Support NeoGAF

[Aceofspades]

Unique strengths are the key words of that tweet. PS5 vs. XSX is different from PS4 vs. XB1 because the XB1 had no unique strengths, but unique weaknesses, e.g. esRAM bottleneck, slow DDR3, and low ROPs.

People trying to paint this as being similar to Xbox one vs PS4 know nothing at all and are really exaggerating the differences.

First GPU TF difference is way less than last gen , way less than the mid gen refreshes too. At best case 20% to Xbox unlike 40% last gen, most of this will be mitigated by 4k resolution.

PS5 unlike Xbox One WILL have some specs advantages (incredibly fast SSD, I/O , Unified ram at higher BW, and higher fillrate)

Audio chip is available on both ( Sony expressed more detail and apparently had more emphasis on it, Cell SPUs like architecture) still to be seen .

Cerny clearly expressed that having high clocks can be very advantageous to games and they were able to maintain a really unusually high clocks (2.23Ghz on a console form is unheard of, he said that it will be maintained around that clock or %10 at worst case ~2.0Ghz) he clearly stated that a 4TF GPU with less CUs @high clock is better than 4TF GPU with more CUs @ lower clocks. Saying that, XsX is clocked high too but not ridiculously high like PS5.

He also said that People will be pleased by cooling solutions they did, he said Sony never did it before. Amazing news.

He fixed PS4 most annoying problem. The long process of patching the games. Ultra great news.

RT is still up in the air, but I expect XsX to perform better due to more CUs on the chip. Still needs to see to what extent this advantage can be.

All in all , the situation is nothing like last gen and frankly PS5 looks like a well thought beast of a machine.

 

[Spreewaldgurke]

Due to various problems I have not been able to see the video until now. I just saw it and ... They haven't revealed anything else? Really?

I have not read any comments yet and I may be mistaken, I have started to write (later or tomorrow with more time I will look at all the messages I can). Now I just want to express my outrage.

On the one hand, personally I think that, seeing how the video has been, I am sure that many users on the planet do not know what they have seen. And that is Sony's mistake. And that frustrates me.

In my opinion Sony is not presenting PS5 properly. They have in their hands a totally balanced system, without bottlenecks, efficient and very fast. They are "selling" very well the console to developers (but now, this is totally unnecessary). But they are selling it very badly to users, in my opinion.

I can understand that they want to take advantage of the GDC presentation but, with all that is happening, I think it would have been more appropriate to complete the presentation with more relevant information for the user.

Honestly, I understand that the traditional user may feel disappointed with what happened today, even I expected more content.

As for the power, I was clear, but I was expecting a clearer and more extensive explanation (with comparisons) about the true performance of the entire system, which is what ultimately matters and what this console especially stands out for.

Furthermore, it is clearly a fairly short and somewhat "incomplete" presentation, even for developers. What I don't understand is why?

But hey, Sony is Sony, it is their product, and they will know what they are doing and why. Tomorrow, cold, I will analyze it better. At the moment he seems to be playing an absurd game.

Well, don't despair much and good night.

Thanks for the headsup but even if the PS5 is more balanced as XSX, would a 1st party developer not optimize the XSX until he can take full advantage of the power?

 

[Stuart360]

And mods left him be ? lol wow what a dead forum

He said it in so many words, so to speak. Something like 'you guys shouldnt believe in what certain people say, including me. Now onto the reveal!', or something along those lines.

 

[farmerboy]

Not gonna lie fellas, Sony's taken a shot across the bow. I think there's more to play out, as usual the games will decide.

Need to know more of the individual intricacies. Still a Sony customer first but MS has given me something to think about.

 

[Investor9872]

Price is key imo, if priced similarly it will do some serious damage to playstation but if ps5 is $100+ cheaper it will be unstoppable

Personally kudos to ms for going all out, my only disappointment with green team is 16gb ram, hoped for 20gb at least

Except I would have loved to pay $100 more if the PS5 were closer to the 12 tfps XSX.

 

[xPikYx]

I believe Sony at the moment is run by monkeys, no offence for the monkeys, I love them, not Sony though, not anymore. But how is possibile that either I use an AMD ryzen or an AMD Ryzen 2 or even an AMD Bulldozer and I combine with an HD7970 or a RDNA 5700XT either I use win 7/8/10 I can play the games of the last 20 years on it, same with Nvidia/Intel, Intel/Radeon, AMD/Nvidia and I cannot play the whole PS4 catalogue on PS5? I could understand PS1/2/3 (well the 3, not the other two, but ok), but at least PS4 come on...at least Ken Kutaragi was having some ideas, he loved to risk, to create something unique, this guy Mark Cerny all I can say is that the first time he was lucky aF, Microsoft basically lost because of silly kinect strategy, now they lerned the lesson and went all in on games, offer, power and all for the sake of players, neat, clear, satisfaying without bullshitting. for sure because of the price and the IP Sony has they will go great as usual, but this time around, the fight will be on par, we are not gonna see the same situation we've seen with Xone/PS4. Today is like I've seen Apple presenting the new Iphone declaring it has only one camera at 5Mpixel, comparable screen resolution of a one plus 3, a CPU and a GPU comparable to a Snapdragon835 and then they say "hey but when you scroll the pages is faaaaaaast, when you swcht between an app and the other is faaaasssst, when you turn it on it loads the OS instantaneouslyyyyyyy". Mate who cares, gooooooshhhh

 

[demigod]

And mods let him trolling ? lol wow what a dead forum

Didn't you request a permaban if Github wasn't 100% legit or did you go back and edit that post?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It was kinda evident to me..

What Klee and many insiders said was relative to earlier dev kits.. MS didn't have 12TF dev kits..

It's not surprising most of them shut up shortly after the 12TF announcement.

I don't know how many of them there are, but at least 10.

I think what happened was whomever was the first "insider" a year ago made a claim of let's say 12tf, and then everyone else jumped on board with their decimal place adjustments in hopes that first guy was right, and any tweaks by Sony for +/- a tf would make all of them in the race for getting a gold star as TF Predictor King.

Little did they know, 12tf was BS the whole time and they should have latched onto that year old Oberon github and Rogame tweets and do guesses from that data.

They just didn't know Sony upclocked the gpu an extra 10% to get to 10.3tf.

 

[01011001]

If Microsoft has the headroom and the cooling to do so, they should increase their GPU clocks to increase the TFs even more. Like about 2.0Ghz. For marketing, PR and just because, I know I would if it's reasonable.

they could. if they do I expect a different mode, almost like Nintendo does it on Switch where developers can choose the clock speed of the GPU.

but even that is only really possible if their design isn't already pushing the limits

 

[LiquidRex]

What happened to suspend and resume multiple titles on the PS5, like on XSX?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Sony will get around to showing their exclusives and then the specs will fade to the background. It's all about games at the end of the day, the Sony hype train should still be fully hyped.

 

[Investor9872]

Im suffering from corona “symptoms” (I have to say that as there’s no tests available) ate tea then put my kid to bed. Some people have lives, it’s a shocker.

How can I put this... The uk just had a bomb shell 2 hours ago of ALL schools closing on Monday. So you can imagine that right now, my wife and I (who are teachers) are a little bit pre-occupied with what we are going to do with our 3.5 year old locked in a house for four weeks

You're lucky it's only 4 weeks. Here in the US, we have to deal with kids out of school until the Fall, that's 5 months from now.

 

[SonGoku]

Except I would have loved to pay $100 more if the PS5 were closer to the 12 tfps XSX.

Same, im just speaking of the market

 

[On Demand]

Could you forward me the cheque? I’ll store it next to my tin foil hat.

You're the grown adult with kids who actually has time to spend on a gaming forum lying to people for?...................

The funny thing is OsirisBlack pretty much admitted he was bullshitting, right before the PS5 event started.

I saw that post. Didn't think anything of it. These people must have boring lives.

 

[Mendou]

Sony really fucked this up this time. Fuck faster SSD. It will give you 6 sec instead of 5 sec on x series. But the gpu is much slower.

X series will be my first xbox ever. Sony really disappointed me this time.

Relax bro your disappointment is felt by almost everyone on here but the system is still impressive in its own way. I hope they sustain that 10.3 tf number through most games - it's admirable they tried to get it so close to the Xbox Series X. Seeing this I'll likely get the Xbox instead and enjoy those third-party games, but I hope those first-party PS5 games enjoy the full performance of that SSD; it sounds truly incredible.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Take care, BGs !

 

[M-V2]

50mins to explain that the ps5 has better specs than the PS4, I mean bruh...

 

[Fake]

Update the OP?

Yeap. If you wish, rename the thread as well. We can discuss nextgen here as usual.

 

[Mr Moose]

why the site didn't mention Variable Refresh Rate ?

Video Out

Support of 4K 120Hz TVs, 8K TVs, VRR (specified by HDMI ver.2.1)

 

[Zero707]

He said it in so many words, so to speak. Something like 'you guys shouldnt believe in what certain people say, including me. Now onto the reveal!', or something along those lines.

yeah right get his ass out of here this is bullshit

 

[SSfox]

Personally speaking no plans to buy PS5 day one for now unless:

- Some games i want to replay/i still play will run perfectly in PS5
- At least one of the launch games will would be something i REALLY want.

Tho still super excited about PS5 specs (still need dem BC tho), but for now i don't feel the need of getting it Day One from what we've seen, of course Sony will still show more before Fall 2020. Just some super honest right now feedback.

 

[FrozenFlame]

Have devs on twitter been chiming in on the PS5 specs and all that was talked about? Since this was a presentation for them, i would like to know what are their thoughts about it...

 

[SonGoku]

OMG YOU'RE ALIVE

Was hoping you'd get to see this monster thread you made lol

Holly crap i just checked my last post on this thread in on page 217... and we are now 1486 how did it blow up so much
Nice

 

[Zero707]

Video Out

Support of 4K 120Hz TVs, 8K TVs, VRR (specified by HDMI ver.2.1)

nah more like MS solution API DX 12 1.1

 

[Mr Moose]

nah more like MS solution API DX 12 1.1

VRS?
Edit: Oh do you mean the DXR stuff?

 

[Farrell55]

The XB1X has been faster than the PS4 Pro since it was announced and what difference did that make to people? None.

One x was 100$ more and Launched 1 year later

Ps5 and Xbox sx will launch atleast in the same timeframe

 

[Faithless83]

Due to various problems I have not been able to see the video until now. I just saw it and ... They haven't revealed anything else? Really?

I have not read any comments yet and I may be mistaken, I have started to write (later or tomorrow with more time I will look at all the messages I can). Now I just want to express my outrage.

On the one hand, personally I think that, seeing how the video has been, I am sure that many users on the planet do not know what they have seen. And that is Sony's mistake. And that frustrates me.

In my opinion Sony is not presenting PS5 properly. They have in their hands a totally balanced system, without bottlenecks, efficient and very fast. They are "selling" very well the console to developers (but now, this is totally unnecessary). But they are selling it very badly to users, in my opinion.

I can understand that they want to take advantage of the GDC presentation but, with all that is happening, I think it would have been more appropriate to complete the presentation with more relevant information for the user.

Honestly, I understand that the traditional user may feel disappointed with what happened today, even I expected more content.

As for the power, I was clear, but I was expecting a clearer and more extensive explanation (with comparisons) about the true performance of the entire system, which is what ultimately matters and what this console especially stands out for.

Furthermore, it is clearly a fairly short and somewhat "incomplete" presentation, even for developers. What I don't understand is why?

But hey, Sony is Sony, it is their product, and they will know what they are doing and why. Tomorrow, cold, I will analyze it better. At the moment he seems to be playing an absurd game.

Well, don't despair much and good night.

Thanks man! I was really hoping for your input on this. Looks like its not down to the numbers (at least yet). And I've noticed the focus on showing "no bottlenecks" on the presentation. Still, not a single game to show how the numbers translate to performance. Why!? They did it to show ssd using spiderman. Why not now?

Looks like I'm not the only one frustrated at it, at least.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I don't know how many of them there are, but at least 10.

I think what happened was whomever was the first "insider" a year ago made a claim of let's say 12tf, and then everyone else jumped on board with their decimal place adjustments in hopes that first guy was right, and any tweaks by Sony for +/- a tf would make all of them in the race for getting a gold star as TF Predictor King.

Little did they know, 12tf was BS the whole time and they should have latched onto that year old Oberon github and Rogame tweets and do guesses from that data.

They just didn't know Sony upclocked the gpu an extra 10% to get to 10.3tf.

The way I see it..

1) Some legit insiders said like back in November PS5 > XSX
2) MS announces 12 TF, turns out the insiders were wrong, I don't think they were lying, but I think they were going off of dev kits where PS5 > XSX
3) Every fake insider just ran with that, despite all the legit insiders going quiet, and assumed PS5 > 12TF

But whatever.. not entirely important lol

 

[joe_zazen]

Holly crap i just checked my last post on this thread in on page 217... and we are now 1486 how did it blow up so much
Nice

we all though you were in a chinese prison.

 

[SonGoku]

Yeap. If you wish, rename the thread as well. We can discuss nextgen here as usual.

I'll check out retardera to see what i can yoink, would you mind helping on dms im so lost

 

[LiquidRex]

Sorry Sony, I'm getting an XSX, it's fully backwards compatible with all titles yet the PS5 can't even guarantee the full PS4 catalogue

You invested too much in an SSD that will probably be so expensive, that the XSX will be closer in price.

XSX has the potential of 8k.... I have a funny feeling PS5 won't always put out 4k at 60fps

I'll pass on the ear videos too

 

[KAL2006]

I call bullshit on 10TF, I think PS5 probably closer to 8TF. And GPU clocks higher as CPU clocks lower etc.

They used 10TF as that's the max it hits and probably won't be 10TF all the time and if it is then CPU will get under locked more.

The lack of VRS and barely any mention of Ray Tracing says it all.

I think there will be a considerable gap between Series X and PS5. And people saying well PS5 will be checkerboard 4K and Series X will be native 4K so we won't tell the difference, what's stopping devs using checkerboard 4K on Series X.

As for faster SSD on PS5 that's cool but how many games will be designed around that other than exclusives as those games need to run on Series X and PC. At most you will get some quick load times in comparison but your talking a second or 2 difference.

The plus side PS5 looks to be cheaper than Series X but Sony may get beat on that end with Series S.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Can you explain what went wrong with your predictions? I don't want to start a flame war, genuinely interested in how do you things changed from what you heard to what really is

Certainly. I have several friends who are developers I’m various studios, and one had given me various bits of info. The info told me about the info drop on the 5th, which I alluded to with hints like Johnny 5 etc. That came to be. It was verified before posting it with Mod of War and I posted some hints, but it came true. The original hints they gave me on spec was that it was 10.5ish with a target of 11.5, and that they were currently on the lower end of that value but hit some thermal issues. But this wasn’t verified with Gaf. I then got updated values that it was 11.6, and that there was still thermal issues. This was verified, and I then posted some pigeon hints and fun.

Now here’s the thing. The original value? Is was pretty much spot on. 10.5ish with thermal issues could mean that’s where it was at, at one points, before being lowered to 10.2. That’s realistic to me.

It’s my believe that the values were changed by my friend because at this point they knew I was posting it on Gaf, and they got the jitters or something. I don’t know, I’m still trying to figure that part out, and don’t want to instantly jump to him being a dick.

So sadly, that’s all there is to it. No massive crime novel, no hidden tricks. I got fed good info, and bought it. But then that info changed and I used that as an update, and it burnt me.

There isn’t much else to say. Sorry it never turned out right, but at least we had a laugh along the way and made the news.

 

[Hatsuma]

Wow, the "insiders," and journalists that said ps5 is stronger were wrong, fed false info or lying. That's disappointing.

But I'm curious about all these custom/specialized equipment and curious about how it pans for the final product. Hopefully it is not just fluff.

 

[Sinthor]

Did it show the chip at 52? I thought it was 52 active, 56 total? Also some people were mentioning a while back that Scorpio's GPU was tested with all CUs on in devkit phase but 4 got deactivated for retail unit. If that's true then I assume they did the same thing with XSX.

But to the greater point tho, it does kinda seem like the yield issues have improved. Clock issues DEFINITELY have, 2.23 GHz just would not be possible on RDNA1 unless you slapped an air conditioner on that thing. And indeed there is something among the XSX memory setup we have to see play out because that partitioning is "interesting", and it's possible PS5 might not have that partitioning setup, i.e they could have 2GB or 4GB of DDR4 for the OS, and all 16GB GDDR6 at a set speed (either 448 GB/s or 512 GB/s) for games that devs can dynamically allocate to whatever logic, graphics, physics etc. tasks they want.

I mean, the SSD rumor turned out to be true, so maybe there is more to the PS5 memory setup than meets the eye. But for sure I think we can pretty much nail that down to 16 GB GDDR6 + (maybe) 2-4 GB DDR4.

I think it was just a post in discussion yesterday where people were saying something about the full chip being 52 CU's not 56 like GitHub showed. Possibly just speculation. Just made me think. If true, that would be a big deal, right?

But yeah I agree, we need to see performance with real games to see if memory bottlenecks are actually a 'thing.' I'm thinking this is part of why so many "leaks" kept saying the two machines were basically the same in performance, although the difference with ray tracing has me puzzled. Maybe not many are actually using the ray tracing? I dunno. We will see! Still looks like a very big leap from the PS4 so I'm good to go!

 

[SonGoku]

we all though you were in a chinese prison.

Corona patient zero

 

[Zero707]

Didn't you request a permaban if Github wasn't 100% legit or did you go back and edit that post?

nah i said if ps5 didn't have 36CU or 40CU ban me
also github is 100% from ram speed to gpu it had it all
and i didn't edit shit now go cry to the mods to ban me

 

[Kenpachii]

I call bullshit on 10TF, I think PS5 probably closer to 8TF. And GPU clocks higher as CPU clocks lower etc.

They used 10TF as that's the max it hits and probably won't be 10TF all the time and if it is then CPU will get under locked more.

The lack of VRS and barely any mention of Ray Tracing says it all.

I think there will be a considerable gap between Series X and PS5. And people saying well PS5 will be checkerboard 4K and Series X will be native 4K so we won't tell the difference, what's stopping devs using checkerboard 4K on Series X.

As for faster SSD on PS5 that's cool but how many games will be designed around that other than exclusives as those games need to run on Series X and PC. At most you will get some quick load times in comparison but your talking a second or 2 difference.

The plus side PS5 looks to be cheaper than Series X but Sony may get beat on that end with Series S.

That's the problem, if microsoft takes the marketshare specially with the focus on PC with it and if PC isn't going to move to higher SSD speeds, the speed of the SSD will practically not going to be useful even remotely for anybody but first party games and even then what's the point, as first party games would have worked just as fine with a 2gb's ssd.

They focused on the wrong components and get burned for it now the entire gen. I would not be shocked if in a year from now the PRO will already be announced.

Also 10% over 9,2 seems to be in the ballpark i do think its 9,2. I don't think the box will ever hit 10tflops they told people. I could even see cpu underclocking.

 

[chemical boy]

It is necessary to speak clearly, PS5 is a disappointment and to date Sony are doing everything wrong. It seemed that today they would hit the table and it turns out that it is MS that has brought them down. PS5 is not a premium console. Not a $ 1,000 console. It's a $ 399 console at most. And that is disappointing. Domde are those surprises that Ryan said was going to be announced? I will buy the output SX and wait for the PS5 pro. This PS5 doesn't seem like a well-made product, considering it's 36 cu and it looks like the watches have been forced to be above 10 TFLOS. By the way, there will be a big difference in the RT, in fact they have hardly named it. Osiris has teased us ...

 

[xool]

Holly crap i just checked my last post on this thread in on page 217... and we are now 1486 how did it blow up so much
Nice

Did you even see the github thing ? - turns out all Apisak and Komachi's data was from a repository on github - some internal tests got left public - it had a ton of data on upcoming AMD cpus include Oberon / Arden etc - got taken down about a month back when news became public ..

Still not sure about flute - that was 3dmark I think.

In between then about 1000 pages of "github is right" / "guthub is wrong" arguing.

 

[B_Boss]

While I agree with you in theory, the downplaying of the XSX reveal from those people who with "just excitement for their console of choice" is a bit disingenuous. Even that hype thread was full of shitty on Xbox. As were a lot of threads. They can take it on the chin like adults.

Agreed 100 % and it’s unfortunate that MS’ awesome reveal was even downplayed. You just can’t stop awesome hype and/or facts.

 

[llien]

1) Check first pages of this thread, expectations were around Vega56-64 levels (with weaker TFLops). PS5 is by no means underwhelming
2) It's Microsoft which went bananas with spec wars, Sony didn't do anything wrong.
3) Show me the price on XSeX. The need to roll out Lockhart is not a good sign.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

So its 36CU (PS5) vs 54CU (Series X)

Can anyone tell me how this translates to games?

Will this be an massive advantage to Series X ?

 

[Jimmyisback]

This is what happend. 9.2 Teraflops was right on the money. Sony paniced. So they messed with the clock speeds. They didn't realize they need substantial cooling by doing that. So the cost of build materials increased eg more expensive cooling needed. But 10.XX TF isn't sustainable. its only for boost speeds.

 

[Monkeyclone]

Has sony said anything about PS5 games also playing on 4 and pro?

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

Sony will get around to showing their exclusives and then the specs will fade to the background. It's all about games at the end of the day, the Sony hype train should still be fully hyped.

Cool and not everyone cares about Sony's games... so?

 

[chemical boy]

So its 36CU (PS5) vs 54CU (Series X)

Can anyone tell me how this translates to games?

Will this be an massive advantage to Series X ?

Well it is translated as follows: MS shows us the RT widely. Sony instead says that the RT consumes a lot of resources. I think with that everything is said.

 

[SonGoku]

Did you even see the github thing ? - turns out all Apisak and Komachi's data was from a repository on github - some internal tests got left public - it had a ton of data on upcoming AMD cpus include Oberon / Arden etc - got taken down about a month back when news became public ..

Still not sure about flute - that was 3dmark I think.

In between then about 1000 pages of "github is right" / "guthub is wrong" arguing.

Whoa impressive
Its all new for me, only thing i knew before today is new xbox case design

My biggest disappointment so far is ram volume and bandwidth

 

[Aceofspades]

So its 36CU (PS5) vs 54CU (Series X)

Can anyone tell me how this translates to games?

Will this be an massive advantage to Series X ?

Difference is smaller than PS4 vs Xbox One or PRO vs X

PS5 will have some advantages too , so not anything like last gen.

 

[xool]

One thing that amazed me about the reveal was 2.2GHz .. is that safe for a console with a 5 year life span - how many are just going to cook 1 month after the warranty runs out etc ??

I think the highest estimate on this forum was 2.1 on the new node. 2.2+ is nuts

Still don't really know how 7nm + performs