VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I was really picturing him trying very, very hard to get the crap down to retard level after hearing he would speak to "hardcore gamers" due to GDC cancellation.Being smart is depressing
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SonGoku
Member
Running both at max frequency (or close to) isn't the problem
Its the type of loads, cerny mentioned 256bit native instructions to be particularly power hungry
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ethomaz
Banned
FroM what I remember Cerny said there is no thermal shift and devs can choose.
So it fits with DF talk.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
The mid-gen refreshes will be where ray tracing is highly utilized.
wintersouls
Member
I whant to see the console itself, i hope it looks something like this and has a white version at launch
I always tryna buy white consoles when available because i like them more than black ones and they stand out more.
I love. Very elegant.
kyliethicc
Member
But that’s not what they’re doing. They’re only using boost for all games. So no PS4 games will work “as is” but has to be able to handle boostEd frequencies. Sony’s goal is that all PS4 games on PS5 will run better
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
kyliethicc
Member
Also, LOTS of people don’t get that Cerny said for many games the PS5 can run BOTH the CPU and GPU clocks at max, again, not just one or the oher, but both at max, if the power constraints allow it. He said that the CPU or GPU would go down in clock if it has to in order to prevent excessive fan noise or heat.
So all the talk about PS5 not running at 10.3TFs from some Xbox fans is bullshit.
Devs will choose if they want the GPU running at 10.3TFs all the time or not.
Devs can choose any time which component will be at full speed... so a GPU heavy scene they will choose GPU at 2230Mhz.
A scene that requires more CPU they will choose CPU at 3.5Ghz.
There is no underclock due thermals or anything like.
T-Cake
Member
I'm confused then. What's the point of having PS4 Legacy and PS4 Pro Legacy modes if all the games are running in PS5 mode?
FranXico
Member
Games that don't handle boost mode well fall back to using the legacy mode.
T-Cake
Member
Zoinks. So they are going to have to test all 4000-odd titles then. But how much time are they devoting to each title. Who knows if the game will crash when you get to 90% complete, for example.
Nivek OnlyOn
Member
Jason is slowing timdogs bias narrative. Narrativr blockerI'm happy for the little scamp. No denying his love of xbox, doesn't matter how unrational.
But if you're reading Timmy, remember, all this joy is based on the number 2 (flop delta) and a 24fps pre-recorded video (Hellblade).
Let's just wait to see a realtime demo mate.
Zzpaff
Member
from ignorance, and as it is still a speculation thread, let's speculate on the half-generation consoles, (if any), sony can increase the number of teraflops and keep the ssd configuration ultra fast, xbox would also increase the flops, but Could you use at least the same way an ssd solution like sony's, being anchored to series x?
T-Cake
Member
If Microsoft can design a mid-gen console missing entire features like ESRAM and work around it with software, I'm sure they can pretty much do anything.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
You should watch DF analysis, it was what shifted my mind first. Don't get me wrong, I was getting PS5 anyway, but I felt like the gap is big, which isn't. The more devs speak, the more we get more hints to what to expect. But, let's wait for games indeed.
See the laughable difference here between 2080 (10.1 TF) and 2080Ti (13.4 TF) and the difference is 24.6%, not to mention if the devs aim for locked 60fps then that's around ~70fps of headroom. If not then it's a scenario of less than 9fps at 60fps! which is 14.8%
And that's without the SSD and the Secret Sauce
Thanks for sharing brother! Nice find!
these guys have no idea what they are talking about and aren’t worth listening to.
Reindeer
Member
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I'm curious, I didn't do research on PS5 RT. Care to elaborate on this?
Edit: and yeah RDNA1 is bullshit or Cerny wouldn't have spent ten minutes to explain efficiency differences from PS4.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
XBox 360 BC titles for Xbox One was only a few hundred. SeX is full BC with whatever games were already BC on Xbox.
360 BC was MS's first foray into gunning for BC, and they only got a few hundred out before calling it quits. The good point was many of them were boosted with enhancements. X playing the same games boosted some even more
So given that, PS4 BC on PS5 might be a similar hill to climb. On paper, you'd think it should be a slam dunk to have PS4 BC in full array since the tech is similar. Sex/X/One are pretty similar so it was easy. 360 took time. PS4/PS5 should be easy, but somehow it's not. PS1-PS3 is an afterthought.
Since PS5 will not support BC with most games right off that bat (except that up to 100 games claim), that leaves gamers wanting BC for the other 95% of PS4 games to do one of two things.
1. Wait it out for BC and hope it comes for that game
2. There is a magical new PS5 version that pops up on PSN, you buy that version for $$$, or hope Sony allows you to digitally download it for free so it's kind of like BC. Your PSN account will show if you played it, so it shouldn't be a hassle. No different than SeX allowing Smart Delivery so if you buy the game once it works on all Xbox systems
For PS4 games coming out right now..... LoU 2 and Ghosts, I don't even think Sony said they are BC. So if you buy them on PS4, and then get a PS5 and want to play it, it might not even work.
So unless Sony says their first party games are all BC, you might as well play safe if you're getting a PS5 and buy LoU 2 and Ghosts versions for PS5.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
On the blog update they explain they are aiming to get thousands games on BC since D1. That 100 thing claim got me confuse too.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Reindeer
Member
I like it how the SSD will be making up that 8-20% power difference he mentions
. I also like how he says that PS5 has smart architecture and basically assuming that Xbox has a dumb one . What's with all these devs suddenly coming out in defense of PS5? Same devs that were telling us PS5 tflop count is near identical to Xbox, some even telling insiders that PS5 has an advantage . Absolute joke this.
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kyliethicc
Member
That’s for logic and code working. It’s as if they’re able to run a PS4 or PS4 Pro but at PS5 clock speeds.
kyliethicc
Member
See! Even Xbox has no idea if all games can be played on Xbox Series X. Both Sony and Microsoft are like “we don’t know yet, we’re testing games, let you know”
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megreotsugua
Banned
Nice explanation about the SSD speed and I/O throughput advantage.
Add to that:
Don't expect anything ground-breaking within 2 years, at least from XSX perspective.
And by the time XSX will have it's exclusive game taking advantage of the 2.4gb/s SSD, PS5 PRO is right around the corner with 20 or more TF.
jonnyp
Member
This and and Sony's added statement on BC pretty much saying the same thing is utterly shocking /sarcasm
A lot of threads have turned into fanboys acting like two clans of monkeys throwing feces at each other. Both sides are spouting either outright lies or ignorant statements about each console's specs, which they have little to no technical knowledge or understanding of.
Maybe it's time for me to take a two week break from Neogaf until it calms down.
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T-Cake
Member
This is totally bizarre. Why the devil does the PC not have this problem?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Turned? It only got worse.
Maybe.
ethomaz
Banned
It is the same approach for all... it is just a matter of how much money (size of the team) you put to validate all games.
Suck a waste of money that could be used for a new IP.
Sadly Sony took the bait.
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M.Night Shyamalan
Member
[/QUOTE]
Quick ask the "games journalists" from "reputable" "news" websites like DF, IGN and Gamespot to write on this.
Oh, yeah, they wont because they are all pretty much tabloid-y cunts and it just happens to be nice to spin for MS since before the One X launch. Especially John, Rich and other assholes at DF.
Quick ask the "games journalists" from "reputable" "news" websites like DF, IGN and Gamespot to write on this.
Oh, yeah, they wont because they are all pretty much tabloid-y cunts and it just happens to be nice to spin for MS since before the One X launch. Especially John, Rich and other assholes at DF.
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demigod
Member
I’m still holding out on BC for PS3. Wtf happened to the team that was doing software BC for Sony.
megreotsugua
Banned
Good question.
Cerny can always double the teraflops for the PS5. And same with PS4 and PS4 PRO, the PRO will have higher resolution. The baseline of SSD speed, I/O throughput, and 3D audio is already standard for PS5. Sony World Wide Studios will take advantage of it and we will see mind blowing games from them.
MS can also release a mid-gen console and upgrade the SSD speed and I/O throughput. But they will always be tied with their lowest common denominator. Even if they put 6gb/s SSD in there, their lockhart SSD will shackle even their first party games.
splattered
Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Doubt youre getting it. PS3 gaming is more of a PS Now thing.
The farther you go back in time, the less people care. I don't think too many people care for PS3 games being true BC, just as I don't think Xbox gamers care for more 360 and Xbox OG games.
So for these old gens of games, what you got now is probably what you're going to get.
Xbox 360 and OG is 500+ games (I just googled it). I don't think MS is craving to spend time making more titles BC.
Sony's PS3 PS Now is I don't know. Whatever number games that is is probably all you're going to get. On the plus side, since it's pure streaming, there's probably a better chance of more PS3 games going to PS Now than more 360 and OG games being BC on SeX.
(Edit: Googling it, Xbox stopped doing BC last year. So basically what there is for 360/OG that's it).
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kyliethicc
Member
I love how the entire game press pretends like all Xbox One games will be playable on Xbox Series X. But Microsoft is like “we don’t know yet how many, def not all at launch“ and no one says shit.
Sony says the exact same shit and everyone is like “fuck you Sony” lol it’s so dumb. Both consoles will probably play most last gen games over the next few years. Some won’t.
Sony says the exact same shit and everyone is like “fuck you Sony” lol it’s so dumb. Both consoles will probably play most last gen games over the next few years. Some won’t.
Neo Blaster
Member
BC at the beginning of the generation is more a way to keep your installed base inside your ecosystem than just allow people to play older games. Marketing will say 'keep your investment by bringing your catalog to the new console'.
Yoboman
Member
my favourite game?
I'm not sure why they would spend 100k hours testing Rocket League
LordOfChaos
Member
Just posting this out of interest, I'm not here implying the gulf would be closed or anything, but this is kind of interesting. It does sort of feel like Sony hasn't begun trying in earnest to pitch the PS5 yet, GDC was just that, for developers.
"The stuff I'm hearing from developers is very different from what I'm seeing in Sony's marketing strategy,"
"I'm getting texts and DMs from developers being like, this is such a shame, the PS5 is so superior in all these other ways that they're not actually able to message right now, or can't talk about right now. I heard from at least three different people, since the Cerny thing, that the PS5 is actually the superior piece of hardware in a lot of different ways despite what we're seeing in these spec sheets."
www.pushsquare.com
podcasts.google.com
"The stuff I'm hearing from developers is very different from what I'm seeing in Sony's marketing strategy,"
"I'm getting texts and DMs from developers being like, this is such a shame, the PS5 is so superior in all these other ways that they're not actually able to message right now, or can't talk about right now. I heard from at least three different people, since the Cerny thing, that the PS5 is actually the superior piece of hardware in a lot of different ways despite what we're seeing in these spec sheets."
PS5 'Superior' to Xbox Series X in a Lot of Ways, But Devs Seem Disappointed by Sony's Communication
Ups and downs
www.pushsquare.com
Google Podcasts
With Google Podcasts, you can find and listen to the world's podcasts for free.
podcasts.google.com
Apollo Helios
Member
Headphone's is already solved actually Cerny mentions in the presentation, and it also currently working for TV stereos but they are working on enlarging the sweet spot of the effect applying this 3D audio effect.
You know what there was some space left on the image explaining legacy modes for PS4 and Pro in Cerny's presentation, and I think there is something cooking up for at least PS3 BC in the background but they didn't want to overpromise and underdeliver it. It might be working half the time for example but they want to make sure, or we are just speculating for something that is just not there at all. Even still I think that Tempest 3D audio chip is actually can also function as PS3's Cell for BC since Cerny made this connection in the presentation, so hw might be there already but software side isn't workin up to par and it is not enough to promise as a feature. We already know of PS2 chip inside some PS3 units that didn't materialize bc of software issues, so it added to PS3's BoM back then, but now at least this chip originally and mainly functions as Tempest 3D engine if BC software stuff doesn't work. Some to think of it, Cerny's push for realistic audio can have a new meaning in this light and maybe (I'm purely speculating) he's the one for pushing hw BC for Sony while Jim 'always-drunk-looking' Ryan is the one enforcing no BC policy or something. This might explain his anti-BC interviews and Cerny's Trojan horse plan of putting PS3 Cell in the Tempest 3D Audio skin?
user1337
Member
Because games on a PC are made to run on a bagillion combinations of PC builds, while console games are made to run on that particular console.
The amount of damage control going on is beyond hilarious. But I guess this was always going to happen lol.
I like it how the SSD will be making up that 8-20% power difference he mentions
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TLZ
Banned
Why would a 3rd party dev damage control for Sony? Why would he care?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
The amount of people who think others being excited and talking about some future tech as damage control is even more laughable.
I don't understand the mentality to do these drive by remarks, its beyond childish honestly.
mitchman
Gold Member
No, the gpu cache scrubber and DMA engine is unique to the PS5 and important to eliminate the overhead of texture reads from the SSD, so there is no need to have the CPU touch any texture data read. A massive bottleneck is elimated with this and this is arguably as important as the raw bandwidth of the SSD.
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