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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Vinex

Neo Member
That's not how you would compare 2 games graphics technology. That's the big flaw in a lot of arguments. There is no such thing as "looks better" when that is completely subjective. Also screenshots hide artifacts like low res textures and aliasing.

Let's just wait till the PS5 only games get the PC ports (i.e. Godfall will be the first one). Then you can compare with the same art. You'll see then that designing a game around a closed system won't matter with an open platform like PC because it will always be able to match or exceed the console counterpart.

What you don't understand is that your POWERFUL PC will not enhance the design decisions that the devs made already for the game & it won't raise the AI or the visual quality to a next gen game, accept the fact that you're spending thousands of dollars just to get some enhecments in resolution & some visuals, just like GTA5 from xbox360 to Xbox one & ps3 to PS4, nothing changed regarding the AI, the scope of the world or the graphics, it simply didn't turn into rdr2 just because you maxed out the settings on your rtx2080ti. You have to understand your PC is locked down to what decisions that the devs make to their games on consoles. First party games will always look better on console than most of the games on PC. Coming from a guy owns both platforms.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
The bolded is the literal definition of being better. Do you have pretzel for a brain? And yes, as someone who went from console to PC gaming, if you have the faculties to enjoy and make use of the perks, it absolutely makes a noticeable difference.



Couldn't be more wrong. DOOM in particular gets better and better gameplay wise at higher refreshrates. Just like most games. I went from slogging through DOOM on console to blazing through it on PC when I switched. I went from getting headaches due to the low refresh rate making me need to take breaks more often, to headache free sessions where I now have to remind myself to take breaks because it's just healthier for my eyes even though I don't feel like I need to.

And oh my Lord, don't get me started on textures and resolution and aliasing. Not to mention AF.

Wh...what am I even doing? Why am I even responding to someone who thinks higher settings isn't better... I can't...

If you want to argue that the difference isn't large enough for you to make you want to get a PC then that's a valid take. But man... You aren't helping yourself here.
He never said it wasn't better. I got out of his comment the bolded part of what you said
 

MoreJRPG

Suffers from extreme PDS
Still may get an announcement date...

This is a little frustrating. We're only a few months away from PS5's launch and Sony hasn't shown anything. Previous consoles were announced formally more than a year in advance

Sony's back to being the market leader. They destroyed Xbox this gen. We all saw what happened after the PS2. They feel and believe that no matter what they're going to sell 80 million PS5's(and for good reason) so they'll reveal it on their terms when it suits them. Not anyone else.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
Sony's back to being the market leader. They destroyed Xbox this gen. We all saw what happened after the PS2. They feel and believe that no matter what they're going to sell 80 million PS5's(and for good reason) so they'll reveal it on their terms when it suits them. Not anyone else.
But they revealed PS3 a year and a half in advance last time they were cocky
 

01011001

Banned
What you don't understand is that your POWERFUL PC will not enhance the design decisions that the devs made already for the game & it won't raise the AI or the visual quality to a next gen game, accept the fact that you're spending thousands of dollars just to get some enhecments in resolution & some visuals, just like GTA5 from xbox360 to Xbox one & ps3 to PS4, nothing changed regarding the AI, the scope of the world or the graphics, it simply didn't turn into rdr2 just because you maxed out the settings on your rtx2080ti. You have to understand your PC is locked down to what decisions that the devs make to their games on consoles. First party games will always look better on console than most of the games on PC. Coming from a guy owns both platforms.

GTA5 is a REAAAAALLY bad example you chose there...
because YES the next gen and PC ports added a lot that wasn't possible on 360 and PS3

first person mode and cockpit camera was not possible due to RAM limitations, but these are in the newer ports because of the better hardware.

AI and traffic density is way higher on current gen systems and higher still on PC.

they completely overhauled the graphics aswell... it's basically a full on remaster.

all in all the junp in features and fidelity from 360 to PC in the case of GTA5 is ridiculous.
 
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Vinex

Neo Member
GTA5 is a REAAAAALLY bad example you chose there...
because YES the next gen and PC ports added a lot that wasn't possible on 360 and PS3

first person mode and cockpit camera was not possible due to RAM limitations, but these are in the newer ports because of the better hardware.

AI and traffic density is way higher on current gen systems and higher still on PC.

they completely overhauled the graphics aswell... it's basically a full on remaster.

all in all the junp in features and fidelity from 360 to PC in the case of GTA5 is ridiculous.
Sir I'm giving an example of a game that was on last gen, remastered or enhanced to this gen & the changes it's not as big as what you're describing it, I'm just giving an example of an old gen, plus the AI is the same, you can't change the AI simply, you have to recode the entire AI system to get some enhecments here & there, for example tlou had an average enemy AI & it didn't get improved when they remastered the game on PS4 because it's not as easy as you're making it sound... A current gen game will not be a next gen game simply because you have rtx2080ti, that's my point.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
For me, it feels like Microsoft are confident in their position and can do this gen+ rasterization games at 8k30. And probably some indoor confined area ray-tracing at 4K30, along with a TF metric (eg 12TF RDNA) that is on par or better than Sony and will announce when Sony actually shows their hand.

With Sony, it feels more like we’re currently playing a ‘secret sauce' treasure hunt, where the hunt only ends when someone finds the secret sauce.

So here’s my wildly unrealistic guess about Sony’s secret sauce.

Sony have talked up the SSD from the start, because it is more than just hierarchical SSD storage for PS5, and is how they’ll secret sauce the paradigm shift to RT without massive brute force.

I’m guessing that AMD got the direct GPU to SSD solution (for Radeon Pro SSG) from Sony and the design came about through Mark Cerney looking at the Voxel GI technique that was removed from Unreal at the start of this gen.

If Mark concluded that such GI techniques really needed a large virtual VRAM scratchpad, of say 64GB – an on GPU SDD - he would then be expecting to use highly compressed, precalculated space partition structures (for the RT) to be dynamically loaded from disc/mechanical hdd into the ssd and then be rapidly expanded into virtual VRAM with a small GPU overhead. The modest 9TF metric would then be plenty for high quality RT GI in real-time. And by choosing an SSD on GPU solution Sony would have stole a release window of graphics cards to define RT image quality in mainstream gaming, until SSD on GPU became the norm in PCs or a cheap workaround was found.

Obviously developers would have been kept in the dark about the SSD on GPU by H/w virtualizing the solution, and presenting it as a hierarchical storage feature to enhance clipmap performance ala Spiderman demo.
 

Smoke6

Member
For me, it feels like Microsoft are confident in their position and can do this gen+ rasterization games at 8k30. And probably some indoor confined area ray-tracing at 4K30, along with a TF metric (eg 12TF RDNA) that is on par or better than Sony and will announce when Sony actually shows their hand.

With Sony, it feels more like we’re currently playing a ‘secret sauce' treasure hunt, where the hunt only ends when someone finds the secret sauce.

So here’s my wildly unrealistic guess about Sony’s secret sauce.

Sony have talked up the SSD from the start, because it is more than just hierarchical SSD storage for PS5, and is how they’ll secret sauce the paradigm shift to RT without massive brute force.

I’m guessing that AMD got the direct GPU to SSD solution (for Radeon Pro SSG) from Sony and the design came about through Mark Cerney looking at the Voxel GI technique that was removed from Unreal at the start of this gen.

If Mark concluded that such GI techniques really needed a large virtual VRAM scratchpad, of say 64GB – an on GPU SDD - he would then be expecting to use highly compressed, precalculated space partition structures (for the RT) to be dynamically loaded from disc/mechanical hdd into the ssd and then be rapidly expanded into virtual VRAM with a small GPU overhead. The modest 9TF metric would then be plenty for high quality RT GI in real-time. And by choosing an SSD on GPU solution Sony would have stole a release window of graphics cards to define RT image quality in mainstream gaming, until SSD on GPU became the norm in PCs or a cheap workaround was found.

Obviously developers would have been kept in the dark about the SSD on GPU by H/w virtualizing the solution, and presenting it as a hierarchical storage feature to enhance clipmap performance ala Spiderman demo.

I read all of this and all I got from it was “Damn I’m excited as fuck”!

I’ll be playing in my bathtub!
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
No he says ' focus on single spec'' matters and he is right. You can see the difference in exclusives games of vanilla PS4. You can have some of the top graphics of this gen in a 1.8TF console and crappy jaguar.


I hope so.

Exactly. It might not LITERALLY be 2x the performance but in a lot of cases I bet it still is. People way underestimate the level of resources, etc., that a PC has to devote to OS functions and others. A console is designed to PLAY GAMES and that's pretty much it. Look how MS paid in performance for their TV functionality that was added? Not HUGE, but it made a difference. It all adds up. I kind of view it like in the old days of computers where people could get amazing results using straight machine language or assembly language versus the other programming languages and environments, because they were getting straight 'to the metal.' You still have that situation with consoles. Now, there seems to be some pressure to turn the console more into a home entertainment machine and integrate other features. So if the differences between a console and a PC keep shrinking, I'd expect a lot of that performance benefit to start shrinking as well.
 

Author

Neo Member
Sony's back to being the market leader. They destroyed Xbox this gen. We all saw what happened after the PS2. They feel and believe that no matter what they're going to sell 80 million PS5's(and for good reason) so they'll reveal it on their terms when it suits them. Not anyone else.

"Arrogant Sony" is not a thing imo.

This is a company, they will follow the marketing plan they have and think is the most suited to best communicate about the console.
 

small_law

Member
So if the port on the back of the Series X is USB 3.0/3.1 gen 1/3.2 gen 1 (all the same thing), that means its speed caps out at 625 MB/s. If Microsoft is using NVME gen 3 storage internally, that means 3500 MB/s. I seriously doubt they would have support for gen 4 (PCIe 4.0) even though it's AMD is their a partner.

In other words, I don't think Microsoft is going to let people actually play Series X games from external storage. They may let you attach a drive and archive your games on an external HDD, but you'll have to move them to internal storage to play them. The USB connection is just too slow if it's USB 3.0/3.1 gen 1/3.2 gen 1. If Microsoft is telling developers that they can count on uniformly high read speeds for reduced load times, they aren't going to let you play brand new Series X games on an HDD you bought 6 years ago at Walmart.

The bright spot is Xbox One games or any games that function in the console's back compat mode would be okay to play from external storage. That's the speed they run at now.

All this goes for PS5 too. Internal storage is a huge deal with the new console generation. Being able to plug in external drives was a huge benefit this past console generation and people aren't going to want to let it go.
 

thelastword

Banned
Yeah, the Ryzen CPU is capable of this.
AMD%20Zen%20December%202016%20Update_Final%20For%20Distribution-page-018.jpg
Don't forget consoles will have AMD CPUS and GPUS, so they will have SmartShift technology as well.....Should give even more performance...

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/smartshift

AMD SmartShift technology allows the processor and the graphics to consume power from a shared power budget by dynamically shifting power depending on the task at hand. In the above gaming performance example, the power has been shifted from the processor to the graphics to enable improved gaming performance.


0024-scaled.jpg


0025-scaled.jpg
 

Captain Hero

The Spoiler Soldier
Just had my daily dose of dooms day news about the developments of the corona virus.
If it continues as it does atm and if dooms day predictions are accurate with estimated 180 million infected by end of february we can all say good bye to next gen for a while not that anyone will even think about it while we have more serious business to take care off.

Global markets for sure will be affected as it already started with china suspending shipments of phones to russia for at least 2 weeks.

Us bans flights entering from china except 7 cities and so on.

Chinese cities on lock down mean for sure no ones working and manufacturing is on halt.
I am no expert about whos manufacturing in wuhan but regardless we already see economic impacts and again if this gets worse who knows how this will play out.

Too much .. just calm the **** down dude
Everything is going to be alright , and it's not about gaming and no one will play ! .. it has nothing to do with the situation there ..
 
Sony's back to being the market leader. They destroyed Xbox this gen. We all saw what happened after the PS2. They feel and believe that no matter what they're going to sell 80 million PS5's(and for good reason) so they'll reveal it on their terms when it suits them. Not anyone else.

Winning or beating the competition isn't the same as the competition is dead, or that there's zero threat. As bad as Xbox is seen as doing this gen, it has still clearly done much better than the original Xbox's numbers by a decent margin. So in the grand scheme of things an xbox that gets things right on hardware, services and delivers the kinds of games people will want to play can just as easily be right there again competing more evenly with the playstation brand. And as far as Sony revealing things, we're all just thirsty, dying to know more about each console. Sony knows they can get away with not saying anything for an extended period until they are ready to reveal what they've got.
 

LED Guy?

Banned
it's optimised to run at 30fps.
if a developer would do another Crysis that no normal PC can get even remotely to a stable 60fps, you would see games on PC outclassing God of War by a landslide.
but games like that don't really release anymore... PC players would be furious if such a game would release these days, it would rain bad steam reviews from the skies. just imagine the outcry of PC players if a new game would come out and you can't get at least a completely locked 60fps with a RTX2080 even at 1440p and at low settings.
that was crysis back then. even a 8800GTX with a Core 2 Quad couldn't lock to 60 at low and sub HD.

Crysis back then was so far ahead of its time that it still looks really damn good for modern standards.
and Crysis 3 is still used as a GPU benchmark to this day because of the extreme settings it pushed.

games like that don't exist anymore as devlopers develop for console first and PC second. Which in turn conditioned PC players to expect that every game runs at above 60FPS with ease, and that it's just a matter of how high a framerate you want... because these games don't push the hardware at all anymore
Yeah I know if God of War was developed on an RTX 2080/Ryzen 7 3000/16 GB/SSD it would be an entirely different game and it would make the PS4 version look and play last-generation, I know that PC hardware only gets taken advantage of terms of boosting resolution and framerate mostly, and some other settings here and there, nothing special, nothing game-changing or different in terms of how a game plays or designed.

Which brings me to my next point, Crysis, and here's the problem with Crysis 1, I see people say that "consoles hold back gaming industry" and things like that, I would say that CONSUMERS are the ones who hold it back and would pay cheap to get hardware whether for PC parts or consoles, look at most PC players out there around the world, none of them have the highest end GPUs/CPUs/SSDs/RAM etc etc.... because that is how consumers pay for gaming, if you made a game from the ground up taking advantage of the highest end, the game would immediately fail because it will not have enough people buying the game because the game needs high-end hardware to run it properly so people will not buy it.

That is why Crytek has failed with Crysis 1 and their losses FORCED them to shift their vision and develop Crysis 2 (and 3) on consoles to get that money, to get more sales.

So that is why CONSUMERS are the ones that dictate which price/performance console manufacturers and game companies must cater to, I mean, look at PlayStation 5 & Xbox Series X's powerful specs now, many people are afraid or concerned that those console might be sold at $500 (which they will), all I'm saying is that the most important thing for game companies and console manufacturers is targeting how much consumers are willing to pay for such technology while at the same time create a generational jump.

Alright I have written everything that's on my mind LOL!!
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Winning or beating the competition isn't the same as the competition is dead, or that there's zero threat. As bad as Xbox is seen as doing this gen, it has still clearly done much better than the original Xbox's numbers by a decent margin. So in the grand scheme of things an xbox that gets things right on hardware, services and delivers the kinds of games people will want to play can just as easily be right there again competing more evenly with the playstation brand. And as far as Sony revealing things, we're all just thirsty, dying to know more about each console. Sony knows they can get away with not saying anything for an extended period until they are ready to reveal what they've got.
Yup.

Having top sales and market share is great. So is having a solid product. And the way SeX is shaping up, it'll be solid too.

It's like saying Sony TVs are shit because their marketshare in TVs have dropped for probably 20 years. Korean and Chinese brands took over. Even Vizio has a higher share than Sony in the US. Vizio only really got their footing around 10 years ago as a brand that became recognizable for the average consumer and already sells more TVs than Sony.
 
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Jtibh

Banned
Too much .. just calm the **** down dude
Everything is going to be alright , and it's not about gaming and no one will play ! .. it has nothing to do with the situation there ..
Yeah just no manufacturing your conso
Too much .. just calm the **** down dude
Everything is going to be alright , and it's not about gaming and no one will play ! .. it has nothing to do with the situation there ..
Manufacturing delay. Has nothing to do with gaming?
 
PS5 is going to double as a jet engine.
Ha. Look, I'm an Xbox guy but Sony arnt idiots. They have a ton of knowledge in appliance cooling, more so than MS really. The PS4 Pro dead set sounds louder than a vaccum cleaner, and it's a negative for the console, so I expect Sony to fix it with the PS5.
Microsoft did so with the One X, which is pretty quiet even with all the power it has and the small form factor.

But Sony does have a habit of not leveraging tech from their other divisions.
Just look at their phones for instance.
 

Aceofspades

Banned
Just had my daily dose of dooms day news about the developments of the corona virus.
If it continues as it does atm and if dooms day predictions are accurate with estimated 180 million infected by end of february we can all say good bye to next gen for a while not that anyone will even think about it while we have more serious business to take care off.

Global markets for sure will be affected as it already started with china suspending shipments of phones to russia for at least 2 weeks.

Us bans flights entering from china except 7 cities and so on.

Chinese cities on lock down mean for sure no ones working and manufacturing is on halt.
I am no expert about whos manufacturing in wuhan but regardless we already see economic impacts and again if this gets worse who knows how this will play out.

You must be younger than 18 years because Coronavirus is not the first time we humanity suffered similar outbreak. We had Sars early 2000s and other before that. It's gonna be alright kid 😀
 

V4skunk

Banned
What most peope tend to forget when comparing PC visuals/performance to the one of consoles is that a console almost equals twice the compute power of an equal PC setup. So assuming the new consoles run 12 TF setups then sure, you can achieve similar visuals on PC but you will most likely need a GTX 3000 series GPU then or a dual GPU setup. See some of Carmacks comments on the matter:


Not true since this gen. Dx12 and mantle brought pc close to console level in efficiency.
 

SNPlayen

Member
Around 10 more months until consoles release, if they aren’t delayed. Think about this thread for the last month and we only go through that another 10 times
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
So, let's assume that the most positive and 'negative' leaks for each console are true. Sony's PS5 is only 10-10.5 TF and Xbox Series X is 12 TF or slightly higher. Does anyone think that this extra power will NOT result in a louder box? How much does the noise actually matter? My PS4 Pro I can hear while I'm sitting on my couch, but really just the optical drive noise. Definitely not a distraction.

Now, what if something like the 10TF number is true but due to bandwidth or memory speed or whatever, there is actually greater performance? Would THAT cause the box to be more likely to be loud as opposed to having a faster/stronger GPU? We know the processors will be exactly the same, with maybe some small variation in clock speed due to their respective implementations.

Just curious mostly I guess if the GPU has more influence on the cooling needs and possible resulting noise, or if the busses, memory throughput, etc. have more influence on that. Thoughts?

Also, for anyone who actually knows...I've read that you need at least 8TF to be able to hit the 4k 60fps mark. Is that accurate? If so, is anything above that just additional ceiling or what is the mark needed to be able to upscale to 8k?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
So, let's assume that the most positive and 'negative' leaks for each console are true. Sony's PS5 is only 10-10.5 TF and Xbox Series X is 12 TF or slightly higher. Does anyone think that this extra power will NOT result in a louder box? How much does the noise actually matter? My PS4 Pro I can hear while I'm sitting on my couch, but really just the optical drive noise. Definitely not a distraction.

Now, what if something like the 10TF number is true but due to bandwidth or memory speed or whatever, there is actually greater performance? Would THAT cause the box to be more likely to be loud as opposed to having a faster/stronger GPU? We know the processors will be exactly the same, with maybe some small variation in clock speed due to their respective implementations.

Just curious mostly I guess if the GPU has more influence on the cooling needs and possible resulting noise, or if the busses, memory throughput, etc. have more influence on that. Thoughts?

Also, for anyone who actually knows...I've read that you need at least 8TF to be able to hit the 4k 60fps mark. Is that accurate? If so, is anything above that just additional ceiling or what is the mark needed to be able to upscale to 8k?
Comes down to design.

Xbox X is 6TF and is silent.

Oddly this gen, Xbox systems are quiet, but PS systems are louder.
 
So, let's assume that the most positive and 'negative' leaks for each console are true. Sony's PS5 is only 10-10.5 TF and Xbox Series X is 12 TF or slightly higher. Does anyone think that this extra power will NOT result in a louder box? How much does the noise actually matter? My PS4 Pro I can hear while I'm sitting on my couch, but really just the optical drive noise. Definitely not a distraction.

Now, what if something like the 10TF number is true but due to bandwidth or memory speed or whatever, there is actually greater performance? Would THAT cause the box to be more likely to be loud as opposed to having a faster/stronger GPU? We know the processors will be exactly the same, with maybe some small variation in clock speed due to their respective implementations.

Just curious mostly I guess if the GPU has more influence on the cooling needs and possible resulting noise, or if the busses, memory throughput, etc. have more influence on that. Thoughts?

Also, for anyone who actually knows...I've read that you need at least 8TF to be able to hit the 4k 60fps mark. Is that accurate? If so, is anything above that just additional ceiling or what is the mark needed to be able to upscale to 8k?
Have you played COD MW yet? My mates console nearly levitates the fan is running that hard. One X is more powerful and has faster CPU and GPU clocks, yet it is way quieter than the Pro is.
So I am pretty confident that MS will nail it again this time.
 
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