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[Null_Key]

Just imagine what The Show will look like on that XsX power

Yeah but since it's coming from Sony, what happens if the batters are holding Dildo's and pitchers are throwing butt plugs? Sony has no prerogative to optimize it over PS5. Not saying they won't just food for thought.

 

[CJY]

Yeah it means they're running upclocked until the thermal sensors start flashing red, then they back off the clocks a bit so it doesn't overheat

.. literally

That is literally the opposite of what it says in the article.

Traditional CPUs on PC do this, not PS5's boost.

 

[DaMonsta]

So what happened?

I know a lot of people like to call Mark Cerny a “genius” on here.

How’d he mess up this bad?

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

I think it's obvious Sony is stuck with a design intended for 2019. It would have been a beast during the holiday 2019 season. It will hold it's own up-clocked,. It's good enough until the pro arrives.

 

[hussar16]

im disappointed in sony ,theyr system looks about 20% weaker, most games probably wont do 4k native,which is a joke as its a console meant for over 5 years and many ppl have 4k tvs, I might have to go with xbox this gen if they don't announce ps2 backwards compatibility with 4k resolution ,xbox has way more incentives from the outset tbh with upscaled and upgraded old games ,sony doesn't seem to care to give us choice but push their blurry ps now service

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

Concerning PS5 BC:

PushSquare: PS5's BC has fans baffled:


TechRadar: PS5 will be BC with "almost" all the PS4's best games:


Kotaku: PS5's BC Won't arrive all at once:


Polygon: PS5 will be backward-compatible with ‘almost all’ top 100 PS4 games at launch


I know how I understood this: That at this point they're at almost 100 games for PS4 BC, but this is a very important subject. Most had assumed it would be BC with all PS4 games by virtue of the 36CU, if not with all PlayStation titles going back to PS1. Hopefully they will clarify to these news outlets, or on Twitter soon.

This is a mess.. how Sony drop the ball this bad? First was PS4 Pro but they have the excuse of mid gen refresh and I understood that.. but now for an all new system going with 36CUs, boost clocks and half assed BC? I really hope to be missing something and hope Sony proves me wrong because as of now this really just looks like a mess..

 

[Reindeer]

So what happened?

I know a lot of people like to call Mark Cerny a “genius” on here.

How’d he mess up this bad?

Didn't have to be all his fault, Sony could have just told him to operate within a certain budget and he did his best with money given.

 

[TLZ]

Well well well, looks like HeisenbergFX4 OsirisBlack Gavin Stevens were all wrong? WOW!!

Jason's "aiming to beat 10.7 TFs" was kinda wrong for PS5.
Kleegamefan was wrong as well.
VFX Veteran was wrong as well.

WTF happened LMAO!!
It seems like Sony was really secretive, but hey whatever, we sure had fun talking and nagging and had fun in the end.

Also @thicc_girls_are_teh_best was right when he said GitHub has something to it, your profile picture though LOL!!

My 14tf hope down the drain

 

[demigod]

People saying PS5 is for 2019 and XboxSX is built for the future are silly. Give it another 7 years and we may well be close to 100TF GPUs in consoles. Fact is, in today's society, hardly any tech is future-proof.

Price vs Performance is what matters most in a console and hitting maximum performance within their desired target price. Not raw performance. It has never been about raw performance.

The one time Sony went for raw power, they ended up with PS3.

Literally all Sony have to do is wait for Xbox to reveal their price and undercut them. They are almost guaranteed to win.

Granted, Xbox SX might come in at $399, then Sony might be in trouble. Point is, price is probably the single most important thing for a mass-market console and Sony knows this better than anyone. MS probably also know this and are not interested in eating massive losses so they went with more power.

I can definitely see Xbox SX being $499 and PS5 being $399. That's a 25% price delta for an ~18% GPU performance delta.

Sony should pull an AMD. Price the console at $449. XSX comes out at $449. BAM! Sony drops the price to $399.

 

[Darius87]

Smaller 256-Bit BUS, slower memory, high hertz is variable and will be peak and not sustainable.

what do you mean by not sustainable? because it is sustainable if needed, it depends on workload and cooling capacity and also capped at 2223mhz.

 

[POak]

It has been said that developers in general consider the PS5 to be more powerful than its rival - Jason Schreier even stated that some considered this to be the most revolutionary console of the past 20 years, but don't quote me on that because I may be misquoting him.

Since this was supposed to be shown at GDC, an event for developers and stakeholders, could any developers in this thread explain how the PS5 might have an edge over the Xbox, and what would merit Jason Schreier's and other developers' overall sentiment?

Xbox seems more powerful, and future-proof, to be quite honest.

Can anyone give an in-depth answer to this question, at this time? Thank you, genuinely curious as to what justified Jason Schreier's and some developer's quotes on PS5's power.

 

[Spreewaldgurke]

I think the Pro is coming way earlier this time to be on par with XSX

 

[Prophet33]

Jiggle physics will b outstanding next gen. Mark my words

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They gave aways 2 teraflops for 20 bucks. Their SOC choice is so retarded. Why would they do it? For backwards compatibility?

That 5.5 gb/s SSD drive cost a fortune. Considering how much time and effort Cerny talked about it, it seems their biggest priority in PS5 specs was the SSD.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Concerning PS5 BC:

PushSquare: PS5's BC has fans baffled:


TechRadar: PS5 will be BC with "almost" all the PS4's best games:


Kotaku: PS5's BC Won't arrive all at once:


Polygon: PS5 will be backward-compatible with ‘almost all’ top 100 PS4 games at launch:


Wired: Sony Details PlayStation 5 Specs and Backward Compatibility:


I know how I understood this: That at this point they're at almost 100 games for PS4 BC, but this is a very important subject. Most had assumed it would be BC with all PS4 games by virtue of the 36CU, if not with all PlayStation titles going back to PS1. Hopefully they will clarify to these news outlets, or on Twitter soon.

This is what I don’t understand. It seems like they went the 36 CU route for BC and to include the SSD IO/SRAM chip on the SOC.

If they can’t nail down BC for PS4 (let alone the top 100), then that’s going to come down as a huge mistake on Sony’s part IF these two consoles are the same price.

All things considered I’m very disappointed with how PS5 has been unveiled so far.

 

[sonomamashine]

I think people don't realise that performance scales better with higher clocks than more CUs. That's what Cerny was also explaining.

I think you didn't realize that it was a late decision clock boost to sit in a double digit TF count, 9TF vs 12 TF looks deadly, that's what cerny was explaining.
When you see clock MAY VARY it means something fishy.
(No console war/no fanboyism)

 

[CatLady]

Honestly even if the insiders got PS5 specs wrong (except regarding SSD where they were all saying PS5's was faster and now that's confirmed), I can't see why anyone wants to hate on them. Even Tommy, who (if he was an insider) was probably a MS employee in some capacity seeing how they only got the XSX stuff right.

I feel bad for the people who were clinging heavily to a 13TF/14TF/15TF PS5 tho; those just weren't realistic expectations @ $499 with a faster SSD solution paired with that too. And gotta admit I feel bad for the people who kept trying to 100% disregard the Github info and testing data being completely irrelevant; final active CUs and clocks may've been off in that stuff but other than that almost everything else was right (also kind of affirms the RDNA1/Navi10 listing for Oberon was Ariel iGPU testing profile after all).

Still very happy with both systems and really excited how their unique quirks will be exploited by upcoming games.



Damn dude that's terrible to hear. I hope you get better man really do. Just rest easy for now and try some breathing exercises if you can.

Spoiler

I think governments should be liable to a lawsuit by citizens for letting this virus spread the way they have

Spoiler

.
Take care in the meantime man and heal up back to 100% very soon, you've got our support!

I think Gavin Stevens , OsirisBlack , BGs and probably some I'm forgetting were legit and honest and just maybe got some bad info or miscommunication and HeisenbergFX4 's SIE source was pretty much on the money with 10.5 for the PS5 with the XsX having the power advantage.

Tommy Fisher I have NO respect for. He is either an attention whore trolling everyone or a Microsoft astroturfer deliberately conning PS fans - neither scenario is acceptable to me.

But I have little sympathy for those on the 13-15 TF hype train who got taken in. They refused to hear anything or accept any insiders that didn't paint the PS5 as superior. The better the PS specs anyone claimed the the more credence they gave them. They refused to hear ANYTHING about GitHub and harassed the hell out of anyone that claimed Oberon was the PS5

 

[Wandering Leopard]

I'm not a developer by any means but from the presentation, and in terms of the GPU and SSD, Sony focused on:
1. Game data
1.1 How fast can devs put game data on the screen
1.2 And then how fast can devs remove redundant data from the screen

2. How quickly can devs get up to speed with the system.

I'm curious how much game data each respective console can push out on screen at any one time.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Strange coming from you since you've been so engaged in these teraflop discussions.

I said many times I didnt want to put a number on it.

I kept repeating the XsX would be more powerful I just missed the 10% or so.

 

[Null_Key]

There are much less differences than a PS4 pro and an Xbox one x

PS5
RAM 16GB GDDR6 RAM
Memory Bandwidth 16GB 448GB/s
CPU 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5HGz
GPU 10.28 Teraflops, 36 CUs at 2.23GHz
Video Output 4K, 120hz refresh rate, 8K Support
Data Transfer Speed 5.5GB/S (Raw), 9GB/S (Compressed)
Storage Custom 825GB SSD Storage Drive

Xbox s X

16 GB GDDR6 RAM
10GB at 560GB/s, 6GB at 335GB/s
8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.8GHz (3.6GHz with SMT)
12 Teraflops, 52 CUs at 1.825GHz
native 4K, 8K Support, Up to 120hz
2.4gB/s (Raw), 4.8GB/s (Compressed)
1 TB NVMe SSD Storage Drive

Didn't know Xbox SX has rams with different speed, this could be problematic over a one speed unified memory approach. Still Xbox specs still packs a punch, and PS5 has plenty to offer, interested in seeing gameplays from both. Day one for both. Need to carry extra hand sanitizer and masks for the launch.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

I think people don't realise that performance scales better with higher clocks than more CUs. That's what Cerny was also explaining.

dude that was cope. clearly it was always 9.2 and they added in this nonsense of variable clocks so that they could claim 10.3.

Ps5s 36cu at 2.2ghz is in no way on the level of 12tflop 52cu at 1.8

 

[MadAnon]

no practicaly higher cu count has better performance what cerny said that it's easier to utilize less cu's to full potential and clocking higher also gives advantage to other gpu parts.

2 GPUs with same theoretical TFs. One has less CUs but higher clocks, other has more CUs but lower clocks. 1st GPU would perform better.

 

[Mr Moose]

I think the Pro is coming way earlier this time to be on par with XSX

It's not that far ahead that they would need a "pro" SKU.
I'd expect them (including Xbox if they do a Pro type version) to be a fair bit higher than 12.1TF.

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

Not a fan of Cerny saying we had the option of going with more CUs. Even 4 more CUs would have got the system to 11 teraflops.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

That is literally the opposite of what it says in the article.

Traditional CPUs on PC do this, not PS5's boost.

Why is it variable then?

 

[chilichote]

Admittedly, I am a little amazed and a little concerned about the high clock frequency. For me, Cerny's explanation sounded more like damage control.

Nevertheless, I am not disappointed. I was expecting Sony to launch the PS5 and the Pro in parallel, and under these circumstances I would have estimated the PS5 at 8.5 - 9.5 TF - and bought it! The Pro was never on my note.

But what really disappointed me is that I can't take my entire PS4 library to the PS5. THAT is important to me and should be a matter of course these days!

 

[Thedtrain]

The only thing I’m upset about is Colbert being correct. He’s such a goober

 

[Reindeer]

I think the Pro is coming way earlier this time to be on par with XSX

There's no need, we not dealing with 900p blurry image quality here, the difference at higher resolutions won't be significant enough for Sony to panic. There shouldn't be too much difference beyond resolution and quality of Ray Tracing. PS5 should be fine for at least 3 years.

 

[Salmon Snake]

I think Sony will just advertise PS Now for the solution for backwards compability for games beyond PS4 generation.

I'm really envious for Xbox's solution. It's just awesome that older games play better with better framerate and resolution. Besides it's just ridiculous that for example you can play MGS 2 and 3 on Xbox, but not on PS4. Plus the auto HDR for older games is cool as hell!

 

[TLZ]

Concerning PS5 BC:

PushSquare: PS5's BC has fans baffled:


TechRadar: PS5 will be BC with "almost" all the PS4's best games:


Kotaku: PS5's BC Won't arrive all at once:


Polygon: PS5 will be backward-compatible with ‘almost all’ top 100 PS4 games at launch:


Wired: Sony Details PlayStation 5 Specs and Backward Compatibility:


I know how I understood this: That at this point they're at almost 100 games for PS4 BC, but this is a very important subject. Most had assumed it would be BC with all PS4 games by virtue of the 36CU, if not with all PlayStation titles going back to PS1. Hopefully they will clarify to these news outlets, or on Twitter soon.

That's not how I understood it. I understood it'll be BC with all, and they worked hard with AMD to achieve 100% BC with Pro and PS4. But as usual because of much higher frequencies, there might be some little hiccups here and there, like Pro's Boost mode for PS4. And so far they've tested the top 100 games and have had 0 issues. So that's a great sign.

 

[Fake]

SonGoku check the second post of this thread. I guess you will keep up just by there.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

The problem with this presentation is that it's way too technical.

My take from this.
I expect this SPU thing to be a big one. Not only it opens way for PS3 backward compartibility, it solves some known bottlenecks. Physics, AI, sound processing should be naturally a GPU task because it's a bunch of SIMD (RFFT/FFT, Matrix multiplication etc) - and they all suffer from the same problem - GPU wavefront is just too big. You can't allocate 60-wide wavefront to multiply 2 or 3 vectors, it's a big waste of resources. You want something that as focused on SIMD as big GPU, just on lesser, granular scale to solve these tasks.

I get it that some people are not so familiar with dry technical talk and now they are disappointed but we have to keep in mind that this was a GDC presentation and not a PlayStation Meeting.

 

[Md Ray]

Because they were misleading us to think that PS5 was more than it is, there was even one dev who brushed Xbox aside and said he's more excited for PS5.

PS5 has amazing specs, what's wrong in being excited for a developer friendly machine? There's no need to be so mad about that.

 

[TLZ]

SonGoku check the second post of this thread. I guess you will keep up just by there.

He's alive?????

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I think the Pro is coming way earlier this time to be on par with XSX

If you think a Pro is needed for that than do the math again. PS5 Pro will be at least 2x PS5, SeX can't even dream that power.

 

[Md Ray]

So what happened?

I know a lot of people like to call Mark Cerny a “genius” on here.

How’d he mess up this bad?

He didn't mess up anything.

 

[CJY]

Why is it variable then?

It's variable because it makes no sense to have them not variable. The clocks are based on the workload. PS5 does not throttle down the clockspeed based on core temps. That's what normal boost modes do on PC. Why would you have fixed clock speeds? What if you're running an indie game that doesn't require such high clock speeds?

Every GPU & CPU has variable clock speeds, to have a fixed clock speed seems stupid IMO and judging by the way it's worded from DF, sounds purely reactionary to what Sony had in the pipeline.

 

[HawarMiran]

So what happened?

I know a lot of people like to call Mark Cerny a “genius” on here.

How’d he mess up this bad?

Ask the question after the generation is over.

 

[sonomamashine]

Lol at one point when cerny was talking about 36CU's and BC i thought wait it can't be, they gonna drop Dual APU anytime now , well 36CU's it is.

 

[Reindeer]

I think Sony will just advertise PS Now for the solution for backwards compability for games beyond PS4 generation.

I'm really envious for Xbox's solution. It's just awesome that older games play better with better framerate and resolution. Besides it's just ridiculous that for example you can play MGS 2 and 3 on Xbox, but not on PS4. Plus the auto HDR for older games is cool as hell!

Don't forget past Xbox games will automatically upscale to 4K. Sony had a long time to invest in BC and build a team for this purpose, but I think they're being arrogant in this regard and don't see BC as being highly important.

 

[Mod of War]

Welcome back SonGoku

Everyone else in here, a reminder to keep it civil and dial it back on the insults, and don’t take personal offense for criticisms towards your favorite brands.

 

[Null_Key]

I wonder what the extra space on the slide in bc is for

 

[LED Guy?]

What tells me about Kleegamefan, O'dium and OsirisBlack and their stated numbers is that MAYBE the dev kits of PS5 were more than 12 TeraFlops, that's the only explanation of why they were saying nmbers that were really off the mark with 10.3 TFs to be honest with you guys.

Maybe the PS5's dev kits were more powerful than XSX, because this is what Klee even said, he said that these are dev kit numbers, retail might change.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I think the Pro is coming way earlier this time to be on par with XSX

Microsoft releases a new console a year later, as they did with the One X. So what then?

And no mid gen refresh will fix this, since the Pro woud have to run games made for the PS5. One X and PS4 Pro are extremely under tapped because of this.

 

[Kacho]

Y’all are freaking out about a 15% difference

one which many not even be as high since higher clocks improve performance outside of TFlops

T-t-tatters BRUH

 

[DaMonsta]

He didn't mess up anything.

Xbox is better in every way hardware wise.

Even the idea that they couldn’t get BC working 100% seems like a misstep.

It’s clearly technically possible while also making a generational leap in hardware power.

Mark Cerny being a genius seems he would have been able to have a better showing than this.

 

[Reindeer]

PS5 has amazing specs, what's wrong in being excited for a developer friendly machine? There's no need to be so mad about that.

Most Exciting Console In 20 Years? Give me a break.

 

[HawarMiran]

Lol at one point when cerny was talking about 36CU's and BC i thought wait it can't be, they gonna drop Dual APU anytime now , well 36CU's it is.

hahah I thought the same

 

[MadAnon]

dude that was cope. clearly it was always 9.2 and they added in this nonsense of variable clocks so that they could claim 10.3.

Ps5s 36cu at 2.2ghz is in no way on the level of 12tflop 52cu at 1.8

That's not even what I meant. I'm talking about performance scaling.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Mod of War I am here and at your mercy, proceed with my flogging as you desire.