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[cryptoadam]

It's been explained over and over again why isolating the oldies doesn't work. People at serious risk of death are 50+ and people with comorbidities. In Italy over half the population is over 50, if you add to that the young folks with comorbidities you're reaching 55-60 percent of the population. You think a country can run with 60% of its population locked?

The US is in a similar situation, 45+ represent 55% of the workforce. You really think America can run with 55% of its workforces locked down?

It's fucking retarded how young folk are throwing a fit at the thought of spending 2-3 months at home, risking country and family just because they're gonna miss 8-10 weekends of partying.

They're not old boomers you stupid fuck, they're the people making the country run.

I agree, but we should be looking into a tirage system here maybe.

Looking at Italy's numbers, they are out of control and crashing their hospital system because 40% of the cases are over 70 and represent 96% of the deaths. If Italy could have reduced that number to match SK's of only 10% over 70 how much strain would that have saved on the hospital system?

Locking up the old people saves lives of the younger people because it frees up the hospitals. For all the horror stories of hospitals being overwhelmed and there are this and that many people under 50 in ICU's etc... those people under 60 are recovering, especially under 50.

If you are a country at the begining of this I would lockdown anyone over 70, put serious restrictions on those 60-70. And then everyone else practice social distancing and shelter at home as much as possible along with hygenic measures. If you keep it away from your elderly population, then those below 60 can recover and then they are immune.

But its probably to late for most countries at this point. All we are left doing now is casting a wide net hoping that will save the most vulnerable and the most likely to clog up hospitals and morgues which eventually trickles down and start making everyone's chances of recovering worse.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

ItemFix - Social Video Factory

Social Video Factory

www.liveleak.com

man what the heck

 

[Kadayi]

Big increase for the UK 5018 (+1035) up from 3983 a 26% rise with over 5842 more tests carried out which equates to about 17.7% confirmed infection in every test . Honestly, I didn't think we'd exceed 5.5 by the weekend, but I expect we'll breach 6K tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how the shutdown impacts things.

@Contica you know there's an ignore thread function right?

 

[Jtibh]

It's a bigger country with far more resources, military, manpower and hospitals.

We shall see in 2 weeks time.

I hope you are right. I hope the states and canada wake the fuck up.

I hope . Thats all there is left.

 

[Alebrije]

Fuck the economy save lives.

You save more lives with a health economy but you do not see deaths of a poor economy on charts daily...Every country os dofferent a rich one can close econony for some time but a 3rd world nope.

 

[holygeesus]

Big increase for the UK 5018 (+1035) up from 3983 a 26% rise with over 5842 more tests carried out which equates to about 17.7% confirmed infection in every test . Honestly, I didn't think we'd exceed 5.5 by the weekend, but I expect we'll breach 6K tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how the shutdown impacts things.

@Contica you know there's an ignore thread function right?

Hospitals are already full. If those infected numbers keep increasing, this is going to be very, very bad and soon.

 

[Airola]

Link to the data?

In Finnish:

Tilannekatsaus koronaviruksesta - THL

thl.fi

In English:

Coronavirus COVID-19 – Latest Updates - THL

thl.fi

This chart can be found in the Finnish page:

 

[Jtibh]

The italian hospital asked the media to show this to the world.
So people can see the tragedy ,so that their goverment and citizens take action now before THIS will happen to them.

 

[Lukin1978]

So far 126 cases here in Calgary waiting for today's update.
Walmart and other stores packed with people like usual.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Are you assuming that more than 1% of the world's population have it by now, though? The growth can simultaneously be exponential and still only affect a very small percentage of the world's population atm. It's not like it's gonna double, then quadruple in a matter of days. We are talking many weeks, even months, ahead.

No, what I'm confused about is why the rate of infection does not seem to be rising (not that I want it to). For growth to be exponential, then wouldn't the rate of infection also have to grow? Was this always capped at (for example) 77,000,000 (1% of the world's population) potential infections and within that capacity the rate will either be exponential or controlled to be more gradual? I'm just trying to make sense of the math behind what's being claimed.

 

[cryptoadam]

In Finnish:

Tilannekatsaus koronaviruksesta - THL

thl.fi

In English:

Coronavirus COVID-19 – Latest Updates - THL

thl.fi

This chart can be found in the Finnish page:

Thanks appreciate it.

Could be a reason why so far only 1 dead, and you said the dead was an old person right?

You will lose people in that 40-60 age group can't stop that at this point. What your country should try and do is reduce the 50+ as much as possible to minimize the stress on your hospital system. I would be concerned about that 50-59 group as it is a big %.

 

[darkinstinct]

Hospitals are already full. If those infected numbers keep increasing, this is going to be very, very bad and soon.

That's not an if. If the UK were to implement a lockdown today, the numbers would increase for another week without reduction and for another week after that with a slight reduction. There are already 10x as many people infected as the ones that they test because of symptoms. And all 45.000 of them spread the virus.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

If you are a country at the begining of this I would lockdown anyone over 70, put serious restrictions on those 60-70. And then everyone else practice social distancing and shelter at home as much as possible along with hygenic measures. If you keep it away from your elderly population, then those below 60 can recover and then they are immune.

There's enough 45+ to collapse hospitals if they get the virus. Do you lock them down too?

I serously cannot fathom the arrogance that people exhibit in this forum thinking they're better at finding medical solutions that doctors and epidemiologists. Seriously, don't you think governments were presented with these partial lockdown scenarios? Don't you think that they would've preferred partial lockdowns to the current situation?

I'm fucking done trying to argue some sense into the knuckleheads.

 

[holygeesus]

No, what I'm confused about is why the rate of infection does not seem to be rising (not that I want it to). For growth to be exponential, then wouldn't the rate of infection also have to grow? Was this always capped at (for example) 77,000,000 (1% of the world's population) potential infections and within that capacity the rate will either be exponential or controlled to be more gradual? I'm just trying to make sense of the math behind what's being claimed.

There is literally no way to get accurate transmission numbers as only a fraction of people are being tested. It means nothing unless you are testing everyone every day.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What disturbs me most is the seemingly small recovery numbers :/

It seems to take at least two weeks for full recovery in most cases. Also, I imagine tracking for recovery is a very low priority. It's easy to track people who are hospitalized, but not so easy to track people who caught it and just stayed home throughout the whole thing and never even got tested for it.

There is literally no way to get accurate transmission numbers as only a fraction of people are being tested. It means nothing unless you are testing everyone every day.

But if the numbers of people getting it were growing exponentially, wouldn't the ratio of positives also be going up, especially since lots of countries are testing exclusively for people who show symptoms or are working as medical professionals?

 

[cryptoadam]

So far 126 cases here in Calgary waiting for today's update.
Walmart and other stores packed with people like usual.

Wera at 181 in QC, so expect a big jump in AB since you guys were always tracking ahead of us. Our health officials though said to expect a jump in cases over the next few days because of the increased testing.

My sister lives out in Calgary FML.

Were probably a week away from a national lockdown, should just do it now and get it over with.

 

[Airola]

Thanks appreciate it.

Could be a reason why so far only 1 dead, and you said the dead was an old person right?

You will lose people in that 40-60 age group can't stop that at this point. What your country should try and do is reduce the 50+ as much as possible to minimize the stress on your hospital system. I would be concerned about that 50-59 group as it is a big %.

Yeah, my cousin who's in her earlier 30's probably has Corona. The symptoms match and her doctor said so too, but they don't test her because she's not in the risk group. It's to reduce the stress of hospitals.

I think we've been able to take extreme enough measures early enough so things are even a bit under control, althought it's predicted it will get much worse. But so far it's relatively ok.

EDIT: the exact number of current infections is 521 here (we have around 5 million people in Finland if you want to know that).

 

[Lukin1978]

Wera at 181 in QC, so expect a big jump in AB since you guys were always tracking ahead of us. Our health officials though said to expect a jump in cases over the next few days because of the increased testing.

My sister lives out in Calgary FML.

Were probably a week away from a national lockdown, should just do it now and get it over with.

We are at 195 in Alberta an increase of 49 last update I agree with the lockdown before it's too late.

 

[Contica]

@Contica you know there's an ignore thread function right?

I do, but ignoring thread after thread is annoying. Plus, I might wanna check the OP here and there.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

People who are concerned with a world economic collapse should really step up and justify this idea?
China and Korea seemed to have handled things well. Chinese production is opening back up and apparently even apple stores in China.

Most of the world will not or cannot employ the draconian measures that China and South Korea (to a lesser extent) are employing. The places opening back up in China are doing so under government order to do so and you don't deny the government in that country.

This quarantine is a short term thing

The reporting on this is extremely inconsistent. You've got tons of municipalities around the world saying that schools may have to be closed even into the next school year. People can't work if their kids are at home. There's no end in sight with this quarantine business and that's fueling panic. The longer it goes on, the more desperate people are going to get and shit will start popping off, especially if quarantines start being enforced by national guard and military. The stock market in the US has already lost 30% of its value and the potential chaos has not even begun.

I absolutely hope there is no chaos and this thing "blows over" or society learns to accept and deal with it as soon as possible, but there concerns are real.

Second, if you do nothing, you overwhelm the hospital system.

And if you do everything, you drag it out and this thing never goes away. It becomes a permanent fixture of our lives that we manage through therapeutics and hopefully a vaccine. That's probably inevitable at that point, but without either of those things currently existing, people are rightfully kind of worried about when we can find a new "normal."

For the record, I'm not against the measures being put in place right now in the US and in other countries, but we're definitely in unknown territory right now and the wind could blow any direction. Things are dramatically different today than even just a week ago.

 

[cryptoadam]

There's enough 45+ to collapse hospitals if they get the virus. Do you lock them down too?

I serously cannot fathom the arrogance that people exhibit in this forum thinking they're better at finding medical solutions that doctors and epidemiologists. Seriously, don't you think governments were presented with these partial lockdown scenarios? Don't you think that they would've preferred partial lockdowns to the current situation?

I'm fucking done trying to argue some sense into the knuckleheads.

Well i am not saying lock up 70 year olds and 50 and less pretend its spring break and start licking peoples bodies or anything.

What I am saying is the most effected, most deaths, most hospitilized, most in ICU are the elderly. We can look at SK and see that they didn't collapse their system or have 700 people die in a day and it could be safe to assume that the fact that only 10% instead of 40% of their infected are above 70.

Everyone else needs to practice social distancing, there should be shelter at home, closing travel etc.... We should be sanatizing as many surfaces in public as possible, and test/screen as much as possible. This flattens the curve as they say. But keeping old people from getting this will help as well because they need the most care.

Just look at Italy's numbers, it shows that this thing ravaged their old community and that ravaged their hospitals and now people are dying because they can't take it anymore. Its not going to stop the virus, and it won't stop deaths, but it will help with flattening the curve and keeping your health system from collapsing.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Fuck the economy save lives.

It's a balance. Fuck the economy too hard and you lose all the lives.

I've been thinking. Would it be an idea to make a dedicated corona sub forum and shove all the corona stuff in there?

It's honestly getting exhausting, and threads are eveeywhere in every forum and on every website, on all social media, and sometimes you just want a break.

These are pretty unusual and extreme circumstances, so yeah. My two cents.

How about we don't shove the currently most important topic of our times in a sub forum? What is this?

 

[cryptoadam]

We are at 195 in Alberta an increase of 49 last update I agree with the lockdown before it's too late.

BC and Ontario dragging us to the apoloypse LOL.

But AB and QC we gonna not be to far behind at this point. Gotta keep flattening that curve for now.

 

[Croatoan]

I would like to explain Italy to people. I will preface by saying this information comes from a doctor.

Italy's problem is socialized medicine. If you are a smart Italian doctor you leave Italy to go work in a country where you can make more money. This is actually what happens in every county with socialized medicine. The best and the brightest leave because they don't want to work for pennies. This is especially bad in Italy because their economy isn't the best to begin with.

So Italy is doing its best with the b team of under paid doctors and nurses in a country that can barely afford basic healthcare for its citizens.

Meanwhile the US has the best doctors in the world and a well funded private healthcare system that while not fair for poor people is better than any where else in the world.

When people say the American healthcare system is bad they are not taking about quality, they are talking about access. There is a reason wealthy people come to the US for serious medical treatment after all.

Socialized medicine is ok for normal stuff but it gets exposed during crisis for obvious reasons.

But what about Germany you ask?
Germany is hiding their numbers because if someone dies with coronavirus and they have comorbidities they report the comorbidities as the cause if death. That is why their death rate is so low.

 

[jufonuk]

I feel like there is a sword over my head that might drop at any moment. We had nearly a whole week in France on lock down so far everyone seems good.
Will we make it unaffected next week? I hope we make it ok right until either it is declared over or they develop a way to mass test everyone.

so that we can see who had it already and be declared immune as it were.

 

[Stouffers]

Why is the media tearing Trump a new one for his “inadequate” response but have nothing but praise for Washington’s Governor and Cuomo? Inslee STILL hasnt really locked down the state and Cuomo has kept the subways open and acted really late closing the schools.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Why is the media tearing Trump a new one for his “inadequate” response but have nothing but praise for Washington’s Governor and Cuomo? Inslee STILL hasnt really locked down the state and Cuomo has kept the subways open and acted really late closing the schools.

Because the media is full of shit as usual?

 

[Croatoan]

Why is the media tearing Trump a new one for his “inadequate” response but have nothing but praise for Washington’s Governor and Cuomo? Inslee STILL hasnt really locked down the state and Cuomo has kept the subways open and acted really late closing the schools.

The answer is the letter "D"

 

[cryptoadam]

Why is the media tearing Trump a new one for his “inadequate” response but have nothing but praise for Washington’s Governor and Cuomo? Inslee STILL hasnt really locked down the state and Cuomo has kept the subways open and acted really late closing the schools.

You know the answer.

Give me a T
Give me a D
Give me a S

What does that spell?

T-D-S

 

[Breakage]

The latest death count coming out of Italy is crazy. I heard almost 800 have died in the last 24 hours.

 

[Lukin1978]

Because the media is full of shit as usual?

As a Canadian I like the way Trump treats the media zero fucks given

 

[cryptoadam]

And if anyone wants to see the literal if Trump cured cancer you go on ERA thread about Crholonique and Trumps quote. I have never seen a saltier group of people who would rather Trump be wrong and these drugs are useless over him being to optimistic and this thing can actually help.

OK sorry for OT, back to Corona Chan.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The latest death count coming out of Italy is crazy. I heard almost 800 have died in the last 24 hours.

I saw something posted earlier that claimed in Italy, the cause of death for anyone dies in a hospital with Coronavirus patients is listed as "Coronavirus." Not sure of the veracity, and that's still a lot of people dying, but it might explain the abnormally high death rate compared to other nations.

 

[Contica]

How about we don't shove the currently most important topic of our times in a sub forum? What is this?

I'm suggesting adding it as a separate forum in the sense we have a separate politics forum. It's not shoving it anywhere. It's collecting it in one easy to reach and read, and avoid, place.

 

[betrayal]

But what about Germany you ask?
Germany is hiding their numbers because if someone dies with coronavirus and they have comorbidities they report the comorbidities as the cause if death. That is why their death rate is so low.

What? That's not true. Average age of infected and the number of tests (110k+ alone in last 7 days, 160k+ per week possible [which can be further increased]) is the answer.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

what has been going on? Today in Animal Crossing

no social distancing for me

 

[JSoup]

This is a very large thread, so please excuse if this has already been answered, but has anyone else been sent a four minute voice track of some person claiming to be a doctor and going over what has been found thus far? Like showering several times a day and that autopsies have shown that the main problem is the virus is destroying air pathways. My sister sent it to me, but someone else sent it to her and so on.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I am surrounded by animals.

can't come back to this thread and see huge spikes. I am not even watching my local news scared that Connecticut is in deep shit outside

 

[Azelover]

Guys, I'm scared.

I have diabetes. And we're entering autumn here. It's getting cold. And I feel like the system is falling apart. There's isn't enough medication for everybody. And the markets I've been to today are running out of supplies.

Maybe it's just a local thing. But, justifiedly or not, I'm drowning in a very scary feeling right now.

 

[mango drank]

I serously cannot fathom the arrogance that people exhibit in this forum thinking they're better at finding medical solutions that doctors and epidemiologists.

Nothing new. It's a natural human instinct to think you're smarter / more clever than others. If no on exhibited this kind of hubris, civilization would never progress. We'd have no technological progress if no one thought they could do better than what other "sheeple" were already doing. Of course, the instinct by itself is useless: you need a combination of smarts, education, and putting in the effort to test your ideas and bring about improvement (or for you to be proven wrong and fall flat on your ass), for any of it to be worth a damn. Instead, people spout off on forums and pat themselves on the back for being rebel geniuses. Not singling anyone out, it's just funny to see.

 

[Setzer]

I saw something posted earlier that claimed in Italy, the cause of death for anyone dies in a hospital with Coronavirus patients is listed as "Coronavirus." Not sure of the veracity, and that's still a lot of people dying, but it might explain the abnormally high death rate compared to other nations.

Yep, would be nice if they posted actual #'s of people dying from the virus.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yep, would be nice if they posted actual #'s of people dying from the virus.

With most of the hospitals in the country seemingly completely overwhelmed, I doubt they have the ability to really do that right now, unfortunately.

 

[cryptoadam]

I saw something posted earlier that claimed in Italy, the cause of death for anyone dies in a hospital with Coronavirus patients is listed as "Coronavirus." Not sure of the veracity, and that's still a lot of people dying, but it might explain the abnormally high death rate compared to other nations.

There was the article showing 99% had other conditions, so clearly they are tracking corona+other diseases and relaying that info.

I don't doubt some countries are fudging their numbers a bit, but at this point anything above a small amount is impossible. I mean even Iran doesn't have the balls to say they only have 20 dead a day. Only country really doing that right now is NK and well they are NK.

We see the situation in Italy, if other countries were like Italy they wouldn't be able to hide it. We would hear the stories about their hospitals, we would hear about people dying not having room in morgues, transporting bodies to crematoriums etc... With the heightened awarness of Corona outside of NK no country could really get away with it.

Can a country lower their numbers by a few %, sure. By massive amounts I really doubt it, at least not now. maybe 2 months ago but not now.

 

[cryptoadam]

what has been going on? Today in Animal Crossing

no social distancing for me

Someone in Iran forgot to copy paste deaths from yesterday so instead of 149 they have 123.

 

[Jtibh]

As a Canadian I like the way Trump treats the media zero fucks given

What are you talking about.
How can you not pick the soft silky smooth tone with a hint of erotic breathing from trudeou over trump?
And those eyes oooh those puppy eyes...

 

[cryptoadam]

What are you talking about.
How can you not pick the soft silky smooth tone with a hint of erotic breathing from trudeou over trump?
And those eyes oooh those puppy eyes...

Some people just prefer a white guy over a black guy.

 

[SushiReese]

Is the treatment of COV-19 free in the U.S? Would normal people go bankrupt after they receive treatment for cov-19? In most Asian and EU countries the treatment for cov-19 is free.
COV-19 is highly contagious so family-cluster infection would be highly possible, it would be a nightmare family survive from infection and then get hit by disastrous medical bills and economic recession.

Total Cost of Her COVID-19 Treatment: $34,927.43(it's just a treatment of patient with mild symptoms, did not include hospitalization)

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Italy's problem is socialized medicine. If you are a smart Italian doctor you leave Italy to go work in a country where you can make more money. This is actually what happens in every county with socialized medicine. The best and the brightest leave because they don't want to work for pennies. This is especially bad in Italy because their economy isn't the best to begin with.

Because our college system that is mostly funded by taxes, getting college degrees in Spain or Italy is relatively easy since there's no barriers to access. As a result more people finish a medical college degree in Spain that the healthcare system in this country needs. The problem is that in Spain in order to work as a doctor you need to finish specialy training and there's limited access to those since it involves taking residence. Because of that, there's fierce competition for the residence - there's a special access exam and only the best go on to take residence. The rest are left hanging. All in all in Spain becoming a doctor takes 10-12 years of training. Training a doctor in Spain costs 250.000 euros and is over 90% financed by taxes.

However in other european countries like UK, Germany, etc there's no such barrier to specialty training and they are the target of the majority of people with a medical decree emigrating from Spain to another country.*

Italy, like Spain, has a similar residence system and also has an exam to select the best of the best for residence. And thus it also has a contingent of people with a medical degree that end up emigrating to places like UK, Germany or France where they can get their specialty training without competing.

The majority of the developed world with the notable exception of US runs socialised medicine.

*I haven't kept up to date about european medical regulations since about 2013 so it might have changed.

 

[rykomatsu]

No, what I'm confused about is why the rate of infection does not seem to be rising (not that I want it to). For growth to be exponential, then wouldn't the rate of infection also have to grow? Was this always capped at (for example) 77,000,000 (1% of the world's population) potential infections and within that capacity the rate will either be exponential or controlled to be more gradual? I'm just trying to make sense of the math behind what's being claimed.

The rate (percentage) may be constant, but because it is a percentage, the growth is not linear.

For example 1-2-3-4-5-6 is a growth rate of 1 person

But assume a growth rate of 100%...that sequence becomes
1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024

The rate of 100% is unchanged, however.

 

[Jtibh]

Some people just prefer a white guy over a black guy.

I call him smoothie.

The one from happy. For his smooth genitals