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[pawel86ck]

PS5 at PAX East?

Just popped up in my feed; high chance we might get some PS5 news there, maybe even a bit more, since it seems Sony will be an exhibitor at the event.

Dates are Feb 27th - March 5th. Could lead into a bigger reveal at GDC.

pawel86ck Moore's Law was much more in effect back then; it was relatively easy to get massive gains on silicon with the processes of the time. But it started slowing down even before PS3 came out, that's why they needed multi-core processors for example.

Nowadays gains are coming from squeezing the life out of node shrinks and architectural improvements, but there's only so far both can go with classical computing models and silicon.

I can understabd why GPU progress is drastically slowing down, but I still rememeber PS3 era and therefore something like 4x looks really unipressive to me compared to 30x.

No matter if PS5 will be 8 or 14TF it will be still a small upgrade over PS4. IMO VFXVeteran was correct and people who expect a true next gen leap compared to PS4 will be really disappointed.

 

[sonomamashine]

Crystal ball :
xsx 10.8Tf the rest die space for Ray Tracing, there is no 12Tf.
Ps5 10.4Tf + RT.

 

[pawel86ck]

Never ever compare TF between different architectures. It doesn't work.

A new graphics card with 5 TF could be MUCH FASTER than an older graphics cards with 10 TF.

Also there are other things that are important besides TF. Other things that are holding consoles back. It is not just the TF or performance (which would be a much better word for it).

If I would take into account architecture gains and new technology that went into PS3 compared to PS2 (PS3 was using shaders) then PS3 would look even more impressive.... literally 100x faster compared to PS2.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

I have officially joined this camp as of about 10 minutes ago of the PS5 being 9.5ish.

Smart Man!!!! Im still @ 12 RDNA for Xbox. Only thing is what will be the prices. Cant wait , some on Xbox dont wanna wait, but they should. No reason to be BOLD and announce. Hell id cancel reveal if Sony waiting on Xbox . No rush, they been BOLD enough. Love you all , love it, ok better go now.

 

[johnjohn]

You are literally covering every possible scenario & not committing to anything.

Could be 9, or could be 11+

Could have more Wired articles, could have a state of play instead of live presentation meeting (way to go out on a limb when it is now past feb 6th)

Sorry, this is all smelling like bullshit. How would you possibly have sources to know if Sony is going to proceed with more Wired articles, their reveal plans (potential state of play), future PR on how to reveal details of their specs AND know both numbers for XSX & PS5?

A third party dev? They wouldn't be privy to Sony's reveal plan road map. Media Journalists? Even Jason from Kotaku doesn't know their plans as of yet? Someone higher up from Sony? How much more knowledge would they know about MS plans as opposed to sources well connected like Windows Central?

Fact is it's impossible to have sources privy to all of this. Even the fact that you're getting different tflop numbers should be throwing you off. Target specs are fixed. If your sources are giving you different numbers you should be immediately be questioning them. A third party dev in the UK vs in the USA are going to have the same target spec sheets for both systems. Unless you're getting 3rd, 4th or 5th hand information, which would mean it doesn't mean much to begin with.

He has multiple sources and one works at Sony...

 

[splattered]

Could be what dev kits they are wor

Even if the XSX is 12tflops and the PS5 is 9.2tflops, a third party developer isnt going to do anything extra for the XSX and it's 2tflops extra. They will use PS5 as the lead, and just put the exact same code on both. No extra FPS, no extra resolution. They will be identical. The only thing that could show a difference is if they have different RT solutions. But a stink average third party game will be identical otherwise.

Then it will come down to exclusives, and at this point Sony has the studios that can make the better graphics. What they did on a 1.8tflop console is amazing.

Not necessarily... depends on the developer.

XB1X Tekken 7 for example never received an enhancement patch but PS4 Pro did, while many other 3rd party games look and perform better on XB1X.

It's really going to come down to each developer and what they might want to do with the additional power/resources.

Only time will tell.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Surely people don't really think Microsoft isn't going to reveal specs, do they? Microsoft is absolutely going to reveal every single detail, right down to the memory bandwidth speed, Compute Unit count. They are quite proud of Series X from a pure power standpoint, hence the fastest, most powerful marketing they're going with. A potentially weaker Series S won't stop Microsoft from screaming from the rooftops about Series X's specs.

 

[sonomamashine]

I can understabd why GPU progress is drastically slowing down, but I still rememeber PS3 era and therefore something like 4x looks really unipressive to me compared to 30x.

No matter if PS5 will be 8 or 14TF it will be still a small upgrade over PS4. IMO VFXVeteran was correct and people who expect a true next gen leap compared to PS4 will be really disappointed.

.....RYZEN.....

 

[Neo Blaster]

Crystal ball :
xsx 10.8Tf the rest die space for Ray Tracing, there is no 12Tf.
Ps5 10.4Tf + RT.

 

[sonomamashine]

@ 1700 Mhz.

 

[pawel86ck]

.....RYZEN.....

We will get 60fps instead of 15fps .

Jokes aside I'm playing really old games lately (mass effect trilogy) and I'm still happy with PS3 / xbox 360 graphics fidelity, so I will be of course happy with PS5 / XSX .

 

[Insane Metal]

The dream is dead boys. Weak sauce consoles confirmed.

j/k

 

[SlimySnake]

Only my birdie is in the 9.5ish camp the other people I have talked to are all 11+ for both consoles.

I swear, If this birdie of yours turns out to be thuway, im reporting both of you to ICE.

 

[Rightisright]

The 9 vs 12 seems to be becoming the norm now.
Looks like it could well be true. It would be the biggest surprize in a long time for Sony to reveal a 50 odd CU GPU putting out 12 or so tflops at this point.

 

[sonomamashine]

We will get 60fps instead of 15fps .

Jokes aside I'm playing really old games lately (mass effect trilogy) and I'm still happy with PS3 / xbox 360 graphics fidelity, so I will be of course happy with PS5 / XSX .

Pre ryzen to simulate life into a three you make a whole branch move, now with ryzen leafs have their own physics of mouvement, this is what i call next gen, not at 4k of course

 

[Imtjnotu]

Well 1.8TF>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10TF is way bigger than 6.2 GFLOPS>192 GFLOPS
How much 186 GFLOPS fits inside of 8TF ?
No one was realistically expecting 1.8TF x30 right?

Algebra bro. This ain't it lol

 

[PaintTinJr]

The PS5's next-gen audio tech could transform your gaming experience – here's how

You'll probably need some decent speakers though

www.techradar.com

I feel a bit bad saying this, but it seems like a poorly thought out argument in the article as to what the 3D chip does. Suggesting it is Atmos or virtual Atmos makes no sense at all – they are no different to any existing multi channel audio format that doesn't need a 3D audio chip inside the APU. Just more channels in a different audio format.

When speaking to Wired, Cerny conceded that there was a "frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4".
"With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it.”

Mark’s quotes are surely him talking about the physics simulation of game world objects as audio sources and the game world interactions those sources have? I think on ps3 it was limited to GT5 and GT6, but Polyphony Digital used the Cell processor extra cores to simulate the actual engine and car parts moving – making sound waves – and then they simulated in real-time those sound wave interactions with the vehicle interior (premium cars only iirc) and road to produce a sound simulation of the real thing. So I’d go out on a limb and say Sony are going add that feature on chip so the feature can be used in games automatically with a simple API and no hardware performance cost to the developer - and then whether you output to stereo headphones, as stereo or virtual atmos, or to a multichannel AMP/speakers is just the DAC part of the process and independent of the game audio simulation.

 

[Ellery]

Surely people don't really think Microsoft isn't going to reveal specs, do they? Microsoft is absolutely going to reveal every single detail, right down to the memory bandwidth speed, Compute Unit count. They are quite proud of Series X from a pure power standpoint, hence the fastest, most powerful marketing they're going with. A potentially weaker Series S won't stop Microsoft from screaming from the rooftops about Series X's specs.

Lets hope they will also throw in some games in that shouting.

If there is one thing we learned from Apple, besides how to part fools from their money, is that people care way less about numbers and more about emotions.

 

[Self High Five]

He has multiple sources and one works at Sony...

You realize this product is expected to generate billions worth of revenue for years to come....and the amount of people who would have any idea on how PR will be formulated in the coming months (multipliers vs concrete numbers) and the unveiling/rollout (state of play, physical console reveal) is literally scaled down to a handful of executives at best....is anyone using critical thinking skills here?

These are specs leaked for Scarlett by Jeuxvideo in Feb 2019:

Projet Scarlet : les deux prochaines Xbox dévoilées à l'E3 2019

Aujourd'hui, jeuxvideo.com est en mesure de vous confirmer que le projet Scarlet, c'est-à-dire les consoles Xbox de 9ème génération, sera présenté à l'occasion de l'E3 2019. Et elles ne feront pas le voyage toutes seules. Les choses se précisent du côté de Xbox, qui prépare serei...

www.jeuxvideo.com

These are the specs leaked leaked for Scarlett by Windows Central in Dec 2019 (revealed to be Series X shortly after)

Inside the target specs of the next Xbox 'Project Scarlett,' 'Anaconda', and 'Lockhart'

Microsoft is gearing up to reveal Xbox "Scarlett" in full in the near future, and we've finally got some credible information on the target specs.

www.windowscentral.com

They're practically identical. Why? Because target specs should be consistent. Devs receive this way early in advance. Anyone who has 'multiple sources' worth a damn would immediately start to cast doubt if there are glaring inconsistencies. Devs with direct access should not be providing different 'birdies' of what to expect in the long term. Again, unless if it is 5th hand sources look like aka a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend....which means very little to begin with.

But yes, a random forum poster is privy to all this information (even more so than veteran gaming journalists), even though there are glaring inconsistencies that should be questioned

Carry on.....

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I can understabd why GPU progress is drastically slowing down, but I still rememeber PS3 era and therefore something like 4x looks really unipressive to me compared to 30x.

No matter if PS5 will be 8 or 14TF it will be still a small upgrade over PS4. IMO VFXVeteran was correct and people who expect a true next gen leap compared to PS4 will be really disappointed.

I guess we'll see. We've already had diminishing returns for a while, but if things like the Project: Mara trailer snippet (particularly the part showing off the indoors area) are anything to go by, clever use of ray-tracing could indeed be that wow factor. However, I doubt, say, GTA6, will use ray-tracing to that degree given how large in scope that game will be.

That said, the main thing holding back advances in game design these days isn't hardware power, but budgets and (IMO) mismanaged priorities with most AAA studios. PS5 and XSX will be near the pinnacle of the kind of power we'd need for almost any kind of game, but things have to change with the way the industry handles and manages budgets and dev cycles to open up the AAA space to push more interesting ideas to the forefront.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Could be what dev kits they are wor

Even if the XSX is 12tflops and the PS5 is 9.2tflops, a third party developer isnt going to do anything extra for the XSX and it's 2tflops extra. They will use PS5 as the lead, and just put the exact same code on both. No extra FPS, no extra resolution. They will be identical. The only thing that could show a difference is if they have different RT solutions. But a stink average third party game will be identical otherwise.

Then it will come down to exclusives, and at this point Sony has the studios that can make the better graphics. What they did on a 1.8tflop console is amazing.

If the game is gpu bound then you would see an fps increase... How much? I don't know

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

You realize this product is expected to generate billions worth of revenue for years to come....and the amount of people who would have any idea on how PR will be formulated in the coming months (multipliers vs concrete numbers) and the unveiling/rollout (state of play, physical console reveal) is literally scaled down to a handful of executives at best....is anyone using critical thinking skills here?

These are specs leaked for Scarlett by Jeuxvideo in Feb 2019:

Projet Scarlet : les deux prochaines Xbox dévoilées à l'E3 2019

Aujourd'hui, jeuxvideo.com est en mesure de vous confirmer que le projet Scarlet, c'est-à-dire les consoles Xbox de 9ème génération, sera présenté à l'occasion de l'E3 2019. Et elles ne feront pas le voyage toutes seules. Les choses se précisent du côté de Xbox, qui prépare serei...

www.jeuxvideo.com

These are the specs leaked leaked for Scarlett by Windows Central in Dec 2019 (revealed to be Series X shortly after)

Inside the target specs of the next Xbox 'Project Scarlett,' 'Anaconda', and 'Lockhart'

Microsoft is gearing up to reveal Xbox "Scarlett" in full in the near future, and we've finally got some credible information on the target specs.

www.windowscentral.com

They're practically identical. Why? Because target specs should be consistent. Devs receive this way early in advance. Anyone who has 'multiple sources' worth a damn would immediately start to cast doubt if there are glaring consistencies. Devs with direct access should not be providing different 'birdies' of what to expect in the long term. Again, unless if it is 5th hand sources look like aka a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend....which means very little to begin with.

But yes, a random forum poster is privy to all this information (even more so than veteran gaming journalists), even though there are glaring consistencies that should be questioned

Carry on.....

Dont know what to tell ya.

Just put me on ignore and move on.

 

[joe_zazen]

That said, the main thing holding back advances in game design these days isn't hardware power, but budgets and (IMO) mismanaged priorities with most AAA studios. PS5 and XSX will be near the pinnacle of the kind of power we'd need for almost any kind of game, but things have to change with the way the industry handles and manages budgets and dev cycles to open up the AAA space to push more interesting ideas to the forefront.

interesting ideas lose money, that is why every AAA game is either sports or nonstop killing.

I am hoping ms’ AA approach yields more variety than sony’s AAA approach does. I am guessing it might for a time, at least until they realise sony’s approach makes more money.

 

[JLB]

With this endless news, rumors and speculation I believe that this news is the most truthful statistically. I don't think it's a good idea to spread a virus with a game console as exclusive at launch, maybe I'm wrong but if the production chain of the new generation has already started to be ready for the 2020 Christmas holidays we are screwed, but it will never happen, will it ...?

just in case ill dip the box on a bucket with rat poison

 

[Zero909]

 

[30yearsofhurt]

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

How was the Saturn your worst console purchase ever? It is one of the best consoles imho and it’s selection of games was/is incredible.

Out of all the consoles I have ever owned it was my least played, not saying the hardware was bad, but it lacked games I wanted to play and being that it was difficult to program for I feel it didn't get used to it's full potential. Now the Dreamcast on the other hand, I loved that console, that was an amazing machine and it makes me sad that it had such a short life. Actually looking back, the Ouya is technically my worst purchase, lol!

 

[bitbydeath]

That looks pretty awesome.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I like it but why is there a ringer icon in the upper right?

Screams some sort of app.

 

[bitbydeath]

I like it but why is there a ringer icon in the upper right?

Screams some sort of app.

Notifications icon?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Meh. Nothing special really.

Only good thing i the big game pic has the edges having a faded look to it which looks different.

 

[Rightisright]

Looks good if real.

 

[Samanosuke Akechi]

Notifications icon?

Yep. Probably for friend messages, download and software updates, etc.

 

[Darklor01]

I like it but why is there a ringer icon in the upper right?

Screams some sort of app.

Could be a scheduled alert or something.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

interesting ideas lose money, that is why every AAA game is either sports or nonstop killing.

I am hoping ms’ AA approach yields more variety than sony’s AAA approach does. I am guessing it might for a time, at least until they realise sony’s approach makes more money.

Yeah, I hope MS continues AA game development, too. I liked Sony best when they had that variety and I feel PS3-era Sony was them at their best in having AAA and AA-focused games.

It's true that the AAA stuff is ultimately more profitable but companies the size of Sony and Microsoft shouldn't have issues with funding AA, more experimental 1st-party titles, either. The profits from the AAA titles would usually always cover any potential losses on the AA and more experimental titles. For Sony at least I understand they were also just suffering big losses on PS3 sales as a whole which influenced their decision, but with PS4 turning all of that around I'd hope they would be wiling to reconsider on that front.

Like with everything else next-gen related, we shall see.

Spoiler

Tomba 3 Blinx 3 UmJammer Lammy 2 Toshinden Remake Gunvalkryie 2 squad

Out of all the consoles I have ever owned it was my least played, not saying the hardware was bad, but it lacked games I wanted to play and being that it was difficult to program for I feel it didn't get used to it's full potential. Now the Dreamcast on the other hand, I loved that console, that was an amazing machine and it makes me sad that it had such a short life. Actually looking back, the Ouya is technically my worst purchase, lol!

I think anyone buying that new Atari VCS automatically qualify for a running in the Worst Console Purchases contests, at the #1 spot. Damn, that whole system's development has been a clusterfuck.

About Saturn, I think that's fair. Most of the really good games never left Japan anyway so unless you were into importing and knew Japanese, a lot of games just simply couldn't be played. Plus with 3rd party games Saturn almost always got ports way later down the line and usually handled by B-tier or C-tier teams which just compounded the architecture difficulty issues. At least with games like Resident Evil there was a decent amount of new content (same with SOTN, but the actual game had performance issues on Saturn).

Never had a Saturn as a kid but nowadays it's been really fun finding a lot of its games and thankfully stuff that was Japan-only for many years have gotten fan translations, opens up the library a lot. In hindsight it's a fantastic compliment to PS1 and N64, all three systems had specialization in a good deal of game types that makes them worth playing.

We're probably never gonna get that type of variety in system libraries ever again (I mean in terms of each main system having a big focus on different style of games you won't really find on the other consoles).

 

[LED Guy?]

Man I really hope ps5 is more than 9TF. That’s really disappointing. Double the pro is still not enough to make next gen graphics plus UHD resolutions (my opinion). I want more than current gen games at solid frame rates in UHD.

The PS5 has been over 12 TF if we’re going by the history of what verified insiders and real game journalists have been saying since E3 2019, I mean even Kleegamefan on January 7th before he banned himself the day after (IIRC) said with the latest dev kits from his developer friends that he is strongly connected to, he stated that XSX is a bit above 12 TF RDNA and PS5 is a bit above XSX as well, so that tells you these consoles are very powerful!

Why I said this? Well, because PS4 was leaked in January 2013 and VG Leaks stated that it is boasting “1.8 TF and 8 cores CPU” and all that, and they turn out to be true, nothing negated that leak from what Sony announced.

Now for this next-generation, Klee at the same time but in 2020 January, said that both consoles are in 12 TF territory, and PS5 a bit higher even, so I suspect that nothing will change from what Klee has been saying, maybe a bit of clock speeds differences and that’s it.

That’s my stance on all this.

 

[Nikana]

There's already an alerts tab in the current dash with the bell and all under the quick menu so it makes sense to be put on the forefront.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

There's already an alerts tab in the current dash with the bell and all under the quick menu so it makes sense to be put on the forefront.

Its sad I have been playing Xbox since the very first one and can't remember that bell, thank you for reminding me, getting old I guess.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Called what exactly ?

Lol exactly. Some people should take it easy on the drugs.

 

[MARTYWOLF]

The 9 vs 12 seems to be becoming the norm now.
Looks like it could well be true. It would be the biggest surprize in a long time for Sony to reveal a 50 odd CU GPU putting out 12 or so tflops at this point.

Im betting MS will reveal price after PS5 price reveal due to this. Imagine if the difference is that big and series x is say only 100 dollars more

 

[RookX22]

I think if it really is 12 vs 9 TF I might just take VFX advice and upgrade my pc and pray that PS Exclusives come out on PC. I love Sony exclusives but I also love smooth frame rates, that's why I bought a Pro Day one and play in performance mode at 1080p, if they are going to keep pushing these high resolutions but dont provide the power it will be really disappointing. For xbox I have a PC so I dont really worry about them I just hope their games will be good. Fingers crossed for Halo Infinite on pc being better than Reach.

 

[Mass Shift]

if it's quick and un-cluttered then fine. A dashboard doesn't need to be anything special. I was fond of the old blades too.

Simple and uncomplicated function.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

if it's quick and un-cluttered then fine. A dashboard doesn't need to be anything special. I was fond of the old blades too.

Simple and uncomplicated function.

Agreed.

I don't get how any modern console can have shitty laggy UI in this age. It's just a bunch of icons, images and options to choose and the hardware still can't keep up.

 

[DeeDogg_]

What if the reveal is exactly 7 years after the PS4 conference?
That is all.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Could be what dev kits they are wor

Even if the XSX is 12tflops and the PS5 is 9.2tflops, a third party developer isnt going to do anything extra for the XSX and it's 2tflops extra. They will use PS5 as the lead, and just put the exact same code on both. No extra FPS, no extra resolution. They will be identical. The only thing that could show a difference is if they have different RT solutions. But a stink average third party game will be identical otherwise.

Then it will come down to exclusives, and at this point Sony has the studios that can make the better graphics. What they did on a 1.8tflop console is amazing.

This completely flies in the face of what happened on ps4 and xbox one, or ps4 pro and xbox one x. If more power is there, developers are going to use it. Xbox One X has already proven this, and that's a mid-gen refresh.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Crystal ball :
xsx 10.8Tf the rest die space for Ray Tracing, there is no 12Tf.
Ps5 10.4Tf + RT.

Nope, 12TF + Ray Tracing. You don't count ray tracing into the basic power of the GPU to go so far as to say 2 times the power of xbox one x or over 8 times the power of xbox one. There is an entirely separate metric for ray tracing performance or power, and they may or may not use that.

 

[chemical boy]

At the moment there is no Horizon on PC, neither Sony has bought Remedy nor the PS5 has been presented on day 5. At the moment nothing is being fulfilled.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Here you go guys, shu dropped the bomb

People looking at 'P5S' like a funny typo, but the real trolling is the date: 02/20 is the reveal of PS4 in 2013.

 

[DeeDogg_]

Exactly 2 weeks away.

 

[bitbydeath]

People looking at 'P5S' like a funny typo, but the real trolling is the date: 02/20 is the reveal of PS4 in 2013.

Or the reveal date of the PS5 in 2020.