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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
StreetsofBeige said:
LOL.

As I said in an old post probably 1-2 weeks ago.... I even typed a cheesy furniture salesman example trying to make a point..... I'd rather trust real data sheets over any people with their heresay, riddles and best of all.......... all the insiders even had different numbers.

But to be honest, you can't blame them too much.

For some people, the internet creates a need of attention. And they won't want to piss off people (gamers) by saying something is low or else they are going to get nailed to the cross and twitter bombed for 6 months.

That's why Schreier let loose his insider info of a weak PS this morning. I bet this guy knew since last year, but didn't want to ruffle feathers. But as soon as everyone found out Sony is doing a GDC spec reveal, then do it that morning as at worse he gets crucified for 3 hours.

And even if some of those "friends of insiders" knew, why would they tell anyone 10tf? He'll probably get grilled too if people found out. So say something like 12tf to get everyone off their backs.
Click to expand...

People are missing another factor: Insiders won't give detailed info usually because it's their jobs. If an "insider source" was saying as we keep hearing that both boxes perform pretty much the same, this might have been an educated guess even by the insider. Saying "It must be about 11 or 12 TF" considering the performance they're seeing. That kind of thing. Doesn't mean that people are "full of shit" just that they're reporting what they were told.

Again, if everyone would be happier with NO rumors or reports- just stony silence, well then don't go looking for early information and sit and wait for product reveals instead. You can't beg and beg for rumors and inside information and then just slam people because the reveals don't 100% back what they were saying.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
icerock said:
Cerny designed a $400 PS5 for 2019 (8TF imo), internally they had to delay it and in return launch simultaneously with Series X which resulted in hail-mary attempts with these clock speeds to boost compute power.

I don't think this is entirely on him.

Series X is comfortably ~18% faster.
Click to expand...
The 2019 release aligns with what I read elsewhere online from a dev back in 2017.
The release probably got delayed due to problems with BC.

The 18% difference on paper is not as bad as what happened the previous two generations. Still disappointing, but should still be ok during the first half of this gen.
 
joe_zazen

joe_zazen

Member
SlimySnake said:
Just thinking about this. Cerny fucked this up so much that he ended up proving VFXVeteran and Timdog right. He designed the console like these github truthers wanted him too. Narrow and fast and inefficient.

If that's not the most ironic display of incompetence i dont know what is.
Click to expand...

It looks like ps5 will consume more power, be hotter, and be noisier than xsx while having less power. If it was just a case of less power while consuming less energy and making less heat and being quieter, that would be fine. But it isnt.

i dont know how anyone can look at this and not see it as a cock up.
 
K

Kampfradler

Member
HeisenbergFX4 said:
Thats the thing its all about pricing those 2 systems.
Click to expand...

Kampfradler said:
Now the question is can the ps5 reach 12tf RDNA 2.0 and a decent cooling solution with its rumored BOM of around 450 ?
imho i dont see that coming ...

Xbox 12 tf RDNA 2.0 @ 549 or 599 $

PS5's BOM at around 450 (already including the increased cost of nand flash) tells me they were aiming at the 399 price point.

and at 399 i dont see 12tf RDNA 2.0 possible.
at 399$ a balanced 10 tf RDNA1.5 would be more realistic.

That would fit to sonys hide and see strategy at the moment; see how MS will price the Xbox and then undercut it as much as possible.

So im at:
599$ xbox @ 12tf RDNA 2.0
399 - 449$ ps5 @ 10tf RDNA 1.5

Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...

delete 1.5 and add 2.0

i was close enough :messenger_grinning:
 
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Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
Deeper Underground said:
Man hats off to the Xbox team and their fanboys. They managed to convince the world that having 12TF automatically means the system is better before we’ve even had a chance to see real world performance. This thread is embarrassing.
Click to expand...
What is embarrassing is comments such as yours. 12 tflop is more powerful than 10.28 (boost mode) tflops of the same architecture, plus higher clock CPU. This is basic math and you gotta be idiot to think other otherwise. And no, SSD isn't gonna suddenly make up all that difference. And nobody is saying that Sony might not have better games like this gen, but games on equal ground from third party are going to be better on X.
 
Hawking Radiation

Hawking Radiation

Member
The Mad Draklor said:
16% less teraflops. Whether that translates to 16% less power remains to be seen because clocking the GPU at higher frequencies also speeds up rasterization, and the L1/L2 caches, for instance. There's also the split RAM pool solution the XBX is going with. While 10GB of that RAM is faster than the PS5's RAM, the other 6GB is much slower. In addition, the PS5 uses a unified RAM pool with uniform speeds.

You haven't seen any comparison videos, so why are you making such early judgments without seeing anything? If we were to talk about a 16% difference in resolution, for instance, that is the difference between 2160p vs. 1800p. However, there are videos out there (like Hardware Unboxed) showing how 1800p upscaled to 4K with RIS looks very similar to native 4K.

And to add onto how your XB1 to PS4 comparison is flawed, the difference wasn't just in teraflops. The PS4 had twice the ROPs, the XB1 used DDR3 RAM and 32MB of esRAM, and the PS4's GPU had much greater GPGPU potential. The 40% teraflop difference was not completely responsible for the power disparity between those two consoles.
Click to expand...
You're not supposed to put out a well thought out informed post.
Maybe try a knee jerk approach like quite a few have done today?
 
CrustyBritches

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Insiders...
giphy.gif
 
F

Fortuneelsewhere

Member
SlimySnake said:
Just thinking about this. Cerny fucked this up so much that he ended up proving VFXVeteran and Timdog right. He designed the console like these github truthers wanted him too. Narrow and fast and inefficient.

If that's not the most ironic display of incompetence i dont know what is.
Click to expand...

My friend the problem here is the 399 price target... (there are no miracles) I’ll be shocked if they mark this any higher.. only hope for us is if they come along not that later with a Pro.. with no such price constrains..
 
S

Self High Five

Member
pasterpl said:
we know that there will not be full bc compatibility with ps4, there will be exclusives for xsex within first 12 months, comment about 2 years was made around 1 tear ago
Click to expand...

There is but they will run in legacy mode only. Only 100 or so games will have any advantage with the new hardware.

All Xbox One games, including enhanced will run at their maximum variable framerate/resolution. I don't know if I should be more impressed by MS or baffled by Sony. Probably both.
 
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Deeper Underground

Deeper Underground

Member
Reindeer said:
What is embarrassing is comments such as yours. 12 tflop is more powerful than 10.28 (boost mode) tflops of the same architecture, plus higher clock CPU. This is basic math and you gotta be idiot to think other otherwise. And no, SSD isn't gonna suddenly make up all that difference. And nobody is saying that Sony might not have better games like this gen, but games on equal ground from third party are going to be better on X.
Click to expand...

lol I love how you said 10.28 is boost mode. No, it’s not basic math, but I’m not going to sit here and argue with a fanboy who has an obvious agenda to push. Welcome to the ignore list.
 
Handy Fake

Handy Fake

Member
01011001 said:
no that was a fake leak. they use RDNA2 RT, amd even said they use their rt tech a while ago.
Click to expand...
To continue then, does the size of the CUs matter as much as the number?
He made a fairly big deal about them being larger - I'm don't know how this will translate to RT though.
 
Burrito Bandito

Burrito Bandito

Banned
Marlenus said:
So based on the DF reveal video we know that the Xbox Series X in a rushed port performs on par with a 2080 @ 4k Ultra. The PS5 is closer to a 5700XT so the Xbox SeX is around 20% faster in raw framerate + it has more RT performance and more CPU performance. That will mean slightly better visuals and more consistant frame rates if devs don't over do the graphical fidelity.

The SSD might make a differece in exclusives but the vast majority games are going to be designed with PC hardware in mind which is SATA 3 or PCIe 3 SSDs.

It won't be as bad as 900p vs 1080p like Xbox One vs PS4 but it could be closer to 4k medium vs 4k high instead.

Unless the PS5 is $100 + cheaper the Xbox SeX is the better buy from a purely hardware standpoint IMO. Obviously if youre favourite franchises are on the PS5 then that is what you will buy regardless and it is still a powerful console but the Xbox is more so.
Click to expand...

the visual differences will be seen mostly in ray tracing. it appears xbox’s RT should be pretty damn significantly better, considering the extra 16 cu’s. RT is something someone will notice instantly when looking at it, certainly more noticeable than 900 v 1080 p. top that off with the extra 2-3 tflops of image fidelity. it could actually surpass xb1 v ps4. Keep in mine that in the real world, PS5 is a 9.2tflop console more than likely
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Actually that's a good point; they definitely flexed on the SSD, I figure they'd do the same with memory if they had an advantage. I think it'll have some advantages if it's 16 GB @ 448 GB/s (or even 512 GB/s, tho the GPU clocks make it seem it's more at 448 GB/s), maybe not enough to flex tho.

SSD will help in a lot of things especially as memory-mapped virtual cache but it is still limited by NAND tech same as XSX's. The decompression hardware helps with the latency but still, it won't be an exact replacement or supplement for RAM, that's just not what NAND was built for. And if they had some persistent RAM there as a cache I definitely feel it would've been mentioned.

Hopefully there's clarification on the clocks for the GPU; right now it feels like base clock could be 9.2 TF after all and for games that need the extra performance it can boost up to 10.28 TF. Still amazed with the high clocks, RDNA2 efficiency is no joke.



Pretty accurate, except two things maybe. I think Matt Booty's exclusives comment was made at E3 2019 (remember E3? xD), and applicable for 2019 and 2020. So I think we'll start seeing them in 2021, in the back half.

Also pricing; it SOUNDS like Lockhart might be happening after all? Dunno I'm listening to a stream RN and they just mentioned something about MS revealing the Lockhart soon. Anyway, I think PS5 will be either $399 or $450, and I can't see XSX being above $500. But maybe that depends on Lockhart (which I still hope isn't launching this year).
Click to expand...

Yeah I assume it’ll be $400 vs $500 both sold at a small loss initially. But I wanted to include a range because maybe Sony is gonna be dumb and set it at $500 to make money at launch, while Microsoft I suspect will be $500 regardless (but at a loss just like the One X was).

The comment on exclusives was about next gen vs current gen, and he said 1-2 years. I’m guessing Hellblade 2 will be the 1st big exclusive not on Xbox One. But the next gen doesn’t start until 2020 so I don’t think you’ll see New Xbox exclusives until ealry 2022. Maybe, holiday 2021 but I doubt it.

And I assume Lockhart is fall 2021. $300.
 
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Joey.

Joey.

Member
So what I've gathered from this presentation....

Xbox were loud because they knew & Sony were silent because they were stunned.
The insiders on this forum are...….frauds? Interested in their excuses if they even come back.
GitHub was correct?

I still think PS5 has a chance this gen because of their games. We'll have to wait and see.
But a lot of people are eating crow right now. Or at least they should.
 
B

Bladed Thesis

Member
B_Boss said:
Why though lol? Hype train doesn’t necessarily mean that those members assumed that the PS5 would be the technically more powerful console (I sure as hell would never make such an assumption unless it was officially stated by Sony in this case and I’d wager some members on the train did assume as such) but just excitement for their console of choice, regardless of its strengths and weaknesses.
Click to expand...
While I agree with you in theory, the downplaying of the XSX reveal from those people who with "just excitement for their console of choice" is a bit disingenuous. Even that hype thread was full of shitty on Xbox. As were a lot of threads. They can take it on the chin like adults.
 
Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
Self High Five said:
There is but they will run in legacy mode only. Only 100 or so games will have any advantage with the new hardware.

All Xbox One games, including enhanced will run at their maximum variable framerate/resolution. I don't know if I should be more impressed by MS or baffled by Sony. Probably both.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Microsoft is adding automatic HDR to BC games. Microsoft is just light years ahead of Sony when it comes to BC.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Hey any technical gurus out there aka computer nerds? Given psv lower CU count but higher speeds as compared to Xbox how would tht play out in real world performance? I know higher clock speeds have a negative connotation due to running hot but is there a circumstance with the supposed great cooling mitigating the heat that this can punch above (in real world performance) or is it seen as worse then nextbox higher CU count and slower?
 
Burrito Bandito

Burrito Bandito

Banned
psorcerer said:
1. SSD is there to pus technology forward. Make the generational leap people want.
2. CU is the same because of your whiny shits that whine night and day about their whiny backward compatibility.
Click to expand...

1. their ssd will only be marginally quicker in loading games compared to MS’ ssd. we are talking fractions of seconds. not worth it

2. the CU is 36 because sony wanted a cheaper console, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. MS is doing even better with backwards compat and didnt have to sacrifice CUs
 
Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
Deeper Underground said:
lol I love how you said 10.28 is boost mode. No, it’s not basic math, but I’m not going to sit here and argue with a fanboy who has an obvious agenda to push. Welcome to the ignore list.
Click to expand...
Lmao, I didn't originally say it's boost mode, Eurogamer did an article on this. You can ignore me all guy want, but facts will remain facts. Keep staying ignorant.
 
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Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
Self High Five said:
There is but they will run in legacy mode only. Only 100 or so games will have any advantage with the new hardware.

All Xbox One games, including enhanced will run at their maximum variable framerate/resolution. I don't know if I should be more impressed by MS or baffled by Sony. Probably both.
Click to expand...

Is the "full PS4 BC" thing confirmed? When I read the PS Blog, it made it sound like only the top 100 most played games are targeted to work at all
 
icerock

icerock

Member
joe_zazen said:
It looks like ps5 will consume more power, be hotter, and be noisier than xsx while having less power. If it was just a case of less power while consuming less energy and making less heat and being quieter, that would be fine. But it isnt.

i dont know how anyone can look at this and not see it as a cock up.
Click to expand...

Of course, it is a cock up.

Efficiency is the mantra/bedrock for consoles, PS5 has thrown it for a toss to chase more performance. I need hands-on preview for this thing, need to know how hot and loud it runs.

alcapwne1 said:
This so much. Why the overkill ssd? Why did the Cu count stay the same? Bad design decisions, that i dont get.
Click to expand...

Different design goals, SSD was a big deal for Sony, GPU for MS.

CU count stayed the same because imo, PS5 was supposed to come out in Holiday 2019. It would be a ~8TF console, but internally things were delayed and they had to launch simultaneously with Xbox. With not enough time to re-design the APU, they boosted the clocks to the absolute threshold. This PS5 seems a frankenstein version of an SKU between 2019 and 2020 lol

Burrito Bandito said:
the visual differences will be seen mostly in ray tracing. it appears xbox’s RT should be pretty damn significantly better, considering the extra 16 cu’s. RT is something someone will notice instantly when looking at it, certainly more noticeable than 900 v 1080 p. top that off with the extra 2-3 tflops of image fidelity. it could actually surpass xb1 v ps4. Keep in mine that in the real world, PS5 is a 9.2tflop console more than likely
Click to expand...

Let's reserve judgment on AMD RT, we don't know how big a factor CU count will play, or how much of dis-advantage can be offset by higher clocks.
 
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Deeper Underground

Deeper Underground

Member
.winter said:
Sony really fucked this up this time. Fuck faster SSD. It will give you 6 sec instead of 5 sec on x series. But the gpu is much slower.

X series will be my first xbox ever. Sony really disappointed me this time.
Click to expand...

lol Fuck something that you have no clue how it works in real world performance? Timdog is this your burner account?
 
Hawking Radiation

Hawking Radiation

Member
Bladed Thesis said:
Because the entire gaming world is starved for PS5 info and this is the first info to come out.

Horribly managed PR from Sony.
Click to expand...
Exactly the way I feel.

I watched the whole thing and saw the specs but i was waiting to see practical examples of what it all meant and then...NOTHING.

No game demos or showcase of what all this meant.

For going on 4 months now radio silence and then some numbers are thrown at us with nothing to back it up. I mean I didnt expect E3 but the least they could have done was shown even a current gen games load speeds compared to PS4...at the least.

Now its going to be another few month os radio silence. Its frustrating and it makes me wonder what exactly the new leadership is trying to pull here.
 
Md Ray

Md Ray

Member
M1chl said:
So they might be licencing their technology then. Or Sony planning some other markets? I mean for controllers, memories are going to be from big manufactuers, it's not necessary to do that yourself.
Click to expand...
No, it's not licensing or anything. For PS4's GPU, Sony took AMD's existing Radeon HD 7870 PC GPU which had only 2 ACEs (Asynchronous Compute Engines) and added 4x more ACEs for a total of 8 ACEs for their PS4. And this same amount of 8 ACEs later got incorporated into AMD's PC GPUs (R9 290 series) later that year in 2013.
 
Zzpaff

Zzpaff

Member
the strangest thing is that you didn't have to be a genius to know where microsoft was going to go after one x ....


36
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Md Ray said:
No, it's not licensing or anything. For PS4's GPU, Sony took AMD's existing Radeon HD 7870 PC GPU which had only 2 ACEs (Asynchronous Compute Engines) and added 4x more ACEs for a total of 8 ACEs for their PS4. And this same amount of 8 ACEs later got incorporated into AMD's PC GPUs (R9 290 series) later that year in 2013.
Click to expand...
I meant SSD technology.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
joe_zazen said:
It looks like ps5 will consume more power, be hotter, and be noisier than xsx while having less power. If it was just a case of less power while consuming less energy and making less heat and being quieter, that would be fine. But it isnt.

i dont know how anyone can look at this and not see it as a cock up.
Click to expand...
yep. this is like when hilary lost to trump lmfao.

like how do you fuck that up.
 
P

psorcerer

Banned
Burrito Bandito said:
1. their ssd will only be marginally quicker in loading games compared to MS’ ssd. we are talking fractions of seconds. not worth it

2. the CU is 36 because sony wanted a cheaper console, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. MS is doing even better with backwards compat and didnt have to sacrifice CUs
Click to expand...

1. No. Their SSD is in the ballpack of DDR3 RAM for random access operations. Think of it as 800Gb of slow RAM.
2. No. You don't understand how BC is achieved in both consoles.
PS5 has to have full hardware BC, because it allowed developers to use low level APIs in PS4. Hence 36 CUs.
MSFT never allowed any low level access, that's why Xone was so underpowered last gen, but that's why they also do not need to have any HW BC this gen.
You're welcome.
 
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