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[Shmunter]

I have the same question. Someone that knows how this works please reply. LOL

Disturbing Side Note: Would the jerks flooding my email with threats please stop. It's clear that someone viewing this site (this all started when OB and the others were razzing me when they thought I was trying to be an "insider" when I wasn't) has access to my Sony gaming profile. Someone has this evening said they were going to burn down my house (and gave an accurate address for where I used to live, luckily I hadn't updated my address on PS in a minute) and other such ridiculousness. Some individuals have even mentioned games that I own and specific achievements, etc. I've never associated my email or PSN ID with this NeoGaf account. Please stop, this is really troubling. I didn't even say anything anti-Sony today, and who cares if I did. Obviously, I have no information about MS or Sony, PLEASE stop the nonsense. I'll start turning this stuff over to the police if this nonsense continues. Sorry for the rant.

That sucks. Rest assured it would be nothing more than a kid doing it for lol’s

 

[Sejanus]

It doesn't matter what we prefer, we don't make the games, what's better for the developers is what matters the most.

Correct
I just think 16gb 512gb / s from split memory setup is better.

 

[geordiemp]

I believe that both ms and Sony will use the same Gpu (custom rx5800).
Which would probably be the specs:
Rx5800 xrt
Rdna2.0 ~ 320mm / 275w
56cu (2ghz-max) ~ 14.3tf (rtx2080ti)
12gb 384bit / 672gb / s
Price: $ 499

Rx5800 pro rt
Rdna2.0 ~ 320mm / 225w
52cu (1,9ghz-max) ~ 12.6tf (rtx2080s)
10gb 320bit / 560gb / s
Price: $ 399

(new q4-2020 prices for rx5700xt: 299 $ -rx5700pro: $ 199)

The one that came closest to me is the coretechs for me

5: 36min
From 07/19/19

Except why would MS price $ 100 cheaper for the same chip ? If Sony have a low cost patented cooling solution, then why the US$ 100 ?

In reality, who is cheaper is a business deceisoon on margins and payback from software sales, not the cost of hardware/.

 

[Sejanus]

Except why would MS price $ 100 cheaper for the same chip ? If Sony have a low cost patented cooling solution, then why the US$ 100 ?

In reality, who is cheaper is a business deceisoon on margins and payback from software sales, not the cost of hardware/.

 

[bitbydeath]

You can't just produce new, more powerful chip 6 months before console release.

Is that a github meme?

 

[Nickolaidas]

No, the original quote (I think it was from Digital Foundry) was that purely running RT on unified shaders would require 13TF of compute, however that has been offloaded on to dedicated hardware. So the Xbox has 12TF of traditional shader compute and additional 13TF of ray tracing compute, which added together is "25TF".

All of this is absolute bollocks, and whomever decided to make this bullshit up is preying on most console fans having little understanding of the technology. Its misleading bollocks.

It's almost like Digital Foundry was told that the PS5 will be more than 12Tfs, and now they (DF) are trying to one-up Sony in advance on MS' behalf.

But that would be crazy! (Laughs hysterically)

 

[Sejanus]

Except why would MS price $ 100 cheaper for the same chip ? If Sony have a low cost patented cooling solution, then why the US$ 100 ?

In reality, who is cheaper is a business deceisoon on margins and payback from software sales, not the cost of hardware/.

Because of a massive order and 50$-70$ loss.
Let's say series x bom cost:
150$ for the apu
100$ for the ram
It's not a big change from series one or one x bom.

 

[John254]

Is that a github meme?

What?
I mean, if Sony will reveal PS5 today and it will be 13,3 TFLOP or whatever, does anybody think, that Microsoft will scrap whole XsX chip and produce more powerful one? And still get console out on Holiday 2020?

I mean, unlike many here i really don't care which console will be more powerful. More important thing is to not be more expansive, while being weaker or same power
So, if PS5 is more powerful and it will cost 599€ and XsX will be less powerful and it will cost 549€, that's okay

 

[Hhhhttt]

What was Tommy predictions before?

Same as always

 

[geordiemp]

Because of a massive order and 50$-70$ loss.
Let's say series x bom cost:
150$ for the apu
100$ for the ram
It's not a big change from series one or one x bom.

So why would Sony charge 100$ more ? Is the Ps5 order not also equally massive ? Remember ps4 almost at 110 million ?

I read somewhere that the cost for 7nm is around 60-80 % more than 14 nm, so a die the same size costs allot more.

People getting hung up on BOM costs from X1X and Ps4pro might be well wrong and te bloomberg article is probably well off speculation IMO..

I think we will be lucky if both next gen consoles are US$ 499 is my take, and thats with a loss for both MS and Sony.

7nm plus 16 GB RAM and SSD will be equally expensive for both of them

 

[Nickolaidas]

Edit: I keep click this thread thinking it’s the other one, lol.

People are totally misunderstanding what the hardware is doing, so let me make this really simple for you.

You have two cups of water. One cup is your game, essentially everything you would render on a console right now. Another cup, is your ray traced stuff, this would be for anything that would require rays, be it ray traced contact shadows, Gi, reflections etc.

The general idea is that cup 1 is 12 tf and cup 2 is 13tf.

You render your game using the original 12tf, and can reach 12tf of performance this way, using everything EXCEPT DXR. This means you would have essentially 12tf of pure performance. THEN, on top of that, you have another 13tf of power devoted “solely” to DXR. This 13tf of power will NOT allow you to do more stuff the other could, so you won’t be rendering more models or textures or whatever. But it WILL allow you to render a theoretical 13tfs worth of DXR “stuff”.

So in short, the console is still 12tf, but it’s actual output is far greater if you’re using DXR, but ONLY for DXR related stuff. It’s not a 25tf console.

This is an annoying thing that should be cleared up.

The other thing I keep seeing already is that SSD game loading is soooooo slow, compared to Spidermans instant loading. Spiderman was a custom built game for that demo to show what could be done, state of decay 2 was essentially a “pop the disk in and see” video to show you the general speed increase that will happen to media UNPATCHED. It’s about as fair a comparison as two kettles, one of which is made from chocolate.

That was my fear, tbh. Non-patched last-gen games will greatly benefit from the SSDs, but not to the point of eliminating loading speeds.

Still, going from 50 seconds of asset loading down to 8 is nothing to scoff and will hugely benefit all those last gen open world games, as also fighting games.

 

[BattleScar]

It's almost like Digital Foundry was told that the PS5 will be more than 12Tfs, and now they (DF) are trying to one-up Sony in advance on MS' behalf.

But that would be crazy! (Laughs hysterically)

While I do think Digital Foundry have always had a tendency to show favouritism with Xbox, I think this is a level of tin foil too far. Their article has the quote, but its written as being a statement from the microsoft rep, rather than their own fabrication.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Is it possible the 13.3tfs for the PS5 is based on GCN

clearly clutching at straws there mate.

 

[ethomaz]

Some explaining needed for this pic (I know it's been enhanced etc)

Firstly the die size does seem to be 490mm2 (GDDR6 is 14x12mm) - but there are black bars on either side . effective calculated size is 460mm2 - checks out.

Now look at the Zen2 cores - my calculated size = 28mm2 each (wtf?) .. even if that is just the cores and not cache that's small Zen2 CCX size is supposed to be 74-80mm2 .. and even if those blank area between and below are cache they seem a little small - l2+l3 should be about the same size as the core . these look about 2/3 the size.

1. Cores are smaller becuase 7nm+
2. Probably cut down cache too.

You probably wanted to say 390mm2 and 360mm2.

 

[ZywyPL]

Correct
I just think 16gb 512gb / s from split memory setup is better.

Same. I'm seriously surprised that after all the issues ESRAM from XB1 caused, and after learning their mistake wit X1X, MS is once again going into split bandwidth setup, and split pool on top of that. Granted, almost half of the slower RAM will be reserved for the OS, but that still leaves the developers in an uncomfortable position woth those 3.5GB. Even a 12GB GDDR6 with full bandwidth + 4GB DDR4 for OS would be a better (easier/safer) option in my opinion.

 

[Entroyp]

Can someone explain to me how using RT means tapping into 25TF?

That comment is making people go full retard.

 

[trancefreak64]

Can someone explain to me how using RT means tapping into 25TF?

Digital Foundry stated something vaguely that without dedicated tracing The Xbox would utilize 13 Tflops of raw power.

They also mentioned something about the Xbox using half floating points which is, I believe, X2 precession at 25Tflops using less bandwidth to achieve different results. I need to rewatch that portion of the Digital foundry video because I don't quite understand it all myself. I kinda know what it means but more research is required on my part.

 

[farmerboy]

Sony are more powerful, that's why they've been quiet, they didn't want to give Microsoft time to respond.

13.3tf's RDNA2, more CU's at higher clocks and more RT Cores, 24gb of RAM (20 useable for games), CPU at 3.6hz 8c16t zen 2.

Almost every time you post it feels like such a matter of fact statement. God I hope you're right.

 

[ethomaz]

What?
I mean, if Sony will reveal PS5 today and it will be 13,3 TFLOP or whatever, does anybody think, that Microsoft will scrap whole XsX chip and produce more powerful one? And still get console out on Holiday 2020?

I mean, unlike many here i really don't care which console will be more powerful. More important thing is to not be more expansive, while being weaker or same power
So, if PS5 is more powerful and it will cost 599€ and XsX will be less powerful and it will cost 549€, that's okay

MS can still increase clocks without change anything like they did with Xbox One.
I think that is what people says when they talk about MS increasing the power.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

Sony are more powerful, that's why they've been quiet, they didn't want to give Microsoft time to respond.

13.3tf's RDNA2, more CU's at higher clocks and more RT Cores, 24gb of RAM (20 useable for games), CPU at 3.6hz 8c16t zen 2.

1. we get 13.3 by trusting Tommy Fisher. And if we are doing so then we know its the same CUs, just higher clocks

2. theres no way it has 24gb ram. Ram has been one of the costliest things for these consoles so having an additional 8gb over xbox, plus a faster ssd, and plus more cooling and you are easily looking at something at least $100 more expensive.

do you REALLY think Sony will release a $600+ console?

Id like to know why TF posted something so obviously fake as the ds5 pic. He either guessed Xbox right but didnt actually have any sources, had only MS sources and made up the sony specs, or he actually has sources for each and for some unknown reason gave reason to make people think he was a fraud.

idk which it is, but i dont believe Sony is coming out with something $100+ more than xbox

 

[PocoJoe]

What?
I mean, if Sony will reveal PS5 today and it will be 13,3 TFLOP or whatever, does anybody think, that Microsoft will scrap whole XsX chip and produce more powerful one? And still get console out on Holiday 2020?

I mean, unlike many here i really don't care which console will be more powerful. More important thing is to not be more expansive, while being weaker or same power
So, if PS5 is more powerful and it will cost 599€ and XsX will be less powerful and it will cost 549€, that's okay

Sony is the clear winner of this gen, they have much much stronger and more popular brand (outside of us/uk) so why should they change their release plan when MS "panics" and shows all of their cards?

It's still like 6-8 months till they are sold on stores, do you think that people just see xsex specs and think "ok now I will buy xbox, I ignore ps5 reveal when it happens before they are available"?

I would estimate that Sony will wait for some time until they reveal PS5 specs bit by bit, gaining HUGE hype and attention while MS have nothing else to reveal, or only minor stuff.

So, near the launch Sony have their brand popularity + brand loyalty + epic success of ps4 + the hype from reveal closer to the launch = fatality.

 

[trancefreak64]

Tech Power Up had a reference like this.

Theoretical Performance
Pixel Rate146.0 GPixel/sTexture Rate379.6 GTexel/sFP16 (half) performance24.29 TFLOPS (2:1)FP32 (float) performance12.15 TFLOPSFP64 (double) performance759.2 GFLOPS (1:16)

AMD Xbox Series X GPU Specs

AMD Scarlett, 1825 MHz, 3328 Cores, 208 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 320 bit

www.techpowerup.com

 

[lepermessiah]

The Fisher gambit - 13.3

OsirisBlack purrrr machine - 12.4


Lepermessiah's prediction - juices for Cerny

 

[thelastword]

Its strange that the leak stated that the PS5 BOM is less then the XSX.
It would be surprising that the ps5 has more ram, a more powerful GPU and is cheaper, all whilen having a more expensive cooling system.

My guess for why this could be the case would be that ms spent more on the overall design, the xsx is a very sleek design regarding its modular design, things like the dual motherboard and fancy fan may have bumped up the price?

Sony has produced a more powerful console cheaper than Microsoft before with better memory, better design and features......If you need the answer to that, just review 2013.....

At this point, what hasn't MS told us about the Series X? Just trying to get my bearings on all of this.

Nothing about games......Gears at Ultra with some lighting tweaks that barely looks different from the PC version is not why you are looking forward to the next gen, I've already played Gears 5 at 60fps, it wasn't that great....I'm not buying a new console just to play again with some tweaks at 60fps......MS has not shown a thing, nothing new or exciting in the games department, not even rumors of great things, like you would hear an upcoming Silent hill, Castlevania or new Killzone for PS5......There are no rumors of exciting games for XBOX...

So whats peoples thoughts... Will Sony concede the Power trophy to Microsoft, or will Sony come out with the biggest shock since the famous E3 $299 speech.

Perhaps you shoul dask Penello about that, he knows a lot about MS not conceding power...….Yet, there would be nothing shocking of Sony coming out ahead of MS in specs and features come reveal....It is what is expected at this point....

Is it possible the 13.3tfs for the PS5 is based on GCN

NO, GCN is done, well not done...….It's termed CDNA now, it got massive boosts in the new Vega APU chips for laptops etc....And of course dedicated compute performance is going to be through the roof with the upcoming CDNA compute GPU's (non-gaming)…..

GCN was trying to catch two birds with one stone, but the twins were separated and they are now functioning and excelling on their own...…..If you are impressed with the frames Series X can pull out on say Gears 5 vs a 2080ti, it just shows how fast RDNA 2 is...….That's only 52 CU's though.....The 80 CU cards on a much larger chip will be absolute monsters.....Nvidia is trembling right now...All future games will be primarily developed from console/AMD type architecture, having an AMD rig will be to your benefit.

I honestly do not understand MS giving hands on events for a product that is not releasing until October at the earliest. Minimum 7 months away. They've blown they're load now they're just going to go from hard to semi to flaccid and uninterested come Holiday period.

Can you imagine Apple letting journos go hands on with iPhone 14 and then not releasing for another 8 months? Yeah, me neither.

What do they do now? It's not like they have exciting exclusive games to show till launch in November? MS has blown their loads.....Now everybody who wanted the specs so badly, what now? Are you playing it, can you even pre-order one......You will just be twiddling your thumbs in March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October and parts of November...…..That is a long time and lots of other things will inhabit the conversation, like many upcoming GOTY games for 2020...….

Yes that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming. So basically using RT doesn't tax the 12tf gpu. That is great to know.

That is not correct, it's still a console with a single pipeline, where CPU, GPU, MEM share the bandwidth.....It's all interchangeable and directly related......It's like someone telling you increasing the shadows, texture quality on a RTX game will cause no impact on raw performance.

It's for this reason that I think extremely high and fast memory bandwidth is most important for this console generation especially.....The HBCC wont mitigate against a lack of memory and bandwidth.....You will get less stuttering. lesser loadtimes, less lod issues in games with the faster storage, but nothing replaces fast ram and bandwidth.....The higher the ram and bandwidth for the more ambitious games the better...….I think 10GB Optimal ram is severely limited and you will see it's limits in multiplats and exclusives within the first year of these consoles....

 

[Reindeer]

Sony are more powerful, that's why they've been quiet, they didn't want to give Microsoft time to respond.

13.3tf's RDNA2, more CU's at higher clocks and more RT Cores, 24gb of RAM (20 useable for games), CPU at 3.6hz 8c16t zen 2.

All that along with 24GB Ram for $450? LOL, you need to wake up from whatever fantasy you living in.

 

[rnlval]

What?
I mean, if Sony will reveal PS5 today and it will be 13,3 TFLOP or whatever, does anybody think, that Microsoft will scrap whole XsX chip and produce more powerful one? And still get console out on Holiday 2020?

I mean, unlike many here i really don't care which console will be more powerful. More important thing is to not be more expansive, while being weaker or same power
So, if PS5 is more powerful and it will cost 599€ and XsX will be less powerful and it will cost 549€, that's okay

MS could overclock XSX GPU via a firmware update. It depends on the cooling solution's extra TDP headroom.

 

[Rudius]

I don't see how anyone could possibly be expecting the PS5 to be near as powerful as the Xbox Series X. Look at the size of the Series X, and still how compactly everything is packed inside.

Sony absolutely is not going to release a console that large. Japanese consoles always tend to be significantly smaller than amercian consoles. The PS5 will be smaller and less powerful.

I am not biased at all in saying that. I want the PS5 to be more powerful. I will be buying the PS5 at launch and not the series X, only because of Playstation VR2.

If Microsoft supports Oculus and/or Valve's VR headsets for the Series X, then I will consider going with Xbox, but as things stand, I will instead be getting the PS5. But there is just no chance the PS5 will be as large as the series x to be able to pack 50+ cus.

I agree with the VR part. That would certainly make me buy a Series X, along with the PS5 and PSVR2, specially if it has PCVR titles available for it.

 

[transformer]

It's almost like Digital Foundry was told that the PS5 will be more than 12Tfs, and now they (DF) are trying to one-up Sony in advance on MS' behalf.

But that would be crazy! (Laughs hysterically)

Or, for the non tinfoil hat wearers, it’s like just calling it a 12TF GPU, and not discussing the other GPU hardware, would be an inaccurate description of the hardware and it’s capabilities.

 

[PocoJoe]

1. we get 13.3 by trusting Tommy Fisher. And if we are doing so then we know its the same CUs, just higher clocks

2. theres no way it has 24gb ram. Ram has been one of the costliest things for these consoles so having an additional 8gb over xbox, plus a faster ssd, and plus more cooling and you are easily looking at something at least $100 more expensive.

do you REALLY think Sony will release a $600+ console?

Id like to know why TF posted something so obviously fake as the ds5 pic. He either guessed Xbox right but didnt actually have any sources, had only MS sources and made up the sony specs, or he actually has sources for each and for some unknown reason gave reason to make people think he was a fraud.

idk which it is, but i dont believe Sony is coming out with something $100+ more than xbox

Well Sony have sold twice or even more of PS4 than xbox, so maybe they get better deals for parts for next gen + they are hardware company so they could have better connections. MS can buy their way in but if they still sell the half, volumes are lower.

They have released +600 console, PS3. Maybe they learnt from it, maybe they accept bigger loss, what it does to Sony isnt certainly what is costs at store

Fisher just talked shit, copied known data and maybe had some guesses, so what he said isnt trustworthy. So maybe it is 13.3 maybe it isnt, could be that some other source said it before him or he just made it up. And then he panicked and photoshopped that controller as last attempt.

People that thought he is "the real thing" must wonder that why would so believable person do so stupid mistake (photoshopped controller), but they are wrong because the whole TF-act were so obvious trolling from the beginning that doing stupid move like that isnt weird at all.

Basically morons whom didn't see the obvious bullshitting cant admit that they were wrong from the beginning, so instead they make up these theories how fake controller were his plan or whatever.

Same as women whom fall for the guy whom is 100% certainly an asshole and then still dont truly believe it afterwards, making up theories and excuses. While for smart and logical person who watched it, it is just clear continuum.

tldr
idiots see it as "he talked 95% truth and fake controller is 5% of lie, why?!!?"

smart people see it as "he talked shit from the beginning so no wonder he tried to fake the ds5"

 

[thelastword]

MS could overclock XSX GPU via a firmware update. It depends on the cooling solution's extra TDP headroom.

I don't think MS's chief problem now is a lack of TF, it's a lack of enough available Vram to devs…...I wager many devs wont even use the slower 3.5GB as it will complicate things for them, so you are looking at 10GB of optimal Vram here...…..It may be too late to upgrade Vram, but who knows, they've revealed very early and people always say they have lots of cash, so I can definitely foresee some tweaking, just like they did to XBONES in 2013.....We shall see,,,

 

[nosseman]

Sony are more powerful, that's why they've been quiet, they didn't want to give Microsoft time to respond.

13.3tf's RDNA2, more CU's at higher clocks and more RT Cores, 24gb of RAM (20 useable for games), CPU at 3.6hz 8c16t zen 2.

What if we end up with a situation where MS is 12,1 LOCKED (Remember when MS pushed several times in DF video that the clocks where locked and that it could do these clocks all day long) and Sony has 13,3 turbo - meaning it can reach 13,3tf but not all the time?

That is if they use the same APU, 52CU vs 52CU.

Then it become a question of cooling solutions and ambient temperature, if the console is well ventilated and so on.

 

[xool]

You probably wanted to say 390mm2 and 360mm2.

yep. thnks

 

[GymWolf]

Edit: I keep click this thread thinking it’s the other one, lol.

People are totally misunderstanding what the hardware is doing, so let me make this really simple for you.

You have two cups of water. One cup is your game, essentially everything you would render on a console right now. Another cup, is your ray traced stuff, this would be for anything that would require rays, be it ray traced contact shadows, Gi, reflections etc.

The general idea is that cup 1 is 12 tf and cup 2 is 13tf.

You render your game using the original 12tf, and can reach 12tf of performance this way, using everything EXCEPT DXR. This means you would have essentially 12tf of pure performance. THEN, on top of that, you have another 13tf of power devoted “solely” to DXR. This 13tf of power will NOT allow you to do more stuff the other could, so you won’t be rendering more models or textures or whatever. But it WILL allow you to render a theoretical 13tfs worth of DXR “stuff”.

So in short, the console is still 12tf, but it’s actual output is far greater if you’re using DXR, but ONLY for DXR related stuff. It’s not a 25tf console.

This is an annoying thing that should be cleared up.

The other thing I keep seeing already is that SSD game loading is soooooo slow, compared to Spidermans instant loading. Spiderman was a custom built game for that demo to show what could be done, state of decay 2 was essentially a “pop the disk in and see” video to show you the general speed increase that will happen to media UNPATCHED. It’s about as fair a comparison as two kettles, one of which is made from chocolate.

thanks for the explanation but wasn't this obivious from the df and other articles?
i mean i'm a fucking noob with technical stuff but i understood that the 13tf more were just for rtx stuff and the remains 12 for the other games related stuff.

do people really haven't understand that?
if that is the case i feel better about myself, i'm a little bit less noob today

i hope sony has a similar solution for rtx.

 

[saintjules]

I have the same question. Someone that knows how this works please reply. LOL

Disturbing Side Note: Would the jerks flooding my email with threats please stop. It's clear that someone viewing this site (this all started when OB and the others were razzing me when they thought I was trying to be an "insider" when I wasn't) has access to my Sony gaming profile. Someone has this evening said they were going to burn down my house (and gave an accurate address for where I used to live, luckily I hadn't updated my address on PS in a minute) and other such ridiculousness. Some individuals have even mentioned games that I own and specific achievements, etc. I've never associated my email or PSN ID with this NeoGaf account. Please stop, this is really troubling. I didn't even say anything anti-Sony today, and who cares if I did. Obviously, I have no information about MS or Sony, PLEASE stop the nonsense. I'll start turning this stuff over to the police if this nonsense continues. Sorry for the rant.

Make sure you report users. Only way mods will take action.

 

[CrashNBurn_281]

I don't think MS's chief problem now is a lack of TF, it's a lack of enough available Vram to devs…...I wager many devs wont even use the slower 3.5GB as it will complicate things for them, so you are looking at 10GB of optimal Vram here...…..It may be too late to upgrade Vram, but who knows, they've revealed very early and people always say they have lots of cash, so I can definitely foresee some tweaking, just like they did to XBONES in 2013.....We shall see,,,

Are you serious? They may not like the situation, but I do not see dev's saying screw it that ram is slower and a pain to work with, let's just let it run idle, even though we need it. : /

 

[ethomaz]

So MS calling RT can do additional 13TFs is like nVidia slide about RT Cores having a peak 23TFs in a 10TFs GPU?

That means RT Cores are at least twice faster/stronger than AMD solution?

 

[Moridianae]

Perchance Tommy was right and the goal was 13TF, but thermals have been a bit of an issue, so as of right now they are at 12.4TF according to Osiris.

They could just settle in on that figure, unless the tweaks and final dev kits aren't quite done(aren't final kits near May or so?) and they still plan to push for it.

Maybe they're waiting for confirmation on those IPs from Konami, as that is one MASSIVE megaton microphone drop no matter what specifications you end up with in the end

 

[Gavin Stevens]

thanks for the explanation but wasn't this obivious from the df and other articles?
i mean i'm a fucking noob with technical stuff but i understood that the 13tf more were just for rtx stuff and the remains 12 for the other games related stuff.

do people really haven't understand that?
if that is the case i feel better about myself, i'm a little bit less noob today

You’re in a thread with people panic posting about shit they have no understanding about. Like, no dev would use the “slower” ddr3 memory? Even though they have no clue as to why this is actually a good idea, seeing as some of your memory consumption is taken up by processes that don’t require speed as a priority, and in doing this you’re freeing up system resources to be used elsewhere (as opposed to using higher speed memory for lower system processes and wasting valuable cpu time).

So yeah, the basic stuff needs explaining sometimes, because some people are as thick as shit.

 

[xool]

Yes that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming. So basically using RT doesn't tax the 12tf gpu. That is great to know.

I'm 99% certain that the minecraft demo is a special case and only applies to voxel based games like minecraft, or Dragon Quest Builders

[Digital Foundry] Xbox Series X Complete Specs + Ray Tracing/Gears 5/Back-Compat/Quick Resume Demo Showcase!

Not this b.s. again. Consoles will never beat high end gaming computers. I understand clickbait titles gets clicks, which become revenue. But Jesus, this is so cringe to see people actually believing a $500 or $600 plastic box will beat high end desktop is not only absurd, but a pipe dream at...

www.neogaf.com

and 100% certain that turning on RT in other "normal" games eg Tomb Raider etc will come with a big performance hit

Only time will tell, but manage expectations ..

 

[Xyphie]

Some explaining needed for this pic (I know it's been enhanced etc)

Firstly the die size does seem to be 490mm2 (GDDR6 is 14x12mm) - but there are black bars on either side . effective calculated size is 460mm2 - checks out.

Now look at the Zen2 cores - my calculated size = 28mm2 each (wtf?) .. even if that is just the cores and not cache that's small Zen2 CCX size is supposed to be 74-80mm2 .. and even if those blank area between and below are cache they seem a little small - l2+l3 should be about the same size as the core . these look about 2/3 the size.

1. Cores are smaller becuase 7nm+
2. Probably cut down cache too.

Renoir cuts down the cache by 75% (from 16MB per CCX to 4MB) compared to desktop/server Zen 2, Xbox chip (we know Oberon already has 2x4MB L3) probably does the same thing, which results in 8-cores in ~<50mm2 rather than ~75mm2.

 

[Reindeer]

Perchance Tommy was right and the goal was 13TF, but thermals have been a bit of an issue, so as of right now they are at 12.4TF according to Osiris.

They could just settle in on that figure, unless the tweaks and final dev kits aren't quite done(aren't final kits near May or so?) and they still plan to push for it.

Maybe they're waiting for confirmation on those IPs from Konami, as that is one MASSIVE megaton microphone drop no matter what specifications you end up with in the end

Osiris was already wrong so I wouldn't really count on him when it comes to the exact number of tflops.

 

[lepermessiah]

I don't think MS's chief problem now is a lack of TF, it's a lack of enough available Vram to devs…...I wager many devs wont even use the slower 3.5GB as it will complicate things for them, so you are looking at 10GB of optimal Vram here...…..It may be too late to upgrade Vram, but who knows, they've revealed very early and people always say they have lots of cash, so I can definitely foresee some tweaking, just like they did to XBONES in 2013.....We shall see,,,

 

[gooner4life_uk]

What if we end up with a situation where MS is 12,1 LOCKED (Remember when MS pushed several times in DF video that the clocks where locked and that it could do these clocks all day long) and Sony has 13,3 turbo - meaning it can reach 13,3tf but not all the time?

That is if they use the same APU, 52CU vs 52CU.

Then it become a question of cooling solutions and ambient temperature, if the console is well ventilated and so on.

Clocks will be locked, they always are on consoles because they have to offer consistent performance, I don't know why MS or DF emphasised that at all, it's not new news.

 

[thelastword]

Are you serious? They may not like the situation, but I do not see dev's saying screw it that ram is slower and a pain to work with, let's just let it run idle, even though we need it. : /

I'm not saying they wont use it, just that quite a few devs won't...…..Just like many devs didn't bother to use the EDRAM properly on XBONES after a while, it becomes a headache.....I think lots on indies wont use it, and we can all attest to some bad ports this gen, some devs just wont bother to maximize all the hardware, especially if Series X does not fly off the shelves......

 

[gooner4life_uk]

I'm not saying they wont use it, just that quite a few devs won't...…..Just like many devs didn't bother to use the EDRAM properly on XBONES after a while, it becomes a headache.....I think lots on indies wont use it, and we can all attest to some bad ports this gen, some devs just wont bother to maximize all the hardware, especially if Series X does not fly off the shelves......

Microsoft will always find a way to gimp an elegant solution, especially around memory, AAA exclusives are Sony's thing, gimped Memory setup is Microsoft's.

 

[saintjules]

Gameplay Video from Gears 5 on Series X
4k Ultra PC Settings+
Contact Shadows
Screen Space Global Ilumination
50% higher particle count

Is the video output on YouTube only 1080p though?

 

[Insane Metal]

So MS calling RT can do additional 13TFs is like nVidia slide about RT Cores having a peak 23TFs in a 10TFs GPU?

That means RT Cores are at least twice faster/stronger than AMD solution?

Thanks for bringing this up, that's exactly what I was thinking. And if it is what we think... well, RT performance in XSX will be pretty shitty if on RTX cards they already suck.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Make sure you report users. Only way mods will take action.

I wouldn't know what user(s) here were doing it, or if it was just lurkers. But what I post here seems to trigger things for sure (sometimes specific lines are quoted in emails). Though I'm not sure what triggered this latest rush in the early AM yesterday, I really hadn't posted anything that could be construed as anti-Sony the day before. All I can say is that there are at least a few really disturbed Sony fans out there, why they care so much what some other random person on the internet thinks about next-gen is ridiculous. I've always posted a bit during the launch period, a little trolling, a little digging, a little arguing with members that I think know things (best way to trip them up and make them spill the tea in my experience), but I've never had this happen before. LOL

 

[quest]

So MS calling RT can do additional 13TFs is like nVidia slide about RT Cores having a peak 23TFs in a 10TFs GPU?

That means RT Cores are at least twice faster/stronger than AMD solution?

Considering AMD RT hardware only covers some parts of BHV intersection testing of course. The AMD solution was meant to have a extremely small footprint. The CUs will do the rest. It is a dip your toes in the water approach.

 

[JLB]

Mod of War would permaban every single user suggesting that DF is intentionally lying or making up stuff.
These kind of accusations are serious and should not be allowed. Acuse someone of corruption is no joke, and it would be strong evidence to suggest such thing.