the main problem I'm having is that the game isn't designed for a fast play style. Whenever I try to play is quickly and actually react like I would in other fighting games (not souls obviously) all I see are poor hitboxes. When I slow down, the game is managable, but I get bored and lose patience.

I don't see poor hitboxes, what I see is that you might simply be too impatient for the game? Not every game needs to cater to everyone. For example, I really tried to get into the Bayonetta series, since the games seemed to be a lot of fun, but I simply don't gel with it. I think it plays horrible, but that is just the rhytm of the game not matching mine.

 

[V4skunk]

The most useful tip I can give to people who are struggling!
Use the L1 guard like the shield in Souls.
Start mashing the guard button when an enemy hits you! Even if you miss the deflect your guard will absorb the blows. From frantically mashing guard you can eventually learn to time actual deflects.
You can face tank anything like this, even fuck up the guy in the dojo with ease in less than a minute.

 

[Shifty]

Do you guys realise you can turn any game up to extreme and get gameplay that's comparable to this?

Excuse me sir, I believe you dropped your "I don't have a clue about game design" club membership card.

 

[v0mitg0d]

Ok, I know some folks heave beaten him in a few tries, but it took me more than 6 hours (then I had to walk away and come back the next day and try again!) to beat Genichiro. I'm not kidding when I say he was one of the hardest bosses in a video game.

...but man that victory was glorious. So, for folks having a tough time with him I threw everything I learned into a video. No cheese (I'm aware of Shadow rush), this is beating him using the basics.

Hope it helps someone--he's amazingly challenging for some of us!

 

[tassletine]

Excuse me sir, I believe you dropped your "I don't have a clue about game design" club membership card.

Prove it.

The best fighting games have better hitboxes, don't rely on constant finishing animations to impress, have better AI (like ones where the bosses don't fall off cliffs for instance) and certainly don't have frame rates like this. I'm calling this one out. It's a combination of From art direction and Activision forcing them into a more mainstream design.

 

[Fuz]

The monkey is boring. He's not even hard. He has way too many HP and getting to phase 2 over and over to learn is boring as fuck.

Edit: to expand on this, I beat it after a few hours of tries. In the end, I was perfecting phase 1 easily. And it took like 30 minutes of fight (coward fighting mastered) to kill it. Boring as fuck. He really has way, WAY too many HP, especially in that annoying phase 2. Phase 1 is super fun once you learn it, toh. But knowing that you have to get though it to learn phase 2 is just demoralizing. Reading the thread I've spoiled myself how many phases the last boss has. Yeah, I don't see myself having the patience to kill it.

 

[tassletine]

Interesting, have you typically over-levelled your character in Souls games? I regularly had fights much longer than 3 minutes in Souls games. I think Kalameet took me about 10 minutes straight the first time I got him. In Nioh I also had a number of bosses that took me beyond 3 minutes: Onryoki, Nue, Umi-Bozu, Joro-Gumo, Gasha-dokuro, Ishida Mitsunari, Oda Nobunaga and Yamata-no-orochi (Centipede took me more than 15 but that was because I was being stupid, so I don't count that). A few of them were longer than 5 minutes. The only way I could significanty shorten these was by over-levelling and going in with an optimized build and much stronger weapon. By the end my character was so ridiculously overpowered that no "fight" took longer than a minute, doing my usual routine and ripping the boss apart, but before that it was rather tactical and I needed to concentrate and read the animations correctly.


I don't see poor hitboxes, what I see is that you might simply be too impatient for the game? Not every game needs to cater to everyone. For example, I really tried to get into the Bayonetta series, since the games seemed to be a lot of fun, but I simply don't gel with it. I think it plays horrible, but that is just the rhytm of the game not matching mine.

No. I just like speedy, agressive play. I've never fought Kalameet though. I've met him but was at the end of the game at that point so didn't fight him just for the sake of it.

The only time I've ever got stumped like this in Souls was on a playthrough of DS3 as a dex build. Game was easy up until Aldrich, Devourer of Gods, where dex build was useless. At that point he one shotted you with every attack, which if you remember is quite tough as you have to be very good with the camera and he's quite aggressive. I considered that part badly playtested as it was such a roadblock and not in line with the experience that other builds gave you.

Even so I beat him. But Seikro has less room for error -- which is why I think the game isn't balanced properly. I sincerely believe that, despite the difficulty, From wasn't out to punish people THIS much, right at the start of the game.

 

[JimiNutz]

YES!!! i finally beat Lady Butterfly!

i was trying to block all of her attacks which was overloading my posture. dodging around her made it much easier and she didn't get much time to attack. it damaged her posture much faster this way. fighting her is so much easier that way. i didn't even bother fighting the apparitions so just ran around the room letting the butterflies hit the pillars. it was the butterfly attacks she'd make when fighting her that was messing me up.

so glad that she's out the way now! been at it for hours. now i'm just above the leave the area of the horse boss battle. also managed to upgrade my gourd and cure everyone of dragon rot so things are going well now! for how long i wonder....

Well done!
I still haven't gone back to her but it was her butterfly attacks that were fucking me as well. I went and did Horse and Bull boss (both of which were pretty easy). I may go back to her today.

 

[Shifty]

Prove it.

Burden of proof lies with the accuser. You're going to need to provide evidence that cranking the numbers in any old game is going to result in something that plays like Sekiro if you want to make such a claim.

The best fighting games have better hitboxes, don't rely on constant finishing animations to impress, have better AI (like ones where the bosses don't fall off cliffs for instance) and certainly don't have frame rates like this. I'm calling this one out. It's a combination of From art direction and Activision forcing them into a more mainstream design.

Literally none of these are relevant to my calling you out for making a stupid claim about difficulty. Address the first point, and then perhaps we can move on to discussion of further game elements.

 

[Graciaus]

Surprisingly I didn't have much trouble with genichiro. Outside of when he uses the multi shot bow his stuff was easy to parry and dodge. He doesn't have much hp and as long as you stay 100% aggressive and parry his combo all phases go pretty quick. Once you back away all hell breaks loose.

 

[tassletine]

no they aren't.

not every game is for every person. i don't get this need to make every game accessible to every player.

Yoshi's Crafted World is dead easy. that's ok! not a flaw of the game, a feature. this is super hard. that's ok! not a flaw. i don't want these games to be altered so that everyYoshi's Crafted World player can play through Sekiro. they are two different games. there doesn't need to be a Sekiro-hard option in Yoshi's Crafted World. again, two different games.

every art medium ever offers a full range of experiences. you have simple short films and you have long ass magnum opuses with intermissions. you have simple folk music and you have full symphony orchestras or prog rock. you have simple line drawings that can be done in an instant and on the other end you have oil paintings that take years to make. play dough vs marble sculptures, community theater vs broadway, etc. etc.

this idea that every game needs to appeal to every player is ridiculous. again, even in gaming world there are many experiences. in playing cards you have War and Go Fish and then you have more complicated things like Bridge or Rummy. in baseball you have little leagues for kids, soft ball, farm leagues, on up to the Majors. nobody complains that major league baseball is inaccessible to little leaguers. basketball can be played 2-on-2, or a simple game of HORSE, or you can play major league full court. there is room for all types of play.

honestly im tired of people complaining about difficulty. especially when they turn around and claim "the rest of the game is easy". at that point you don't even have a coherent argument.

You need to pay closer attention to what I wrote. "Usually" and "somewhat" aren't hard facts to be argued with. Games ARE usually discussed in terms of their accesibility, and whilst this has been advertised as tough, I haven't seen anyone talk about it being this innacessible, except by the public.

This game has mostly been given a free pass by reviewers because of the hype when they should be pointing out it's problems (IGN even said it was easy) --mainly that the bosses take hours to defeat, and there technical issues with the framerate that get in the way of play -- and because both of these are well known problems for a lot of gamers, this should have been highlighted. Saying 'git good' doesn't make actual gameplay issues disappear.

I completely agree that games should be made at different skill levels so I can't discuss that -- But the rest of the game IS easy compared to some boss fights. 95% of my game has been spent with those. The majorioty of the game you can play just running round, cheesing people, or stealthing it, or fighting slowly as the game wants. Either way I opened up the map pretty quickly.

If I'd bought an indie title I would expect it to have some of these issues. But a full price AAA game? For that I want a gaming experience that scales with my skill level like other From titles
And that's for the simple reason that scaling a game requires skill from the programmers. Just throwing in varying difficulty levels like this seems lazy and I can't just accept any game that suddenly STOPS for a five hour boss fight, no more than I can stand a film that just stops for a hour close up of Gwenth Paltrows nose, or an hour long drum solo at a gig.

It's indulgent and padding at it's worst.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I'm a bit stuck now.

Spoiler

I just killed Corrupted Monk and gained the ability to dive underwater. I found the rock in the cave behind the boss room and tried to offer it in that little shrine thingy, but I can't do anything there. So I thought I'd just give it to Kuro, but his chamber, and in fact the entirety of Ashina Castle is locked. I can't get in there. I found some old granny saying a war was coming near the Castle Gate Idol, but otherwise I haven't been able to find much else going on. I killed all the spooky bosses I could find in the meantime (Including a new one where the headless ape and its buddy used to be) but I've absolutely no clue where to go now. Any tips as to where I should go?

 

[LaughingStock]

I'm a bit stuck now.

Spoiler

I just killed Corrupted Monk and gained the ability to dive underwater. I found the rock in the cave behind the boss room and tried to offer it in that little shrine thingy, but I can't do anything there. So I thought I'd just give it to Kuro, but his chamber, and in fact the entirety of Ashina Castle is locked. I can't get in there. I found some old granny saying a war was coming near the Castle Gate Idol, but otherwise I haven't been able to find much else going on. I killed all the spooky bosses I could find in the meantime (Including a new one where the headless ape and its buddy used to be) but I've absolutely no clue where to go now. Any tips as to where I should go?

Spoiler

You need to make your way through the castle again and reactivate the idols. The divine heir is in the same place he was before. You need to talk to him. Travel to the abandoned dungeon. I'm not sure if that's the right name. But you can access the castle area from there. There will be new enemies to fight too.

 

[EviLore]

I can't just accept any game that suddenly STOPS for a five hour boss fight, no more than I can stand a film that just stops for a hour close up of Gwenth Paltrows nose, or an hour long drum solo at a gig.

There are no five hour boss fights unless you suck. It's your responsibility to get better if you suck, and the game provides all the tools to facilitate getting better and overcoming its challenges.

It's not the game's fault that you're bad. It's your fault. Sekiro's challenges are fair. Get better or give up.

 

[tassletine]

Burden of proof lies with the accuser. You're going to need to provide evidence that cranking the numbers in any old game is going to result in something that plays like Sekiro if you want to make such a claim.


Literally none of these are relevant to my calling you out for making a stupid claim about difficulty. Address the first point, and then perhaps we can move on to discussion of further game elements.

Well, given that every game play's a bit differently, I think you just want to argue. We're going to be splitting hairs forvever if we go down that route.

I'll try and explain though. The main feeling I get from Sekiro is swinging down to ambush someone (that's Batman). You can also button mash most of the enemies most of the time.
The hitboxes aren't great, they're okay but a bit wird. You can get hit through walls. It's not very precise. It relies excessively on 'ding' quicktime events.

These are all things that you find in other games -- And when you turn the difficulty up in those games, the games gets harder but the simplicity of the core game remains. That's how Sekiro plays.

In comparison, in the best fighting games (dmc, Bayonetta) The average difficulty setting plays like the above, but when you increase the diffculty, the game opens up and requires you to absolutely master the controls. But in Sekiro the only difficulty setting in hard -- And the gameplay is simple but tough, like those titles.

I don't like this, as there are lots of games out there with simple but tough gameplay. You just need to play on a harder setting to get that feeling.
This sort of simplicity is really not what From excel at, and it's just not what I'm after, but I guess it's what Activision wanted.

I'm glad you're enjoying it.

 

[LaughingStock]

There are no five hour boss fights unless you suck. It's your responsibility to get better if you suck, and the game provides all the tools to facilitate getting better and overcoming its challenges.

It's not the game's fault that you're bad. It's your fault. Sekiro's challenges are fair. Get better or give up.

Git gud? That's toxic bruh.

But ain't that the ugly truth? This game demands that you learn boss fights. Unlike previous games.

Genishiro and owl were imposible at first. But when i finally beat them i noticed how easy those fights were.

How i feel when i beat a boss i was struggling with:

 

[Makariel]

No. I just like speedy, agressive play.

i.e. mashing buttons until boss falls over? ;-)

The only time I've ever got stumped like this in Souls was on a playthrough of DS3 as a dex build. Game was easy up until Aldrich, Devourer of Gods, where dex build was useless. At that point he one shotted you with every attack, which if you remember is quite tough as you have to be very good with the camera and he's quite aggressive. I considered that part badly playtested as it was such a roadblock and not in line with the experience that other builds gave you.

We must have been playing very different games, since I always played Dex builds for my first go in any Souls game and had not much more problems with Aldrich than with any of the other bosses. I can't remember a single boss one-shotting my character in Dark Souls 3?

But Seikro has less room for error -- which is why I think the game isn't balanced properly.

I'm apparently not a gaming genius as you are, since I don't consider most of the game "too easy", but then I also don't think a few encounters would be "too hard". So far I've found the game very consistent with it's inclination of beating the shit out of me. But with every enemy, mini-boss and boss it's getting better and I find the difficulty quite well managed. Every time I hit a wall there is another area to explore and when I come back the wall from before is surmountable. So far the difficulty curve has been excellent, much better managed than the Souls series for example, where there was always the risk of either being overlevelled or underlevelled for an area. Sekiro relies much more on player skill than character stats and expects you to learn it. You seem to think the game needs to adapt itself to your playstyle not the other way round?

This sort of simplicity is really not what From excel at, and it's just not what I'm after, but I guess it's what Activision wanted.

Previous From games always had rather simple combat systems at their core, I don't see how Activision would have anything to do with this?

 

[Ivellios]

You need to pay closer attention to what I wrote. "Usually" and "somewhat" aren't hard facts to be argued with. Games ARE usually discussed in terms of their accesibility, and whilst this has been advertised as tough, I haven't seen anyone talk about it being this innacessible, except by the public.

This game has mostly been given a free pass by reviewers because of the hype when they should be pointing out it's problems (IGN even said it was easy) --mainly that the bosses take hours to defeat, and there technical issues with the framerate that get in the way of play -- and because both of these are well known problems for a lot of gamers, this should have been highlighted. Saying 'git good' doesn't make actual gameplay issues disappear.

I completely agree that games should be made at different skill levels so I can't discuss that -- But the rest of the game IS easy compared to some boss fights. 95% of my game has been spent with those. The majorioty of the game you can play just running round, cheesing people, or stealthing it, or fighting slowly as the game wants. Either way I opened up the map pretty quickly.

If I'd bought an indie title I would expect it to have some of these issues. But a full price AAA game? For that I want a gaming experience that scales with my skill level like other From titles
And that's for the simple reason that scaling a game requires skill from the programmers. Just throwing in varying difficulty levels like this seems lazy and I can't just accept any game that suddenly STOPS for a five hour boss fight, no more than I can stand a film that just stops for a hour close up of Gwenth Paltrows nose, or an hour long drum solo at a gig.

It's indulgent and padding at it's worst.

Contrary to what i believed at first, the game does give you plenty of options to get stronger in order to face a tough boss later.

So if you are really stuck on a boss, perhaps its better to explore and level up your skills, collect prayer beads (you can get a few of them outside mini bosses) and upgrade your prothestics and come back to face him later. There are also plenty of videos that helps you understand the boss fights better as well.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

I put the troll on ignore. This pointless argument shitting up an otherwise good thread. Maybe make a separate thread to complain about that if u want. Difficult spikes were in the first Demons Souls released ten years ago. Get over it

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I put the troll on ignore. This pointless argument shitting up an otherwise good thread. Maybe make a separate thread to complain about that if u want. Difficult spikes were in the first Demons Souls released ten years ago. Get over it

It is kind of annoying. Despite the bluster it just seems to amount to "I'm not very good, this game is flawed".

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Finished up the remainder of the mini bosses and a secret boss.

Spoiler: Boss Video

Phase 2 is super annoying, oof that camera.

Although I missed a single mini boss, that only appears at the Great Serpent Shrine during late game but disappears at end game, and so am missing a single prayer bead for full life. Really sucks.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I'd say that's the only thing the game does better than others.


I suck at the main game. I suck at some of the bosses. The rest of the game plays well, so I'm here to complain about the imbalance with certain bosses as I consider it a flaw.
It annoys me that the game gets praise for mechanics that are considred poor in other games.

The only bosses I've had problems with were (are) The chained Ogre and Genichiro Ashina. I've cleared out 95% of the rest of the area (bar one boss and the sections after Genichiro).

I consider a long boss fight the length that you're talking about (5-7 minutes). Every boss I've encountered in Souls is 1-3 mins at most. I simply don't enjoy playing boss fights / rhythm games for this long.
DMC is far more complicated and fluid than the fighting in Sekiro so comparing it doesn't ring true. The combat here is more like Batman or a similar title on a harder difficulty setting.

I think the main problem I'm having is that the game isn't designed for a fast play style. Whenever I try to play is quickly and actually react like I would in other fighting games (not souls obviously) all I see are poor hitboxes. When I slow down, the game is managable, but I get bored and lose patience. I am well aware that this is precise skill the game is testing you on but I'm not down for that. A one minute boss fight x30 is half an hour. A 7 minute boss x 30 is is 3/12 hours. That's serious time wasted, far more than I'm willing to spend on one task.

So, I've decided that because the game is seriously unbalanced, and that ithey've artificially extended it's playtime, to stop playing for now.

I'm very interested in what Activision will do with the DLC as From usually release late game content -- Something I seriously doubt will happen here, because most players won't be able to access it.

The game isn't unbalanced. Most boss fights don't last 5-7 minutes, as I just said. I can name the number of bosses that do on a *single hand*. Most last 1-3 minutes, just like any previous soulsbourne release.

As for gameplay, I simply used DMCV as an example of how idiotic it is to broadly describe a game in the manner you did with Sekiro. This was blatantly obvious and if you couldn't understand that, then that is entirely on you.

The game is absolutely designed with fast gameplay in mind, which only further shows how you don't know how to actually play the game and make up silly claims like how they "artificially made the game longer". Not a single boss in NG or NG+ has taken me over 30 tries.

 

[Kamina]

Ok, so I just got to

Spoiler

demon of hatred

And I’m about to throw my pad through the tv...

https://tenor.com/QBzy.gif

Smacked by controller against the wall because of that boss. Controller is undsmaged, wall has a notch.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

 

[Danjin44]

To me Sekiro's boss perfectly balanced, like I said before most my death came from reading enemies moves wrong and this what this game is all about. You need to read what your enemy about to do and respond with proper counter.

The only boss I didn't like was......

Spoiler

chasing those three monkeys, also didn't like that guy with the cage hat that you need to chase in Bloodborne.

Also...

Spoiler

.its funny that the first ending I got in Sekiro is similar the the first ending I got for Bloodborne. Same way MC in Bloodborne takes over Gehrman and here the Wolf taking over for Sculptor.

 

[Ivellios]

Yesterday i think i died 20+ times to the Owl and could not beat him no matter what.

Today i beat him on my second try without using any ress.

Sometimes the best approach to a boss is to just rest a little after learning how to fight him.

 

[Thing on a Spring]

Yesterday i think i died 20+ times to the Owl and could not beat him no matter what.

Today i beat him on my second try without using any ress.

Sometimes the best approach to a boss is to just rest a little after learning how to fight him.

I decided to do this 5 minutes ago. I know I can beat him but I need to go in fresh tomorrow.

Slapped O'rin about earlier so it wasn't all bad this evening. Also went swimming and

Spoiler

found that weird surgeon bloke again. I sent some guy down to him earlier but he basically told me to piss off this time. I eavesdropped and heard him plotting against me. No doubt I'll see him again at some point.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Killed the bull. In Ashina castle now. I know I’m going slow but I’m loving this game so far interspersed with the division 2. Truly a great time for gaming.

 

[Fuz]

Yesterday i think i died 20+ times to the Owl and could not beat him no matter what.

Today i beat him on my second try without using any ress.

Sometimes the best approach to a boss is to just rest a little after learning how to fight him.

This always happens with Souls games.

I remember in DS1, got to NG+ and headed for the 4 kings kind of early (trying to get the skull armor, don't remember its name). Got there all confident since I was breezing through the game up to that point. Died a lot and thoght I couldn't do it because I lacked damage. "Fuck this", and I stopped playing altogether for a few months. Then, a few months later, I load the game, die once at the kings, change 1-2 things in my gear and kill them on my second try, easily. "I had trouble with this?"
Weird that Souls games are the only ones where this happens.

P.S.
Guys, use spoilers when referring to a boss, especially if it's the only plot twist.

 

[Ivellios]

I decided to do this 5 minutes ago. I know I can beat him but I need to go in fresh tomorrow.

Slapped O'rin about earlier so it wasn't all bad this evening. Also went swimming and

Spoiler

found that weird surgeon bloke again. I sent some guy down to him earlier but he basically told me to piss off this time. I eavesdropped and heard him plotting against me. No doubt I'll see him again at some point.

Im actually stuck at this boss now, she just breaks my posture far too fast.

Where did you swin to find the npc in your spoiler tag?

This always happens with Souls games.

I remember in DS1, got to NG++ and headed for the 4 kings kind of early (trying to get the skull armor, don't remember its name). Got there all confident since I was breezing through the game up to that point. Died a lot and thoght I couldn't do it because I lacked damage. "Fuck this", and I stopped playing altogether for a few months. Then, a few months later I load the game, die once at the kinds, change 1-2 things in my gear and kill them on my second try, easily. "I had trouble with this?"
Weird that Souls games are the only ones where this happens.

P.S.
Guys, use spoilers when referring to a boss, especially if it's the only plot twist.

Yeah, i remember something similar happening sometimes on Bloodborne as well.

As for the spoiler, im really sorry, i was using the spoiler tag for every boss but since everyone just stopped using it i did not bother as well. I actually discovered that you fight this boss by accident reading this thread...

 

[Virex]

I'd say that's the only thing the game does better than others.


I suck at the main game. I suck at some of the bosses. The rest of the game plays well, so I'm here to complain about the imbalance with certain bosses as I consider it a flaw.
It annoys me that the game gets praise for mechanics that are considred poor in other games.

The only bosses I've had problems with were (are) The chained Ogre and Genichiro Ashina. I've cleared out 95% of the rest of the area (bar one boss and the sections after Genichiro).

I consider a long boss fight the length that you're talking about (5-7 minutes). Every boss I've encountered in Souls is 1-3 mins at most. I simply don't enjoy playing boss fights / rhythm games for this long.
DMC is far more complicated and fluid than the fighting in Sekiro so comparing it doesn't ring true. The combat here is more like Batman or a similar title on a harder difficulty setting.

I think the main problem I'm having is that the game isn't designed for a fast play style. Whenever I try to play is quickly and actually react like I would in other fighting games (not souls obviously) all I see are poor hitboxes. When I slow down, the game is managable, but I get bored and lose patience. I am well aware that this is precise skill the game is testing you on but I'm not down for that. A one minute boss fight x30 is half an hour. A 7 minute boss x 30 is is 3/12 hours. That's serious time wasted, far more than I'm willing to spend on one task.

So, I've decided that because the game is seriously unbalanced, and that ithey've artificially extended it's playtime, to stop playing for now.

I'm very interested in what Activision will do with the DLC as From usually release late game content -- Something I seriously doubt will happen here, because most players won't be able to access it.

It's time to........GIT GUD

 

[Thing on a Spring]

Where did you swin to find the npc in your spoiler tag

Spoiler

Shortly after the underground waterway idol.