GHG
Member
The fact that these repetitive franchises exist doesn't change what I said.
A lot of developers will accept what could be described as menial work in order to get their foot in the door or to build their profile.
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Want AAA Games? Say YES to crunch and NO to unions...
- Thread starter davidjaffe
- Start date
The fact that these repetitive franchises exist doesn't change what I said.
A lot of developers will accept what could be described as menial work in order to get their foot in the door or to build their profile.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I wholeheartedly agree with this and was thinking why do companies always do that? Why announce your game so early when you know it’s several years off and you will inevitably run into technical issues, changes, glitches, etc.
Personally, I wouldn’t announce or even show it off until it’s in a much more complete state and isn’t that far off from a reasonable release date.
GHG
Member
Funding and/or to get the backing of a publisher.
davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
No offense, but tough shit.
I don't mean to be a dick but some people- and perhaps in particular, younger people- are soft as shit these days when it comes to this stuff.
You were not in demand enough to get the better job offers so you got 'stuck' with a salaried job that doesn't pay over time and makes you work real hard? Oh well- kick ass and then use the experience to hop to a better job. That's how it works.
You know where Cory and the combat guys who did all the fighting on GOD OF WAR 1 were before Santa Monica? They were busting ass making C level BACKYARD WRESTLING games. And they earned their chops and then when a giant company like Sony was looking for people they stood out because of work ethic and attitude and skills. That's how it works.
People being sad cause they didn't get a plumb gig when they started out are really odd birds to me. It's not school where everyone gets to play. Not happy with your lot in life when it comes to work? I can respect and appreciate that. Get better and keep chasing the dream. No one starts at the top. It's never worked that way. I started out in QA and put in weekends and nights and took all sorts of chances in order to try to convince the powers that be I could design. I didn't get paid for it, I didn't get paid for staying late. Fuck man, I LOVED it...cause I was chasing a damn dream and I KNEW- be it at Sony or elsewhere- if I just kept working hard and smart, I'd get over the wall. To paraphrase Rocky: that's how winning is done.
I feel like any ambitious project in the entertainment industry will come with some degree of "crunch".
Especially if the people behind such a project are determined that it be as good as humanly possible.
Getting rid of that feels like a good way to turn videogame development into a "production line" of products that are safe enough to meet deadlines and to not need anything outside a 40 hour work week to complete.
Even outside of the entertainment industry people will often go above and beyond simply because they have pride in their work.
Shit, some people will stay up all night working on hobbies or pet projects that they won't even get paid for.
I dunno. Some of these people on Twitter seem to look at "Game Developer" as a trendy hipster job that you can brag about to your friends to show how cool you are. So of course they think it should just be an easy 9 to 5 gig with no stress and no sacrifice.
Especially if the people behind such a project are determined that it be as good as humanly possible.
Getting rid of that feels like a good way to turn videogame development into a "production line" of products that are safe enough to meet deadlines and to not need anything outside a 40 hour work week to complete.
Even outside of the entertainment industry people will often go above and beyond simply because they have pride in their work.
Shit, some people will stay up all night working on hobbies or pet projects that they won't even get paid for.
I dunno. Some of these people on Twitter seem to look at "Game Developer" as a trendy hipster job that you can brag about to your friends to show how cool you are. So of course they think it should just be an easy 9 to 5 gig with no stress and no sacrifice.
Orpheum
Member
I get the Idea of crunch time. Big corporate projects require crunch to some extent, my friends who work in IT have to put in more time towards the end of their projects, hell even i have to "crunch" sometimes if a project has a strict deadline. I can get behind it if it's just a few weeks and the employees are adequately compensated.
However months upon months of no sunlight, private life and nothing but work is downright insanity. These are human beings working on a game, not robots. Corporations NEED to treat them accordingly.
I also partly blame the audience crying and shaking with every small delay as if their life depends on it. Wtf people it's coming out a little later as expected, no need for full blown meltdowns
However months upon months of no sunlight, private life and nothing but work is downright insanity. These are human beings working on a game, not robots. Corporations NEED to treat them accordingly.
I also partly blame the audience crying and shaking with every small delay as if their life depends on it. Wtf people it's coming out a little later as expected, no need for full blown meltdowns
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Tragic Denial
Member
what i don't get about this whole issue about unions/crunch and what have you is why the fuck journos & youtubers & people in the industry keep banging on OUR doors with this stuff
like, what they think we are able to do for them? call the UN and tell them to send the blue berets?
like, what they think we are able to do for them? call the UN and tell them to send the blue berets?
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
You're being an embarrasment to this forum, in all honesty.
And that's coming from someone like me, dude. Get a grip on yourself.
My assumption is that if they successfully manage to smear a publisher or developer then it may hurt their profits and so marketing will take steps to appeal to "ethical gamers" who will only play games from games journalist approved sources.
Maybe development companies will get a wee sticker like "Polygon Approved No Crunch Developer" or something.
It's just another way in which many of the people reporting on gaming are behaving like activists rather than journalists.
EightBit Man
Member
To be fair, they are in different degrees going through hardships. That Western and Japanese corporations exploit the people beyond their boundaries is something absolutely horrifying, and most people prefer to keep their eyes closed to it. Or they buy into the lies propagated through the so-called "economic freedom map" of The Heritage Foundation, or some other rubbish. In the end, we're all miserable because of the way things are set up.
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MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
I genuinely needed this for my own personal journey through my entry job work life at the moment.
Truly inspiring to read that Cory started out as a dev for backyard wrestling games and now he's in the upper echelon of game creatives right next to Hidetaka Miyazaki and Hideo Kojima.
I just want to say we really appreciate your honesty and input into this matter because your thoughts and perspective will always matter and be valuable in any gaming forum.
Rean no Kiseki
Banned
poor analogy my friend, if Bangladesh was as wealthy as the US they would've asked the same.
DESTROYA
Member
There’s crunch in most jobs just not to the extent of it being In the video game industry but still there.
Try owning a small business or starting one and then you’ll see real crunch, hell I used to regularly work over 100 hours a week over 7 days with no days off not making a cent but if your good at what you do it usually balances out eventually. No one ever said doing what you love is easy .
Try owning a small business or starting one and then you’ll see real crunch, hell I used to regularly work over 100 hours a week over 7 days with no days off not making a cent but if your good at what you do it usually balances out eventually. No one ever said doing what you love is easy .
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Spoken like an actual businessman who must've dealt with this issue personally, and I mean that as a compliment.
Folks seem caught between two choices in a false dichotomy: either accept your "slave wage" and be grateful, or complain about your wage and blame the selfish employer.
A third option -- leverage your employer for a better position or better job elsewhere -- rarely materializes in these conversations.
Mihos
Gold Member
Personally, I will never work a union job. The ability to negotiate my own terms of employment is just too fundamental to my state of being.
Outside of some of the extreme disasters crunch time stories, this seems like every other type of industry such as a farm during harvest, a fishery during season, a hospital during a crisis, a sports team during training, business opening a new facility in a new region, etc has a version of this. I think the whole 'it's just a game' thing is what people are clinging on to. To certain people the task is irrelevent to the effort they put in. If I am going to make you sandwich, then I am going to make you a fucking great sandwich.
I have spent months away out of country for many reasons over the course of my career. I had to make my own personal decisions on how much of the time and effort was worth the sacrifice, and in some cases, it just wasn't. It just depends on what level you want to compete, and that is something that may change over time depending on your short term goals.
Outside of some of the extreme disasters crunch time stories, this seems like every other type of industry such as a farm during harvest, a fishery during season, a hospital during a crisis, a sports team during training, business opening a new facility in a new region, etc has a version of this. I think the whole 'it's just a game' thing is what people are clinging on to. To certain people the task is irrelevent to the effort they put in. If I am going to make you sandwich, then I am going to make you a fucking great sandwich.
I have spent months away out of country for many reasons over the course of my career. I had to make my own personal decisions on how much of the time and effort was worth the sacrifice, and in some cases, it just wasn't. It just depends on what level you want to compete, and that is something that may change over time depending on your short term goals.
Hawks Eclipse
Member
Nice, I'll add another example: in something as common as F&B, you get paid the same hourly wage even though there will be hours where you don't do much and hours where you won't even have time to visit the toilet (outside of extreme cases like diarrhoea or vomiting).
Also, your last sentence in the section I quoted is a great attitude for F&B.
davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
End of the day, it really does come down to work ethic and drive. Not everyone has it. Your sandwich example is perfect. In the various companies I've worked in we've hired people with less experience because they had that 'sandwich gene'; the sense that whatever we threw at them they would do everything they could to make it work. THOSE are the people you want in the trenches with you, even if- on paper- they are not as 'valuable' as someone with more experience. Granted, it depends on the job. An online high end engineer needs the chops. But a starting position? Fuck it- take the person w/work ethic and fire in his gut cause that motherfucker is going places and you want to benefit from what he brings to the team.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Hey guys, I don't know shit about the development of video games but I wanna say no to crunch because I like signaling my virtue that I care about the workers making my games and I absolutely NEVER EVER have complained about a game being delayed or taking a long time to release.
When you consider the massive cultural impact of gaming you can add another factor into the mix. You can't really control what's going to be popular or well received by the public.
You can have a bunch of US based developers bringing out cookie cutter games created in perfectly sterilized and controlled environments with quiet rooms and support animals and HR departments that are available 24/7 but nobody can be forced to buy their games. Kotaku and Polygon writers show up on Fridays for the weekly bum licking session.
The problem is that eventually this will all be turned on it's head by people who are willing to go the extra mile. Usually people who are willing to go to ridiculous lengths to bring out the best in themselves and others end up being the ones who have the biggest success. Ultimately, it shows in the work.
It's like Masahiro Sakurai who famously works way to hard and puts way to much of his life into Smash Bros.
In the end it's only a guy like that, leading a team like that, who can create a game like that.
Or when you watch those "making of" videos for The Lord of the Rings and they make it seem like making movies is the most horrific job in the entire world BUT they also made some of the most epic moments in cinema history. Meanwhile, 9 to 5 no-stress movie studio is sending their content straight to the DVD bargain bin.
CuNi
Member
That guy in the video has got it wrong. Game Devs can't be "easily swapped out" nor can the be "easily replaced with workforce from Asia".
If it were that easy and the quality would be up to their standards, that's what everyone already would do to reduce costs. Fact is, outsourcing game dev would make it way harder to coordinate everything, deliver expected levels of quality and much more. I mean "some" crunch is okay, but those guys work their asses off. You hear it quit often that they work 11h or more and even on weekdays.
I'm glad to be living in Germany and be protected by law to not have to work such hours. I really do think that devs should unionize.
If it were that easy and the quality would be up to their standards, that's what everyone already would do to reduce costs. Fact is, outsourcing game dev would make it way harder to coordinate everything, deliver expected levels of quality and much more. I mean "some" crunch is okay, but those guys work their asses off. You hear it quit often that they work 11h or more and even on weekdays.
I'm glad to be living in Germany and be protected by law to not have to work such hours. I really do think that devs should unionize.
I have no issue with crunch within the industry, and even if unions formed I think it will still be a necessary part of production. That said, the people crunching do need to be able to get a slice of the pie if that crunch leads to overwhelming success upon release.
Don't think that will ever happen though. Oh well.
Don't think that will ever happen though. Oh well.
Mochilador
Member
This right here. I work as a software dev too and unions are not the answer.
A better planning and good practices are the answer, imo.
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davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
I'm the guy in the video. I've been making video games for 20+ years, big and small ones.
For the last 15 years EVERY game I've worked on has used some form of outsourcing, from big to small.
It's a normal part of game making now. Many elements of your favorite games are NOT made by the dev team but directed by the team to overseas workers (part of the publishers, other times not) and then sent back to the main studio to put it all together, make some adjustments,etc.
This will become a bigger aspect of game dev if publishers are being asked to deal with local unions IMO.
Jaffe
cai24
Banned
My friends are getting in the age where they come to me, saying: "My kid loves games and wants to be making games like you, you have been making games for 25 years, do you got any tips on how he can get started?". My advice is usually: "No" and "I don't"*.
And why so negative? Because to survive there takes some serious willpower. You need the kind of mentality where you can solve your problems yourself, figure things out for yourself, and you need to be so stubborn that if you get there, you probably are self sufficient enough to not listen to old farts like me anyway. If you go there thinking that someone will hold your hand or that you can get it easy, you are in for some hard times. I may not like it (I am pro union), and I don't like the fact either that crunch exists, but what I think that Jaffe was saying was that we simply have to address the facts before we can move anywhere in that discussion. And I can certainly agree with that.
*=(Though sometimes, if it seems they are going to go for it anyway, I also advice them to study for some alternate profession, so they can get a job more easily, if things go wrong, or I might direct them to my webcomic on how game development is like)
And why so negative? Because to survive there takes some serious willpower. You need the kind of mentality where you can solve your problems yourself, figure things out for yourself, and you need to be so stubborn that if you get there, you probably are self sufficient enough to not listen to old farts like me anyway. If you go there thinking that someone will hold your hand or that you can get it easy, you are in for some hard times. I may not like it (I am pro union), and I don't like the fact either that crunch exists, but what I think that Jaffe was saying was that we simply have to address the facts before we can move anywhere in that discussion. And I can certainly agree with that.
*=(Though sometimes, if it seems they are going to go for it anyway, I also advice them to study for some alternate profession, so they can get a job more easily, if things go wrong, or I might direct them to my webcomic on how game development is like)
Kazza
Member
Interesting thread. I also have a question:
How do project managers stop employee performance dropping like a rock during crunch time (as tends to happen with intellectual/brain work)?
I've had 3 periods in my working life where I have been in "crunch" like situations:
1. During mango harvest time in Australia - I was fine working 12+ hour days 7 days a week, because the work was light physical labour, so you just became a robot and you were fine (if a tired)
2. Working a 9-5 office job in the day, and then a 6-12 bar job in the evening - also fine, as the 6 hours of standing/walking/talking to customers in the bar job provided a nice break from the sitting/staring at a screen of the office job (and vice versa the next morning)
3. Working 12+ hours office work - not so fine! Sure, I could theoretically work 16 hours, but after the 10th hour or so I noticed that both myself and my colleagues became very tired and productivity dropped off dramatically (and the number of errors increased).
Doesn't increased hours beyond a certain point (especially to the point of sacrificing sleep) actually begin to slow down development rather than increase it? Maybe I'm overestimating the creativity needed in the crunch period. If it's just a case of grinding out relatively simple code without having to think too much, then I can see that this wouldn't be such a problem.
How do project managers stop employee performance dropping like a rock during crunch time (as tends to happen with intellectual/brain work)?
I've had 3 periods in my working life where I have been in "crunch" like situations:
1. During mango harvest time in Australia - I was fine working 12+ hour days 7 days a week, because the work was light physical labour, so you just became a robot and you were fine (if a tired)
2. Working a 9-5 office job in the day, and then a 6-12 bar job in the evening - also fine, as the 6 hours of standing/walking/talking to customers in the bar job provided a nice break from the sitting/staring at a screen of the office job (and vice versa the next morning)
3. Working 12+ hours office work - not so fine! Sure, I could theoretically work 16 hours, but after the 10th hour or so I noticed that both myself and my colleagues became very tired and productivity dropped off dramatically (and the number of errors increased).
Doesn't increased hours beyond a certain point (especially to the point of sacrificing sleep) actually begin to slow down development rather than increase it? Maybe I'm overestimating the creativity needed in the crunch period. If it's just a case of grinding out relatively simple code without having to think too much, then I can see that this wouldn't be such a problem.
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StormCell
Member
No offense, but tough shit.
I don't mean to be a dick but some people- and perhaps in particular, younger people- are soft as shit these days when it comes to this stuff.
You were not in demand enough to get the better job offers so you got 'stuck' with a salaried job that doesn't pay over time and makes you work real hard? Oh well- kick ass and then use the experience to hop to a better job. That's how it works.
You're not being a dick at all. It's the cold hard truth. I recognized before I left college with my comp. sci. degree that working hellish amounts of overtime wasn't as fun as having a social life. So I began my career in web development and bought a boat. Those were great times!
I eventually grew up some more and then worked some heavy crunch hours as a software dev. That was my decision, and I was prepared for it. I knew before I started the gig that it was higher risk/reward.
Point is that people prefer to see themselves as victims, but freedom is almost always there staring them in the face.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
I'm personally very ok with people (and I mean people that actually are in a place to have any experience about the topic, not starry-eyed wannabes who never shipped a game) making a push for better work conditions. I don't think they'll get much, but more power to them. Even if they get "something" it's better than nothing.
What I am absolutely not OK with is the usual union drivel I've seen in many industries, which I have a feeling is what pushed you to make a video this extreme. It's heavily political and absolutely dripping with the "if you're not with us you're against us" crap. Since this whole "anti-crunch" movement started, I've seen many shaming and attacking developers who are happy to work as hard as they can by their own choice, because they're driven and passionate and want to deliver the best game possible. That kind of "they make us who don't want to work as much look bad, so they should be shamed into working less" attitude is absolutely despicable.
I'm not a developer, but as a gaming writer (I actually prefer this definition to "journalist" nowadays, because the "journalists" seem to be too busy staring at their image in the mirror and pushing their agendas on developers instead of writing about games) who works literally 265 days a year (including Christmas and every weekend/holiday), often upward to 14-16 hours a day because the news don't stop for me, I can definitely relate with developers who WANT to work as hard as they possibly can for their art, themselves, and their audience.
My bosses often tell me to take a break or not to work as hard, but I'm glad they don't FORCE me to, because I want to do the best job I can, and that's not accomplished by sitting on my ass. It's my choice, and they respect it even if they don't agree. Others in the same outlet choose to work less, and I respect their choice, so everyone wins.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Game quality should be #1
Mitsuda Maniac
Member
Me too I guess. I just want to play games. Unless people are outright being abused behind the scenes, I just assume everyone who was involed participated voluntarily and just enjoy the game if its good.
Even when there are unions in a given sector, companies don't need to hire or acknowledge unions and unionized workers. Unions grossly benefit the administrators and rarely anyone else. There are so many examples of big companies getting sick of unions and their rules, so they do things to skirt the union's rules by hiring temp or part time employees, ensuring that the new employees will never reach enough hours to get the status of the full time employees.
This union push is from the people that will form the administration, gamers that have 0 skin in the game are just pawns of those folks.
Crunch is not good, but here's a possible scenario, a company decides to have unionized employees, but they can't crunch them, so they hire scabs(non-union workers) and the make those scabs do the crunch while the unionized people have their hours cut, but not too deeply to anger the union. Going deeper into the scenario, unionized workers get angry, go on strike, make LESS money, use their strike fund(which is there for this sole purpose) company SAVES money and gets the work done while saving the money by not paying their unionized workers. In this case, the union pretends to care and makes empty gestures in the media, while still getting their fees and telling everyone how amazing they are.
Also crunch would probably be a grievable offence, nothing more, anyone that's worked in a unionized environment truly knows what a joke the grieving system is.
This isn't some kind of stuff I just made up, this is a reality that many unionized environments face.
TL;DR Unions aren't the BE ALL END ALL, workers still get treated poorly even in unionized environments, the great deal of push FOR this game development union is by the people that want to form the administration. Also crunch is BAD.
This union push is from the people that will form the administration, gamers that have 0 skin in the game are just pawns of those folks.
Crunch is not good, but here's a possible scenario, a company decides to have unionized employees, but they can't crunch them, so they hire scabs(non-union workers) and the make those scabs do the crunch while the unionized people have their hours cut, but not too deeply to anger the union. Going deeper into the scenario, unionized workers get angry, go on strike, make LESS money, use their strike fund(which is there for this sole purpose) company SAVES money and gets the work done while saving the money by not paying their unionized workers. In this case, the union pretends to care and makes empty gestures in the media, while still getting their fees and telling everyone how amazing they are.
Also crunch would probably be a grievable offence, nothing more, anyone that's worked in a unionized environment truly knows what a joke the grieving system is.
This isn't some kind of stuff I just made up, this is a reality that many unionized environments face.
TL;DR Unions aren't the BE ALL END ALL, workers still get treated poorly even in unionized environments, the great deal of push FOR this game development union is by the people that want to form the administration. Also crunch is BAD.
GenericUser
Member
I don't want people to risk their health just by having a job. Whether unionized or not, I just want people to stay physically and emotionally healthy. And I got to be honest, working 60, 70, 80 or even more hours per week in such an exhausting job like game dev ... I personally don't think that this can be healthy.
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Mihos
Gold Member
I can't speak for others, but for us that reality is a little over 50% of our output comes from only about 10% of the team. Mostly, you are trying to keep those few high performing, key people focused on the big issues and looking for as many tasks to peel away from them to assign to the other 90% (or to outsource partners in some cases). So much of the stress and heavy lifting may only be on only 2 or 3 people on a team 20 - 30.
Also, we would find that when an issue arises, there may be an entire team 'waiting' on another team (or single person in many cases), to fix something before they can progress, which puts even more pressure on few individuals over the rest.
When we start getting into unionization talk, lets be honest, it's not those 10% of key people we are talking about. They are usually already well compensated, or at least have the most to gain from the project being successful. The trick is to protect and the make the other 90% feel appreciated without de-incentivizing your top performers.
This all may be way to anecdotal to apply to the larger discussion here, but that has been my general experience.
Kenpachii
Member
Crunch is dumbest shit ever.
1) Hire more people if you want to make a massive game in a short time
2) Make a smaller game
3) Delay the game or release in episodes with DLC expansions.
The end.
Crunch is just mental gymnastics for exploiting workers health for money gain.
1) Hire more people if you want to make a massive game in a short time
2) Make a smaller game
3) Delay the game or release in episodes with DLC expansions.
The end.
Crunch is just mental gymnastics for exploiting workers health for money gain.
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Mihos
Gold Member
Writing software is not the same as moving furnature. "More people" is pretty much never the solution, unless you think having 100 people writing the same book somehow makes things go faster or makes a more coherent story.
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ipukespiders
Member
1. There becomes a point where adding more people actually slows down production.
2. The customer often wants a bigger game.
3. You can only delay a game so long until relevance and technology passes it by.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Ah, the international sport of "look at me! The solution is so easy!"
Sure man. Keep telling yourself that you know better when you don't know squat.
Blood Borne
Member
Gamers be like, we want high budget production AAA games, no bugs, open world, high graphics, quality sound, 30+ hrs to finish the game, chunky DLC, 4K, 60fps, released in a timely manner (preferably every 2 years). BUT WITHOUT CRUNCH.
All I can say is LOL.
All I can say is LOL.
Allnamestakenlol
Member
I'll be honest, I'm a selfish bastard. If crunch is necessary for me to get games like Cyberpunk in my hands ASAP, then so be it.
This basically. We aren't talking about some new medical technology that will save lives or something. We're taking about games. We don't need crunch time to make a tree's foliage pop a little more than it did 3 years ago. The graphics are good enough and these more powerful consoles should be making getting to that same level easier.
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TheShadowLord
Member
That can go either way really depending you are talking about. Like look at that dlc for the new Pokemon game. Plus I would even add no price increase to the game's MSRP(which is almost always $60 for an AAA game.). Like you are going to see a lot of angry gamers that they would have to pay $80 for an AAA game.
Paltheos
Member
I would imagine this working only in retail and basic service jobs, anything where the time to teach tasks is low and the tasks themselves are simple enough that the time spent educating to proficiency can be justified. Doing the same thing in a professional environment seems like inviting disaster.
John Carmack had a very interesting interview with Joe Rogan, where he works longer hours than that required, because he loves his job, but only up to the point where he knows he's productivity starts dropping than he calls it quits. It's out of his choice, but he does not expect everyone else to do do the same. One guy he worked with who just work he's hours also made great contributions and was a valuable team member.
People are different, their daily lives and how they they spend their time is different. Different things make different people happy and that's the most important thing,keeping the people around you happy.
If you going to start forcing crunch and willfully take away sometimes 2-4 hours they could of spend with a loved one depriving them of their happiness, it'll just lead to depression, a lock of will to work and you'll just have a drained person delivering less than they would of if you just allowed them to contribute their due share to the best of their abilities.
To the person who would sacrifice their 1 hour of video game time to get an extra sense of accomplishments or kick out of their work, let them.
To the other person who wants to work his 8 hours to the best of his ability and spend every minute he can after that with his family he barely gets to see, allow them to.
People are different, their daily lives and how they they spend their time is different. Different things make different people happy and that's the most important thing,keeping the people around you happy.
If you going to start forcing crunch and willfully take away sometimes 2-4 hours they could of spend with a loved one depriving them of their happiness, it'll just lead to depression, a lock of will to work and you'll just have a drained person delivering less than they would of if you just allowed them to contribute their due share to the best of their abilities.
To the person who would sacrifice their 1 hour of video game time to get an extra sense of accomplishments or kick out of their work, let them.
To the other person who wants to work his 8 hours to the best of his ability and spend every minute he can after that with his family he barely gets to see, allow them to.
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
That's the issue with this kind of "movement." People are not allowed to be different. Not conforming with the "cause" is evil.
Elektro Demon
Banned
So let me rephrase it then.
How about hiring more professional people?