• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.
megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
WhispersintheWind said:
Also Sony Supposedly has a patent on some Tech with Nand In PS5 SSD that makes them faster for Virtual Ram and Caching data from them in a Consistent stream. Like I said that is a rumor.
Click to expand...

Can you explain a little more about virtual RAM? Doesn't it entail constant writing to that memory?

I was reading about it and it seems to me that the data in the virtual RAM should be decompressed similar to how it is decompressed in the main RAM. If the SSD can act as virtual RAM with the data remain as is then the whole SSD is virtual RAM. What am I missing?

I am thinking there is a small amount about 32-64GB of SLC NAND in the SSD.

or, you know, ReRAM.
 
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
megreotsugua said:
Can you explain a little more about virtual RAM? Doesn't it entail constant writing to that memory?

I was reading about it and it seems to me that the data in the virtual RAM should be decompressed similar to how it is decompressed in the main RAM. If the SSD can act as virtual RAM with the data remain as is then the whole SSD is virtual RAM. What am I missing?

I am thinking there is a small amount about 32-64GB of SLC NAND in the SSD.

or, you know, ReRAM.
Click to expand...

Good Question. Unfortunately I don’t have the detailed answers you seek. Maybe you can find them if you Google the Sony SSD NAND Patent.

I do believe and I’m under the assumption. That while it’s it in tile resourcing/ Mega Texture mode it can read and write at the same time in a virtual ram state. With the amount of allocated memory to virtual memory. I not 100% sure though...you would have to fact check that..
 
Last edited:
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
o'dium said:
Meanwhile, Marvel films tend to mostly be amazing.
Click to expand...

You mean like Captain Flat?

q4sz9hdaq1n01.jpg
 
megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
WhispersintheWind said:
Good Question. Unfortunately I don’t have the detailed answers you seek. Maybe you can find them if you Google the Sony SSD NAND Patent.

I do believe and I’m under the assumption. That while it’s it in tile resourcing/ Mega Texture mode it can read and write at the same time in a virtual ram state. With the amount of allocated memory to virtual memory. I not 100% sure though...you would have to fact check that..
Click to expand...

The problem is that games that come on disc and the cloud are heavily compressed and installed in the main storage still compressed to save space.

Can the SSD act as a virtual RAM by feeding the main RAM with compressed data?

I feel like the virtual RAM should be a cache. A small amount of memory to where data will be decompressed.

Or, the entire SSD is the virtual RAM. Perhaps the compression ratio is perfect for the decompression chip they included.

Yeah I remember the Sony NAND patent has a decompression chip. Maybe that's it.
 
thurnishaleygw

thurnishaleygw

Member
WhispersintheWind said:
Me too.... Somebody get Mod of War Mod of War Some Coffee and Breakfast...

Also Mod of War Mod of War when you Vet and Verify what I sent and confirm to the thread. What I said is factual Truth. Can you use the Star Wars GIF with Han Solo saying it’s all True all Of it. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I don't even know why I'm laughing so hard at this part :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Edit: I hope you don't go full Kylo Ren if he doesn't, though :messenger_fearful:
 
Last edited:
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
Agnostic2020 said:
Haha you have already chosen your redemption gif 🤣

So you are in 11.5 to 12.5 camp?
Click to expand...
Like I have said from the beginning. End of October beginning Of November 2 Devs said they was targeting 10TF. Then Sometime in February was told they are targeting 11TF.

If Devs are Targeting 11TF. The console will be more then 11TF. Because during the Optimization Stage they will use the extra Overhead.

So in my Opinion 11TF-12Tf is realistic. 13TF slightly Possible.
 
FeiRR

FeiRR

Banned
lepermessiah said:
Say they've implemented some clever SSD trickery, would this free up the gpu and allow for more juicy flops/performance?
Click to expand...
Yes, very much. Texture decompression takes a lot of compute. Shifting it to a specialized chip will be a huge win. But if devs say both consoles are close, Microsoft must have something similar.

Sony has a lot of experience in high-capacity memory storage. The problem is the price of such solutions. For example, a 512 GB AXSM memory card costs $2500. Even if you consider the high profit margin they add to professional products, this is still about a level of magnitude too expensive. And those cards are 'just' 2.4 GB/s. Their fastest media are up to 10 GB/s from what I see but I don't even know how much they are.
 
FeiRR

FeiRR

Banned
WhispersintheWind said:
I Think he has his phone off! Been trying to call Mod of War Mod of War all Night. He will probably say he was sleeping, so he could wake up early and Praise The Sun or something!...LoL
Click to expand...
If he's based in Europe, we have quite a lot of other things on our minds right now. Like fighting for food in shops and dealing with a 2-week closure of almost everything.
If he's based in the US, isn't it middle of the night? Also, you folks better prepare, the pandemic shit is getting serious and I mostly mean people's behaviour, not the illness itself.
 
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
FeiRR said:
If he's based in Europe, we have quite a lot of other things on our minds right now. Like fighting for food in shops and dealing with a 2-week closure of almost everything.
If he's based in the US, isn't it middle of the night? Also, you folks better prepare, the pandemic shit is getting serious and I mostly mean people's behaviour, not the illness itself.
Click to expand...
Talking Real Life. I have spent a lot of this week prepping. Felt I had too. Bottle Water and Toilet Paper Shortage. Thankfully got Toilet Paper and I mean Plenty of Toilet Paper! I also stocked up on a Month worth of groceries. Also some games to play Also...!
 
Last edited:
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
Hostile_18 said:
I'm preparing myself for these consoles not coming out this year now unfortunately.

Best expect it now and be pleasantly surprised if they do come out this year than the other way around IMO.
Click to expand...

If it gets serious Yes it can. Though it might effect Sony More. Microsoft has a huge Place in Mexico where they can assemble consoles at. They have assembled Xboxes there before. Plus They Repair Xbox’s there.

I don’t know if Sony has any plants for Assembly. It could cause PS5’s to run short.

That’s if Both can get all the parts manufactured at a steady supply rate.
 
Last edited:
M.Night Shyamalan

M.Night Shyamalan

Member
WhispersintheWind said:
It feels that way. I haven’t got official details on memory Bandwidth, L3 Caches and lot of details that can matter. Just Generic stuff...
Click to expand...
A point of contention, and some may disagree.
We knew PS4 was 1.8TF in 2012. This is because official white paper leak happend, having target specs. At that point in time, dev kits may have been lower than that, we don't know. But there were multiple gpu configurations being thrown around based on leaks. Stemroller CPU's and dual 6770s in dev kit. BUT that 1.84TF was always known. For a long time. All because devs had white papers, we assume Klee and Matt knew Hithub wasn't telling whole story because they both dismissed it outright. Klee saying 12TF for Series X, then saying PS5 edges it. White paper specs will tell you what Sony is targeting... but not how they get there.
Now if Klee said Anaconda is 12TF... and PS5 edges it. After MS revealed 12TF, he said nothing changed, it's still what he has said. How could the devs you spoke to say Sony was "targeting " 10TF, then 11TF etc.
They would get a dev kit, it will be 9, 10, 11 TF (for example), then the White paper accompanying it will say "we are targeting 12TF" or any other number. Hence we knew in 2012 PS4 was 1.84TF... even when dev kits wasn't that number.
 
Hostile_18

Hostile_18

Banned
WhispersintheWind said:
If it gets serious Yes it can. Though it might effect Sony More. Microsoft has a huge Place in Mexico where they can assemble consoles at. They have assembled Xboxes there before. Plus They Repair Xbox’s there.

I don’t know if Sony has any plants for Assembly. It could cause PS5’s to run short.

That’s if Both can get all the parts manufactured at a steady supply rate.
Click to expand...

If one comes out before the other one and it's a significant delay I'd actually get both consoles, for the first time ever.
 
nikolino840

nikolino840

Member
M.Night Shyamalan said:
A point of contention, and some may disagree.
We knew PS4 was 1.8TF in 2012. This is because official white paper leak happend, having target specs. At that point in time, dev kits may have been lower than that, we don't know. But there were multiple gpu configurations being thrown around based on leaks. Stemroller CPU's and dual 6770s in dev kit. BUT that 1.84TF was always known. For a long time. All because devs had white papers, we assume Klee and Matt knew Hithub wasn't telling whole story because they both dismissed it outright. Klee saying 12TF for Series X, then saying PS5 edges it. White paper specs will tell you what Sony is targeting... but not how they get there.
Now if Klee said Anaconda is 12TF... and PS5 edges it. After MS revealed 12TF, he said nothing changed, it's still what he has said. How could the devs you spoke to say Sony was "targeting " 10TF, then 11TF etc.
They would get a dev kit, it will be 9, 10, 11 TF (for example), then the White paper accompanying it will say "we are targeting 12TF" or any other number. Hence we knew in 2012 PS4 was 1.84TF... even when dev kits wasn't that number.
Click to expand...
Seems Sony engineers don't even know what they are doing.. random specs..i think in project they know the final specs
 
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
M.Night Shyamalan said:
A point of contention, and some may disagree.
We knew PS4 was 1.8TF in 2012. This is because official white paper leak happend, having target specs. At that point in time, dev kits may have been lower than that, we don't know. But there were multiple gpu configurations being thrown around based on leaks. Stemroller CPU's and dual 6770s in dev kit. BUT that 1.84TF was always known. For a long time. All because devs had white papers, we assume Klee and Matt knew Hithub wasn't telling whole story because they both dismissed it outright. Klee saying 12TF for Series X, then saying PS5 edges it. White paper specs will tell you what Sony is targeting... but not how they get there.
Now if Klee said Anaconda is 12TF... and PS5 edges it. After MS revealed 12TF, he said nothing changed, it's still what he has said. How could the devs you spoke to say Sony was "targeting " 10TF, then 11TF etc.
They would get a dev kit, it will be 9, 10, 11 TF (for example), then the White paper accompanying it will say "we are targeting 12TF" or any other number. Hence we knew in 2012 PS4 was 1.84TF... even when dev kits wasn't that number.
Click to expand...

Unlike This Gen. I haven’t seen any white papers. Just word of mouth from Devs. I believe they haven’t been saying a whole lot because they don’t want to risk losing there jobs. The Devs I talk to are All 3rd Party. So I don’t Know if that Makes a difference or not.
 
Last edited:
megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
WhispersintheWind said:
It feels that way. I haven’t got official details on memory Bandwidth, L3 Caches and lot of details that can matter. Just Generic stuff...
Click to expand...

I assume in case ReRAM will be in the final hardware, you can't confirm nor deny as well?

I'll keep the hope alive as long as it is not categorically denied by people in the know.
 
bhunachicken

bhunachicken

Member
At this point, I'm mostly concerned with the price of the machine. If Sony go for 11TF, they're probably going to have to take a massive loss to undercut MS and also remain competitive.

I remember a statement that Sony issued a while back about how the PS5 would be set at a price that "would appeal to gamers".

Hmmm. Sounds like a $500+ machine to me.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
bhunachicken said:
At this point, I'm mostly concerned with the price of the machine. If Sony go for 11TF, they're probably going to have to take a massive loss to undercut MS and also remain competitive.

I remember a statement that Sony issued a while back about how the PS5 would be set at a price that "would appeal to gamers".

Hmmm. Sounds like a $500+ machine to me.
Click to expand...
Price will mostly like be $499 for both.
 
B

BattleScar

Member
megreotsugua said:
I don't frequent forums much in the past few months. How was it debunked?
Click to expand...
Exorbitant expense when it comes to HBM2, and the fact that there are no working products with ReRAM and its ridiculously unlikely the technology will debut in a razor-thin margin console environment. They tried this once before with the PS3 and Blu Ray, and it fucking raped their finances for half a decade.
 
megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
BattleScar said:
Exorbitant expense when it comes to HBM2, and the fact that there are no working products with ReRAM and its ridiculously unlikely the technology will debut in a razor-thin margin console environment. They tried this once before with the PS3 and Blu Ray, and it fucking raped their finances for half a decade.
Click to expand...

Oh ok. I thought there was a new argument. Those are valid arguments against ReRAM though.
 
trancefreak64

trancefreak64

Member
ANIMAL1975 said:
It means another push of the Github followers, on the 8/9TF PS5 bullshit narrative. Now that the positive news around RDNA2 and AMDs keynote have settled down... they're back to the game, countering with old Komachi tweets from last year, and da Githubz again of course! Why? To bring down the good momentum created, and put the PS5 back to the negative word of mouth.


No its not, it's old reposted data from May-June, it clearly says in the tweets.
It's Oberon C0 that is from December _ the one they know nothing about. And in January Komachi tweeted about E0 sample, yet another revision! _ and then deleted it when got bombarded with questions...
Click to expand...
Shocking Lolz. I used to be pretty into developmental GPU leaks a long time ago and the data was typically spot on with the 🧂mixed in. Especially Nvidia chipsets with their GFX 100 coded numbers.

Analysts/Leakers could tell typically what these Nvidia chips were by GPU die sizes, embedded numbers from previous GPU generations, and obviously by other technical means.

There could be very simple straightforward GFX counterparts that have the same chip number from one generation to the next.

That shit makes it obviously much easier to decipher unlike crazy ass codenames from The almighty Oberon from Github lol.
There's the exception as well that could end up with a release code of the chip that doesn't specifically match the allocating market number, like a Nvidia GTX 295. Sorry don't have the code number.

That's definitely an oddity in the GPU table but is way easier to speculate on what that Nvidia Graphics card might officially entail when speculating after a manufacturing leak.

Point is, every enthusiast reporting on an upcoming PC components Graphics card, would always stipulate that the interpretation of the product was a very well conceived educated guess upon examination.

These Github nut tuggers treat the Oberon Aerial leak as a puro definitive truth leak :pie_roffles::pie_roffles::pie_roffles:. Bunch of 🤡🤡🤡 IMO that don't have great intentions with their Github religious beliefs 🤣🤣🤣🤣

And, ugh; After AMDs financial day conference, the Github data should have been kicked off the planet for good y'all.
 
cragarmi

cragarmi

Member
WhispersintheWind said:
Unlike This Gen. I haven’t seen any white papers. Just word of mouth from Devs. I believe they haven’t been saying a whole lot because they don’t want to risk losing there jobs. The Devs I talk to are All 3rd Party. So I don’t Know if that Makes a difference or not.
Click to expand...
Any white paper would have been available since begining of 2019. We are in the end game now anyway, lets see what happens after Playstation Celebration has ended. Hold onto your hats everyone!
 
Symax

Symax

Member
I can confirm that the PS5 will be 11TF - 13TF and the more important news: water is wet. Its purely speculation at this point though. My first party sources are pretty vague on the information. Waiting for confirmation form Mod of War Mod of War . I send him a photo of Mark Cerny's hand holding the new DualShock 5 Controller.

kkZV4uM.jpg
 
thurnishaleygw

thurnishaleygw

Member
FeiRR said:
If he's based in Europe, we have quite a lot of other things on our minds right now. Like fighting for food in shops and dealing with a 2-week closure of almost everything.
If he's based in the US, isn't it middle of the night? Also, you folks better prepare, the pandemic shit is getting serious and I mostly mean people's behaviour, not the illness itself.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this thing is getting more and more serious by the minute. I'm from Spain and here pretty much the whole country is starting to close everything that is not basic needs, some places are being confined in order to avoid anybody coming in or out of them...Peronally I'm not too worried by all this, since, at the end of the day, we should be just following the guidelines we are given and that should be enough to, in less time or in more time than expected, get it over with. But there are people that are really freaking out, and I would argue that is the kind of reaction that is going to make all this way worse than it should be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AMD RDNA 5 To Be A Completely New GPU Architecture From The Ground Up, RDNA 4 Mostly Fixes RDNA 3 Issues & Improves Ray Tracing
News Rumor Hardware 2 3
128
6K
SoloCamo replied
Was 8 CPU cores enough for 9th gen consoles? Strix Halo, the prefect console.
Opinion Analysis 2
62
3K
Tertullian replied
Tom Warren - Sony’s PS5 Pro is real and Sony is asking developers to get games ready over the summer, with a push for ray-tracing support
News Hardware Hype 2 3 4
186
14K
DanielG165 replied
Report: Upcoming 'Turin' Zen 5 CPUs will support 4TB of RAM at 6000 MT/s
Rumor Hardware
43
3K
OverHeat replied
Leak - Zen 5 is now in mass production, release in late 2024
Hardware 2
61
6K
CuteFaceJay replied
Top Bottom