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[Gavin Stevens]

I don’t see why it’s bull crap. It’s quite clear PlayStation want the price edge, regardless of if they are more powerful or not.

The silly thing is, they could be 6tf under power compared to Xbox and £100 more and it would still beat them off the mark.

Both consoles will be on par with regard to power. And I really don’t even think price wise they will be that different. But I do see them both saying for example £499.99 and then at launch Sony are all suddenly with “surprise fuckers it’s actually £479.99” just to undercut in any way.

People are expecting this great sea of bullshit, massive differences like the current gen. I’m expecting Richard Leadbetter to essentially be CSI zooming on a single blade of grass.

Just go with what you like in that case.

 

[sonomamashine]

I don’t see why it’s bull crap. It’s quite clear PlayStation want the price edge, regardless of if they are more powerful or not.

The silly thing is, they could be 6tf under power compared to Xbox and £100 more and it would still beat them off the mark.

Please sir, stop posting.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Please sir, stop posting.

Why? Because it doesn’t fit your narrative? Unless you have stocks in Sony or MS, you want to hope, as a gamer, both consoles are on par.

I still think Sony have the edge, slightly, even though I’m an Xbox fan more so. And that’s just based on current rumour. But even then, I’ve said that people don’t even have final dev kits, and a lot can change.

 

[sonomamashine]

Why? Because it doesn’t fit your narrative? Unless you have stocks in Sony or MS, you want to hope, as a gamer, both consoles are on par.

I still think Sony have the edge, slightly, even though I’m an Xbox fan more so. And that’s just based on current rumour. But even then, I’ve said that people don’t even have final dev kits, and a lot can change.

The amount of people in here using this quote "Because it doesn’t fit your narrative" is ridiculous, try something else people.

The silly thing is, they could be 6tf under power compared to Xbox and £100 more and it would still beat them off the mark.

I just find this silly that's all, calm down.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

The amount of people in here using this quote "Because it doesn’t fit your narrative" is ridiculous, try something else people.

I just find this silly that's all, calm down.

Then you obviously haven’t lived through multiple console generations like I have.

At this point in time, and this is true, I’ve read people essentially saying they don’t care if the SX is half the price of the Ps5 and twice as powerful, they just won’t get it because they don’t like Xbox.

And that’s fine. It’s a bit of a shit attitude to take but it’s fine.

But don't underestimate the willpower of a diehard fanboy. It’s like asking an Arsenal supporter to start cheering on Man United for a game... It doesn’t work in their brains. They are so brainwashed to the idea that anything else cant be good, they simply won’t entertain it, regardless of merit.

So yeah, I stand by what I said. Sony could release a machine far less powerful and more money, and it would still sell more than the Xbox. Because the real world doesn’t give a shiny rats arse about what’s under the hood, they just give a shit about the logo on the box. It’s the same for any product, and always will be. Look at your phone, fancy changing makes? What about your trainers? Or car? Think about it. You go with what you like, and you very rarely change, because we are after all creatures of habit, and even when you’re older, playground street cred still enters your head. Otherwise we would all be wearing ASDA trainers and driving skodas.

 

[Mass Shift]

I tried to look up 3D audio chips or DACs but couldn't find anything. I'm interested to see what its all about, and wonder if it's an expensive addition. I mean, even 20 or 30 Dollars is expensive in console terms.

True, but I'm glad they won't be skimping on audio for the PS5. Sony's audio will be proprietary so maybe that will help them control the costs.

 

[Darklor01]

It really shouldn’t matter which manufacturer has what over the other. That’s an issue for them to deal with. Not us. Play where YOU want. spend your money on what YOU want. Enjoy it for YOUR reasons.

It shouldn’t matter what others think about why you prefer one over the other. What I enjoy doing here is catching new information tempered with knowing whether the source is official word or not. Speculating about when news may come.

I was pretty certain I would be buying a PS5 first if not just that console. I still am. I own both top end versions of current gen systems and enjoy them both and originally had launch versions. The more I read about the stable of games on each system, the more I’m willing to entertain buying either system at launch. It’s good to be open. What did posting clear bias towards one system and why it’s better over and over accomplish? To me, it’s like reading why PC is better than console in console related threads.

 

[bitbydeath]

The sign-up details have appeared on other regions pages now.

 

[Rightisright]

Interesting. It seem like Microsoft will do everything to win the power war this gen. But is it gonna be worth it? We will see.

I think they kinda have to. Sony don't need to.

 

[PocoJoe]

I tried to look up 3D audio chips or DACs but couldn't find anything. I'm interested to see what its all about, and wonder if it's an expensive addition. I mean, even 20 or 30 Dollars is expensive in console terms.

No. Im 99% sure it wont be anywhere near 20 - 30$, why would you even think about it being that expensive?

It is most likely part of the APU chip, just tiny part on the silicon. probably more like 2-3$ if even that. (costs addition to the manufacturing of the chip).

while it may sound fancy, it probably isnt anything super special hi-tech. Even phones at the moment can easily have good 3D audio (I have Sony xperia 1 + Sony 1000xm3 headset and it(Sony 3d audio demo) sounds epic). Even +10 years ago some shitty ass devices could run 3d audio demos from youtube quite well

 

[PaintTinJr]

I tried to look up 3D audio chips or DACs but couldn't find anything. I'm interested to see what its all about, and wonder if it's an expensive addition. I mean, even 20 or 30 Dollars is expensive in console terms.

Sony’s meaning of 3D audio could well be the ray-traced audio Mark Cerny has been talking about since the PS4. In that context an audio chip that lives on the APU would be secret sauce and is almost certainly offering up RTX core capabilities for hardware accelerating Bounding Volume Hierarchy data (BSP, Octree, etc). RTX cores are designed to reduce redundancy of ray/triangle intersection tests. The reason for 3D audio living on the APU is because these algorithms will be reliant on their storage bandwidth when created, updated or iterated over.

From my customer experience with Sony's proprietary audio in the last 10years they are all softare solutions and even their high res audio record player (that rips to hi-res) utilise a Texas Instruments chip (iirc) to feed the data to their scaler codec.

 

[sonomamashine]

Then you obviously haven’t lived through multiple console generations like I have.

... what ? you guessing now ?

At this point in time, and this is true, I’ve read people essentially saying they don’t care if the SX is half the price of the Ps5 and twice as powerful, they just won’t get it because they don’t like Xbox.

And that’s fine. It’s a bit of a shit attitude to take but it’s fine.

It's Fanboyism.

But don't underestimate the willpower of a diehard fanboy. It’s like asking an Arsenal supporter to start cheering on Man United for a game... It doesn’t work in their brains. They are so brainwashed to the idea that anything else can be good, they simply won’t entertain it, regardless of merit.

People on Gaf don't represent the rest of the world.

So yeah, I stand by what I said. Sony could release a machine far less powerful and more money, and it would still sell more than the Xbox. Because the real world doesn’t give a shiny rats arse about what’s under the hood, they just give a shit about the logo on the box. It’s the same for any product, and always will be.

Guess you missed Ps3 vs Xbox 360 era.

Look at your phone, fancy changing makes? What about your trainers? Or car? Think about it. You go with what you like, and you very rarely change, because we are after all creatures of habit, and even when you’re older, playground street cred still enters your head. Otherwise we would all be wearing ASDA trainers and driving skodas.

You go with what you can afford, people who drive skodas love (Mercedes, Bentley, Lambo, Rolls Roys, Bmw...) but can't afford it that's why they go with the other sub brands.
Anyway what i quoted you for is for this.

The silly thing is, they could be 6tf under power compared to Xbox and £100 more and it would still beat them off the mark.

wich i find ridicule, 6Tf difference between the two and you think that wont influence sells ...

 

[Gavin Stevens]

wich i find ridicule, 6Tf difference between the two and you think that wont influence sells ...

You first mention the world isn’t just forums, but then trip on this point.

Do you honestly think the vast majority of people buying a PlayStation care if its more or less powerful than the completion? Honestly? Look at the Pro vs the X, the X is vastly superior, but sells hardly anything. It’s not a full new console I hear you already saying.

Well look at the Switch, how it sold so well? Becauae you won’t find those games and game experiences anywhere else. The Switch essentially became the default second console. Everybody wants one in addition to.

Now, do you honestly think little Timmy is going to ask for an xbox at Christmas, because this years playstation isn’t as powerful...? He doesn’t give a shit what a terror flip is. He doesn’t care. He just knows that the playstation was great, and there’s a new one, I want that.

The world isn’t this little bubble on the internet. The real world, the 99% of people buying these consoles, has no clue what goes into them. They don’t give a shit about SSDs and 3d audio and how the controller might even have a better battery... all they care about is the name on the box, Because that’s where they played all those great games this gen.

So yeah, Sony could release a 6tf machine, £100 more. and yeah, it would still sell fucking gangbusters. Because people are by and large morons. Otherwise we wouldnt be on iPhone 11 with the same fuck nonsense battery that lasts one day, would we.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

He is an ign editor in japan if i m not mistaken. He said ms has significant power advantage and later here he said slight power advatage . I can see ms having slight power advatage but siginificant i dont see itherwise ms woulsnt keep sayin "our most powerful console"

Same thing happened on ERA with recent thread about how IGN Japan said XSX is more powerful. And thread was closed.

 

[hemo memo]

I don’t see why it’s bull crap. It’s quite clear PlayStation want the price edge, regardless of if they are more powerful or not.

The silly thing is, they could be 6tf under power compared to Xbox and £100 more and it would still beat them off the mark.

Both consoles will be on par with regard to power. And I really don’t even think price wise they will be that different. But I do see them both saying for example £499.99 and then at launch Sony are all suddenly with “surprise fuckers it’s actually £479.99” just to undercut in any way.

People are expecting this great sea of bullshit, massive differences like the current gen. I’m expecting Richard Leadbetter to essentially be CSI zooming on a single blade of grass.

Just go with what you like in that case.

Nintendo fans said the exact same thing about Wii U. No company is immune. They can still fuck this up badly.

 

[Fake]

based on no evidence at all

The best evidence is no evidence.

 

[sonomamashine]

You first mention the world isn’tjust forums, but then trip on this point.

... Here we go again

Do you honestly think the vast majority of people buying a PlayStation care of its more or less powerful than the completion? Honestly? Look at the Pro vs the X, the X is vastly superior, but sells hardly anything. It’s not a full new console I hear you already saying.

Playstaion Pro was released way before X and it's cheaper.

Well look at the Switch. Ahh has it sold so well? Becauae you won’t find those games and game experiences anywhere else. The Switch essentially became the Default second console. Everybody wants one in addition to.

Because timmy's parent's most likely know Mario and that's the game that will suit their little timmy.

Now, do you honestly think little timmy is going to ask for an xbox at Christmas, because this years playstation isn’t as powerful...? He doesn’t give a shit what a terror flip is. He doesn’t care. He just knows that the playstation was great, and there’s a new one, I want that.

Little timmy console purchase depends on many things, example : Price & friends, he's parents will most likely buy the cheaper one then if timmy has more friend on the other side he will buy the same as he's friends to play online.

The world isn’t this little bubble on the internet. The real world, the 99% of people buying these consoles, has no clue what goes into them. They don’t give a shit about SSDs and 3d audio and how the controller might even have a better battery... all they care about is the name on the box, Because that’s where they played all those great games this gen.

So yeah, Sony could release a 6tf machine, £100 more. and yeah, it would still sell fucking gangbusters. Because people are by and large morons. Otherwise we wouldnt be on iPhone 11 with the same fuck sense battery that lasts one day, would we.

They will care when it's 6 Tflops weaker (and the graphic difference will show) & 100£ more expensive than the 12 Tf beast & -100£ cheaper console which by the way gonna be the main publicity slogan, that's what most parents buy (the cheapest).
Anyway stop digging yourself in, you are already too deep into your nonsense.

 

[sinnergy]

As hardcore , power matters , for casuals not so much, we are a small percentage. But are the early adopters, as Xbox gamer I want MS to go all out !

Early adopters are not immune for a power difference... we want the Ferrari’s!

If you start on a positive vibes console manufacturer you might get more market share !

 

[Fake]

For casual softwares always the top priority, but for hardcore and probably devs the hardware still matters.

Even for those devs with not care about graphics the specs matters for putting their game at 60.

 

[Agnostic2020]

We are maximum a month and half (gdc ) away from a Solid spec leak

 

[Gavin Stevens]

They will care when it's 6 Tflops weaker (and the graphic difference will show) & 100£ more expensive than the 12 Tf beast & -100£ cheaper console which by the way gonna be the main publicity slogan, that's what most parents buy (the cheapest).
Anyway stop digging yourself in, you are already too deep into your nonsense.

As a parent... no. Kids will ask for what they want, and that’s usually what their friends want. You don’t go from market leader to instantly having nobody ask fora PlayStation just because you’re not as fast or more expensive. Like hell could kids could give a toss which console is best. They just care about looking good. And it doesn’t look good when you walk into the school playground and proudly confess your console of choice is different to everybody else’s.

I just need to remind you, that you’re talking to a die hard Xbox fanboy here, with the cash already put aside for BOTH systems. But I’m not thick. I know people who know the ins and outs of spec, ive worked with actual developers of actual games on actual hardware, and they are STILL die hard PS fans, even when the talk came out that the SX May have been more powerful.

Don’t just assume that because one product is better, or more value for money, that people will flock to it. I’m using the phone example again, my iPhone costs over a grand to buy, but does less than a similar android phone of £350. Why don’t I go get the android?

Because I want an iPhone.

Simple as that.

 

[DaMonsta]

Sorry for double posting.



I can't believe neither got banned.



This is a 1/2 truth. Xbox has a team dedicated to BC. Often times BC can help with load times. But unless somebody does something to improve it, BC on better console hardware doesn't do anything. There's a ton of just straight emulation too.

Working on any of these games in any form costs money and having the legal right.

Nah, even PS2 games looked slightly better on PS3. And improved load times is an important enhancement. Hell lots of the hype around the new gen is for improved load times.

 

[Ralf]

True lol you might be true . I feel ms will have slight advatage in tf but not 9 vs 12 . We both know if ms knew it was 9 vs 12 their marketing and pr would be different . Even 2 days ago phil said gpu jump doesnt matter much and is not as important , next gen is about fps and cpu. That doesnt sound like a great marketing plan when you have 3 tf more powerful gpu.

PR for Lockhart announcement.

 

[Zero909]

 

[Agnostic2020]

What does Navi 21 lite have to do with next gen consoles ? Just asking as I m not sure

 

[sonomamashine]

As a parent... no. Kids will ask for what they want, and that’s usually what their friends want. You don’t go from market leader to instantly having nobody ask fora PlayStation just because you’re not as fast or more expensive. Like hell could kids could give a toss which console is best. They just care about looking good. And it doesn’t look good when you walk into the school playground and proudly confess your console of choice is different to everybody else’s.

Usually what kids want is the most powerful or more fastest, and that's usually what their friends want too, part of looking good in kids kingdom is bragging about power & speed etc ... that's what makes them look good.

I just need to remind you, that you’re talking to a die hard Xbox fanboy here, with the cash already put aside for BOTH systems. But I’m not thick. I know people who know the ins and outs of spec, ive worked with actual developers of actual games on actual hardware, and they are STILL die hard PS fans, even when the talk came out that the SX May have been more powerful.

You are talking to someone who usually buy both, specially Playstation, but that doesn't mean i need to defend them just because, you have to be neutral, ain't nothing free, you pay for it.

Don’t just assume that because one product is better, or more value for money, that people will flock to it. Isong the phone example again, my iPhone costs over a grand tl buy, but does less than a similar and round based phone of £350. Why don’t I go get the android?

Because I want an iPhone.

Simple as that.

You buy Iphone because it's a luxury item, not as necessity item.

 

[Smoke6]

Damn another bread crumb just dropped or maybe I’m tired!

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[sonomamashine]

What does Navi 21 lite have to do with next gen consoles ? Just asking as I m not sure

Lite = APU.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Same thing happened on ERA with recent thread about how IGN Japan said XSX is more powerful. And thread was closed.

I know .That thread was about this very tweet .

 

[pawel86ck]

I remember when I bought my first PC. I was a casual gamer back then and I had no idea what 3D accelerator was, however my friends told me I should buy it, therefore I bought it . Casuals may not know what's inside their console of choice, but if PS5 would be much slower and 100$ more expensive I bet other people would tell them playstation is no longer a smart choice. Casuals arnt as stupid as some gamers assume and they still think (and listen to other people) before they buy something.

When PS3 launched people very quickly realized games on PS3 looked and run worse compared to much cheaper xbox. As a result of that sony lost many customers and more and more people started buying x360. If Sony would not react in time I doubt PS3 would outsell X360 in the end.

8TF PS4 500$ vs 12TF XSX 600$ - Probably more people would still buy PS5 (at least initially), but if PS5 would be 100$ expensive and even weaker (6TF) Xbox SX would finally outsell PS5.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Lite = APU.

Oh shit there is Navi 21 apu ? When did that happen ?arden isn’t Navi 21 lite in the code of amd ,is it ?

 

[photogaz]

What if the machines are going to be ready to show but the software is not?

People are dying for more information but are getting none. I really don't think we're getting a reveal soon. Probably have to wait till May.

Also, while MS has shown their box, they've given no further details yet. There's going to be no exclusives to show for XSX, they can announce the price really late. Though let's face it, with no exclusive content, how can anyone get excited?

Leaks are very limited. Maybe the machines are further behind than both companies wanted to be?

 

[sonomamashine]

Man, I cannot think of a single gamer that wanted a PS1 before launch over an established brand like Sega with their Saturn. Then after release the PSX simply had better games (in America) and all my friends eventually got one too (online didn’t matter then and nobody cared what their friends had, nobody cared if their friends had Sega, Nintendo or “other”).
I myself was still playing the Saturn Kiosk at Best Buy dreaming of owning one, one day. By the time that they had their first price drops and my family could afford it, the PSX was clearly the no brainer because of the game lineup.

People wanted Sega and Nintendo, not Sony PlayStation, Panasonic 3DO, Philips CD-i... they wanted Sega and Nintendo.

Brand recognition wasn’t so kind to Sega afterall.

When you have a more powerful system it means more capable, more beautiful games.

 

[Zero909]

What does Navi 21 lite have to do with next gen consoles ? Just asking as I m not sure

Navi 21 lite will have more than 40CU and People predicting this Card will be in XSX

 

[Rightisright]

No. Im 99% sure it wont be anywhere near 20 - 30$, why would you even think about it being that expensive?

It is most likely part of the APU chip, just tiny part on the silicon. probably more like 2-3$ if even that. (costs addition to the manufacturing of the chip).

while it may sound fancy, it probably isnt anything super special hi-tech. Even phones at the moment can easily have good 3D audio (I have Sony xperia 1 + Sony 1000xm3 headset and it(Sony 3d audio demo) sounds epic). Even +10 years ago some shitty ass devices could run 3d audio demos from youtube quite well

I'm just going from how the LG V range of phones has a better DAC than Samsung or Apple, and it does cost more for them to add it.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Navi 21 lite will have more than 40CU and People predicting this Card will be in XSX

Well we know xsx has more than 40 cu ? From GitHub it shows it has 54 cu . But the naming of Arden in amd coding isn’t referred to as Navi 21 lite. Is it ?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Man, I cannot think of a single gamer that wanted a PS1 before launch over an established brand like Sega with their Saturn. Then after release the PSX simply had better games (in America) and all my friends eventually got one too (online didn’t matter then and nobody cared what their friends had, nobody cared if their friends had Sega, Nintendo or “other”).
I myself was still playing the Saturn Kiosk at Best Buy dreaming of owning one, one day. By the time that they had their first price drops and my family could afford it, the PSX was clearly the no brainer because of the game lineup.

People wanted Sega and Nintendo, not Sony PlayStation, Panasonic 3DO, Philips CD-i... they wanted Sega and Nintendo.

Brand recognition wasn’t so kind to Sega afterall.
PlayStation had some great exclusive games, and a lot of them.

“Back in the day” sure. I also went with n64 over PlayStation as well.

But hell, I also went with a voodoo card in my pc. Doesn’t mean it was right, it was just the option at the time.

Point is, Playstation is massive now, much the same way back in the 80s “Nintendo” was what people said when they wanted to play video games, regardless of system it was on.

The whole point kf the discussion here is that people WILL buy a PlayStation, regardless of price or spec, Simply because of it’s name. There are limits to that, of course, but simply being weaker makes no difference as switch has shown, and £100 more is pennies.

 

[Rightisright]

Man, I cannot think of a single gamer that wanted a PS1 before launch over an established brand like Sega with their Saturn. Then after release the PSX simply had better games (in America) and all my friends eventually got one too (online didn’t matter then and nobody cared what their friends had, nobody cared if their friends had Sega, Nintendo or “other”).
I myself was still playing the Saturn Kiosk at Best Buy dreaming of owning one, one day. By the time that they had their first price drops and my family could afford it, the PSX was clearly the no brainer because of the game lineup.

People wanted Sega and Nintendo, not Sony PlayStation, Panasonic 3DO, Philips CD-i... they wanted Sega and Nintendo.

Brand recognition wasn’t so kind to Sega afterall.
PlayStation had some great exclusive games, and a lot of them.

Sony rolled out with ridge racer (where you could put in your own music CD to have as the sound track), Twisted Metal, Demolition Derby and Wipeout.
The games were what pushed them ahead of Sega.

 

[sonomamashine]

Oh shit there is Navi 21 apu ? When did that happen ?arden isn’t Navi 21 lite in the code of amd ,is it ?

Navi 10 Lite probably lockhart & Pc APU, Navi 21 Lite maybe xbox & playstation, one with GDDR6 the other HBM2E ??? who knows.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Navi 10 Lite probably lockhart & Pc APU, Navi 21 Lite maybe xbox & playstation, one with GDDR6 the other HBM2E ??? who knows.

We haven’t seen the code naming of amd for Arden ?

 

[Zero909]

Well we know xsx has more than 40 cu ? From GitHub it shows it has 54 cu . But the naming of Arden in amd coding isn’t referred to as Navi 21 lite. Is it ?

as far as i know there is no leak or rumour suggest XSX will be using Navi 21 lite, most of them are predicting XSX will be using Navi 21 lite because it's the entry point for next navis and the card will support raytracing

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Agnostic2020]

as far as i know there is no leak or rumour suggest XSX will be using Navi 21 lite, most of them are predicting XSX will be using Navi 21 lite because it's the entry point for next navis and the card will support raytracing

So these are the first leaks of existence for Navi 21 lite naming ?

 

[Zero909]

Navi 10 Lite probably lockhart & Pc APU, Navi 21 Lite maybe xbox & playstation, one with GDDR6 the other HBM2E ??? who knows.

Navi 10 Lite is not for lockhart, this card will make Lockhart in $350-$450 price range

 

[Fake]

Navi 10 Lite probably lockhart & Pc APU, Navi 21 Lite maybe xbox & playstation, one with GDDR6 the other HBM2E ??? who knows.

Is any Mac pc line use HBM2? Maybe the Mac PC gaming. Wish like to hope PS5 come with HBM for at least a little difference between seX.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I bought an N64 & a VooDoo card as well. The times have changed in some sense and in others are always going to be the same for everything in life. Brand recognition mattered and Saturn would have ultimately dominated if this were 100% the way things are.
People WILL buy PlayStation, it will have a sellout launch. The real question is how will people feel during Holiday 2021 *if* the Xbox is significantly more powerful? The average Joe these days are into tech and games, unlike when we grew up. The average joe is interested in Specs, even if they only really understand FPS in YouTube reviews. History repeats itself, but the audience is (slightly) more educated.

Certainly a tricky one, because I believe with the right message, solid games and a good launch, MS could get back to 360 numbers.

Sadly, I don’t see them doing that. Their messages haven’t been universally liked (new games on old systems, lockheart etc), they haven’t shown any games to wow us *yet* and we still all have no idea what the final spec will be. I believe they can get back, I don’t believe they will, sadly.

 

[Zero909]

So these are the first leaks of existence for Navi 21 lite naming ?

 

[Zero909]

 

[sonomamashine]

“Back in the day” sure. I also went with n64 over PlayStation as well.

But hell, I also went with a voodoo card in my pc. Doesn’t mean it was right, it was just the option at the time.

Point is, Playstation is massive now, much the same way back in the 80s “Nintendo” was what people said when they wanted to play video games, regardless of system it was on.

The whole point kf the discussion here is that people WILL buy a PlayStation, regardless of price or spec, Simply because of it’s name. There are limits to that, of course, but simply being weaker makes no difference as switch has shown, and £100 more is pennies.

If the world was running like that (buying because of name recognition) that would mean Sega never shutting down, Nintendo not detroned etc ...

So these are the first leaks of existence for Navi 21 lite naming ?

Ps5 erebus, xbox Arden if i recall (forgot & not following the thread like i used to)

Navi 10 Lite is not for lockhart, this card will make Lockhart in $350-$450 price range

What makes you say that ?

Is any Mac pc line use HBM2? Maybe the Mac PC gaming. Wish like to hope PS5 come with HBM for at least a little difference between seX.

Not yet for Mac's but anything can happen, is it something they could pull off as secret sauce to take the advantage ? hell yes, might be more expensive for the moment but price will go down with millions of units being ordered, also might get a deal with them to make HBM memory popular etc ... anything to take the edge over competition.
Or maybe not