Mista
Banned
Suuuuureeeeeee. Lets just ignore all the people on PC that are subbed too
If Sony or Nintendo had this everyone will be sucking their dicks. Thats why I don’t waste my time discussing with people on GAF. What a joke
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If Gamepass is bad for the industry then why has nobody noticed besides GAF?
- Thread starter SuperLupeRap
- Start date
If Sony or Nintendo had this everyone will be sucking their dicks. Thats why I don’t waste my time discussing with people on GAF. What a joke
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Comparing it to Netflix is a poor argument. Different business models entirely/different mediums and they are not in the same position as a console maker/storefront owner.
Also the game industry is already in the filler territory. Boot up the store of Steam, PSN, Xbox, Switch. How many of those games coming out are you actually going to buy? Im gonna bet less than 10 percent.
If gamepass was literally the only thing M$ has then sure you could compare them but thats disingenuous.
Netflix is also only cash flow negative.
Mista
Banned
Its ethomaz, don’t waste your time. He’ll hop on Sony’s dick whenever they do anything but if anything other than Sony its automatically “flopped” in his clown world.
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SuperLupeRap
Banned
Days gone and Death Stranding flopped. But don't ask me to provide any figures.
Mista
Banned
Why? Because it isn’t a Sony thread? Jog on thenOP
THIS THREAD
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
If that had been 3 million sales its 1st weekend that's already $180,000,000 in revenue just like Spider-man and God of War didNo.
N-U-M-B-E-R-S is what we want.
3 million people played it Gamepass/Digital/Physical combined.m in the 1st week.
Gears 5 gets over 3 million players in its first weekend
Gears 5 is off to a strong start, securing 3 million players in its first weekend according to Microsoft, thanks to Xbox Games Pass.www.google.com
But you can confirm it flopped, so please, provide your figures!
I still think MS messed up by putting 1st party titles in GP day one
SuperLupeRap
Banned
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
The thread's argument is fallacious. "If something is bad, why has only a small group noticed it?" is a stupid opener, on its face.
But then there's the embarrassing fact that plenty of others have noticed, besides GAF:
www.engadget.com
So... what's the point of this thread?
But then there's the embarrassing fact that plenty of others have noticed, besides GAF:
Gamepass is great now, bad for long term - Xbox One
For Xbox One on the Xbox One, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamepass is great now, bad for long term".
gamefaqs.gamespot.com
Gamepass is a bad thing for the vg industry and this is why. - Xbox One
For Xbox One on the Xbox One, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamepass is a bad thing for the vg industry and this is why.".
gamefaqs.gamespot.com
The Netflix business model is bad news for indie games
The Netflix model doesn't work for video games. Neither does the Spotify plan, the HBO Go ecosystem or the Amazon Prime Video marketplace. Sure, digital distribution is king and subscription-based streaming services will absolutely become a dominant market force in gaming. But, when it comes to...
www.engadget.com
So... what's the point of this thread?
Mista
Banned
The thread's argument is fallacious. "If something is bad, why has only a small group noticed it?" is a stupid opener, on its face.
But then there's the embarrassing fact that plenty of others have noticed, besides GAF:
Gamepass is great now, bad for long term - Xbox One
For Xbox One on the Xbox One, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamepass is great now, bad for long term".gamefaqs.gamespot.com
Gamepass is a bad thing for the vg industry and this is why. - Xbox One
For Xbox One on the Xbox One, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamepass is a bad thing for the vg industry and this is why.".gamefaqs.gamespot.com
The Netflix business model is bad news for indie games
The Netflix model doesn't work for video games. Neither does the Spotify plan, the HBO Go ecosystem or the Amazon Prime Video marketplace. Sure, digital distribution is king and subscription-based streaming services will absolutely become a dominant market force in gaming. But, when it comes to...
So... what's the point of this thread?
As a consumer why would I give a single damn if a game sold well or not? I am getting the game, I’m playing it for a low cost and I’ll buy it if I enjoyed it. People talk about game sales like if they’re getting a percentage out of the profit
I get it, some people want a game to sell well so the studio don’t shut down and can actually work a new game. Totally understandable. But caring so much about sales to the point of obsession? That I’ll never understand
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Days Gone definitely didn't flop
But that's the goal that MS is aiming for, The Netflix of gaming lol they just don't want the same amount of debt
You are the reason why Christmas might be cancelled.
Neither one of those flopped, I would say they are some of the biggest sellers of 2019. I would not be surprised by 4m+ units for Days Gone, maybe much higher.
You need to take your Xbox shorts off.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Right but in conjunction with all of their other services. Such as Windows, XBLG, Office, One Drive, X-Cloud etc
Netlfix is just Netflix.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
The problem is loads get shutdown across the board. I tried to download Driveclub VR the other day and it’s no longer available.only just got PSVR so a bit dissapointed I can’t get that one
SuperLupeRap
Banned
Mista
Banned
I saw what you did there. Nobody is providing sales figures so you’re doing the same now. Thats fairYes Days Gone flopped because I said so
SuperLupeRap
Banned
Yes they flopped hard. Major bombs. But especially don't ask me for any figures. They flopped end of story.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The thread's argument is fallacious. "If something is bad, why has only a small group noticed it?" is a stupid opener, on its face.
But then there's the embarrassing fact that plenty of others have noticed, besides GAF:
Gamepass is great now, bad for long term - Xbox One
For Xbox One on the Xbox One, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamepass is great now, bad for long term".gamefaqs.gamespot.com
Gamepass is a bad thing for the vg industry and this is why. - Xbox One
For Xbox One on the Xbox One, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Gamepass is a bad thing for the vg industry and this is why.".gamefaqs.gamespot.com
The Netflix business model is bad news for indie games
The Netflix model doesn't work for video games. Neither does the Spotify plan, the HBO Go ecosystem or the Amazon Prime Video marketplace. Sure, digital distribution is king and subscription-based streaming services will absolutely become a dominant market force in gaming. But, when it comes to...
So... what's the point of this thread?
This is the perfect example of a point I was making. This guy is already thinking about not buying games anymore and instead waiting to see if they get dropped in Gamepass
Initial sales are important for these larger game studios to thrive
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Let's see Gamepass go through 2+ years on a console,
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
This may be how you feel about it, but what does that have to do with the topic?
Whether you choose to care doesn't make a business model "good" or "bad". Those two terms are pretty vague and subjective anyway. There are plenty of arguments for and against subscription models in general, Game Pass just happens to be one out of many. The concerns over quality aren't unique to Game Pass, either, these concerns are pretty widespread across most other subscription/streaming services.
No one is claiming that you should have to care about game sales. However, since we can observe what has happened in other subscription-based markets, we can at least draw similar conclusions and raise similar concerns. Again, this is not unique to Game Pass but is a general problem with subscription services.
People getting defensive about Game Pass are like HD-DVD defenders getting cagey about format wars and resorting to memes about betamax.
Game Pass is literally nothing more than a business model. Who cares?
To turn your own question against you: as a videogame enthusiast why would I give a single damn if you got your game from a subscription? You're not getting a commission for advertising that to me. You talk about Game Pass like you're gonna get a kickback for getting 10 other friends to join the pyramid scheme.
Again, I don't understand what this has to do with the topic, which isn't really that well formed of an argument anyway.
In what was is Game Pass "bad"? In what way is Game Pass "good"? That's what people seem to be arguing over in this thread, so it's obviously a valid topic with a lot of disparate opinions and perspectives. However, that's not even the premise of the thread.
I'm not even really arguing that it is good or bad.
The entire premise of the thread is a bad argument.
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Elektro Demon
Banned
So far this benefits the consumers. I like that. As for devs, well, I dunno what to say. I'm a consumer so this benefits me, I can't really feel sorry for the devs while I'm getting stuff cheaply.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yeah, I was agreeing with your post
Golgo 13
The Man With The Golden Dong
As long as top-tier developers don’t put their content on a similar service, we should be fine. Microsoft can go down the rabbit hole of giving away games from their studios on day 1 for “free” with heavy monetization (because most of the time those games aren’t that great anyway), as long as another model exists where games are made with passion and talent and you WANT TO PAY $60 for them at launch because they’re just that fucking good; the industry will be okay.
And don’t get me wrong, I love GamePass and the money it saves me, but since it launched there hasn’t been a single Microsoft first-party game I’ve been compelled to buy. This seems problematic to me since I’ve probably spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars in that time on Sony exclusive games.
During that time I’ve probably spent.. $20 on GamePass?
And don’t get me wrong, I love GamePass and the money it saves me, but since it launched there hasn’t been a single Microsoft first-party game I’ve been compelled to buy. This seems problematic to me since I’ve probably spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars in that time on Sony exclusive games.
During that time I’ve probably spent.. $20 on GamePass?
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I can confirm one(1) sale of Days Gone.
Yup. Small revenue stream, for older games, dev/pubs can maybe realize a small amount of money... nothing that's going to impact anything either way i.e. EA Access.
EA Access is probably the biggest one out there and its 3m users at $30-50 a year, barely a footnote in their financials. PS now is probably the 2nd, with 700k users at say $59.99+ a year, again, not even really a footnote in the financials.
Spider-Man by itself will generate more revenue in a hour than all these services combined in their entire existence.
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Flintty
Member
I’m a big fan of gamepass and use if for the X and PC. They’re clearly doing something right else it would be dead by now.
Think forward to the launch of Series X - having instant access to so many games is going to be a big draw for the casuals (ofc they’ll bundle a month or two with it). It’s all about bums on seats.
As long as smaller devs are fairly reimbursed then it’s all good. Fuck the majority of AAA devs - most of them are scum and can eat the loss. And a dick.
Think forward to the launch of Series X - having instant access to so many games is going to be a big draw for the casuals (ofc they’ll bundle a month or two with it). It’s all about bums on seats.
As long as smaller devs are fairly reimbursed then it’s all good. Fuck the majority of AAA devs - most of them are scum and can eat the loss. And a dick.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Its approaching 3.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
The worrying thing is how this model will even start to effect how games are made and how much content is in them (this has happened already with 1 game afaik)
Why develop an expansive, full title when you're only making peanuts, instead let's develop cheap titles lacking in much content or depth for the gamepass casual gamer popcorn entertainment crowd.
Why develop an expansive, full title when you're only making peanuts, instead let's develop cheap titles lacking in much content or depth for the gamepass casual gamer popcorn entertainment crowd.
Old games are cheap, after 6 months most games are not worth much. That is why they have to be funded with huge initial sales, I don't see that changing.
All you have right now is Uncle Satya throwing money to Lil Phil to act like they have a real business. That doesn't mean I don't think rental services don't have their place.
EA Access is probably the most successful and you can't even fund one AAA game with the revenue it generates.
Mista
Banned
I agree with you 100% but there are people here that turned it into sales figures and what flopped and not flopped if you missed the comments. My reply to you wasn’t actually saying that you are saying all that, just about whats going on in here
Also who asked you to give a damn if I got a game from a subscription? I’m sure I didn’t ask you to care. Was just saying how gamepass isn’t bad and also if Sony put some effort in PSNow it’ll be great too
We’re getting robbed in todays industry so whats exactly bad about gamepass or whatever subscription based in the long term?
I mostly own my games and gamepass to me is a great service that offers a great library for a great price too. If I’m hesitant about a game that I don’t wanna drop full amount on? Gamepass is great for all that
Sorry if my first reply to you sounded like I was meaning you in what I said. My apologies brother
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
The argument here is complicated just as the Game Pass model is.
if he REALLY wants a product he will buy it day 1. That is not Game Pass' fault. Thats on Square for not making the product enticing enough.
Doom Eternal will very likely be on Game Pass at some point due to the history of Bethesda on Game Pass along with the fact that Doom 2016 is on it. But you better believe that I want that game ASAP so I will not being waiting to see if maybe it hits Game Pass. If the product is strong enough and the consumer wants it they will purchase it.
The other part is that a game going on Game Pass isn't free. Developers are being paid but we don't know to what degree. Is it by interaction, is it flat rate? The answer is probably it varies from deal to deal. Higher profile games like WItcher and Tomb Raider are likely going to be on a interaction basis but its impossible to say without seeing how the deal was inked.
Then you have the exposure element.
Theres always the chance that playing something on Game Pass will expose you to a franchise or IP that will get you to buy a sequel day 1. Think about it when you let a buddy borrow a game and then they get super into it and then they end up buying the sequel with you on Day 1. Thats another sale they didnt have. The same could be said for Game Pass. Maybe someone never played Doom 2016 because they missed the window, life got it the way, didn't think it looked interesting etc. But then they played it on Game Pass and now are lining up for Eternal Day 1. Thats another sale PLUS whatever was made with the Game Pass deal.
There are many different ways a dev can make money on Game Pass just like with any subscription model its not nearly as cut as dry as it used to be.
Ballthyrm
Member
- Music -> cheap to make , cheap to distribute , industry had to move to streaming because the only way they were going to make money (again) was through convenience.
- TV -> can be cheap to make or expensive , money shifted from primarily advertisement to subscription, prestige TV shows is used as a lever to get new subscribers but most of the content is filler. That's because good TV is too expensive to produce for the whole catalog, most of catalog is therefore the left overs and monetization for the end of life of regular movies.
- Movies -> super expensive per minute of video content therefore only sequels and big Franchises are safe bets. We get a good Pareto distribution and we get bigger and bigger movie as it's the only way to make money nowadays. Licensing and merchandising is were the real money is made.
- Games -> more expensive than TV or a more expensive than movies. It has both the problem of TV at the lower end and the problem of movies at the high end. It takes a lore more time to develop and the risk is a lot higher as there is no good way of previewing a game (like a storyboard or a sample track) The whole cost is upfront for the dev.
For AAA games to survive a streaming service, it will probably adopt what TV is doing. A couple of really expensive AAA to bring new clients in and a lot of filler content so they don't feel fleeced.
The big issue really is that video games streaming provider will need a lot more subscribers to break even than Netflix or HBO will.
Games being a lot more risky and expensive than TV i still see subscription service starting as Netflix did. Letting the content provider taking the risk and then providing a second stream of revenue in the second life of the product. That's what we are already seeing with Playstation now and XBOX live.
Microsoft next gen strategy which is giving away their first party content on their streaming service is very very risky (and bold), we haven't seen yet if they are making better money that way than selling the IP straight to the customers.
Vawn
Banned
Days Gone Sales: Second Best Selling Game Of 2019 in the UK
A chart from GfK Entertainment shows that Days Gone sales make it the second best selling game of 2019 in the UK so far.
www.google.com
And from the Wiki
Death Stranding is the biggest new IP retail launch of the generation in Japan - KitGuru
While Death Stranding may have underperformed in the UK launch sales charts, it seems that the Kojim
www.kitguru.net
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
No need to apologize.
I don't think we're getting robbed in today's industry. I think studios dump way too much money into expensive Hollywood-esque things like voice acting and mocap and symphony music. High cost means high risk, so why add more risk by going high creativity/innovation, too? Maybe devs are to blame, maybe publishers, but like you pointed out, why does that matter to the consumer? Why should I have to subsidize their cutscenes when all I really want is the gameplay?
Game Pass will actually bring about what I want faster (by cratering the AAA market), but we're not gonna have the "AAA games as far as the eye can see" paradise that is being promised by these companies. The business model isn't sustainable without eventually putting a halt to the loss leader gravy train.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
You do realize the revenue is more than just what the monthly subscription price is right? EA Access doesn't only get your vault games. It opens other opportunities for revenue. You keep using EA Access as an example but you dont even bother to represent it correctly.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Gamepass is the only way for indie devs to even get noticed here.
I normally don't even bother
Besides watching some youtube channels or listening to podcasts.
As there is way too much stuff to play.
Gamepass saves indie devs
And if i really like an indie i end up buying it for my switch anyway. Like minit.
No ff chance i would have ever randomly bought that.
I normally don't even bother
Besides watching some youtube channels or listening to podcasts.
As there is way too much stuff to play.
Gamepass saves indie devs
And if i really like an indie i end up buying it for my switch anyway. Like minit.
No ff chance i would have ever randomly bought that.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
You seem triggered
Bumblebeetuna
Member
What PS+ are you subscribed to? I canceled mine because the games offered were pure doodoo.
SuperLupeRap
Banned
Days Gone Sales: Second Best Selling Game Of 2019 in the UK
A chart from GfK Entertainment shows that Days Gone sales make it the second best selling game of 2019 in the UK so far.
And from the Wiki
Death Stranding is the biggest new IP retail launch of the generation in Japan - KitGuru
While Death Stranding may have underperformed in the UK launch sales charts, it seems that the Kojim
Sorry bro it flopped hard. It is what it is. Not hard to be the 2nd biggest PS4 launch of the year when there was only 2 exclusives.
Its very obvious at this point that you did not post the thread for rational discussion on the subject matter, you are projecting a frustration, imo. Nobody is trying to trick you.
Although Sony has a comparable service in PS Now, it's only detrimental to the gaming industry when Microsoft does it.
Both PS Now and Game Pass are just small revenue streams, as far as bad, I don't think so... they are simply rental services. Although, it seems like Microsoft is putting Game Pass as some type of miracle and really what they are selling. I personnally don't think it will work out for Microsoft like they are promising, but I don't think it hurts anyone unless they are investing hardware into that promise.
They are simply rental services.
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ethomaz
Banned
ethomaz
Banned
Still facts (data from NPD) vs bla bla bla I don’t believe
I being a fan can’t change NPD data
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ethomaz
Banned
Actually DF did like a MGS game in NPD.
It just sold less than the big hits of the year but pretty well.
I need to check Days Gone to say but mostly like you are wrong too.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
How many threads do you need to be wrong in?
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Yep. I'm a PC primarily guy and gamepass on PC is fucking great. Terrific value and selection.
ethomaz
Banned
Except I provide data.I saw what you did there. Nobody is providing sales figures so you’re doing the same now. Thats fair
He don’t because it doesn’t exists.
Do you guys are really trying to deny NPD just because it is me posting it?
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Moogle11
Banned
It will definitely be interesting to see how this pans out.
I think it's likely a great thing for third party games that come to the service after a while. Games sales for most titles are very front load, so subscription services give them a way to keep making some money from people who download them and check them out who probably wouldn't have bought the game otherwise.
Maybe a different story for the games that go on there launch day like the MS exclusives. I know I've stopped buying MS games as it's cheaper to just grab a month or three of Gamepass to play something like Gears 5 that I previously would have bought (though maybe not at $60).
I think it's likely a great thing for third party games that come to the service after a while. Games sales for most titles are very front load, so subscription services give them a way to keep making some money from people who download them and check them out who probably wouldn't have bought the game otherwise.
Maybe a different story for the games that go on there launch day like the MS exclusives. I know I've stopped buying MS games as it's cheaper to just grab a month or three of Gamepass to play something like Gears 5 that I previously would have bought (though maybe not at $60).
Vawn
Banned
Oh, so you're just mad and throwing a tantrum. Second biggest game period is not the same as second best selling PS4 exclusive.
Mista
Banned
Not at all. I never deny facts nor turn them around cause I’m not gaining anything at the end of it. But the day you also admit you’re a blind Sony fanboy and drop your pathetic “neutral” act is the day I’ll discuss and take you seriously. At least I’m straightforward in all my discussions and I don’t hop in every thread that isn’t about Sony and just dig to add negativity to it
You know whats also funny? That I’m willing to bet you anything you want if not the whole forum views you as I do. Cheers irmão 
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