ph33rknot
Banned
no psn steam live gog whatever Nintendo has
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why the PlayStation 5 still using Bluray will make most of its revealed specs useless and void, and why they should ditch it for alternatives.
- Thread starter Freedom Gate Co.
- Start date
CJY
Banned
Shit we have all forgotten him ( i can't remember his name it's in the top of my tongue) that wonderful tech guy, with the long threads full of software and hardware jargon, and mind blowing cientifical explanations, and links links everywhere,... i think i remember his last crusade being _ ps4 br player his 4k ready secret sauce, only needed hdmi port software update! somethingthey were great reading!
Cerny was lying, didn't you read the all post?!
I'm obsessed with peanuts
(jk after this post I'm obsessed with you!... Should have been the first post!)
My head is spinning and hurting... I love Gaf! ❤
I think you're referring the jeff_rigby?
Grinchy
Banned
You know what's gonna be weird is when PCs are emulating PS4 games but all the loading times are the same as they were on PS4 because of that damn bluray drive. And when Sony claimed that a 15 second load screen in Spiderman was 0.8 seconds on PS5 because of the SSD, it must be because there's a PC port of the game that the PS5 is running. Since the PC port was never on a bluray disc, it can load faster.
SonGoku
Member
To run a backup on the emulator means you decryted it and in the process removed the bluray codec drm that would otherwise cap the ssd speed.
Am I right
Freedom Gate Co.
Grinchy
Banned
To run a backup on the emulator means you decryted it and in the process removed the bluray codec drm that would otherwise cap the ssd speed.
Am I right
I was wondering what the counterpoint would be and that sounds like exactly what it would beAnd so Sony just removed their bluray DRM for the Spiderman loading demonstration.
Negotiator
Member
Joking aside, I wonder what specs it would take to emulate a PS4 in real time... that unified memory and the CPU/GPU bus must be a bitch to emulate properly.
Hayriko
Member
ANIMAL1975
Member
You guys are the best! Yes it was Jeff!!! I wasn't a member too back then, what happened to him? I miss his threads lol
CJY
Banned
He’s over on the other site now. I can’t remember what name he goes by over there though, not Jeff_Rigby anyway.
ANIMAL1975
Member
CJY
Banned
Well I'll be damn! The signs were all there,... and i never saw he was a masochist
Lol
Afro Republican
Banned
I just got word that the reason he's taking so long is he has got Timothy Bunton himself scheduled to make an account on Neogaf and break it down live on screen!
Or he's panicking. Probably that. lol
I think he's going to find some random article about speed of Blu Ray for burning or something and say the article was by some guy named Timothy using Photoshop.
Or he'll just find some other guy and said Timothy was too busy to come.
Or he'll reveal that.............................................HE IS TIMOTHY BUNTON!!!! MAH GAwD!!?!?!!?
Or he's panicking. Probably that. lol
I think he's going to find some random article about speed of Blu Ray for burning or something and say the article was by some guy named Timothy using Photoshop.
Or he'll just find some other guy and said Timothy was too busy to come.
Or he'll reveal that.............................................HE IS TIMOTHY BUNTON!!!! MAH GAwD!!?!?!!?
nowhat
Member
Nah, he just has all his evidence stored on a Blu-Ray disc - it takes a while to copy all of it from there.
Afro Republican
Banned
Take that back you scandal ridden fiend! Timothy would NEVER use Blu Ray!!!
He has the data stored on Firewire of course. Durrr....
theclaw135
Banned
Isn't the x86 architecture difficult enough to straight up emulate?
It doesn't seem to be necessary very often, however, virtualization or less invasive methods offer better performance.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
However Jeff seemed to know what he was talking about tech wise, his predictions were just out there with practicality for what manufacturers (Sony/MS) would actually do this gen.
Tarin02543
Member
I've been thinking, what is the successor to Bluray?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Lock thread, Ban OP.
Negotiator
Member
I wasn't talking about the architecture, but the unified memory and the internal APU buses (onion/garlic).
PCs are very different in terms of buses (PCIe) with a discrete CPU/GPU setup and discrete memory pools.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Download codes printed on little cards.
Thing on a Spring
Member
HD-DVD, apparently.
Kazekage1981
Member
the next Blu-ray format currently available is bd-xl which can go up to 128GB. I wonder if they will make 1 terabyte blu-ray discs.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
Im still here. I'll have an article breaking things down for you alo by tomorrow or Monday. A lot of people here are getting the disc itself mixed up with the software on the disc and the article will break it down better than my attempts. Maybe even two articles.
Also having that push notification message on gaf mobile being unremovable unless I refresh the page might be a design bug flaw to fix. Wasn't there before.
Also having that push notification message on gaf mobile being unremovable unless I refresh the page might be a design bug flaw to fix. Wasn't there before.
They have 3TB cartridges with a bunch of double sided "Blu-rays" in them
Sony 3.3TB Optical Disc Archive Cartridge - Write-once - ODC3300R
Reliable and robust large-capacity media for Optical Disc Archive, Generation 2.
tapeonline.com
Trogdor1123
Member
Which way? Did you cut it two different directions? My dad used to make me do it and o hated it. Looked great though!
baphomet
Member
No amount of articles you write/attempt to find is going to change the fact that you have a complete misunderstanding at even the most basic level of how any of this works.
comshoplesce
Member
OT: What do you want? Digital only games? Are you nuts?
Price and no resell value.
Price and no resell value.
Iorv3th
Member
What's preventing you from posting the articles now?
Still need time to write them Mr bunton?
Ancient Dragon
Member
Can physical discs even get higher capacity than a DL BD?
In any case, I don't think any PS4 or Xbone loading times are big deal when playing a game off the disc.
Pretty sure with next gen we'll be given the option to install games again anyway.
In any case, I don't think any PS4 or Xbone loading times are big deal when playing a game off the disc.
Pretty sure with next gen we'll be given the option to install games again anyway.
Afro Republican
Banned
Looks like Op is going to wri- post an article to explain his stance in this thread
Which happens to be totally accurate in regards to its inaccuracy
Which happens to be totally accurate in regards to its inaccuracy
nowhat
Member
I think you'd be better off waiting with baked breath. If you're high enough, the evidence might make some sense.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Insane Metal
Member
Oh, this thread is about to get amazing.
Edit: even more I mean.
Edit: even more I mean.
Last edited:
Grinchy
Banned
OP is right. I think that with DVD being open source, and not "proprietary" like bluray, PS5 should just come with a DVD drive. That way, we could get multi-disc DVD installations , that once installed, the game would not be slowed down by "bluray data and codecs" anymore. And the digital offerings wouldn't still contain that dastardly bluray data and could take advantage of the SSD too.
BlackTron
Member
polybius80
Member
*
Last edited:
Shifty
Member
Darkangel
Member
I've spent some time analyzing OP's posts and I've come up with two plausible theories that could potentially explain what the fuck he's talking about.
THEORY 1: The "Blu-ray Filesystem Theory"
Blu-ray discs are formatted using some variant of UDF. The UDF format is fairly old and was not designed to utilize the speed advantages of flash memory (or NVME SSD storage like the PS5 will probably have). This guy seems to think that when a game is installed to the PS4 it is done by creating a new UDF partition on the PS4 HDD then cloning the contents of the Blu-ray disc. Thus in his head the game is still stored in a "disc-based" format that completely bottlenecks SSD storage. Obviously this doesn't fucking happen and even if it did the files would still have way faster I/O performance than if they were on a HDD.
THEORY 2: The "DRM Bottleneck Theory"
The PS4 will periodically check to make sure the game disc is in the drive. This is a form of DRM. He seems to think that the PS4 doing this every once in a while completely clogs up the bandwidth and causes the system's performance to nosedive. Obviously this doesn't fucking happen either.
I find it interesting that the two theories are seemingly unrelated, almost as if he wanted a backup theory in case his first argument got blown the fuck out.
THEORY 1: The "Blu-ray Filesystem Theory"
Blu-ray discs are formatted using some variant of UDF. The UDF format is fairly old and was not designed to utilize the speed advantages of flash memory (or NVME SSD storage like the PS5 will probably have). This guy seems to think that when a game is installed to the PS4 it is done by creating a new UDF partition on the PS4 HDD then cloning the contents of the Blu-ray disc. Thus in his head the game is still stored in a "disc-based" format that completely bottlenecks SSD storage. Obviously this doesn't fucking happen and even if it did the files would still have way faster I/O performance than if they were on a HDD.
THEORY 2: The "DRM Bottleneck Theory"
The PS4 will periodically check to make sure the game disc is in the drive. This is a form of DRM. He seems to think that the PS4 doing this every once in a while completely clogs up the bandwidth and causes the system's performance to nosedive. Obviously this doesn't fucking happen either.
I find it interesting that the two theories are seemingly unrelated, almost as if he wanted a backup theory in case his first argument got blown the fuck out.
polybius80
Member
whatever article you get that says that is false
the software on a disc is a bunch of files you get the executable file (.exe .elf .bin whatever) you may execute it the dma will copy things to memory to hdd, sdd, etc as fast as it can in order to install the game there is no special instructions to make it slower than the medium from where you are reading the file allows in fact the executable will tell the cpu/dma to get the files in optical media that it needs there are cases of many copies of the same file so the head of the drive doesnt have to move far to get the file, when that happens an iso file may be bigger than neccesary but not slower to read from an hdd and when the games are ported if they read an iso file those duplicated files inside are usually removed to save space
most of the files you are going to use are assets files for example image files their format can be simple or complex depending the format usually is just a header section with information of the data block structure in the same file(if its compressed and how, number of bits per color, resolution...) the ps4 will read them extract the image data based on the header change the structure for how the game engine and the graphic api read them(maybe you have to flip the image for example) and put the data into a buffer in video memory there are a lot of different formats, sony have their own since the psone era and for each system but also unreal engine and unity have their own formats that put several files into a compresed/encrypted file(are you suggesting they tell their engines to run them slower?) to read them slowly it has to be explicitly coded in the executable that request them something like a sleep function after reading each file wich its not the case, for other files they are similar sound files, vertex data files.... all of them are a bunch of data in a certain format there is no reason to read them slower on a faster medium just because they were into a slower medium before
the phyrengine is from sony and its compatible with psp, psvita, ps3 and ps4 as well as linux, mac , windows, ios, android and even xbox 360 and xbox one if you dont believe me you can check for a documentation of special instruction to read them slower because they were from a blu ray disc you can do the same with unreal engine 4 and unity documentation
Why the next xbox using WiFi will render any specs it has useless.
1. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the next xbox and say loads will take one second if you are still using wifi. When you install from the internet using wifi you're also running the packet data and UDP/TCP protocols of the internet which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that network is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM too. Even if you were to add a bit of network traffic, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside games read from a Blu-ray drive.
2. With #1 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced T1 Military network or just scrap WiFi altogether and go all physical for the next xbox? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.
3. Most Games are rendered with Digital sponsored tools that "downgrade" when formatting them for wifi networks. It's the same with Movies, the tools are too advanced to update the network tools to keep up, so they have to downgrade certain graphical features and image quality to get things on Wifi. The only reason why wifi contains an advantage is because of streaming, which is close to passing 4K streaming. But when looking at blu-ray disc uncompressed to wifi uncompressed, there's no competition. This means that non-streaming disc installs on the next Xbox will LOOK BETTER than those installed over WiFi. Making keeping WiFi pointless.
1. You can't tout that you are going to have a "fast SSD Drive" in the next xbox and say loads will take one second if you are still using wifi. When you install from the internet using wifi you're also running the packet data and UDP/TCP protocols of the internet which an SSD drive won't do much to increase the speed of because that network is naturally slow, especially since it checks DRM too. Even if you were to add a bit of network traffic, it would only marginally increase the speed. It's like you having a 20watt phone wanting a 30wat charge from the charger, you can't charge at 30 wats if the phone is capped at 20, the SSD drive is basically useless outside games read from a Blu-ray drive.
2. With #1 being true it begs the question for why they don't either go with the new Advanced T1 Military network or just scrap WiFi altogether and go all physical for the next xbox? It doesn't make sense to hype an SSD drive if the SSD drive doesn't do anything. Actually having games load in a second would be a great sales pitch and would be considerably more profitable. It would also result in your console being cheaper to produce.
3. Most Games are rendered with Digital sponsored tools that "downgrade" when formatting them for wifi networks. It's the same with Movies, the tools are too advanced to update the network tools to keep up, so they have to downgrade certain graphical features and image quality to get things on Wifi. The only reason why wifi contains an advantage is because of streaming, which is close to passing 4K streaming. But when looking at blu-ray disc uncompressed to wifi uncompressed, there's no competition. This means that non-streaming disc installs on the next Xbox will LOOK BETTER than those installed over WiFi. Making keeping WiFi pointless.
Similar threads
- Poll