demigod
Member
MS will show Tera Flops, if they don't that means they will have less than the competition.
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MS will show Tera Flops, if they don't that means they will have less than the competition.
Reindeer
Member
The tech evolves as well and the AI powering procedural generation will likely evolve to accommodate high level of detail and complexity future games will demand. The tech moves along with demand so I doubt they'll be much problem with this.
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Exactly instead of sparse hi rez worlds could have insane amounts of lush landscape and NPCs etx. We should of aimed for that before bumping up resolution.
The buzzwords catch the public though... 4k...8k... that's their model for improvement. Whereas true gamers want better worlds, better physics and destruction, and fps
chemical boy
Member
Lampiao
Member
This is law of marketing. If you have the numbers above your competitors, splurge on the 4 winds, if you are below, hide and change the focus. Phill has already started at TGA, it was one of the first things he mentioned "setting the new bar".
If they go this route then that tells me they aren't anywhere near 12tf. That kind of performance in a console isn't something you hide.
It will also line up with what Jason Schreier said about not knowing which is more powerful and knowing the specs of them for awhile. If ever.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
If I'm not wrong SSGs GPUs from AMD already do something like that.
"The extended framebuffer uses NAND Flash (we explain this here) storage. It's effectively an SSD bolted onto a GPU, and allows production users to locally store large files that are being actively crunched by the GPU. Whenever the GPU needs a large texture, big data, or composite objects, it'll talk to the CPU (via PCIe bus), which then talks to the system storage device or memory, depending on if that data happens to already be loaded in volatile memory. The SSG bypasses this process by storing files for entire projects locally. Those files remain resident until cleared by the application or user, and only need to be migrated to the SSG once (unless cleared regularly) when working on a project. In this way, it acts as proper solid-state storage; this is not your standard volatile VRAM."
How the Radeon Pro SSG Works - The Basics
Whenever the GPU needs a large texture, big data, or composite objects, it'll talk to the CPU (via PCIe bus), which then talks to the system storage device or memory, depending on if that data happens to already be loaded in volatile memory. -www.gamersnexus.net
The purpose of SSGs is other, it is not run gaming, but I think Sony is using this tech in PS5, otherwise, 4.5 GBps rate can become a problem to its CPU.
Yeah, lots of indications Sony and MS are using their SSDs similar to AMD's SSG cards. But I'm guessing the way the usual process is "bypassed" is that the GPU has a NAND memory controller built into it directly, that would be the way it probably frees up having the CPU go fetch the data. The GPU probably has a dedicated MPU or MCU built in on the controller end designed to fetch texture data and files (basically an auto-filter for only those files); some memory mapping of the NAND is set by the CPU so that the GPU can know where to look in retrieving that data quickly and helping with random access of texture data.
This alone is pretty big and a pretty different implementation of SSDs than what is common with current systems and PCs. People thinking it's only going to be used for load times aren't seeing the full picture. And I figure that the CPU will also have a memory controller connecting to this NAND as well, for data access that is more on the logic side. So both the CPU and GPU can access their needed data in tandem instead of the GPU needing the CPU to fetch it from SSD and then drop it in RAM so the GPU can then work with the data.
Very cool times ahead for PS5 and XSX on that front.
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ethomaz
Banned
Again the same questions...
He had multiple sources saying numbers around 11-12TFs with less than 10% diff.
But some weeks ago 1 source said both are around 9-10TFs.
He did not put too much faith in that one source because others sources keep with the previous numbers.
He is just saying he can't be sure which info is the the true one.
He is being honest and sharing what he got with us even when sources have different info.
I'm glad to that.
But people keep questioning the same questions quoting two posts with different context.
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splattered
Member
I think he's saying he knows the target specs but there could always be last minute clock changes that could give the machines around 10% wiggle room?
So what he knows is like 90% of the picture with room for final adjustment which he isn't privy to.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
1 last time.
I am getting 2 different numbers from people and honestly don't know which to believe.
Am I leaning one way that aligns with every single trusted leak/insider? Sure am.
Do I have faith in one my buddy that says different from everyone else? I believe he believes that.
Am I am 100% a number to put my name next to here on forums where every single thing people say is destroyed if it doesnt align with their beliefs? Not a chance.
XinTniX
Neo Member
Both can be true, once Sony can have more than one candidate to go to the market or even a Third Party Dev Kit vs First Party...
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Tiago07
Member
Don't mind at all, you're a good and honestly person.
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Spreewaldgurke
Member
True. I think first party dev kits will be more powerful at this time. Sony don’t want leaks from 3rd party devs...
DJ12
Member
I'm more interested in who you know and can you get us all freebies lol
Kampfradler
Member
the only explanation i have for this is that one group is talking in actual RDNA flops and the other in GCN equivalents.
demigod
Member
Or one is Mike Ybarra and the other is Albert Penello.
ethomaz
Banned
At this time I can't believe any dev has GCN devkits yet.
What he is describing have two options:
1) One side is not sharing accurate data.
2) The sides have different versions of the devkit.
It can look weird but when a company create a version of a devkits they ship to some devs and after when they create another version they sometimes send these to others devs instead to replace the ones they shipped before.
It is like they have a batch of devkits that can't support all devs... so they keeping sending when new batches are made but some old batch are old versions of the APU and the new a newer version of the APU.
Of course when the final devkit version is finished then everybody will start to receive the final version of the APU.
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Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Reworking as in, clock speed bump?
Or you talking more fundamental than that? As this 'story' that has formed, that Sony were originally intending to release in 2019 with a slower chip, or they've switched to a new design because of Series X; a fundamental reworking, is fantasy stuff imo.
Kampfradler
Member
? isnt GCN the old architecture ?
Moridianae
Member
Sony hasn't really done much expected this time around. They very well *could* drop a State of Play out of the blue. Their aversion to E3 tells me maybe they won't do a venue this time.
Even so, an unexpected SoP with a quick turnaround(ex. announce tonight or tomorrow for Friday) would really send hype up.
Hell....watch 'em drop a teaser of something at the damned Fortnite theater while my son is playing, haha. You all laugh, but Star Wars did it. Who know.
Even so, an unexpected SoP with a quick turnaround(ex. announce tonight or tomorrow for Friday) would really send hype up.
Hell....watch 'em drop a teaser of something at the damned Fortnite theater while my son is playing, haha. You all laugh, but Star Wars did it. Who know.
ANIMAL1975
Member
ethomaz
Banned
Yes... devkits before June/July were probably Ryzen CPUs and GGN card like Vega.
After Sony did the fist tapeout of the Zen2 + RDNA APU then the devkits started to use it.
I just can't believe any dev actually (today) has PS5 devkits with a Vega card anymore.
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Lampiao
Member
Is it possible that Sony released different specifications to try to catch leakers more precisely?
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DaGwaphics
Member
Hardly, it would be much more indicative of the fact that they'd rather not stick numbers on the system that can be compared to PC. Even @ 12tf navi (which certainly isn't confirmed), these systems are getting murdered by the next wave of high-end, desktop GPUs. In that sense, selling the experience, convenience, price, ease-of-use, services, etc. is the better option.
We'll always know the numbers in the end, they simply can't hide the architecture and clocks once the product is in the wild. But, like Wii U, they still might not make official statements.
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chemical boy
Member
Thanks so much for the explanation.
01011001
Banned
and here's the thing... a well made checkerboarded image looks very convincing.
so I am all for that if it helps performance.
and checkerboarding looks way better than other reconstruction methods like the ones used by many UE4 games... those just look absolutely awful IMO, way too many very noticeable artifacts and it never looks convincingly like native resolution
Gamernyc78
Banned
He's been asked this a dozen times and you've been active here lol u know the answer is thyll be very close according to what he's heard or guessed. Besides the one 9tf outlier.
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xool
Member
I think it's like the Elder Scrolls or something - access to such privileged information has sent our insiders bat shit insane
xool
Member
That's some other people though - what was quoted simply doesn't parse.
demigod
Member
Is that why they showed One X's tflop numbers?
ethomaz
Banned
How not?
He doesn't know which side is true (9-10TFs or 11-12TFs).
In any case both are in the less than 10% range of diff.
There is no conflict in both his posts.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Guess I should make sure I am more crystal clear in my statements.
I don't know who to believe.
Better?
DaGwaphics
Member
They were trying to change the view that Xbone line was weak, this is a new generation. Both sides are likely trying to avoid the disappointment associated with current gen launches (all the tech sites called them weak sauce). Probably paying a bit more attention to Nintendo's approach also.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Yes but which do you believe mooooooore?
In all seriousness though, and I think I speak for everybody here that this is a more important question:
Are Xbox games gonna do that whole backward inverted case thing with the disk on the left again? Because fuck me that still confuses me.
jackets with pockets
Banned
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
To be fair I specifically remember Sony releasing a tech sheet with the complete info as well, including its TF number and all sorts. May be talking out of my arse, I can’t be arsed to google the thing. But I did see one for pro or ps4, on reveal.
demigod
Member
Doesn't matter if its a new gen or not. They're not competing with PC either.
Kampfradler
Member
or 3) They are simply talking about the same device but from different perspectives.
Maybe for the sake of simplicity they said its around 12 tf compared to the 4 of ps4 pro.
I mean that all started with Phil Spencer's "twice the performance of xbox one x"
Was he talking in RDNA flops or GCN ? We dont know.
Maybe both consoles are pretty close in flops, but rather at 10 and not 12 or 13 flops.
xool
Member
I'm sorry. You've been totally straight with us, and explained before. I know your position about the single source giving different info to the others.
When the guy said "I don't understand this" I was agreeing with just that - I re read the specific post several times and I could not understand what you meant, even with the background info.
It wasn't about trust/not trust - more about grammar/reading ..actually I still don't understand this "But the camps are a lot closer then 9 vs 12." , and this sentence is just crazy "I do know the specs on both systems its why i can put a 10% power difference in them." - it reads like one of those George Bush quotes :
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
You're still the president though
ethomaz
Banned
Means the diff. is way closer than 3TFs (12 - 9) no matter which source he uses.
He know both specs from the 9-10TFs source and 11-12TFs... both the difference between PS5 and Xbox are less than 10%.
That is what I understood.
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DaGwaphics
Member
So, what is your point exactly, that because they used strategy XYZ once, that must be their strategy always? I agree they aren't competing with PC directly, but comparisons will still be made.
demigod
Member
Nope.
You were wrong in your assumption that they won't talk about TF when they did for the One X. History has shown that if MS has the edge on anything, they will boast about it.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Actually I will answer that as honestly as I can.
Back a couple of weeks ago not sure on the timing without looking at my texts my buddy at SIE sent me a text saying he was hearing no Feb big reveal look for a State of Play that shows the box maybe a couple of game demos.
He also said we wont hear about TFs anytime soon as neither company wants to talk TFs because as he said one was 9.5 ish and the other 10.
I even brought it up here several days ago (again do not know exact date without looking at posts) about a State of Play instead of a full reveal how people would feel after I heard that from my buddy.
I had also posted the impact tremor gif a day or two before the official Sony skipping E3 as he told me that day I made that post we would be getting that very info.
So to answer your question a few weeks ago I was firmly in the 12 tf camp but the longer it goes we do not hear about a full reveal the more I am putting faith into my crazy little birdie friend as being right.
xool
Member
Actually I think I read "I don't know the specs on both systems .." , I had to go back an check - it doesn't say that
So it was me all along
Gamernyc78
Banned
Heisenberg no disrespect to you but you mention things ppl also have mentioned before but then leave a huge opening for things to go the other way. Mod of War says you have a source or sources but thy also seem flaky. Not giving assertive answers doesn't help us.
Just my view on the things you've said for months. Nothing personal
xool
Member
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