Support NeoGAF

[kiphalfton]

Last gen we had these awesome first-person psychological horror based shooting games (i.e. F.E.A.R., Condemned, and The Darkness). However, that seemed to have ended once this generation started, only to be replaced by horror walking sims that don't give you freaking weapons and you just sneak around (i.e. Outlast, Layers of Fear, and other yawn fests).

I don't doubt that PT had a huge influence on that, as well as those stupid YouTube videos of grown adults screaming like little girls, but the bar for entry for Walking Sims is ridiculously low, since there's literally no gameplay involved beyond reading notes and walking around.

How is it that we've come to this?

 

[diffusionx]

Because the modern game industry sucks.

 

[plushyp]

the bar for entry for Walking Sims is ridiculously low, since there's literally no gameplay involved beyond reading notes and walking around

You answered your own question there. Sadly this is exactly the reason why we get numerous shovelware with basic hide and seek gameplay.

 

[rofif]

The darkness from 2007 its incredible. love that game... Still no pc port

 

[TheGreatYosh]

I think whoever comes out with an advanced walking horror game next gen first will be successful. You have to slowly reintroduce more in depth mechanics for modern baby people

 

[Shadowstar39]

We had games like layers of fear last gen and there is a place for it. I thought layers of fear was a great game, imo. It doesn't have you hiding, like say Siren which, frankly, I couldn't stand. It was all a big mind fuck. Last gen we had penumbra, penumbra overture, penumbra black plague and penumbra requiem, which were item based horror -adventure games. The same devs made Amnesia the dark descent in this gen. Now granted many here may not even know about those games because they were all pc exclusives. Good games though. Layers of fear is the same genre.

Outlast is more the siren blood curse, run and hide game play. I really don't like that, I didn't like it in resident evil 7 either, but people seem to enjoy it. I want to be able to fight back at least some. Silent hill 1/2/3 (and even homecoming and downpour, I know others don't like them, I did) were great games as well as resident evil 1, 2 and 4 (I don't like 3's nemesis, hated that game, or any game where I have to run away and hide, thankfully re2 remake that was only partially in that. As for outlast 2 haven't played it, and never finished the first as it wasnt' for me.

As for horror fps, I would love a new Fear game. Fear 1 was great mechanically but it wasn't really horror and the enviroments were bland. The physics and gunplay was amazing though. Fear 2 solved this. I loved this game. Would love a fear collection. Also dead space, is a great horror shooter. Although you may not think of it as such. Where the hell are the remaseters EA? Don't you like easy money?

We did get some horror shooters this gen. The Evil within 1 and 2, were RE4 style shooters, although 3rd person. They were great games, check them out.

 

[Danjin44]

Well mostly because Amnesia and Youtube reaction videos, especially Youtube reaction videos. after Amnesia popularity, most of these first person horror games made for Youtubers and streamers can react to them.

Hopefully with RE2Remake and upcoming RE3Remake success, will see more third person survival horror games, but less confident we gonna see that from western developers.

 

[Exentryk]

It's coz I don't play shooters, but can play these walking sims.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Well mostly because Amnesia and Youtube reaction videos, especially Youtube reaction videos. after Amnesia popularity, most of these first persona horror game made for Youtubers and streamers can react to them.

Hopefully with RE2Remake and upcoming RE3Remake success, will see more third person survival horror games, but less confident we gonna see that from western developers.

While there were other games that did the horror walking sim like Penumbra, Amnesia without a doubt is the starter of all these games and sadly none of them managed to do something better. Alien Isolation should be a good example on how to make good horror games.

 

[Psykodad]

People enjoy the feeling of helplessness I think.

I dunno, only being able to run and hide for the scary monster like in Outlast is extremely nonsensical and frustrating more than anything, if you ask me.

 

[TacosNSalsa]

Money I'm guessing. Other than the big names (RE, SH ect) does the horror genre sell well? So my guess is , it sells well enough to not completely abandon but not enough to dump serious money into . So indie devs took the reigns.

 

[GHG]

Walking sims are more accessible than games with a shooting/combat focus.

And...

For horror games the lack of meaningful ways of defending yourself ups the tension.

 

[Virex]

Because it's made to please people that don't play video games or hate video games. And fuck "more accessible".

 

[Danjin44]

People enjoy the feeling of helplessness I think.

I would argue giving you weapons makes the game much more scary and intense because by having weapons means you have to confront those monsters sooner or later and you have to make a choice to run or fight base on resources you have.

If all you have is run and hide then there no longer tension in the game because it only option you have.

 

[ShinNL]

So I've been buying those horror games and here's my story:
I haven't been able to play any of them for more than 1 hour. They are all collecting dust, or digital dust. Not having weapons and walking around normally.... that's basically how humans are. We're not superhuman with superhuman aiming. We're defenseless hairless monkeys.

But something like Resident Evil? It's basically a slow-paced zombie killing simulator with lame puzzle rooms. Nothing about that is scary. Never understood the appeal, so they are unfinished too for different reasons.

Note: I don't finish 99% of my games, so take everything with a grain of salt while I justify my buying habits.

 

[Sussoloc]

The video game industry and the customers change.

When i was young 3rd person action adventures were based on gameplay with a little bit of story. Today they are based on story with a little bit of gameplay. Not at least 4 hours of videos and cutscenes? Forget your 90+

Sometimes i miss the old days, when gaming was all about gameplay. For me "Oh Mario, please save me" is enough story for most genres.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Because they are cheaper to make? Outlast, Layers of Fear etc. are more or less indi games, whereas FEAR, Condemned or Eternal Darkness were AAA.

 

[jufonuk]

Is alien isolation a walking simulator ?

 

[Psykodad]

For horror games the lack of meaningful ways of defending yourself ups the tension.

I highly disagree. Running away all the time is basically playing hide and seek while being a coward.
All while I'll be sitting there thinking "at least let me push or punch him".

I would argue giving you weapons makes the game much more scary and intense because by having weapons means you have to confront those monsters sooner or later and you have to make a choice to run or fight base on resources you have.

If all you have is run and hide then there no longer tension in the game because it only option you have.

Completely agree l.

 

[Danjin44]

But something like Resident Evil? It's basically a slow-paced zombie killing simulator with lame puzzle rooms. Nothing about that is scary. Never understood the appeal, so they are unfinished too for different reasons.

Have you played original Resident Evil Remake? Trying to kill every Zombie and creatures will most likely screw you over, especially in Remake unless the zombies head blown off when you kill them you need to burn them, if not they will eventually comeback as crimson head and just run at you.

 

[ZywyPL]

In general, first person shooters seem to be a dying genre to begin with - as oppose to PS360 gen which was full of them, like literally there was a new FPS every single quarter, if not more often, and now we are at a point where we get what, the usual CoD every November and...?? Even BF took a break in 2019, and is rumored to skip 2020 again, there are some other shooters coming out once every 2-4 years as well like Far Cry, Halo, Doom, some online-only shooters like Overwatch or Apex Legends even less often, but in general FPS seems to be taken over by 3rd person titles, you can count on your single hand how many FPS comes out each year. So with that being said, when you take all the shooting away, your left with nothing but walking.

But I also think that's exactly where the strength of the new wave of horror games lies - the inability to fight back. Take the Slenderman for example (which I believe started the whole thing) - all you do is walk around, the Slenderman himself doesn't do shit, he's just there (better not ;p), but the game scares the shit out of anyone who plays it, it was one of the most popular and recognized titles at the time, and all the big publishers and devs took notice, and followed suit. And it clicked, the horror games are more popular/successful than ever, so I don't expect that to change anytime soon, especially given how those games can be made by even just a single person, as oppose to games like Resident Evil for example, that requires staff of hundreds of programmers and enormous budget bo be made.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Have you played original Resident Evil Remake? Trying to kill every Zombie and creatures will most likely screw you over, especially in Remake unless the zombies head blown off when you kill them you need burn then, if not they will eventually comeback as crimson head and just run at you.

You are right, but that is exactly why the“<something> simulator” moniker is a tired and cheap and a tad ignorant one used to dismiss a game without having to articulate why. It just relies on the power of the meme.

Do not like an action adventure game? Just call it Walking Sim... an FPS? A Shooting Sim. Resident Evil? A Zombie Killing Sim... etc...

 

[HonkingTonk]

One reason I can think off the top of my head is that it is harder to balance having ways to fight back. Weapons too powerful? Then the game loses much of its horror because the enemies are pushovers. Weapons too weak? The player will likely become frustrated and wonder why they put weapons in the game in the first place.

 

[Darak]

I feel like horror has moved to the survival genre with games like The Forest. Since the FPS game was streamlined with Halo and COD influences, resource management is no longer part of its formula, so horror doesn't fit very well. You still have stealth horror games, but I never liked them because they are really poor as stealth games: they have vague rules on purpose and will often troll you just to give you a jump scare, with nonsensical teleporting enemies and other shenanigans which get old really fast.

I'd also argue games like Layers of Fear or Outlast are not that successful except at the indie scale. Things like Slender and its infinite number of clones are (or were) more popular, but they are not really gaming market material, and remain mostly a mobile/Youtuber thing.

 

[HE1NZ]

Because "psychological" gimmick got old. Neither Fear nor The Darkness are actually scary at all. Condemned somewhat is if remember correctly. But generally "weird shit" is not scary, but Alien crawling around you and killing you instantly if you get caught is. Games like Outlast and Alien Isolation are way more effective as horrors.

 

[greencoder]

Because casual gamers always will be the majority. And they like this genre more I guess.

 

[Tiamat2san]

I don’t like this trend too.
It is not mandatory that we can obliterate our foes in a game but something between a one man army and a scared little boy is cool.

 

[AV]

In games like F.E.A.R. the horror wasn't the focus, it was just an FPS game with horror elements thrown in. In games like Outlast the game basically only exists to try and scare the player. Doom: Eternal is going to be about as much of a "horror game" as F.E.A.R. was.

 

[Quezacolt]

Sure these games can be scary, but i find dumb how the main characters can't even grab a chair, a stick, whatever, to try to attack the enemy, even just throwing at them would be something.

 

[MMaRsu]

Easier to make

 

[mcjmetroid]

People got it into their heads (probably from what happened to Resident evil from 4 onwards)
That you cannot have a scary game AND good controls, You cannot feel scared AND powerful

So an FPS + Horror cannot be scary.

It's all bullshit of course and one of the reasons I won't touch modern horror games. Resident Evil 2 was a nice middle ground because I wasn't a fan of 7.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Because you don't have to have design talent to make a walking simulator.

 

[Liftplus]

For me one of the best horror games was the first dead space, pitty it got killed by EA :/

 

[GymWolf]

They are different genre tbh.

Nobody call condemend or the darkness walking simulators.

 

[xrnzaaas]

There are three main reasons imo:
- It's much easier for casual players to pick up and play these games, they don't have to learn the mechanics or posess good FPS skills
- It's cheaper to make them than AA/AAA titles like FEAR
- Horror games are generally becoming less popular and there are only a few exceptions like RE7

 

[LemmingWithaParachute]

People complain of Doom 3s monster closets and jump scares - fast forward to 2010s - "wtf, i love jump scares now".

The irony that is the complaints of having to switch back and forth between weapon and flashlight, is now standard in pretty much all of these new "scary" games. Most dont even let you fight back as apparently that makes it scarier.

 

[Husky]

Because "psychological" gimmick got old. Neither Fear nor The Darkness are actually scary at all. Condemned somewhat is if remember correctly. But generally "weird shit" is not scary, but Alien crawling around you and killing you instantly if you get caught is. Games like Outlast and Alien Isolation are way more effective as horrors.

Have to agree here. I really like The Darkness, and totally love FEAR, but their ability to scare me is inexistent. It'd be cool to get some non-walking sim horror games that are actually effective against me, but for now, they're really all that've worked.
Well, I wouldn't call Alien: Isolation a walking sim. That was a swell time

The volatiles in Dying Light probably gave me a real thrill at least, and Resident Evil 2's remake offered some startles. But eh, no real dread, it's just exciting to get chased.

 

[TheGreatYosh]

We had games like layers of fear last gen and there is a place for it. I thought layers of fear was a great game, imo. It doesn't have you hiding, like say Siren which, frankly, I couldn't stand. It was all a big mind fuck. Last gen we had penumbra, penumbra overture, penumbra black plague and penumbra requiem, which were item based horror -adventure games. The same devs made Amnesia the dark descent in this gen. Now granted many here may not even know about those games because they were all pc exclusives. Good games though. Layers of fear is the same genre.

Outlast is more the siren blood curse, run and hide game play. I really don't like that, I didn't like it in resident evil 7 either, but people seem to enjoy it. I want to be able to fight back at least some. Silent hill 1/2/3 (and even homecoming and downpour, I know others don't like them, I did) were great games as well as resident evil 1, 2 and 4 (I don't like 3's nemesis, hated that game, or any game where I have to run away and hide, thankfully re2 remake that was only partially in that. As for outlast 2 haven't played it, and never finished the first as it wasnt' for me.

As for horror fps, I would love a new Fear game. Fear 1 was great mechanically but it wasn't really horror and the enviroments were bland. The physics and gunplay was amazing though. Fear 2 solved this. I loved this game. Would love a fear collection. Also dead space, is a great horror shooter. Although you may not think of it as such. Where the hell are the remaseters EA? Don't you like easy money?

We did get some horror shooters this gen. The Evil within 1 and 2, were RE4 style shooters, although 3rd person. They were great games, check them out.

You could do more than hide in Siren. You probably didn't play it enough. The sight jacking alone separates it from the Outlast style games. But you can actually fight the Shibito. And the ending is some of the coolest shit in video games. Siren is almost a great example of what kind of game I'm talking about for next gen.

 

[Tesseract]

talent

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Amnesia happened.

Plus I'll be honest, there's an intrinsic fear rooted in the complete and utter inability to "fight back", so to speak. When these people or creatures come at you, you can't whip out a spike gun and pin them to the wall, or bust out a crowbar and start smashing heads in. Your only options are to run and/or try to hide.

PLUS, most horror games are now the product of smaller, independent teams and it's much easier for them to crank out a quality game this way than having to worry about combat mechanics. Most of the higher-end stuff that required teams and budgets got chocked out by big publishers who refused to acknowledge horror was niche and expected silly huge sales numbers. (Dead Space 2 made over double its money back and sold 4 million copies and EA still considered that a flop internally, for example.)

So mostly that, and it'll probably remain that way. At least, until the next fad.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I think it's just whatever that "big" thing was to come out of the genre. Amnesia clearly got a ton of attention, and I don't think that really helped. Much like mobas, MMOs, etc. It's something that was hot, and people wanted a slice of that pie.

I also think that psychological horror just requires a lot more across the board. It's certainly preferred IMO, but it would generally require outstanding writing and storytelling. Which may not be that easy for some to acquire. So, the run & survive titles are just a bit easier to grasp.

That being said, while an oversaturated genre, there have certainly been some gems that have come from larger devs and pubs that I could never shun. Like Outlast, and my favorite of this particular genre, Alien Isolation.

I love horror, so it's cool to see more of it in genre. But I'm ready to get passed the trend for sure. Bring on the psychological and thinking horror they really jars me and makes me uncomfortable.

 

[TGO]

I wouldn't say it replaced them as they wasn't that big anyway, 3rd person horror was replaced.
But I would like to see more F. E. A. R like horror games and 3rd person horror Next-Gen
Those walking FPS Horror games need to die.

 

[Southern Gentleman]

How many people ITT forgot Five Nights at Freddy's?

 

[Butz]

Walking sims are more accessible than games with a shooting/combat focus.

And...

For horror games the lack of meaningful ways of defending yourself ups the tension.

A good way to balance this would be having enemies you can defend yourself against with weapons/guns but also having enemies that are much stronger and basically take no damage.
So you have the combat and the hiding.

 

[spawn]

YouTubers like Pewdiepie made them popular, but walking sims are starting to die out now

 

[ShinNL]

Have you played original Resident Evil Remake? Trying to kill every Zombie and creatures will most likely screw you over, especially in Remake unless the zombies head blown off when you kill them you need to burn them, if not they will eventually comeback as crimson head and just run at you.

I remember killing the intro zombie and then I stashed it away to play it another day. That GameCube disc is still lying around here somewhere. So I killed 100% of the zombies I've encountered. Game looks nice. 10/10 will probably buy it again when on discount for Switch.

 

[Alexios]

How are FEAR and Condemned and The Darkness psychological horror? I can see that case for some Silent Hill titles but come on. They're visceral action games, fun af to play, with a horror-esque theme/setting at best.

And they weren't replaced by anything, light on gameplay adventures were a thing before them too. We clearly still get all out action FPS (new Doom looks cool) and horror-setting action games like Resident Evil too, so...

 

[Danjin44]

I remember killing the intro zombie and then I stashed it away to play it another day. That GameCube disc is still lying around here somewhere. So I killed 100% of the zombies I've encountered. Game looks nice. 10/10 will probably buy it again when on discount for Switch.

I don’t know maybe on normal difficulty? but after Jill playthrough, I played it again with Chris on hard and there is no way you can kill all zombies, you just don’t have enough bullets for it and compare to Jill you have even less inventory space, so I couldn't just bring that fuel to burn the zombies because it would take even more inventory space.

 

[Southern Gentleman]

YouTubers like Pewdiepie made them popular, but walking sims are starting to die out now

So Death Stranding was the final nail in the coffin, then?

Didn't that one sell pretty well?

inb4 "not a walking sim" ... what do you spend 90% of the game doing?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

People want to watch movies or have "experiences" over playing an actual game.