Apollo Helios
Member
2.23GHz is oddly specific, so 2.25 or somewhere along those couple of 10MHz upwards could be the point where the chip stops responding as I said in a previous post.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
The consoles are similar in terms of power. 16% is a relatively meaningless difference.
Fake
Member
There is a thread already.Posted already?
Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]
Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.blog.us.playstation.com
I must say is a much better friendly answer.
Reindeer
Member
No, Jason was obviously talking like he knew the tflop count and both Klee and Osiris said they got exact specs of the GPU with Osiris even posting numbers here. Some devs were feeding BS info.
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Apollo Helios
Member
I suspect we will see with some games they're really close and some games even faster on PS5 and these people reflected alpha game code running on both to these 'insiders' but those are unoptimized codes anyway.
DaGwaphics
Member
From what we've seen of the XSX design, this probably would not be the case. The expansion port gives easy access to PCIe 4x, if games were suddenly being made in the next 7 years that required more than 2.4GB/s, they could always release another expansion card with a better controller (with some games requiring this expansion). Highly unlikely on all counts, but it's been done in the past with RAM expansion.
Or they were just plain wrong.. which they were. They specified they were talking about power/TFs, not just performance.
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ethomaz
Banned
Sorry my mistake I wanted to write you can’t go but the iOS removed the ‘t.
I’m questioning because from what I understood from Cerny talk is that you can’t go over that.
Said that the chip won’t stop to responding even way higher that 2.25Ghz... it just that the power draw increases exponentially.
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Audiophile
Member
While I've been defending a lot of aspects of the PS5, I'd be very surprised and very disappointed if VRS isn't in there; it's absolutely fair game for criticism if that's the case. In a closed box it seems a no-brainer at this point. From what I can gather it's inherent to RDNA2 and I'm hoping Sony simply haven't mentioned it yet.
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DaGwaphics
Member
Maybe the spec sheets on Sony's side were in GCN flops (RDNA not released yet)? If MS released a sheet at around the same time, but based on projected figures of the new architecture, you could get a situation where Sony's numbers were bigger at one point (on paper).
Reindeer
Member
Imagine devs having access to PS5 hardware and being unable to calculate how many tflops it has based on hardware info that's easily accessible on developer level
.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I find it curious as to why so many people had that number and higher because there were a lot of people saying that.
Apollo Helios
Member
Well the hardware now won't go above it since they found out the ceiling in controlled environment and put in place that cap so that it functions while performing at the top of the power of the chip. I don't understand what you are asking for?
DaGwaphics
Member
Maybe a pro already in the works?
ethomaz
Banned
It is there at hardware level.
It is unknown if Sony will use it or allow devs use it with their API.
ethomaz
Banned
The guy is saying the opposite.
PS5’s GPU clock over the soft cap of 2.23Ghz.
So I’m questioning that.
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Why wouldn't Sony allow devs to use it?.
FranXico
Member
Cerny mentioned it in the presentation. They "capped at 2.23Ghz". This implies they tried to go even higher.
ethomaz
Banned
Yea but the guy is saying it can cross the soft cap.
ethomaz
Banned
Is it needed? I don’t know.
If Sony doesn’t implement it in their API then devs will need to code to metal to use it... I can’t see devs doing that.
Apollo Helios
Member
I'm not sure about this, VRS being in RDNA 2 architecture and hardware level, since it may be codeveloped by MS and AMD for SeX only and maybe only the future PC cards may include it but not PS5? There wasn't anything mentioned in Cerny's talk, and AMD documentation doesn't say anything about it yet, actually I'm not sure there is a document about RDNA 2 architecture that goes deep-dive into it, only marketing stuff from financial day.
Reindeer
Member
Dude, they were testing these chips early to mid last year already and even last month we were still getting this BS info. Plus multiple sources said RDNA based dev kits were already out.
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megreotsugua
Banned
The decompressor inside the device was designed to accomodate 2+gb/s of data resulting to 4+gb/s. Even if you put a faster SSD in there it would not give you substantial benefit.
That's why SATA SSD and NVME SSD on PC produce the same result.
The SSD bandwidth AND I/O THROUGHPUT has to be accounted for, now. A faster version later in the mid-gen will be shackled by the least common denominator.
That's not the case with 10.3TF and 22TF machine for example. Screen output resolution will be the only difference.
Hence to me, Sony made the right calls in designing the regular PS5.
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ethomaz
Banned
It is not codeveloped by MS... VRS exists in nVidia GPUs way before MS talk about that... even Intel GPU support or will support it.
DXR 1.1 is codeveloped by MS and AMD just like DXR 1.0 is codeveloped by MS and nVidia.
VRS is not a MS feature... it is a GPU feature and all GPU vendors can have it.
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To be honest the Sony APIs are pretty thin, and I suspect that they will implement every feature of the GPU in detail. This is actually one of the reasons that they have more trouble with BC then MS because they don't abstract away as much of the machine as MS does allow developers to use weird quirks of features that don't get implemented in DX.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
The vast majority of insiders are full of shit. And the ones that made an honest attempt with their game industry friends for secret info got lied to.
Most of the insiders claiming big numbers disappeared, or stuck around and have been low key. The only ones who manned up and have been posting normal were ones who were close to the 10.3tf count.
As I mentioned (and some others too), getting lied to about 12-13tf, or an insider maybe actually getting 10tf secret info but purposely telling forums it's "12-13tf" and "I heard it's a bit more powerful than Series X" by 90% of insiders could be done for various reasons:
- They don't want to make PS5 look bad for 12 months before Sony details the tech. Don't want to piss off Sony
- They want to get that insider guy off their back, and told them a nice juicy number. Get lost and don't bug me anymore
- They told them a number similar as SeX so that there isn't any feather ruffling among gamers. If gamers hear both systems are close in power there's not much either fan base can do but wait. If word gets out 18 months before launch that one system is more powerful and it's supported with GitHub data, it'll be a shit show. These Xbox and PS numbers have actually been floating around for a year. We basically had the core details the whole time, but insiders crashed the party with 12-13tf BS since last year. Look how pissy forums are already at PS5 data and it's only been 2 and half days since Cerny's show. So just imagine how pissy forums would be and gaming people getting Twitter bombed from angry gamers if accurate details were leaked since Q1 2019 and all these so-called insiders supported the 10tf
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DaGwaphics
Member
Put a better controller on the expansion card with integrated decompression units, bypass the on-board with a firmware update (if the drive is present). Not sure what you are saying regarding SATA and NVMe on PC, they do not produce similar results. If software is not designed to take advantage of the hardware you might get a similar result, but that's not a hardware problem.
Apollo Helios
Member
The guy is not an AMD or Sony employee working on the console, may be someone knowledgable in graphics chips, maybe an engineer but he was trying to explain something with the data he knows and gleans, nothing more. We do the same with perhaps less technical knowledge, in trying to interpret a genius like Cerny's words, so I'm still now sure what you are fishing for? Trying to get us to admit to stuff or something if that was ever meant something anyway? We are ALL shooting shit out of our asses in speculations nothing more. I'm not trying to convince someone of something (unlike some 'insiders') just trying to make sense of these specs myself and share what I think I know. I am open minded so if I'm wrong I'll easily admit that since I don't have ginormous ego or trying to push an agenda or being a plant to control PR narratives for some company.
Reindeer
Member
And this why I think these devs are coming out trying to defend PS5, they are protecting their interests.
DaGwaphics
Member
Do we know when these people saw these spec sheets, and if they were privy to each revision?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Or possibly some truly are looking forward to what they can do with that SSD speed
ethomaz
Banned
I’m questioning if what the guy said is true or not lol
Or they are truly amazed of what they can do with PS5’s SSD.
You see what your bias makes you see... we will only know the truth when the games started to be showed.
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Apollo Helios
Member
Ok I didn't know that. From MS wording on their blog post, the related portion at least, gave me the idea that it might be console exclusive. So this means PS5 and the future PC Cards most likely to have VRS in them? Btw is it a Dx12 feature?
Reindeer
Member
Some of these people are really trustable and they were all saying the same thing, that PS5 is 12-13 tflops based on the info they got from devs. Some devs were likely feeding BS info because they dad their own interest in this whole thing, protecting their cash cow that is PS5 and making sure gamers are excited for both consoles. Or they were some grade A level trolls
.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
No, they legitimately are excited about the system and aren't so close minded to think TF is the be-all-end-all for overall system performance and capabilities.
Pretty much. All the devs praising it are either first party or have close ties to Sony like RaD.
ethomaz
Banned
It is a DX12 feature but not exclusive.
For example nVidia Turing VRS can be used with DX11, DX12, Vulkan and OpenGL.
VRWorks - Variable Rate Shading (VRS)
developer.nvidia.com
To explain better you need to understand that these are hardware features... so nVidia and AMD GPU need to support VRS at hardware level.
Today only nVidia’s Turing and AMD’s RDNA2 supports VRS at hardware level.
To use VRS in these hardware you need to code to metal or use an API... that is when MS enters with DirectX... MS support VRS in DX11 and DX12.
Others APIs can support VRS too like it is already supported by Vulkan and OpenGL.
PS5’s GPU is RDNA2 so it support VRS at hardware level... devs can code to metal to use it or wait Sony implement the feature in their API.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
For sure.
But that's totally natural for ANY dev that has a direct affiliation with the console maker, or wants to simply be a kiss ass.
The key devs supporting PS5 (as per that Reeee thread) were ND employees, ex-ND employees, that guy at Ready at Dawn etc..... Of course they are going to buddy up.
The same would go for Xbox if SeX was 7.8tf. You'd have 343 and Coalition employees doing their best defending a weak system.
That's social media for ya. Some people do it. Some don't.
I don't have a Twitter account, and I never post articles or reply at LinkedIn posts that my connections do...... "Good job!"..... "Glad you got promoted".
Some do that stuff. I don't.
This kind of social media drivel gets annoying. Over the past few years LinkedIn has morphed into a mini version of Facebook where suddenly people on my news feed are giving each other Happy Birthday congrats. WTF. I know it's a networking site, but geez. I guess if it helps you land a job by telling someone they look great at 40 years old.
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Reindeer
Member
I'm sure some of them are, but there's usually agenda with these type of things. Some of these devs sounded really defensive which was extremely strange to see.
megreotsugua
Banned
Even if such expansion will exist in the future. No games, even MS first party games, can take advantage of the better I/O throughput because of the least common denominator that still exist, unless MS abandon that.
There can be an advantage as to loading times but not asset streaming advantage. It's the same argument MS side is saying about 3rd part games not taking advantage of 5.5gb/s of PS5. And I think they're right. Only first party games will take advantage of it. 3rd party games will only benefit with instant loading.
PS5 has a baseline for SSD speed and I/O throughput. TF number will be upgraded later.
The Series X is outperforming a 2080 ti with an unoptimized port of Gears 5. DF was very conservative in saying it was performing similar to an RTX 2080
DaGwaphics
Member
In order to properly use an expansion solution, the game would have to require that expansion. This has happened in the past (typically with ram expansion), no expansion, no game.
I doubt we'll reach a stage in this generation where developers can't make 2.4GB/s work. Good chance the average PC still has less in 7yrs. Look at how long 500MB/s SSDs have been on the market and they still haven't supplanted spinners yet.
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Quote "We believe" .,.ie..hopefully, maybe, no one knows for certain, we'll see. A belief of a possibility. Though it's not even a promise but a hope.Posted already?
Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]
Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
reiner specifically said tflops and colin said significantly more powerful. why would anyone say significantly more powerful knwoing there is a 2 tflops gap? klee also said he had access to final specs and many times specified he was talking about flops. to me, stuff just doesnt add up here.
also, i wouldnt take cerny's word for the high clocks. he also didnt confirm vrs which is going to give a big boost to performance in xbox series x games.
lastly, those extra 16 cus only take up 35-40mm2 die space. thats roughly 10-15% of the overall die. i think they downgraded the ram because they are trying to save money and want to hit the $399 price spot. ssd is smaller than 1tb too so they are saving some money there as well.
the entire console feels like a hastily hacked together mess to me. they are cheapening out on literally every single piece of tech. worse cpu, worse gpu, worse ram, and even 20% less ssd space.
Apollo Helios
Member
Yeah abstraction or lack thereof for PS has its advantages and disadvantages.
BC is where it needs to have the architecture matching so it is kind of a disadvantage. PS4 to PS4 Pro 'butterfly' and now 36 Custom RDNA 2 on PS5 is all to serve that. But all of these also made coding to the metal and optimization like no other console could do the advantages of the same decision for choosing this principle.
So if gpu can do VRS, they will make it work. Question is, is it going to be dependent on the developers, and how much it needs working if it is? OR can it be applied simply by setting a resolution target and it works like magic?
Well to be fair, you do that for them no? They pushed an agenda and now they can sit back and relax since it is propagated without their posts but others became their mouths...
megreotsugua
Banned
They certainly didn't do that during PS4 PRO and XBOX ONE X.
4k vs a little below 4k doesn't matter. Resolution didn't matter in the pro and one x.
Devs are speaking about the SSD being downplayed by many. And I think it's incumbent upon them to prove to us that the naysayers are wrong.
Show us your games. Talk is cheap. (Maybe there's a right timing for that, I don't know.)
ethomaz
Banned
Fake news... DF confirmed that early port of Gears 5 is performing near RTX 2080 level... not there yet.
Audiophile
Member
If VRS is there in hardware it would be utterly bizarre if it's not allowed. There's potentially double digit (%) performance gains to be made.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Exactly.
In 2013, Sony announces PS4 will have 8gb of GDDR5 ram and suddenly that's the greatest thing in console gaming.
2020 rolls around and aside from a shittier SSD, SeX is better than PS5 across the board. Yet somehow 2020 is the year of the SSD and all other specs are...... "who cares".
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