S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
There are zero examples of it being done properly actually. Because time travel is bullshit! I say this as a person that likes Steins;Gate and JoJo.
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Avengers Endgame (SPOILER THREAD)
- Thread starter captainraincoat
- Start date
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Frank Spencer
Banned
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Barnabot
Member
She was forced to be in this movie unlike the Black Widow who was always there in the beginning of Avengers movie series. Think about those overall 15 minutes wasted on no character development which could be used into something else like developing further the other heroes even then helping the movie's overall story.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I definitely would have liked some of those minutes to go toward more Peter Quill and Gamora.
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kiiltz
Member
Since some people are a little confused, I'll do a little write-up on the time travel bit, specifically what Banner and Stark were saying irt BTTF, Terminator, etc getting time travel wrong.
Slight spoilers.
Slight spoilers.
Basically, the problem with BTTF, Terminator, etc is that they use time travel as a way to change the present/future. Except there's a glaring and fundamental flaw with that plot point because it ignores one's own relationship with time. For example, the Grandfather paradox: if you went back in time and killed your own grandfather you would essentially prevent your own birth thus you'd prevent yourself from going back in time to kill your grandfather thus your grandfather would still alive be therefore making your birth possible therefore making it possible for you to go back in time to kill your grandfather.
BTTF sort of flirts with this idea with the subplot of Marty having to make sure his parents get together to ensure his birth. More to Banner and Stark's point, BTTF completely ignores Marty's relationship with time (the logic is that the DeLorean enables him to do so). He does go back 30 years into the past, but time is still moving forward for him. Now this is where it gets tricky and it's what Banner was trying to explain to Scott during the movie. The basic hypothesis is that to time travel to the past you must still move forward which is a contradiction and raises all sorts of problems and questions. Endgame itself tries to address this by giving us the scene of baby Antman and old man Antman, essentially a form of time travel. We actually see the sort of problems and questions the hypothesis causes at the end of the first BTTF when Marty goes back to the present only to find it changed. Why does the Marty at the end of the film turn out like the exact same person as the main Marty despite the new 1985? Why does Marty retain his memories of the old 1985? Does this mean there are two 1985's or is there only one that was changed?
(Sidebar: If you've seen the film Kimi no Na wa/Your Name you might already have an idea of what I'm talking about. Frankly, it's the only film I've seen that's done "changing the past" logically.)
So what does this all mean? It means that going back in time to prevent Thanos from using the Infinity Stones doesn't change the fact that it already happened. This is what they mean by "time travel to the future is possible; time travel to the past is not" and this is why Banner and Stark weren't so gung ho about changing Thanos's actions so much as undoing it. That's what separates Endgame from BTTF and Terminator. Endgame wasn't about trying to change the past like they were, and to a certain extent you can argue that's why it's okay for Cap to stay in the past with Margaret.
BTTF sort of flirts with this idea with the subplot of Marty having to make sure his parents get together to ensure his birth. More to Banner and Stark's point, BTTF completely ignores Marty's relationship with time (the logic is that the DeLorean enables him to do so). He does go back 30 years into the past, but time is still moving forward for him. Now this is where it gets tricky and it's what Banner was trying to explain to Scott during the movie. The basic hypothesis is that to time travel to the past you must still move forward which is a contradiction and raises all sorts of problems and questions. Endgame itself tries to address this by giving us the scene of baby Antman and old man Antman, essentially a form of time travel. We actually see the sort of problems and questions the hypothesis causes at the end of the first BTTF when Marty goes back to the present only to find it changed. Why does the Marty at the end of the film turn out like the exact same person as the main Marty despite the new 1985? Why does Marty retain his memories of the old 1985? Does this mean there are two 1985's or is there only one that was changed?
(Sidebar: If you've seen the film Kimi no Na wa/Your Name you might already have an idea of what I'm talking about. Frankly, it's the only film I've seen that's done "changing the past" logically.)
So what does this all mean? It means that going back in time to prevent Thanos from using the Infinity Stones doesn't change the fact that it already happened. This is what they mean by "time travel to the future is possible; time travel to the past is not" and this is why Banner and Stark weren't so gung ho about changing Thanos's actions so much as undoing it. That's what separates Endgame from BTTF and Terminator. Endgame wasn't about trying to change the past like they were, and to a certain extent you can argue that's why it's okay for Cap to stay in the past with Margaret.
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Frank Spencer
Banned
Once you see the film you will tend to believe it. Especially after the last Spiderman movie. Once you see it.....the agenda is for all to see as opposed to letting it happen naturally. I expect the MCU to be full on Supergirl in a few years.......
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mcz117chief
Member
Yeah, I meant as in it is fun, makes some sense and isn't chock full of plotholes.
AfricanKing
Member
10/10 can't top it for superhero films. I do smell an Oscar in the works
captainraincoat
Banned
So was there any real need..,
The real villain is the script writers
to taking one of the best villains in a movie in some time and killing him off in the first 20 mins leaving us with thanos light in the background of the movie until the very end?
The real villain is the script writers
Ulysses 31
Member
Reading some comments I get reminded at the disappointment Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions gave me as being a "weird"/different than expected from a sequel... 
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I agree no one asked for more Nebula but I actually enjoyed her. By far best movie for that character imo
Frank Spencer
Banned
All 300 of them.
Would have been more fun to take Thanos hostage and bring him back to earth perhaps?
Though as someone said earlier Black Widows and even Iron Man's death could have been avoided if they simply went back to 2014 in the skies of Titan and killed Thanos then....
Faptain Marvelous could have split him and his ship in two.......
Though as someone said earlier Black Widows and even Iron Man's death could have been avoided if they simply went back to 2014 in the skies of Titan and killed Thanos then....
Faptain Marvelous could have split him and his ship in two.......
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
In the comics how does it end? What happens after “the snap” in the comics?
iorek21
Member
Maybe this will be how they'll introduce the F4 and X-men?
kingbean
Member
A good enough outcome. I'd love for there to be a good Fantastic 4 movie.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Hopefully.
Was hoping for a tease at the end of this but maybe the acquisition wasn’t official soon enough? Or maybe they just wanted this to be OG Avengers centric
A black female super-genius (smarter and better at everything than Tony) mary sue with no actual charachter arc (well, her teacher wasn't racist enough to her and she demanded it. So, her teacher just said *You'll never be TONY STARK* to appease her. And thats her hero backstory) She began and took over for him for a while as he was in a coma and an AI I guess.
Also shes called Ironheart.
I'm not kidding.
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
When you’re dealing with this sort of thing you can always make arguments for “why didn’t...”
Like why didn’t captain marvel just destroy the ship right away? Why not time jump to XYZ? Why was aunt May wearing clothes?
There’s always going to be something you can do better. You could have fixed the whole thing in minutes in the first part.
But that’s not what makes a good story, or good action.
And by god did this have some amazing action...
Like why didn’t captain marvel just destroy the ship right away? Why not time jump to XYZ? Why was aunt May wearing clothes?
There’s always going to be something you can do better. You could have fixed the whole thing in minutes in the first part.
But that’s not what makes a good story, or good action.
And by god did this have some amazing action...
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
You’re absolutely right it’s just hard not to ponder some of those “what if’s” right after seeing a movie like this. But you’re right, for sure
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Yeah, they could have done a lot of things differently. That’s the same for any movie. And once you throw in time travel then you instantly stick yourself in a corner because death, and danger, they just go out the window. But they did some interesting stuff. I don’t think they showed enough old footage myself, like they could have used a lot of b roll footage from different angles of the same scene. But I enjoyed what they did with that. They way they managed to get Gamora back was cool, because I honestly thought there was no way she would be there for guardians 3, and the whole learning all about her friends and Quill again is exciting.
But sure, some shit was just odd. Like Captain Marvel saying there are other planets that need help... awesome shit lady, but you know the guy that wiped out half of everything, well he’s here. Now. So this is more important than Galactic Bill and his dildo machine.
But the whole movie was just incredible, so I can look past all that. I had tears in my eyes though pretty much all of it. And when Peter was talking to Tony post final snap...... I was full blown a mess.
Edit: if I had to put a flaw on the movie i would have to agree with my wife. Not finishing the movie with “In loving memory of Stan Mother Fucking Lee” was a crime. We waited the whole credits, and didn’t see it. That just felt.... Wrong.
Also side note but what was the metallic hammering about at the very end of the credits during the marvel logo?
But sure, some shit was just odd. Like Captain Marvel saying there are other planets that need help... awesome shit lady, but you know the guy that wiped out half of everything, well he’s here. Now. So this is more important than Galactic Bill and his dildo machine.
But the whole movie was just incredible, so I can look past all that. I had tears in my eyes though pretty much all of it. And when Peter was talking to Tony post final snap...... I was full blown a mess.
Edit: if I had to put a flaw on the movie i would have to agree with my wife. Not finishing the movie with “In loving memory of Stan Mother Fucking Lee” was a crime. We waited the whole credits, and didn’t see it. That just felt.... Wrong.
Also side note but what was the metallic hammering about at the very end of the credits during the marvel logo?
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
It hit the right feels perfectly in many scenes. Very well done as far as “completing the circle” or whatever.
One of the big What If, or that type of questions I am stuck on is how can the Ancient One see Stephen Strange in the future but not Thanos/The Snap?
But like you said, can’t get too stuck on all those details
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Exactly yeah, that was odd. She couldn’t see that. But then if she could, the question would be why didn’t she surrender the stone right away, and then you have another paradox of events not happening.
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Regarding Cap
When Tony gets off the ship and hugs Pepper you see Cap kind of look at them almost enviously. It kind of makes the ending more satisfying. He’s been alone, the man “out of time” for so long now.
When Tony gets off the ship and hugs Pepper you see Cap kind of look at them almost enviously. It kind of makes the ending more satisfying. He’s been alone, the man “out of time” for so long now.
Frank Spencer
Banned
Best shoe horned character? Best animation?
They were more interested in putting the main casts signatures in silver on screen......
Like giving Hulk his closure against Thanos?
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
I assume not all of them got snapped, it seemed like some didn't from the ending, so like did they repeat class 5 years in a row or what....
The wise lady that preceded strange said they'd be screwed without the stones, but main timeline the stones are destroyed so...
Not sure how I feel about this one. I'll have to sit on it a bit longer. I definitely liked the last one a lot better.
The time travel stuff seemed very messy and the pacing of the movie in the middle dragged for way too long. I liked the action at the end and a lot of the humor was well done throughout the movie.
The time travel stuff seemed very messy and the pacing of the movie in the middle dragged for way too long. I liked the action at the end and a lot of the humor was well done throughout the movie.
kiiltz
Member
This is where the movie really shoots itself in the foot. They go out of their way to specifically address that they're not changing the past, but undoing Thanos' actions. Yet the film just ends on a "All was well" tier note without any real repercussions. They restored the people that were dusted and that's where the line should have been drawn (hence why people like Widow and Loki don't get revived). There should have been some indication that society needed to rebuild. 5 years is a significant amount of time to lose half your population and not only that, the film goes out of its way to show us that the world is supposedly some kind of desolate post-apocalyptic wasteland which btw, is a flaw in itself. Thanos killed half the population, not 90% of it. At half population, New York and Tokyo still have 5 million people yet the film doesn't reflect that. But that's slightly veering off on a different tangent.
Technically, by the film's own logic, Spidey should be 21 by the end of the film and yes, there should have been people in his class that moved on and graduated and yes, the movie doesn't reflect that. Considering the amount of thought they put into the main plot of the film, the resolution seems to lack any of it which is really disappointing.
Ah, you've kind of misunderstood here. First, try not to think of them as timelines, but realities or multiverses if you will (hence why Cap is able to fight with his past self and still lose and why past!Thanos is able to die despite not having done anything and why Gamora is still alive). Even in that conversation between Banner and wise lady, they refer to them as "realities". Essentially, they borrowed these stones that are not their own from these different realities and then returned them. Loki disappearing with the Tesseract is more of a loose end than a plot hole. Same with Thor's Hammer. I actually think Cap takes the Hammer with him at the end when he goes to return the stones but I can't remember for sure.
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tkscz
Member
She meant distinctly the past would be screwed without them as, for example, the time gem (I still call them gems) is what Strange used to defeat Dormamu. Without it, he could not have done that. In fact, a lot of things would not have happened without the gems.
I did enjoy that the movie did take the comic book way of handling time travel. A separate timeline is created, rather than the altogether removal of a timeline.
Overall, it's a satisfying conclusion especially compared to what I had to deal with earlier this week with Mortal Kombat 11.
He does, but considering he didn't have it with him, it's safe to assume he returned it.
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The Hermit
Member
The Hermit
Member
I thought Nick was going to be at her side even, but nope.
I wonder where the MCU will go after that. I am really sad of what they did to Widow and Hulk( I wanted a 1x1 fight with Thanos, but only got comedy relief).
MrHeisenbird
Member
Black Widow and Hulk were pretty disappointing in this. Scarlett and Mark were fine, but the way the characters were handled wasn't good enough.
They might as well cancel the Black Widow movie. It's well overdue anyway.
They might as well cancel the Black Widow movie. It's well overdue anyway.
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cryptoadam
Banned
Should of made it 1 year, but I guess they needed to set up Tony's daughter and if she was a baby it wouldn't work as well?
It wasn't paced as well as Infinity War but the emotional payoff was great.
Also lol at the female haters, just some fanservice for the girls who got into these movies and identified with those characters for whatever reason, get over it. Everyone got served a whole lot of awesome at the end of the day and all our favourite badass white dudes got by far the most attention, best pay offs and callbacks.
I could nitpick the shit out of this movie as well, but I don't care to, it delivered so much more good stuff.
Also lol at the female haters, just some fanservice for the girls who got into these movies and identified with those characters for whatever reason, get over it. Everyone got served a whole lot of awesome at the end of the day and all our favourite badass white dudes got by far the most attention, best pay offs and callbacks.
I could nitpick the shit out of this movie as well, but I don't care to, it delivered so much more good stuff.
kiiltz
Member
It has nothing to do with hating females. It's the forced nature of the scene along with the not so subtle political backdrop. It really makes no sense in context of the film for those heroes, who have barely interacted with each other if not at all, to spontaneously rally together other than "hey, girl power XD".
Fan service in general is just bad and cheapens the integrity of the characters, and this is coming from a weeb. For reference, it's possible to have these sort of scenes without it being so out of place and transparent, see: Black Widow and Okaye vs Proxima in Infinity War.
AfricanKing
Member
It's like a 5 second scene in a 3 hour movie. Get over it dude
Hinedorf
Banned
No need for derogatory labels for people with different perspectives...
I thought it was fucking epic. Judging from some of the early opinions some of you misogynistic fuckheads need to get a clue and stop thinking you're entitled to everything.
Blew me away on all fronts, could have never anticipated this kind of story. The humor was probably better than any Marvel movie to date, the action is more epic than any Marvel movie to date, and this movie is far more HUMAN than any Marvel movie to date. Hats of to the Russo brothers
Blew me away on all fronts, could have never anticipated this kind of story. The humor was probably better than any Marvel movie to date, the action is more epic than any Marvel movie to date, and this movie is far more HUMAN than any Marvel movie to date. Hats of to the Russo brothers
Cunth
Fingerlickin' Good!
But much isn’t it
Hinedorf
Banned
A bit much is complaining about 20 seconds of screen time taken by the collection of females in a 3+ hour movie.
Fox Mulder
Member
It was great. The ending that needed to happen after a decade of MCU building.
All the crying about Captain Marvel ruining the payoff before the film came out, and she's barely in it being sidelined with other things.
All the crying about Captain Marvel ruining the payoff before the film came out, and she's barely in it being sidelined with other things.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Another question is
Did Gamora died again in the end? Shes not seen in Star Lord ship at the end
Because of the snap? Cos Tony dont know who she is and probably include her into Thanos shipcrew that needs to be eradicated
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Hinedorf
Banned
The impression I got is that she's alive but has no recollection of Quail or the Guardians
You see Quill looking her up at the end so my impression is likely GoTG (Guardians of Thors Galaxy) go searching for her.
kunonabi
Member
Just got back and it's my least favorite Avengers flick. The comic relief goes way too far and I couldn't stand fat Thor. Professor Banner was also kind of a waste. His development was just off screen and he never really gets a big moment to himself. We got Scarlet's best performance of the whole series and she gets almost no time. Even that scene on Vormir felt off. We have this whole big "Whatever it takes" mantra for the film and it just seems odd that we didn't get a cold-blooded murder of Hawkeye. I mean I'm all for Renner getting so much time but I don't know. Captain Marvel was a also a giant mistake. Aside from not fitting in it was silly to have a character that could have just destroyed Thanos' fleet in one shot and their best excuse as to why she doesn't is that she just feels like helping other unknown people in some unknown fashion instead.
The political bent was also distracting and as much as I love Mackie's Falcon it's just so forced to give him the shield with the little bit of screentime and development that he's had. King Valkryie is pretty retarded too but whatever.
Honestly, the entire end of the movie was kind of underwhelming. I was expecting something truly nutty and out there but it's just another big battle with Thanos on Earth. It made sense but it just felt tired and so many characters were missing real payoffs.
Edit: on second thought, the Widow thing makes sense. If the plan works Hawkeye gets his family back while she has way less to gain if she is the one that lives.
The political bent was also distracting and as much as I love Mackie's Falcon it's just so forced to give him the shield with the little bit of screentime and development that he's had. King Valkryie is pretty retarded too but whatever.
Honestly, the entire end of the movie was kind of underwhelming. I was expecting something truly nutty and out there but it's just another big battle with Thanos on Earth. It made sense but it just felt tired and so many characters were missing real payoffs.
Edit: on second thought, the Widow thing makes sense. If the plan works Hawkeye gets his family back while she has way less to gain if she is the one that lives.
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kiiltz
Member
Dumb response and like the other person you're not actually addressing the point.
Super Leia's "Mary Poppins" bit happens for 5 seconds in TLJ but that doesn't stop it from being the most insipid part of the film nor does it make the criticism of it any less valid.
"bUt iT oNlY haPpeNs fOr 5 sEcOndS dOOd, gEt OVeR it"
MetalAlien
Banned
Used the Drive In trick to see it. Very boring for the most part. Even the time travel scenes really weren't that interesting. There were many problems with the film so many that I can't recommend the movie...I did not like it.
Why did CM even have powers after the second snap? She is powered by the space stone, it's destroyed. She should have been turned off like a light bulb. Why was she so powerful to begin with? Scarlett Witch nearly gets her ass handed to her by Thanos (even without the gauntlet), she is also powered by an infinity stone. Yet CM takes a head butt from Thanos and his head bounces off hers. Makes no sense at all.
That females assemble moment has got to be the stupidest most cringe moment in the history of film. This moment is like WWII German propaganda levels of cringe. Ruined an otherwise decent battle.
The whole theme of the movie is out of the old (white dudes) in with the diversity. The MCU and Disney can fuck off with that shit.
The movie was not all bad though, there were many scenes that worked. The final battle was really fun for the most part it was really nice seeing Thanos wreck some shit without needing the stones. He stole every scene he was in. Tony and Steve had some nice moments too. Ant Man was actually MVP this time around... that was really fun to see.
The MCU is done with me, and I am damn sure done with the MCU. Didn't pay for this movie and I doubt I will ever pay to see anther MCU movie again. Good luck to all the blue haired SJWs that will inherit this franchise...
Why did CM even have powers after the second snap? She is powered by the space stone, it's destroyed. She should have been turned off like a light bulb. Why was she so powerful to begin with? Scarlett Witch nearly gets her ass handed to her by Thanos (even without the gauntlet), she is also powered by an infinity stone. Yet CM takes a head butt from Thanos and his head bounces off hers. Makes no sense at all.
That females assemble moment has got to be the stupidest most cringe moment in the history of film. This moment is like WWII German propaganda levels of cringe. Ruined an otherwise decent battle.
The whole theme of the movie is out of the old (white dudes) in with the diversity. The MCU and Disney can fuck off with that shit.
The movie was not all bad though, there were many scenes that worked. The final battle was really fun for the most part it was really nice seeing Thanos wreck some shit without needing the stones. He stole every scene he was in. Tony and Steve had some nice moments too. Ant Man was actually MVP this time around... that was really fun to see.
The MCU is done with me, and I am damn sure done with the MCU. Didn't pay for this movie and I doubt I will ever pay to see anther MCU movie again. Good luck to all the blue haired SJWs that will inherit this franchise...