Support NeoGAF

[Shifty]

This is a subject I've seen pop up a few times on GAF following the release of Sekiro and the recent closed alpha for Nioh 2, and its coverage on the Castle Super Beast podcast got me thinking that it would be interesting to see what GAF as a whole thinks.




Their core thesis is that Nioh is overall the better game. The discussion gets somewhat rambly toward the second half when they start going on tangents to compare against other titles and genres, but the main points are that Nioh has:

• Superior combat systems (not including parry and posture)
  • More complexity
  • Multiple weapon movesets, sub-movesets with stances
  • Extensive skill trees for each
  • Access to more moves at once
  • Devil trigger in the form of the spirit animal
• Wide variety of gear for Fashion Souls
• Convenience features
• Good value
  • Lots of content
  • High replay value
• Open development process
  • Alpha / Beta tests
  • Developers receptive to feeback
  • Extensive post-launch support and expansions

As a negative, they note that the stats and loot system are confusing.

Usually my opinions are in-line with these guys', but this is an instance where I feel that the crazy talk is stronger than it's ever been. I can see the argument that Nioh has the overall superior combat system, but viewed as a whole I think Sekiro wins by a mile. By comparison, it has...

• Excellent defensive mechanics
  • Deep enemy interaction with a fighting game-like focus on reading moves and behaviours
  • More interesting neutral /spacing game thanks to posture recovery
  • High character mobility
  • No stamina limitations
• Greater boss variety
• More interesting loot system
  • All combat-related equips are unique, no disappointment over duplicate loot or RNG
  • No bothersome micromanagement, inventory limits or encumberance
  • Less focus on consumable utilities / buffs
• Cohesive world and level layout
  • Connected world with no map repetition
  • Better visual design
  • Superior traversal and exploration thanks to jump/grapple verticality
• Fair and balanced encounter and area design
  • No 'gotcha' traps, death pits, or various other elements that might be considered unfair
• Well-presented, sensical storyline

Usually I'm of the mind that mechanics come before anything and everything else, and while Nioh does have more going on in that sense, I don't think it makes full use of its systems through enemy, encounter and level design like Sekiro does. The latter feels more polished, like every piece fits together just so, which overall results in a better game if you ask me.

So, what's your position? Have at it.

 

[Lionel Richie]

I won't be checking this thread too often because I'm currently playing Sekiro and I don't want to risk any spoilers, but yeah, Sekiro is just a better game. Nioh is really good, but there's far too much repetition in the enemies and the level design feels very samey so by the end it drags a bit. Sekiro is just an exuberant romp that features a more testing gameplay and a far more interesting story and setting.

 

[Chiggs]

Nioh is a slog. I can't be bothered to finish it. It's just so remarkably un-fun. Combat is cool, but the enemies and environments are noticeably bad. Bosses were also a mixed bag, too.

 

[EviLore]

Nioh is hampered by the repetitive enemy encounters, repetitive and reused levels, and particularly the disconnect between regular encounters and boss battles. The normal encounters don't really teach you or prepare you for the bosses, and the bosses can wreck you in seconds, forcing you to learn the fight from a generally unprepared and unfamiliar state or cheese it.

Sekiro is always leveling up the *player* over the course of the game, and the difficulty curve is high but damn near perfect for what it is.

 

[norrington]

I finished both, I loved both and, despite the first impressions, I would say that games are different at many points.

 

[Danjin44]

For me it's Sekiro, I absolutely in love with the sword play combat system and just like Bloodborne it has amazing art direction and really nice details about the lore if you look for it.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

finished Sekiro into NG+++ and am playing through Nioh for the first time right now. so it's 100 hours vs 4. so far, it has to be Sekiro. the gameplay is IMO the best action combat in decades. enemy design & art design is top notch and level design is inspired and memorable. so far in Nioh i have gotten lost often, i kind of have to use the map, which is not needed for From's games, due to how well they craft their levels (lots of visual landmarks). combat also feels like there are a lot more options in From's game, tho i bet my opinion will change as i get more and more into Nioh. i'm only 4 hours in so this is just my opinion at this moment.

storywise, i love Sekiro, i find the relationship between the shinobi and his charge to be very interesting. it's also very simple to understand, and cool to see it testedn across the various endings. Nioh so far has presented cool looking Hollywood cgi cutscenes, but i can't remember a thing, other than some montages of various glowy monsters.

i do like Nioh, and i bet i will get into it more and more as i keep playing. i'm glad we have so many cool games to choose from, so many approaches to this style of 3rd person action RPG. i appreciate Nioh's more supernatural & glowy approach, whereas Sekiro's is more subdued, subtle, zenlike. Nioh is more of a classic video game which some may prefer and yeah all the loot is a lot of fun. but for me, From is at the peak of their powers, and they continue to top themselves, as well as everyone else.

 

[RedVIper]

You're suposed to be a ninja in Sekiro, not a samurai.

 

[johntown]

They both positives and negatives but the combat in Sekiro is just super satisfying.

I don't really think it is fair to compare to the 2 games. Yes they are feudal Japan and similar in a sense but Sekiro is not an RPG and Nioh 100% is an RPG. Nioh has tons of armor weapons and play-styles to choose from and Sekiro really only has one.

They both re-use a lot of enemies and textures in the game. Sekiro does a terrible job of showing you how to play the game in the first levels. The boss battles are where you really learn how to play the game. Nioh has way more options and replay-ability IMO.

Overall though I like Sekiro better but they are both great games.

 

[Virex]

Ninjas and Samurai are not the same thing

 

[Pejo]

I appreciate Sekiro for trying some new stuff, but Nioh being a Souls/Diablo combo was just too "up my alley" for me to disregard.

For Nioh, I love the build diversity and the fact you can fashion souls in it. There are a ton of reused assets, but it was a mid-budget new IP, so I can understand not going hog wild on the budget for the first game. The action was fast but fair, and some of the moves you unlock really speak to my inner weeb. Hell, even the main character is a major weeb. The sequel looks to be everything I loved from the first game, plus more (hope they bring back 2h Axe though).

Sekiro's got a nice modding scene so far, but I don't really enjoy the core gameplay loop of blocking/parrying as the primary boss fight mechanic. The stealth is one of the best implementations though. Fast and fluid.

I voted Nioh.

 

[ViolentP]

I stuck with Nioh much longer than Sekiro. Both quality products.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I played Nioh a lot but I gotta go with Sekiro here.

All day, every day, twice on Sunday

 

[Punished Miku]

They both do different things well. I think Nioh has far better combat, with much more in depth stances and move lists.

Sekiro is prettier and fun to explore.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I played the Nioh demo and that's it. It's nice to see such heated opinions about the pros and cons of both games. It means that there are some really good qualities to either title. I'll probably end up liking both as a result.

 

[Fbh]

I had a blast with both of them but overall I'd go with Sekiro.
Combat is arguably better in Nioh and it also offers more variety with its multiple weapons, but that's not to say that combat in Sekiro is bad, far from it.
The world, level design, traversal, enemy design, bosses, art direction and overall variety though is way better in Sekiro IMO.
And I'm personally not into random loot. To me it just makes loot feel less relevant and I was mostly annoyed by having to spend several minutes in the menus after every mission checking which slightly better item I had gotten. You find way less gear in Sekiro but every time you do it feels relevant, I might have liked for it to have some customizable armour but I prefer the way it was over RNG loot

 

[Celcius]

I've never played either but voted for Sekiro because I've enjoyed watching people play it on twitch

 

[Kacho]

Not even a contest lol

Sekiro wins by a landslide in all aspects. Just a superior game in every regard with incredibly satisfying combat, awesome bosses and outstanding level design.

 

[xviper]

Both games have lots of cons and pros, Sekiro has the better Gameplay even with the garbage blocking system, and Nioh has the better enemies

but i just want to comment on the following point

Usually my opinions are in-line with these guys', but this is an instance where I feel that the crazy talk is stronger than it's ever been. I can see the argument that Nioh has the overall superior combat system, but viewed as a whole I think Sekiro wins by a mile. By comparison, it has...

• Greater boss variety

What ? did we play the same game ? you're telling me that Sekiro has better boss variety than Nioh ?, only 5 bosses in Sekiro were different than the others, the monkeys, the ape, the horse guy, the demon and the dragon, and all those five boss fights are garbage, the rest of the bosses are normal humans that look like normal enemies but with big health and more moves, not to mentions the awfully repetitive side-bosses.

what makes Sekiro boss fights sucks is the shitty block system, every fight feels the same

Nioh had tons and tons of cons, but the bosses is where it shines, amazing variety of bosses from beasts to humans.

 

[Clear]

Very, very different games despite the surface similarities and frankly given that you'd struggle to get a consensus ranking of FROM's Souls' titles, comparisons are all a bit meaningless anyway.

The truth is I wish FROM's titles were as content rich as Nioh is, and I hate to admit, since DS2's attempt to move the series forward got rejected by a noisy contingent of online fans, their design approach has been increasingly conservative. Sekiro to me seems like yet another step backwards in complexity by jettisoning most of the RPG elements and all of the multi-player mechanics of previous titles.

 

[Phase 3]

I personally like Nioh much more.

Sekiro just got so incredibly tedious by the end of it. So many enemies felt similar, so many boss fights require the same basic strategies and combat got old quickly, especially if you're even remotely good at the game. The ninja tools were a huge let down since most were complete trash and the rest were Mega Man Weakness level of broken against some enemies. You didn't feel clever or thoughtful for using them, you just use it and this debilitates that one specific enemy. The world of Sekiro was gorgeous and the story was a lot more interesting than Nioh, but from a gameplay perspective, which is by far the most important aspect of Souls-like games for me, Nioh's is just far superior.

I could play through Nioh 1,000 times, each time with a completely different build. Weapons, stances, spirits, gear forging, abilities, tools, etc. There were so many ways to customize your combat experience and even when you were OP you could choose how you wanted to be OP. Did you want to go Dynasty Warriors and just combo the hell out of everyone? Did you want to methodically parry and counter? Did you want to play a patient, footsie oriented game? Choose any weapon, any stance, any magic, any ninjutsu, mix match and go nuts. The enemies were also more interesting to me in Nioh.

Sekiro felt so incredibly limited because they give you one weapon with a very limited number of attacks and skills compared to Nioh. It all just felt so stale so quickly. I think it's From's worst game in the Souls family by a far margin, but that's just me. I didn't want Tenchu. I wanted a Souls game, and part of that is on me. Those were my expectations.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed both. I got the Plat on both Sekiro and Nioh + all DLC 100% so I played the hell out of both games. I wouldn't have done that if I were miserable the whole time, but I just expected much more out of Sekiro.

 

[Danjin44]

Very, very different games despite the surface similarities and frankly given that you'd struggle to get a consensus ranking of FROM's Souls' titles, comparisons are all a bit meaningless anyway.

The truth is I wish FROM's titles were as content rich as Nioh is, and I hate to admit, since DS2's attempt to move the series forward got rejected by a noisy contingent of online fans, their design approach has been increasingly conservative. Sekiro to me seems like yet another step backwards in complexity by jettisoning most of the RPG elements and all of the multi-player mechanics of previous titles.

Because they weren't try to make an RPG. Are you telling me making "RPG" is the step forward!!? That only thing complaining I here towards Sekiro, "why isn't an RPG like their past game?"

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Nioh sucks, PS3 quality graphics, bland levels and busted ass difficulty and gameplay design, I was sorely disappointed in it.

Sekiro is better in literally every single way, if they think Nioh is better they are nuts.

 

[zeorhymer]

Sekiro is focused like a sniper rifle. Nioh is like a shotgun.

 

[Clear]

Because they weren't try to make an RPG. Are you telling making "RPG" is the step forward!!? That only thing complaining I here towards Sekiro, "why isn't an RPG like their past game?"

No, I just wanted more systems and mechanics to play with. Being able to improve and customize my gear is nice too especially when I'm supposed to be playing as an avatar of myself in the game. Being able to co-op with friends, help out or duel with strangers was nice too. Being able to dynamically modify the overall difficulty was huge, especially as a core principle of the gameplay is to provide a meaningful challenge, satisfying to overcome.

Also, I was talking about every title they've put out since DS2, not specifically Sekiro. I'm just pointing out that rather than a successful series gaining depth and complexity as its gone forwards, Souls' games have in actuality gotten simpler and more streamlined. The trade off for that streamlining has been what exactly?

 

[mcjmetroid]

Nioh got boring fast for me. Boring plodding level design that would make the early stages in dark souls 1 blush. You know the classic I can't get over this tiny rock to get the item so I need to meander around staircases to get to the other side if the wall.

It may have better combat but Sekiro is like an evolution of the game is almost every respect.

Sure it doesn't have as much weapons but it's very focused on what it does.

Also grappling hook absolutely kicks ass.

On paper Nioh might sound better but it's really not.

 

[Wesleyalucard]

The two are repetitive.

 

[Danjin44]

No, I just wanted more systems and mechanics to play with. Being able to improve and customize my gear is nice too especially when I'm supposed to be playing as an avatar of myself in the game. Being able to co-op with friends, help out or duel with strangers was nice too. Being able to dynamically modify the overall difficulty was huge, especially as a core principle of the gameplay is to provide a meaningful challenge, satisfying to overcome.

Also, I was talking about every title they've put out since DS2, not specifically Sekiro. I'm just pointing out that rather than a successful series gaining depth and complexity as its gone forwards, Souls' games have in actuality gotten simpler and more streamlined. The trade off for that streamlining has been what exactly?

Again Sekiro straight up action game, is less about improving your gear and more about mastering the combat and trade off is in my opinion having most satisfying combat in any FROM game.

 

[Clear]

Again Sekiro straight up action game, is less about improving your gear and more about mastering the combat and trade off is in my opinion having most satisfying combat in any FROM game.

All FROM's Souls games have satisfying combat, its the core appeal of the series! That box is checked by Nioh too, now what else is on the menu?

Look, when I was playing Demon's Souls on PS3, pretty much blind. It was fun figuring out all its arcane systems like world and character tendency, and seeing what goodies I got from that. I hate that they've lost that, and even when it is there its watered down to the point where its of minimal use.

 

[Danjin44]

All FROM's Souls games have satisfying combat, its the core appeal of the series! That box is checked by Nioh too, now what else is on the menu?

I would say I enjoyed Sekiro's combat more than any Souls/Bloodborne and Nioh and for that very reason I put 100 + hours in to this game and got all endings and planning start all over again from scratch. I personally don't care about co-op or PVP, I played all souls and Boodborne offline and I don't really care about "loots" I most care about having satisfying combat and Sekiro give the best kind.

 

[Clear]

I would say I enjoyed Sekiro's combat more than any Souls/Bloodborne and Nioh and for that very reason I put 100 + hours in to this game and got all endings and planning start all over again from scratch. I personally don't care about co-op or PVP, I played all souls and Boodborne offline and I don't really care about "loots" I most care about having satisfying combat and Sekiro give the best kind.

I believe I've put 600 hours into Nioh (!) which is pretty much triple any of FROM's games, every one of which I've platinumed multiple times.

To be frank though, I REALLY do not want to bash FROM's stuff, I've had way too much fun with them over the years. But, I do struggle with them being treated as sacred cows, they could be improved upon. And especially if you feel that at the core they are really on-point, then those improvements might lie in adding extra dimensions to the overall package.

My point is that Nioh offers Souls' style combat action, PLUS a full-blown Diablo style looter RPG metagame. It has co-op, PVP, a faction system, virtually everything is customizable, especially the difficulty of the challenges offered thanks to its best-in-class NG+ system.

I'm sorry, but its hard to discount all those positives.

 

[Danjin44]

I believe I've put 600 hours into Nioh (!) which is pretty much triple any of FROM's games, every one of which I've platinumed multiple times.

To be frank though, I REALLY do not want to bash FROM's stuff, I've had way too much fun with them over the years. But, I do struggle with them being treated as sacred cows, they could be improved upon. And especially if you feel that at the core they are really on-point, then those improvements might lie in adding extra dimensions to the overall package.

My point is that Nioh offers Souls' style combat action, PLUS a full-blown Diablo style looter RPG metagame. It has co-op, PVP, a faction system, virtually everything is customizable, especially the difficulty of the challenges offered thanks to its best-in-class NG+ system.

I'm sorry, but its hard to discount all those positives.

But not all games needs to be RPG with loots and co-op/PVP, from the beginning we knew this game was going be single player action game. You are judging this game "what it should be" instead what the actual game is. I'm glad FROM decide to make an action game instead another RPG, we have plenty of other RPGs out there already and Code Vein and Nioh 2 going to be another one. So what wrong if FROM wants make something different instead of making another Souls games, I always support developers wants to do something new, this how we got games like Catherine from Persona team and Gravity Rush from Siren team.

 

[Clear]

But not all games needs to be RPG with loots and co-op/PVP, from the beginning we knew this game was going be single player action game. You are judging this game "what it should be" instead what the actual game is. I'm glad FROM decide to make an action game instead another RPG, we have plenty of other RPGs out there already and Code Vein and Nioh 2 going to be another one. So what wrong if FROM wants make something different instead of making another Souls games, I always support developers wants to do something new, this how we got games like Catherine from Persona team and Gravity Rush from Siren team.

I'm not saying that. I was simply pointing out that when you play a game that has all these extra features, you feel their absence when they aren't present. Doubly so, when previous entries in the same series USED TO offer at least some of them.

 

[Oddspeak]

To clarify, I believe Sekiro isn't Souls. But, I'll join the minority and say Nioh. I still like Sekiro, but frankly I feel like I've experienced everything that game had to offer after only two playthroughs (one NG and one NG+).

Sekiro's combat is intuitive and simple, but not as deep. Nioh gives you far more viable options that you can use to any extent and get creative with. Sekiro's open world also works against it because most of its rewards for exploration are straight up trash -- consumables you'll mostly never use. The fact that anyone would use it's "loot system" as positive is confusing to me. On repeat playthroughs, you just keep the locations of prayer beads and gourd seeds in mind and pretty much ignore everything else. It really shines a light on how much of the game is completely skippable with no consequence, including minibosses.

Also, the stealth in Sekiro is straight-up Skyrim tier in both shallowness and strength. You crouch in chest-high grass, and you're invisible to everything with eyes. Now, this isn't a HUGE deal, as the game was clearly designed around it, but I feel like very little would be different if it weren't even there, especially since stealthing bosses isn't even possible, with the exception of, I think, just one (two if you count Folding Screen Monkeys, but you're kind of expected to be stealthy there anyway).

• Deep enemy interaction with a fighting game-like focus on reading moves and behaviours
• More interesting neutral /spacing game thanks to posture recovery

This stuff about combat in Sekiro is present in Nioh too. In fact, its how all Souls-likes operate. They popularized "hitbox porn," for crying out loud. Only difference is Sekiro's perilous attacks, which are only counterable with specific, designated moves. So, yeah, Sekiro is slightly closer to a fighting game, but all the other Souls-like still have the same concepts to a slightly lesser extent.

I see and understand why people would argue Sekiro's better because it's a tighter experience with less fat to trim, but at the end of the day, I like the open-endedness of Nioh more. To me, the only things Sekiro truly has over Nioh is more interesting and fantastical areas and better boss designs.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm not saying that. I was simply pointing out that when you play a game that has all these extra features, you feel their absence when they aren't present. Doubly so, when previous entries in the same series USED TO offer at least some of them.

Sekiro is not Souls games, it might share some elements from those games but it's not Souls game and it's not trying to be one. It same wasCatherine, it also shares some elements from Persona but it's definitely not a Persona game.

What's I'm getting from your post is you simply wanted another Souls like RPG and that's not what you got.

You check my post history, before Sekiro was coming out I told many, many, many times people shouldn't expect "Souls" game out this game but here we are.

.

especially since stealthing bosses isn't even possible, with the exception of, I think, just one (two if you count Folding Screen Monkeys, but you're kind of expected to be stealthy there anyway).

You can actually stealth kill their first health bar of most minibosses.

 

[Clear]

Sekiro is not Souls games, it might share some elements from those games but it's not Souls game and it's not trying to be one. It same wasCatherine, it also shares some elements from Persona but it's definitely not a Persona game.

What's I'm getting from your post is you simply wanted another Souls like RPG and that's not what you got.

You check my post history, before Sekiro was coming out I told many, many, many times people shouldn't expect "Souls" game out this game but here we are.

How many times do I have to point out I was talking about FROM's output generally? Seriously go back to post #25, I straight up say:

Also, I was talking about every title they've put out since DS2, not specifically Sekiro. I'm just pointing out that rather than a successful series gaining depth and complexity as its gone forwards, Souls' games have in actuality gotten simpler and more streamlined.

Why should I check your post history when you won't even recognize a clear statement on my part on the same page of this thread!

 

[Oddspeak]

You can actually stealth kill their first health bar of most minibosses.

I know, and I appreciate the option, but I think the entire presence of stealth would feel more significant if you could use stealth for the entire encounter in some way. Obviously, with the way the game is currently built, you can't do that without it being totally busted, but in an ideal world, it'd be nice and make stealth-only runs of the whole game possible.

 

[Danjin44]

How many times do I have to point out I was talking about FROM's output generally? Seriously go back to post #25, I straight up say:

But you said you expected Sekiro have RPG elements from other Souls series because they part of same series.

I'm not saying that. I was simply pointing out that when you play a game that has all these extra features, you feel their absence when they aren't present. Doubly so, when previous entries in the same series USED TO offer at least some of them.

And I said Sekiro is not part of Soul series so you can't exactly expect this game to have RPG elements just Souls games did.

I know, and I appreciate the option, but I think the entire presence of stealth would feel more significant if you could use stealth for the entire encounter in some way. Obviously, with the way the game is currently built, you can't do that without it being totally busted, but in an ideal world, it'd be nice and make stealth-only runs of the whole game possible.

But that would just destroy all the fun and challenge out of the game. I feel like some of you expecting entirely different game.

 

[Oddspeak]

But that would just destroy all the fun and challenge out of the game. I feel like some of you expecting entirely different game.

I literally said "with the way the game is currently built, you can't do that without it being totally busted." I agree with you. IN A PERFECT WORLD, I'd still like the game's stealth to be of more consequence than it actually was, but without being broken, because as it is now, it's just overpowered despite being shallow -- like Skyrim, as I mentioned.

 

[Danjin44]

I literally said "with the way the game is currently built, you can't do that without it being totally busted." I agree with you. IN A PERFECT WORLD, I'd still like the game's stealth to be of more consequence than it actually was, but without being broken, because as it is now, it's just overpowered despite being shallow -- like Skyrim, as I mentioned.

But the stealth is not big focus here, it's same thing as Bloodborne you can just walk slowly behind enemies for visceral attack. It's there to give you some advantage over some minibosses and easily kill some enemies so you won't have to keep fighting them.

 

[RedVIper]

But not all games needs to be RPG with loots and co-op/PVP, from the beginning we knew this game was going be single player action game. You are judging this game "what it should be" instead what the actual game is. I'm glad FROM decide to make an action game instead another RPG, we have plenty of other RPGs out there already and Code Vein and Nioh 2 going to be another one. So what wrong if FROM wants make something different instead of making another Souls games, I always support developers wants to do something new, this how we got games like Catherine from Persona team and Gravity Rush from Siren team.

I'm fine with From trying out new stuff.

But Sekiro for me was a much worse game than their previous entries.

And we have a lot more action games than we have RPG's, so From trying "something new" by doing the same thing everyone else is doing isn't exactly innovative.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm fine with From trying out new stuff.

But Sekiro for me was a much worse game than their previous entries.

And we have a lot more action games than we have RPG's, so From trying "something new" by doing the same thing everyone else is doing isn't exactly innovative.

Not for me, I enjoyed both Sekiro and Bloodborne more than Demon's Souls and Dark Souls series and also their action combat is different most other action games.

Again, to me not having RPG elements or co-op/PVP is not negative.

 

[RedVIper]

Not for me, I enjoyed both Sekiro and Bloodborne more than Demon's Souls and Dark Souls series and also their action combat is different most other action games.

Again, to me not having RPG elements or co-op/PVP is not negative.

You do understand that BB stil has plenty of RPG elements.

And the lack of RPG elements is not the only reason I didn't like sekiro as much.

 

[Danjin44]

You do understand that BB stil has plenty of RPG elements.

And the lack of RPG elements is not the only reason I didn't like sekiro as much.

I do, I like Bloodborne as an RPG and I like Sekiro as an action game, that all there is to it. But if you ask me which of the combat in FROM game i enjoyed the most I have to go with Sekiro.

In the end what I wanted from Sekiro is the satisfying and fun combat with epic boss battles and I got exactly what I wanted, especially the lass boss was one the best boss battles I experienced in recent years. I don't care about any loots, RPG elements or co-op/PVP, in all honestly thats not really why I play FromSofware games.

 

[DjMystix]

I don't know why I didn't like Nioh but Mikiri Counter is one of the best moves in videogame history IMO. It is still my game of the year and I'm not even a fan of From Software

 

[Hinedorf]

I've only played Nioh because I don't want to get addicted to another game that makes me hate myself.

I always thought Nioh was a Fromsoft game or at least an attempted clone. I'm waiting for when Sekiro reaches the 20$ mark to accept some suffering.

 

[Kamina]

Nioh is closer to Demons/Dark Souls, and focuses on Samurai mostly, with some exceptions.
Sekiro is more of a Bloodborne evolution, strays away from RPG components and is a pure Ninja game.

 

[Shifty]

Zoinks scoob, 47 posts! Looks like polls really do draw people in

Sekiro is always leveling up the *player* over the course of the game, and the difficulty curve is high but damn near perfect for what it is.

Exactly. I think this is the point I was longwindedly trying to get at with the idea that everything "fits together just so" - the difficulty pacing is pristine.

You're suposed to be a ninja in Sekiro, not a samurai.

Ninjas and Samurai are not the same thing

s e m a n t i c b o y z

This thought did cross my mind while I was writing the OP, but I don't think either game commits hard enough to its Ninja / Samurai conceit to justify the differentiation.

William is a samurai, but he learns and employs ninjutsu. Wolf is a ninja, but he learns and employs samurai swordfighting techniques, and is enough of a superman to hold his own in samurai-style one-versus-many open combat situations.

If it helps you can think of it as "Feudal Japan Souls Shodown" instead, but that doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well.

This stuff about combat in Sekiro is present in Nioh too. In fact, its how all Souls-likes operate. They popularized "hitbox porn," for crying out loud. Only difference is Sekiro's perilous attacks, which are only counterable with specific, designated moves. So, yeah, Sekiro is slightly closer to a fighting game, but all the other Souls-like still have the same concepts to a slightly lesser extent.

That's a fair point, though I was more going for the comparative angle- they both have it, but I think Sekiro does that stuff better than Nioh because of how defense-focused its combat is.

The stamina bar is a lynchpin of Nioh's footsies game and ties into every action, forcing you to drop guard and back off to recover, or leave yourself open for longer in order to hit the ki pulse timing.

On the other hand, Sekiro lets you do whatever until you've taken enough unparried damage to incur a stun, which puts less restrictions on your neutral game, and also resembles street fighter's stagger bar to a certain extent.

Sekiro also forces you to keep your defense game on-point when under pressure, much like a fighting game, by regenerating faster while you block is up rather than down. This also has the nice side effect of curtailing the panicked dodge roll backdown that results from an equivalent situation in Souls games.

And we have a lot more action games than we have RPG's, so From trying "something new" by doing the same thing everyone else is doing isn't exactly innovative.

Do we? I feel like the pure action genre is lacking compared to the PS2 days when you couldn't walk five steps without tripping over a hack-and-slash. Nowadays it feels like even if something has action combat, it's more often than not going to be hamstrung with RPG stats.

 

[Clear]

Nioh is closer to Demons/Dark Souls, and focuses on Samurai mostly, with some exceptions.
Sekiro is more of a Bloodborne evolution, strays away from RPG components and is a pure Ninja game.

That really depends on play-style. Suppa and Catwalking ninjutsu make you undetectable by most enemy types, and provided you can one-shot the enemy, remain active for their full duration even after killing them. This in conjunction with charge attacks like Iai Quickdraw or Twisting Spear allows to severely damage or even instakill even tough Yokai hiding in the mist. By endgame (Way of The Wise/Nioh) its by far the most effective strategy for clearing missions safely.

Nioh's stealth mechanics are ridiculously powerful, especially as many enemies do not react aggressively when debuffs are placed on them by an unseen player. They are also relatively cheap and plentiful in terms of equipping, 15 suppa scrolls will get you a long way especially as they replenish at shrines and can be refilled by gear abilities and shinobi boxes.

Then there is the option to create insanely OP'd shuriken builds, which although harder than it used to be thanks to later patches nerfing the worst exploits (like infinite LW) is still possible today.

Its just indicative of how well put together Nioh's battle systems are that regardless if you want to stress melee, ranged, magic or stealth based builds, it is possible to get any style to work supremely effectively.

 

[Hostile_18]

I played about 15 hours of Nioh. The bat boss kicked my arse for about 4 hours till I finally beat her. I didn't feel glad unlike when i beat the Dark Souls bosses, more it was too tough to be fun. The same levels reused kept coming up straight after as well.

I've enjoyed and beat all the soulsbornes games as well. The sense of place and progression makes these games fun. Niohs got the combat down but that's it, I don't think I'll return to it.