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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice | OT | Borne of Souls

Fbh

Member
LoL, Cleaning files from my phone I came across this old Dark Souls meme which fits even better with Sekiro.

754.gif
 

cr0w

Old Member
Currently sitting at the Idol before the Genichiro boss fight, unwilling to proceed at the moment.

49335d55-9918-4aae-8cfa-55b1a860d43e_text_hi.gif
 
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Drake

Member
Currently sitting at the Idol before the Genichiro boss fight, unwilling to proceed at the moment.

49335d55-9918-4aae-8cfa-55b1a860d43e_text_hi.gif

Be aggressive and parry his counter attacks. I was too passive when I first started practicing that fight and it hurt me. The key to that fight is to be super aggressive. Once you get his patterns down it's not too bad, but still kinda bad.
 
It is a bit disappointing how often some of the bosses are recycled in this game. Otherwise I love it. The difficulty is pretty much perfect for me (I find it a bit more forgiving than the Souls games) and I adore the setting.
 

peronmls

Member
I feel like I’m just trading blocks with some of the bosses. The guy on the roof loses little to no posture. You’d think you could counter (attack) with the Mikiri counter as your opponent is open for a stab to the face. but no you have to play by the games counter gimmick to build up their posture for damage. It’s literally useless for anything else but building up posture. It’s not fun. I think I’ve done about 10 hits of damage to each boss before I was able to install kill them with their posture break. So far boss hav not felt satisfying to hit them but enemies do. Bosses feel like they have too much of this counter gimmick. It’s fun with enemies but on bosses. Idk. I love the countering in Onimusha and MGR but this game is just purely that. I Feel like it should have been a side mechanic.
 

Grinchy

Banned
I was holding off on the Genichiro fight as well. I kept doing everything else I could. It actually isn't a bad fight at all. I only had to try like 4 times. I'm sure it helped that I had done so much "grinding" on the side to have tons of healing gourds and leveled up physical attacks and stuff.
 

Shifty

Member
Well, given that every game play's a bit differently, I think you just want to argue. We're going to be splitting hairs forvever if we go down that route.
Not at all, I'm more than happy to live and let live when it comes to opinions. It's flawed logic like "crank the difficulty on anything and you get sekiro" that I take issue with, given that - as you say - all games are different.

I do appreciate your elaboration though.

I'll try and explain though. The main feeling I get from Sekiro is swinging down to ambush someone (that's Batman). You can also button mash most of the enemies most of the time.
The hitboxes aren't great, they're okay but a bit wird. You can get hit through walls. It's not very precise. It relies excessively on 'ding' quicktime events.
The earlier trash mobs can definitely be mashed, but come the latter half of the game that tactic'll get you killed.

The hitboxes are a valid criticism. It seems to be a thing with From games- some of it is pure hitbox porn, some of it is oddly jank. I found it fine for the most part, though certain boss grabs or large super moves seemed questionable.

Myself I didn't find the execution prompts excessive. They remind me of Ninja Gaiden 2 where you're incentivized to lop off a limb - akin to breaking posture with RNG instead of a bar - to open an enemy up for an instant kill. It's over the top, but I'm into that.

These are all things that you find in other games -- And when you turn the difficulty up in those games, the games gets harder but the simplicity of the core game remains. That's how Sekiro plays.

The average difficulty setting plays like the above, but when you increase the diffculty, the game opens up and requires you to absolutely master the controls. But in Sekiro the only difficulty setting in hard -- And the gameplay is simple but tough, like those titles.
I think this might be the disconnect- when you say 'other games' you're referring to similar games like action titles with fighting game style hitbox/hurtbox/spacing/startup/cooldown/etc/etc mechanics, or third-person action games with some level of aggressive stealth mechanics. It makes it sound like you mean 'any game' without qualifying it like that.

And well, that's From for you. I remember an interview with Miyazaki revealing that they do it to keep all players on the same level of discussion, rather than segmenting them out into different buckets due to playing on multiple difficulties. I suppose this time around the 'hard balance' makes that approach harsher than Souls.

I don't like this, as there are lots of games out there with simple but tough gameplay. You just need to play on a harder setting to get that feeling.
I don't know that I'd call it simple. "Narrow but deep" perhaps, since you're limited to the katana, 3 tools and 3 equippable arts. The problem space of "what move is the enemy doing and what will each of my character's functions do at this moment" is pretty expansive, akin to something like Tekken.

This sort of simplicity is really not what From excel at, and it's just not what I'm after, but I guess it's what Activision wanted.
From had full creative control over Sekiro. I feel like they genuinely wanted to break away from the Dark Souls mould and create a purely skill-based game.

The monkey is boring. He's not even hard. He has way too many HP and getting to phase 2 over and over to learn is boring as fuck.

Edit: to expand on this, I beat it after a few hours of tries. In the end, I was perfecting phase 1 easily. And it took like 30 minutes of fight (coward fighting mastered) to kill it. Boring as fuck. He really has way, WAY too many HP, especially in that annoying phase 2. Phase 1 is super fun once you learn it, toh. But knowing that you have to get though it to learn phase 2 is just demoralizing. Reading the thread I've spoiled myself how many phases the last boss has. Yeah, I don't see myself having the patience to kill it.
Do you not perhaps get the feeling that the game is trying to tell you something about your playstyle by wasting your time in this manner? :goog_unsure:
 

wzy

Member
no they aren't.

not every game is for every person. i don't get this need to make every game accessible to every player.

Yoshi's Crafted World is dead easy. that's ok! not a flaw of the game, a feature. this is super hard. that's ok! not a flaw. i don't want these games to be altered so that everyYoshi's Crafted World player can play through Sekiro. they are two different games. there doesn't need to be a Sekiro-hard option in Yoshi's Crafted World. again, two different games.

every art medium ever offers a full range of experiences. you have simple short films and you have long ass magnum opuses with intermissions. you have simple folk music and you have full symphony orchestras or prog rock. you have simple line drawings that can be done in an instant and on the other end you have oil paintings that take years to make. play dough vs marble sculptures, community theater vs broadway, etc. etc.

this idea that every game needs to appeal to every player is ridiculous. again, even in gaming world there are many experiences. in playing cards you have War and Go Fish and then you have more complicated things like Bridge or Rummy. in baseball you have little leagues for kids, soft ball, farm leagues, on up to the Majors. nobody complains that major league baseball is inaccessible to little leaguers. basketball can be played 2-on-2, or a simple game of HORSE, or you can play major league full court. there is room for all types of play.

honestly im tired of people complaining about difficulty. especially when they turn around and claim "the rest of the game is easy". at that point you don't even have a coherent argument.

This was actually my weekend and it was amazing. Every time I got frustrated I would just take a break and jump into Yoshi's with my wife, and each game was like the perfect antidote to the other.
 
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wzy

Member
Do you not perhaps get the feeling that the game is trying to tell you something about your playstyle by wasting your time in this manner? :goog_unsure:

Every once in a while on a Souls forum you encounter someone who just killed Yhorm by hacking at his feet for like 45 minutes.
 

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Just got back to

Ashina Castle and shit has hit the fan. Am I close to the end? Feels like it
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
almost beat Genichiro but i am taking time off to go explore instead. he is a very fun boss fight, like a dozen Artorias fights in one. Mikiri counter is so important to this game, and once i finally started getting it down, Geni was losing fast on the posture front. still, sometimes you gotta take a break.

went off an explored the Abandoned Dungeon, which was a really well done pirate cave, sort of like parts of one of the better levels from DS2 but now you can swim and hunt fish. now i'm at Mt. Kongo, and marveling at how good these areas look. the trees are casting nice shadows and there is a nice atmosphere to it all that i found missing from bits of DSIII.

i love the gameplay so much. Spider Souls is the most fun unique cool gimmick they could have thrown in here. you can enter an area, see an archer shooting at you from above, and instantly jump up several rooftops to fight them one on one high above the rest of the enemies, then leap down, fight a bunch of bad guys, and when you need to heal, jump to another roof. it's so seamless.

i love how tough the mini boss and boss fights are. when you take a break to explore, you are a Super Shinobi, you are quickly running through enemies, you feel like a total badass, because you have fought these insanely tough enemies. mini boss and boss fights are designed like puzzles, and once you unlock them, which yes can take hours (but this is hours playing a game and enjoying it & engaging in epic battles so wtf?) you find yourself fighting nearly flawlessly, using only 1 or 2 healing flasks. it is tough but fair. because of that, victory feels well earned. From more than delivers on satisfaction.
 
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Pimpbaa

Member
This game is amazing but I wish I had better reflexes so I could enjoy the game more. I always have to cheese the bosses.
 

Fbh

Member
Final Boss Down!!!



I did terrible against Genichiro so I was like "well this run is clearly going to be crap but I'll keep going to keep practicing against his next forms". Then did better but still not great against his second form, then realized his third form is easier if you are more aggressive and beat that stage for the first time. And thankfully the final one didn't turn out to be too different, countering the lighting attack (which I totally failed to see coming the first time) in particular gives you some nice damage...though going into it for the first time and with 3 heals I didn't think I'd beat it on my first try


Overall an amazing game. Haven't been this hooked on a new game.... well probably since Bloodborne. It retains a lot of what I liked about FROM games like the fantastic art direction, level design and tight combat but makes it all feel fresh again (at least IMO) with stealth, MUCH higher mobility (which also gives a lot of verticality and openness to the levels) and a great combat system that I wouldn't put above the souls games but definitely presents a fun alternative.
Will definitely be going through NG+, I already started and as usual it's nice breezing through early areas that I was struggled with. Beating the crap out of Genichiro in the beginning is also fun and I liked how they had a unique animation for it.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit


You can't hide behind the concept of "...but what about people with disabilities? We need an easy mode!" anymore folks.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I'm at the
Guardian Ape
(the stinky fella). I'm curious, without HUGE spoilers. How close am I? I've got everything else done except him.

i fell in the water after the snake reappeared. I wish I could just slash him right there. I tried for like 4 minutes, but the cheesiness didn't exist

I love the game. I didn't get the axe. All this time I never noticed it. I saw it being used and was like wtf I don't have that and im at that part.
 
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#Phonepunk#

Banned
i finally beat Genichiro. that was such a fun fight. as usual once i got down the Mikiri counter i aced the battle.

you can hit-hit-block-block or just hit-block if you want, and make sure to stay up close as much as possible. Mikiri counter will build his posture and if used correctly will win you the match quickly. the third phase was easiest for me, one Mikiri after another. the lightning is a gift. a very cool fight!

on to Senpou...
 
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Maguro

Member
The game seems to get a lot less hype and promotion in media compared to bloodborne and DS3.
Bought it yesterday, can't wait to play
 

tassletine

Member
I don't know that I'd call it simple. "Narrow but deep" perhaps, since you're limited to the katana, 3 tools and 3 equippable arts. The problem space of "what move is the enemy doing and what will each of my character's functions do at this moment" is pretty expansive, akin to something like Tekken.

From had full creative control over Sekiro. I feel like they genuinely wanted to break away from the Dark Souls mould and create a purely skill-based game.

Narrow but deep, is fine, but it requires an engine and hitboxes that allow you to dig deep. Nintendo games are narrow but deep, but they have the sense to know that twitch gaming requires 60fps so they don't go building action games around 10 year old game engines.

Having said that. I've now played Sekiro on PC and it's good.
This isn't as bad as Bayonetta on ps3 but From have done themseleves a disservice here. They've tailored the game for 60fps and left the base ps4 out to dry.

Now, I'm not saying that you can't beat the game on a base ps4, just that the tech adds a significant layer of difficulty that I'm not able to overcome -- and I consider myself a decent player.
I grew up on nes/snes games. I can play Robotron indefinitely and have platinumed most Treasure and Platinum games. I really like tough gameplay. But this beat me.

Not anymore though. Pc version all the way!!!
 

tassletine

Member
From had full creative control over Sekiro. I feel like they genuinely wanted to break away from the Dark Souls mould and create a purely skill-based game.

I just read that article. Although it does say that From had complete control it also said that it accepted input readily.

What is interesting though is this quote "Activision, however, has also supposedly made sure not to go too extreme with concerns regarding accessibility".

Which means that Activision actively wanted it to be hard and possibly ignored criticisms about difficulty?
That a hard balancing act, pitting an agenda (it has to be hard) against playtests.
 

tassletine

Member
aa6.png


The game isn't unbalanced. Most boss fights don't last 5-7 minutes, as I just said. I can name the number of bosses that do on a *single hand*. Most last 1-3 minutes, just like any previous soulsbourne release.

As for gameplay, I simply used DMCV as an example of how idiotic it is to broadly describe a game in the manner you did with Sekiro. This was blatantly obvious and if you couldn't understand that, then that is entirely on you.

The game is absolutely designed with fast gameplay in mind, which only further shows how you don't know how to actually play the game and make up silly claims like how they "artificially made the game longer". Not a single boss in NG or NG+ has taken me over 30 tries.

Good for you fanbboy, you win the prize of most skilled Sekiro player on Neogef.

I got the PC version and it solved all my issues. The problem was, as I've discussed in the other threads, the gameplay is not suited for a base ps4.
That you were able to finish the game on a base ps4 makes you doubly skillful and a true samurai master!
 

tassletine

Member
Contrary to what i believed at first, the game does give you plenty of options to get stronger in order to face a tough boss later.

So if you are really stuck on a boss, perhaps its better to explore and level up your skills, collect prayer beads (you can get a few of them outside mini bosses) and upgrade your prothestics and come back to face him later. There are also plenty of videos that helps you understand the boss fights better as well.


Looking around the only real option I had to beat Genichiro was to level up to the point where I could cheese him easily. I usually try and do all DS style games on skill alone, deliberately not upgrading my health bar etc. so I But here I found that if you did some grinding you could get an upgrade that cheesed him.

Rather than do that (as that's not gameplay I enjoy) I bought the PC version. That version plays well and has removed the timing issues I was having.
 

tassletine

Member
i.e. mashing buttons until boss falls over? ;-)


We must have been playing very different games, since I always played Dex builds for my first go in any Souls game and had not much more problems with Aldrich than with any of the other bosses. I can't remember a single boss one-shotting my character in Dark Souls 3?


I'm apparently not a gaming genius as you are, since I don't consider most of the game "too easy", but then I also don't think a few encounters would be "too hard". So far I've found the game very consistent with it's inclination of beating the shit out of me. But with every enemy, mini-boss and boss it's getting better and I find the difficulty quite well managed. Every time I hit a wall there is another area to explore and when I come back the wall from before is surmountable. So far the difficulty curve has been excellent, much better managed than the Souls series for example, where there was always the risk of either being overlevelled or underlevelled for an area. Sekiro relies much more on player skill than character stats and expects you to learn it. You seem to think the game needs to adapt itself to your playstyle not the other way round?


Previous From games always had rather simple combat systems at their core, I don't see how Activision would have anything to do with this?

It sounds like you are behind where I am with Sekiro as I felt that way a while ago. I had explored everything and had been stuck on one boss for over a day.

I completely disagree about From having simple combat systems before, especially in comparison to this.

I've since switched to the PC version and it plays really well, I don;t have any complaints.

Just so you know, I almost never upgrade my health bar in From games. Which is probably why Aldrich gave me trouble.
 

tassletine

Member
There are no five hour boss fights unless you suck. It's your responsibility to get better if you suck, and the game provides all the tools to facilitate getting better and overcoming its challenges.

It's not the game's fault that you're bad. It's your fault. Sekiro's challenges are fair. Get better or give up.

Thanks tough guy. You'd make a great teacher.

I got the PC version. I now don't suck.

Why is that? Do you think?
 

tassletine

Member
I feel like I’m just trading blocks with some of the bosses. The guy on the roof loses little to no posture. You’d think you could counter (attack) with the Mikiri counter as your opponent is open for a stab to the face. but no you have to play by the games counter gimmick to build up their posture for damage. It’s literally useless for anything else but building up posture. It’s not fun. I think I’ve done about 10 hits of damage to each boss before I was able to install kill them with their posture break. So far boss hav not felt satisfying to hit them but enemies do. Bosses feel like they have too much of this counter gimmick. It’s fun with enemies but on bosses. Idk. I love the countering in Onimusha and MGR but this game is just purely that. I Feel like it should have been a side mechanic.

Agreed. From decided to mash together what everyone wasn't clammering for -- Overlong boss fights with lots of quicktime events WITHOUT SHOWING YOU WHICH BUTTON TO PRESS!

Someone needs to tell them they still feel like cheap quicktime events -- and you can't hide that by removing a button prompt.
 

cireza

Member
I am actually playing the game too.

Yesterday I defeated the
Demon of Hatred

I am pretty close to the end of the game I guess.

Overall the experience was fine, but the main problems with this game are :
- the camera that goes nuts near walls
- sometimes you lose the lock-on
- you get stuck a lot in the scenery
- not being 60fps (on Xbox One X) while being a very demanding game based on your reflexes

All these elements make the game a lot harder. For the boss I just defeated, probably half of my tries ended being failures because of the 3 points I listed above. Quite frustrating.

Otherwise game is good. Environments, enemies and bosses felt a bit redundant. Reused too many times. And music is totally forgettable (at least to me), which is a pretty big let down after Dark Souls III (which I disliked quite a lot, excepted for the boss fights).
 
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Virex

Banned
Don't need to, 60fps version is lots easier.
Fair enough. But a person does not need 60FPS to see that you're either a troll or a retard. Or perhaps both. Because you sure seem salty that you suck at Sekiro. I also read somewhere in Revelations in the Bible...I just can't remember the which verse but it goes something like : "GIT GUD"
 
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Makariel

Member
Yesterday I killed that strange clawed creature in that side temple of Mt. Kongo. Was pretty straightforward, just deflecting until he is tired and then stab him to death. Had some more attempts at Genichiro and I think I slowly get the rhytm, could pretty much predict all his thrust attacks and counter them. Still made the mistake of getting too far away, which he took as opportunity to spam arrows in my face until I fall over. Too tired last night to try again, will see if I can finally catch him tonight.
 
On the last part of my third playthrough and I feel like I can finally give my 'final' thoughts on the game. Obviously, it's excellent, and leaves me very excited for the future of the franchise (as long as Activision keeps it in From's hands, of course). The level design is superb and combat is intensely engaging, especially if you're going for deflects (as you should! destroying posture > depleting HP). Shout out to the composer as well for making a great soundtrack.
That said, I'd REALLY love more weapon variety in a sequel. By the third playthrough I've found myself increasingly annoyed at the fact that my sword is essentially a needle compared to other enemies' weapons (which, to be fair, may be a symptom of enemy HP and damage increasing with every NG+, in addition to other debuffs available to make the game harder). In the other Souls games I tend to gravitate towards large weapons because they stagger better and don't feel like I'm hacking away at a boulder with a butter knife. I'd love to have been able to wield a naginata like so many other enemies in this game.
Obviously, considering I'm on NG3, I've adjusted my playstyle and played the game as intended and had an awesome time doing it. But by the second playthrough I was pining for more variety in combat, especially considering it's very easy to skip past 70% of the game once you know where to go so combat is really all that's left.

All in all: awesome game, can't wait for Sekiro 2: Shadows Die Thrice
 

nkarafo

Member
Genichiro was too fun. Loved the first phases with all the sword crossing.

This game needs a Boss replay mode or something.

Anyway, just reached Fountainhead and was greeted with a boss fight, right after i defeated the Owl. That's literally 2 bosses in a row. I think that's enough Sekiro for one day.
 
Is the new game plus how difficult? I think I fucked up...

So I didn't know what I was doing and I chose to obey daddy (hey, it was the iron code after all!). Soo I just realized that I'm gonna miss a great chunk of the game now. I tried to reload my save but no dice, the decision is now set in stone. So if I want to see the whole game, should I play it on new game plus or start over from scratch?
 

Ivellios

Member
Looking around the only real option I had to beat Genichiro was to level up to the point where I could cheese him easily. I usually try and do all DS style games on skill alone, deliberately not upgrading my health bar etc. so I But here I found that if you did some grinding you could get an upgrade that cheesed him.

Rather than do that (as that's not gameplay I enjoy) I bought the PC version. That version plays well and has removed the timing issues I was having.

Im playing on base PS4 and i dont have any issues with the FPS or timing.r

I did not know Genichiro could be cheesed, i think the only bosses i really cheesed hard was the Seven Spears and snake eyes on the Poison pool.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Yesterday I killed that strange clawed creature in that side temple of Mt. Kongo. Was pretty straightforward, just deflecting until he is tired and then stab him to death. Had some more attempts at Genichiro and I think I slowly get the rhytm, could pretty much predict all his thrust attacks and counter them. Still made the mistake of getting too far away, which he took as opportunity to spam arrows in my face until I fall over. Too tired last night to try again, will see if I can finally catch him tonight.
If you get him down to half his health,his posture drops much faster. I went in with Ichimonji and firecracker. I haven't tried the loaded axe though (which I believe is also weak against).
 

Makariel

Member
If you get him down to half his health,his posture drops much faster. I went in with Ichimonji and firecracker. I haven't tried the loaded axe though (which I believe is also weak against).
I tried whirlwind for chip damage, loaded axe for posture and shuriken to interrupt. Found it difficult to get the timing such that I would be able to use the axe without risking a sword to the face while it winds up.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I tried whirlwind for chip damage, loaded axe for posture and shuriken to interrupt. Found it difficult to get the timing such that I would be able to use the axe without risking a sword to the face while it winds up.

I noticed if you stay on top of him and press R1 or RB once and then gently press it again; you'll interrupt his move set. I threw firecracker down and then went into the skill art.

This is my fight with him. I messed up the counter, but my strategy was the same:


Edit: Actually, dodging and attacking (where he swipes his sword horizontally) works real well as a single strike.
 
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V4skunk

Banned
I noticed if you stay on top of him and press R1 or RB once and then gently press it again; you'll interrupt his move set. I threw firecracker down and then went into the skill art.

This is my fight with him. I messed up the counter, but my strategy was the same:


Edit: Actually, dodging and attacking (where he swipes his sword horizontally) works real well as a single strike.

I just got to his 3rd form last night on my 4th try. Some of the mini bosses hit much harder and countering his perilous attacks destroys him.
Time to git gud.
 
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1. Stab the two guys in the side building
2. Sneak behind the crew and stab one of the shield guys
3. Take out all the goons as quick and aggressive as possible.
4. Run away from fatty until he looses aggro.
5. Backstab him
6. Activate your buddy to help you out
7. Fuck fatty up while he bashes your buddy. When he focuses on you let your buddy do the work. Rinse and repeat.
8. Ez win

So on #5 there... how exactly do you backstab him properly? I have snuck up behind him multiple times, but never get the red "kill blow" marker. Do I need to jump up or something to get it?

On second thought, I don't want an answer. I want help. Like a support group, some kind of Celebrity Rehab intervention or something. I have never hated a game so much, but every once in a while, my willpower breaks, and I find myself back in the crack house, hating myself, knowing I'm ruining my life chasing a high I'll never feel again... somebody help me!
 

Skyr

Member
So on #5 there... how exactly do you backstab him properly? I have snuck up behind him multiple times, but never get the red "kill blow" marker. Do I need to jump up or something to get it?

On second thought, I don't want an answer. I want help. Like a support group, some kind of Celebrity Rehab intervention or something. I have never hated a game so much, but every once in a while, my willpower breaks, and I find myself back in the crack house, hating myself, knowing I'm ruining my life chasing a high I'll never feel again... somebody help me!

That's weird. When he looses aggro and starts to go back to his initial position you should get the red dot, as soon as you sneak up behind him.
 

[Asmodean]

Member
FYI - for anyone using HDR with this: other than the known alt+tab issue with HDR, there is also an issue with colorspace metadata not being detected. This is why people are reporting washy colors, etc.

Will depend on TV, but for Samsung at least, this can be solved by enabling HDR for the game (use special k, or alt_tab) after HDR is 'on' switch current input to PC mode and back to game or whatever you had it on.

When it actually works, HDR looks pretty sweet in this,
 
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Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Beat True Corrupted Monk last night utilizing the two stealth kill method. A thing of beauty.
I'm not there yet, but this "two stealth kill method" sounds intriguing. Can you spoiler tag how to do it? for reference purposes only please? :messenger_neutral::messenger_beaming:

I just got to his 3rd form last night on my 4th try. Some of the mini bosses hit much harder and countering his perlisous attacks destroys him.
Time to git gud.
I was way too focused on eating Eel than parrying anything in that final part.
 
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