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[LordOfChaos]

1) Check first pages of this thread, expectations were around Vega56-64 levels (with weaker TFLops). PS5 is by no means underwhelming
2) It's Microsoft which went bananas with spec wars, Sony didn't do anything wrong.
3) Show me the price on XSeX. The need to roll out Lockhart is not a good sign.

Cheaper + SSD advantage + full BC and I wouldn't care too much about the power difference, plus there's likely more architecture from both that will be revealed over time

It's them bungling up that third item that bugs me. PS4's momentum should have been a huge tailwind and they only half put up the sail.

 

[bitbydeath]

Due to various problems I have not been able to see the video until now. I just saw it and ... They haven't revealed anything else? Really?

I have not read any comments yet and I may be mistaken, I have started to write (later or tomorrow with more time I will look at all the messages I can). Now I just want to express my outrage.

On the one hand, personally I think that, seeing how the video has been, I am sure that many users on the planet do not know what they have seen. And that is Sony's mistake. And that frustrates me.

In my opinion Sony is not presenting PS5 properly. They have in their hands a totally balanced system, without bottlenecks, efficient and very fast. They are "selling" very well the console to developers (but now, this is totally unnecessary). But they are selling it very badly to users, in my opinion.

I can understand that they want to take advantage of the GDC presentation but, with all that is happening, I think it would have been more appropriate to complete the presentation with more relevant information for the user.

Honestly, I understand that the traditional user may feel disappointed with what happened today, even I expected more content.

As for the power, I was clear, but I was expecting a clearer and more extensive explanation (with comparisons) about the true performance of the entire system, which is what ultimately matters and what this console especially stands out for.

Furthermore, it is clearly a fairly short and somewhat "incomplete" presentation, even for developers. What I don't understand is why?

But hey, Sony is Sony, it is their product, and they will know what they are doing and why. Tomorrow, cold, I will analyze it better. At the moment he seems to be playing an absurd game.

Well, don't despair much and good night.

Can you explain the implications of it?

I understand they have an ultrafast SSD and have implemented a chip that functions to remove the bottlenecks of the SSD and Cerny mentioned things like due to the speed they can stream everything in instantly as you move in the game and everything running hotter meaning better performance but I wasn’t sure how that translates.

Does that mean less GPU power is required to perform the same actions? Is that it or is there something else/more?

 

[Md Ray]

And fake insiders said both machines are very close.

They are close in terms of GPU, memory bandwidth. More so than PS4, Xbox One and PS4 Pro, Xbox One X. About 25%.
PS4 to Xbox One was 40%
PS4 Pro to Xbox One X was, even more, 50%. This is TF and memory b/w.

SSD is where there's a massive difference and it's where PS5 and XSX differ.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Y’all are freaking out about a 15% difference

one which many not even be as high since higher clocks improve performance outside of TFlops

 

[Reindeer]

So its 36CU (PS5) vs 54CU (Series X)

Can anyone tell me how this translates to games?

Will this be an massive advantage to Series X ?

Around 20% overall and 40% in Ray Tracing (according to Rogame).

 

[Jimmyisback]

So its 36CU (PS5) vs 54CU (Series X)

Can anyone tell me how this translates to games?

Will this be an massive advantage to Series X ?

Everything is just better with more CUs. The Ray tracing is better, graphics, performance. The system doesn't need to run as fast. Stays cooler, more quiet. Lots of overhead to play with in the future etc.

 

[xool]

[..]

My biggest disappointment so far is ram volume and bandwidth

Yeah . I like the XboxX specs but 20GB and a 0.2 GHz higher ram clock [I mean +2Gbps data rate] would have been my dream

 

[dangopee]

But the consoles don't have the same TFlops. If they had the same ratio of shaders to rops to RT units to tmus and all the other functional part I would expect your theoretical parts to have similar performance with some games preferring the wider architecture and others preferring the higher clock speed architecture depending on what bottlenecks they tend to trigger.

I'm not talking about the consoles. I'm talking about narrow-and-fast vs wide-and-slow. For any given X number of TFLOPS, achieving it with a narrower, higher clocked architecture (if physically possible and practical) is ideal.

A single threaded Intel Pentium 4 (Prescott) running at 2.8GHz has about 5.6 GFLOPS. If it were physically possible to overclock that thing at 100 terahertz, and paired with similarly fantastical memory, it would have 200 TFLOPS of compute power and developers would not have to worry about vectoring/parallelizing/multithreading any of their algorithms or any of the overhead that comes with doing so. It could easily software render any modern game at max settings probably at thousands of FPS. There would be no need for massively parallel GPGPUs or multi-core CPUs.

 

[Reindeer]

Everything is just better with more CUs. The Ray tracing is better, graphics, performance. The system doesn't need to run as fast. Stays cooler, more quiet. Lots of overhead to play with in the future etc.

Mark Cerny loves jet engine noise it seems

 

[Okami Haundo]

I get that Sony's SSD tech is super impressive, but I do have to wonder how many third party devs will really take advantage of it. Are SSD's available that reach those speeds right now? If so, are they even remotely close to being widely adopted?

 

[DeeDogg_]

Got banned for using the term “bimbo” to describe a female streamer who joked about spreading the coronavirus to others on Twitch.
Ban duration is til April fucking 1st...

Era is retarded. Surely doesn’t have to do anything with me calling out the fanboys tryna defend today’s awful presentation..

 

[Mr Moose]

One thing that amazed me about the reveal was 2.2GHz .. is that safe for a console with a 5 year life span - how many are just going to cook 1 month after the warranty runs out etc ??

I think the highest estimate on this forum was 2.1 on the new node. 2.2+ is nuts

Still don't really know how 7nm + performs

Yeah that shit is insane, they must have good cooling (which hopefully means quiet lol) in it.

 

[Aceofspades]

Y’all are freaking out about a 15% difference

one which many not even be as high since higher clocks improve performance outside of TFlops

True, but you know nerds overreactions are common every gen since NES era or before that

 

[Apollo Helios]

Has anyone not see 62% bigger CUs > 36 PS5 CUs = 58 PS4 CUs
those compute units are HUGE
and it is heavily customized and running at unheard of 2,2 GHz which will increase its bandwidth so much that it will have better RT performance or quality for same perf, no matter what Tflops number is thrown around.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Not gonna lie fellas, Sony's taken a shot across the bow. I think there's more to play out, as usual the games will decide.

Need to know more of the individual intricacies. Still a Sony customer first but MS has given me something to think about.

If Sony still has a favorable First Party and Price Point, I don’t see why anything changes. Xbox already had the more powerful console (One X). Still outsold by Sony and Nintendo.

 

[Stuart360]

One thing that amazed me about the reveal was 2.2GHz .. is that safe for a console with a 5 year life span - how many are just going to cook 1 month after the warranty runs out etc ??

I think the highest estimate on this forum was 2.1 on the new node. 2.2+ is nuts

Still don't really know how 7nm + performs

Loads of tech heads and tech sites will do tests on the console once it releases. I'll bet anything that the console rarely reaches that number when playing a game.

 

[jackets with pockets]

The finale of The Game of Numbers is finally over and Microsoft came out triumphant, but, as expected, not by a huge margin.

Next up: The Game of Games - Season 1.

 

[WhispersintheWind]

So I been busy today. Got caught up On the PS5 news. Reached out and spoke to a Dev. I had some questions. The first question I ask how where they targeting 11TF pref if the console peak is 10.3TF. This is the answered I received.

They was targeting 11TF because of the speed of Sony’s SSD solution makes up for some of TFlops Performance. Also they would fine tune the rest in Optimization Stage with Ray Tracing. They also said the PS5 runs around 10TF all the time. While a game is running. In some scenes it would drop slightly. Like if the scene is a pre rendered. He stressed The SSD speed on PS5 will make a difference. Though Xbox Series X is the more powerful system.

Also in my Original post I told you target pref for PS5 was 10TF as of November last year. Devs had upped it around in of January. Apparently to adjust for the use of the SSD Streaming textures and Frames.

That is all I have at the minute.

 

[Zero707]

LMAO

 

[psorcerer]

Sony instead says that the RT consumes a lot of resources.

But RT does consume a lot of resources.

 

[DeeDogg_]

Let the Shit show begin. I won't duck throw your cabbage and tomatoes.

You’re a sad strange little man..

Hope u enjoyed your 5 min of fame

 

[chemical boy]

My brother works in a mobile video game studio, he is a programmer. And he tells me that the disappointment is maximum. And if the difference between one system and another is important. Of course I trust my brother much more than any fake insider. Anyone who wants to believe that they are very similar consoles is fooling himself, and the biggest differences we are going to see using the RT.

 

[Faithless83]

Y’all are freaking out about a 15% difference

one which many not even be as high since higher clocks improve performance outside of TFlops

I believe the problem was the reveal, how did they delivered the information. MS at least showed up Gears running.

 

[xool]

Yeah that shit is insane, they must have good cooling (which hopefully means quiet lol) in it.

Yeah - I do want to see that cooling solution. Cerny said teardown comes later.

 

[SLB1904]

finally, everything is out. now games please

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Around 20% overall and 40% in Ray Tracing (according to Rogame).

Can we trust Rogame's info???

 

[DaGwaphics]

Cool and not everyone cares about Sony's games... so?

Microsoft needs to show their games too. Obviously.

 

[Barakov]

50mins to explain that the ps5 has better specs than the PS4, I mean bruh...

To be fair, that's a pretty Sony thing to do.

 

[farmerboy]

If Sony still has a favorable First Party and Price Point, I don’t see why anything changes. Xbox already had the more powerful console (One X). Still outsold by Sony and Nintendo.

Yep, I've got no worries about 1st party. And I think that price will also be key. There's obviously a lot to still learn about it. BGs post about overall system balance/performance and that tweet about PS5 being the most important hardware in 20yrs gives me pause to consider, we haven't seen it all just yet.

But the xbots are dancing in the aisles at the moment. Its kinda fun to watch.

 

[Reindeer]

LMAO

Those aren't comparable Tflops so that's a really dumb statement.

 

[Felessan]

The problem with this presentation is that it's way too technical.

Audio chip is available on both ( Sony expressed more detail and apparently had more emphasis on it, Cell SPUs like architecture) still to be seen .

My take from this.
I expect this SPU thing to be a big one. Not only it opens way for PS3 backward compartibility, it solves some known bottlenecks. Physics, AI, sound processing should be naturally a GPU task because it's a bunch of SIMD (RFFT/FFT, Matrix multiplication etc) - and they all suffer from the same problem - GPU wavefront is just too big. You can't allocate 60-wide wavefront to multiply 2 or 3 vectors, it's a big waste of resources. You want something that as focused on SIMD as big GPU, just on lesser, granular scale to solve these tasks.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Y’all are freaking out about a 15% difference

one which many not even be as high since higher clocks improve performance outside of TFlops

Best case it's a 15% difference. They already said that that is practically boost mode, and it won't always run at that level... So probably most of the time 9.2 just like Github, that's a 30% difference.

 

[psorcerer]

Can we trust Rogame's info???

No, clocks are higher indeed.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Can we trust Rogame's info???

Why not?

He's been more accurate so far than just about every insider (well except Tommy Fisher's SeX specs)

 

[Monkeyclone]

One thing that amazed me about the reveal was 2.2GHz .. is that safe for a console with a 5 year life span - how many are just going to cook 1 month after the warranty runs out etc ??

I think the highest estimate on this forum was 2.1 on the new node. 2.2+ is nuts

Still don't really know how 7nm + performs

Cerny alluded to it having an impressive cooling solution that will be shown in a future tear down. Looking at the dev kit leaks are are a lot of vents on that thing. I dunno how much to infer from dev kit leaks though.

 

[DeeDogg_]

@Mod of War

Lets face it, guys: We have been trolled by fake insiders.

@OsirisBlack 12.4TF
@Tommy Fisher 13.3TF 52CU
@o'dium 11.6TF 52CU
@-Jay-Rod- 12TF

Ban! ☝

Only gullible morons got trolled. They got the attention they craved so a ban won’t do much.
Let this be a lesson to mods not to “vet” just any loser

 

[Insane Metal]

LMAO

Well tbh it will make a difference, furthermore, Stadia is GCN.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Why not?

He's been more accurate so far than just about every insider (well except Tommy Fisher's SeX specs)

Just read RGT's tweet. That's why

 

[gaming_noob]

Just woke up from the best power nap ever. Ahhhhh being an Xbot for the next 6-7 years is going to be great.

 

[zeroeffect]

So its 36CU (PS5) vs 54CU (Series X)

Can anyone tell me how this translates to games?

Will this be an massive advantage to Series X ?

I would guess RT will be better on XseX but it's hard to say. PS5 has higher clock speeds. Generally higher clock speeds are better than something with lower clock speeds and more CUs if they were both at same tf. You're not working with that here...but you still can't say for sure. I think RT will look better on XseX though but we'll have to see.

 

[KAL2006]

The thing is Sony have me worried about PS6 backwards compatibility.

It seems like the hardware is designed around running stuff in the original mode to run backwards compatible games. What if in the future this is harder to do with future technology.

Where as Microsoft made it seem like most of their games will improve, and going back to original Xbox. Then with Smart delivery they looking at forward compatibility.

Of course this could be due to Sony's bad messaging and they may have tons of cross buy games as they did with Vita and PS3/PS4. But it would have been great if Sony gave atleast one example of a PS4 game being enhanced such as say Spiderman. Series X showed enhanced Minecraft and Gears of War 5.

I just feel Microsoft doing a way better job with preserving a nice ecosystem that's cross compatible and even have graphic improvements. There game are also on PC too.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

If Sony still has a favorable First Party and Price Point, I don’t see why anything changes. Xbox already had the more powerful console (One X). Still outsold by Sony and Nintendo.

That’s not the point... we were here for the Ferrari not the Toyota... who cares if Toyota sells more cars?

 

[FranXico]

People trying to paint this as being similar to Xbox one vs PS4 know nothing at all and are really exaggerating the differences.

First GPU TF difference is way less than last gen , way less than the mid gen refreshes too. At best case 20% to Xbox unlike 40% last gen, most of this will be mitigated by 4k resolution.

PS5 unlike Xbox One WILL have some specs advantages (incredibly fast SSD, I/O , Unified ram at higher BW, and higher fillrate)

Audio chip is available on both ( Sony expressed more detail and apparently had more emphasis on it, Cell SPUs like architecture) still to be seen .

Cerny clearly expressed that having high clocks can be very advantageous to games and they were able to maintain a really unusually high clocks (2.23Ghz on a console form is unheard of, he said that it will be maintained around that clock or %10 at worst case ~2.0Ghz) he clearly stated that a 4TF GPU with less CUs @high clock is better than 4TF GPU with more CUs @ lower clocks. Saying that, XsX is clocked high too but not ridiculously high like PS5.

He also said that People will be pleased by cooling solutions they did, he said Sony never did it before. Amazing news.

He fixed PS4 most annoying problem. The long process of patching the games. Ultra great news.

RT is still up in the air, but I expect XsX to perform better due to more CUs on the chip. Still needs to see to what extent this advantage can be.

All in all , the situation is nothing like last gen and frankly PS5 looks like a well thought beast of a machine.

The PS5 would have been an excellent proposition last year. As it stands now, it's ok but simply not as good as the competition.
We'll see.

 

[JLMC469]

I blocked thelastword a while back. How is he responding?

 

[Freeway]

can't wait to see what kind of cooling solution Mark Cerny came up with
we only know that it's expensive

 

[DeeDogg_]

It's simple, you lied or they fooled you

There’s no or. He lied obviously jfc

 

[Stuart360]

I blocked thelastword a while back. How is he responding?

He isnt, he wont be here for a couple of days, and then return with an essay explaining how PS5 is actually more powerful.

 

[Apollo Helios]

Going down 10% in power only requires a few % of down clock, so don't know the gpu clock numbers but TF number won't go from 10.23 to 9.2, it may go down to 10 but GitHub is wrong.

Boost clocks end up with 9.2TF narrative is simply wrong my dudes.

 

[jon3sy9]

The finale of The Game of Numbers is finally over and Microsoft came out triumphant, but, as expected, not by a huge margin.

Next up: The Game of Games - Season 1.

yeh im fully paid up with gamepass til 2022 i cant wait for all these free games

 

[chemical boy]

The PS5 would have been an excellent proposition last year. As it stands now, it's ok but simply not as good as the competition.
We'll see.

That's the feeling I have, this console was planned to come out in 2019, not 2020.