Metroiddarks
Member
Anexanhume from Era found this, looks is related to PS5 (maybe the geometry engine ?)
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10510183.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10510183.pdf
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
The same reason why people don't round SeX 12.155 up to 12.2. Most people just call it flat at 12.
Most people don't get mad at 0.1 or 0.2 decimals.
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You can only do so much with a 399 budget and a release in 2019, he did a excellent job in that regard, to bad that component pricing rose because of the complicated design.
SgtCaffran
Member
Read my post here on project Acoustics and the Tempest Engine:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/next...leaks-thread.1480978/page-1567#post-257499912
It might be that the tempest engine allows for audio Ray tracing but so far they haven't really made this clear.
SgtCaffran
Member
Please stop this nonsense. Audio is crucially important for game immersion and many people have high end headphones and surround sets for this reason. Unfortunately in the past generation - like Cerny already explained - it was not given the attention it deserves.
This will be fixed with the PS5 and I am very happy that they are doing this! The audio with the PSVR is amazing, you should experience that some day.
B_Boss
Member
Wow! AMD is bullying Microsoft into making better contracts, yet some think they have the upper hand. Not to mention that Cerny and on the video it's said that Sony actually helped them shape their RDNA2. That's something. And again, the Tempest Engine will offload the audio calculations, and XSX doesn't even have fiber optic audio out
That was absolutely awesome to learn indeed
.
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I always felt audio was the most important part!
Shmunter
Member
You’d expect so. Waiting on someone with the proper know how to confirm.
Rudius
Member
Also makes the console run loud as butt. How am I supposed to dream like that?No, $39,99
pasterpl
Member
for me I would like to see new forza horizon, halo, halo wars, battlefield (but would love to see something like battlefield 4), fable, new ghost recon (series cannot get worse than breakpoint), proper next gen deus ex would be awesome, new wipeout will get me salivating as well, new Elder scrolls, cyberpunk etc. I am also very curious about what naughty dog or Ssm will create on ps5.
and let’s not forget about potential new ips from ms game studios.
exciting times
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Do we know for certain the XSX has 80 ROPs?
No we dont, very likely does not.
80 rops, 52 CUs would be one packed a very expensive GPU, and would push the Series X price past $450.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Not to mention that by mid-generation and later, even a lot of multi-platform games looked better on PS3. Like the Mass Effect games. Once devs got a handle on that hardware, it proved a lot more capable than people had thought!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because that would be wasted power. Plus, how do you know fixed clocks are always better for consoles?
Sinthor
Gold Member
I don't see what MS would benefit from releasing a lesser capable machine at $299 or less for. Besides killing their sales for the XBsX, of course. If MS wants to start competing with Nintendo, that would be a big shift for sure!
Seriously think about it. How does the average consumer figure that both boxes run the same games, but please spend $200 more on the more expensive box? For what? If it runs so much less in resolution, etc., then just get an XB1X. If it doesn't...what's the XBsX for again?
Just doesn't make sense. Could happen but it will shock me if it does.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I'm not mad. It's just silly. If you are going to use the decimal, at least get the rounded number right.
xool
Member
No actually a little less, because of the 'meta data' tax that all SDD have (just like USB flash)
geordiemp
Member
I dont full understand the logic either, but I interpret other posts like this.
Say for 99% of the time at 2.13 Ghz its running fine, 1 % when it sees certain commands like AVX ? it heats up and needs 2 Ghz for like half a frame to handle heat and the CPU lends a hand
Or it runs at 1.9 ghz all the time ?
Also when people say all the time, these are GHz so there are many cycles to play with in 1 frame, so it all happens quickly.
If someone can explain it better then great
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SgtCaffran
Member
Yes, the way I understand it is that the technology is now new. There is a new hardware chip in the XsX specifically for project Acoustics, though.
SgtCaffran
Member
Read my post about what they are:
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
The only thing I think people are confused about is the Tempest Engine in PS5. Digital Foundry said they took a Navi RDNA GPU Compute Unit and modified to act more like an SPU (like PS3 Cell) so it has no caches etc. If this is true, then Tempest Engine should be able to do audio ray tracing...
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
Xbox Series X to PS5 Power Difference 'Quite Staggering'
An ex-Sony game designer shares that he's heard developers say the Xbox Series X advantage over the PS5 is 'quite staggering.'
gamerant.com
Couldn’t care a less. I’ll be getting both at launch.
In the Road to PS5 presentation there is a slide during the ray tracing segment that shows an icon for audio. Cerny also mentions audio ray tracing during his closing remarks.
Also, during the Tempest section he mentions support for convolution reverb which is what simulates sound signature of environments. Project Acoustics is essentially convolution reverb + ray tracing.
xool
Member
It's actually 7nm+ so wattages are a little down (I think XsX is 180W total) .. but like the data shows it's literally 2x power going from 1.8 to 2.1+GHz . Guessing around 230W (instead of 265W)to me this confirms the fact that the ps5 gpu is probably 9.2 tflops and the variable clocks are mostly likely never hit.
i am expecting at least a 30% difference in resolution, and maybe even some ray tracing sacrifices.
looking at the simulating gonzalo chart, a 2.23 ghz gpu would be over 250w by itself on rdna 1.0. on rdna 2.0, thats 165w. thats the entire power consumption of the x1x minus 5w. this is before the cpu, before the ram, the ssd and other items on the board. we are looking at a 265w system. xbox on the other hand should come in around 100w for the gpu, and 200w for the entire system. 2.23 is a pipe dream.
..
Makes we wonder about that Sony cooling patent. The SSD patent seems to have made it into the console. I never thought they were serious about through chip cooling, now I'm not so sure.
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
SO fellas, i dont care much for console war etc, but what type of graphical leap are we looking at with ps5 specs? can we expect photo mode level graphics?
xool
Member
No. SDD are built in chunks of 256/512/1024 GiB etc (GB binary) - they report less (in GiB) because of "over provisioning", "wear levelling data structures" and other OS specific data structures that take up memory. Windows uses GiB but says GB, other OSs may be different
No they don't, Not for SSD. (for spinning HDD yes) - see the tomshardware link about - has a teardown - explains the literal chips inside and what capacities they are
Here: 1TB Samsung drive = 1024 GiB (= 1099.5GB)
It's the same for other SSD drives, inlcuding m2 and NVMe ones ..
(btw that "750GB" drive in the table is actually 768GB, when Sony talks about one of the same capacuty it's 825GB )
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I always get one at launch as my "main" console, last time I made the wrong choice with the Xbox OneXbox Series X to PS5 Power Difference 'Quite Staggering'
An ex-Sony game designer shares that he's heard developers say the Xbox Series X advantage over the PS5 is 'quite staggering.'
Couldn’t care a less. I’ll be getting both at launch.
, and then after 3years I buy the other system when it's a bit cheaper for the exclusives.Although this time I don't think there is a wrong choice. Clearly both are aiming for gamers and great systems.
ZywyPL
Banned
How many? Out of those 150MLN current-gen userbase? Let's be honest, the vast majority uses the TV's build-in speakers, which quite frankly are commonly located actually on the back of all those slim TV sets. If anything, soundbars are getting more and more popular each year, they seem to provide the best balance between the sound quality and required space. It does seem like Cerny have completely ignored what the hell is actually going on the market and just mindlessly pursued his personal vision, just like Kutaragi did with Cell.
Nevertheless, there is still a huge opportunity for SONY with 3D audio, IF PLAYED RIGHT - they should IMO bundle every single PS5 with a decent stereo headset, so that every single PS5 buyer can actually fully experience/utilise the 3D audio tech. Because other then that, I'm afraid this whole fuss around 3D audio will be just a huge market miscalculation, where few people will actually see (hear) its benefits.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Burrito Bandito
Banned
an actual xsx engineer confirmed audio ray tracing on a podcast with Major Nelson.
so this isnt some sort of major ps5 advantage. both will have it. MS just hasnt talked much about it yet because its not a main selling aspect but Cerny felt the need to make a massive deal of it because he had nothing else to talk about
BlacknGold_Blood
Member
But early data leaks showed they did test at a higher bandwidth but decided not to go there. Hopefully this means they found a less costly way to work around the 448GB/sec issue and it won’t bottleneck the system. Someone on era pointed that the most significant thing about the SSD is that Sony had the prototype since 2016. They’ve had all this time to build their entire console around this component and hopefully they got the most out of it.
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M-V2
Member
If this isn't bias shit then I don't what it is.
1. Yeah it doesn't matter, that what some devs & digital foundry said (Teraflop isn't metric)
2. 1.7Tf isn't far off, which is right, we're talking about 16%, if this staggering to you then what would you call it when the difference is 40%??
3. Who needs CU?? That's depend on what you're aiming for, high speed like Sony? Or raw power like MS?
4. Audio king, indeed I can't play games without Audio, anything improves audio is welcoming. No need to downplay it.
5. Then what you say to people who are saying "I'm getting a few pump in resolution"???
I don't expect much from someone who replays to Timdog.
1. Yeah it doesn't matter, that what some devs & digital foundry said (Teraflop isn't metric)
2. 1.7Tf isn't far off, which is right, we're talking about 16%, if this staggering to you then what would you call it when the difference is 40%??
3. Who needs CU?? That's depend on what you're aiming for, high speed like Sony? Or raw power like MS?
4. Audio king, indeed I can't play games without Audio, anything improves audio is welcoming. No need to downplay it.
5. Then what you say to people who are saying "I'm getting a few pump in resolution"???
I don't expect much from someone who replays to Timdog.
xool
Member
T
TommyFisher
got his lifetime ban 22 Mar 2020
Reason : "For obvious reasons. He was never a vetted user to begin with. This was repeated numerously."
llien
Member
Ignoring that we are comparing "max" to "sutained":
12,6 / 10, 28 = 1,1828 => ~18%
And it gets more complicated, as XSeX has 10GB of faster than PS5 RAM and 6GB slower than PS5 RAM.
I'd bet graphics resources will sit in the faster 10GB, increasing the gap a bit further.
That is more than a difference between 2070 super and 2080 super.
How "staggering" is the difference between the said 2 cards is, is subjective of course.
Shmunter
Member
That fast ram is groovy as long as the other ram doesn't get used at all. As soon as the other one gets hit, avg starts dropping over the course of time.
I'm still scratching my head on this one, no idea how it will work out.
llien
Member
We have at least 2GB reserved for the OS, instant replay crap etc. Those will certainly be in that 6GB.
Now, for a game that is using 14GB, how realistic it is to have UI assets that are bigger than 10GB? (given that we can load 2.5GB/sec uncompressed from SSD) I'd say, game devs will be fine with 10GB limit on graphics assets.
Agnostic2020
Member
Ram will be better on PS5. SSD will handle OS as PS5 SSD can hit 22+gb/s for OS functions. thast faster than DDR4 at 15 GB/s. so PS5 will be using more ram for games. sorry to busrt your buble bro lol .
The diffrenece is around 15 to 19% on gpu and 3 to 5% on CPU for XSX and PS5 is better in Ram set up and SSD is 220% of XSx.
X1x was 45%more GPU, 35%more ram, 30% more bandwidth 10% on CPU and yet we barely noticed the difference other than few games.
Ps4 was 41% more gpu 40% faster ram with more bandwisth and we aslo barely noticed any difference other than 900P Vs 1080 P
again this is the closest the 2 consoles have ever been
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? Where in my post did I say XSX did not have it or that PS5 had an advantage? The user I quoted linked to a post where he wrote that Sony made no mention of audio ray tracing or convolution reverb. I was just stating that he was incorrect.
Just because someone is providing info for the PS5 does not mean they are shitting on the XSX.
llien
Member
How so?
PS5 - 16GB 448GB/s
XSeX - 10GB 560GB/s, 6GB 335GB/s
As far as GPU is concerned, all stuff residing in 10GB is the most likely scenario.
Yes, it is. That doesn't help GPU much.
Oh, please stop the "2070 and 2080 and maybe even 2060 are the same" talk.
As visible on the first pages of thsi thread, my expectation from consoles were "between V56 and V64" and gradually moved to "perhaps 5700XT-ish or so".
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
B-But PS5 SSD just means faster loading so this developer is wrong and he works for Sony HQ, right?
Shmunter
Member
It's not that, the issue lies in contention - imagine playing a game for an hour. If 50% of the time during this session the slower ram gets used for o/s, video, or game - doesn't matter; the higher ram cannot be used for more than 50% of the time. It's one or the other - they cannot be used simultaneous.
You will see 'low frequency data' term used a lot around this slow ram. The low frequency means data that is not accessed often - you don't want to access that data often because of the reason above.
Agnostic2020
Member
i told you how man. PS5 will have most of the 16 gb allocated to games due to their SSD hiting 22gb/s which is more than capable to handle OS functions extremely fast(usually they use ddr4 for OS which is 15 gb/s but PS5 doesnt need that as SSD can hit 22+gb/s) VS for XSX 10gb for gpu for games and 3.5 gb for cpu and low level graphical tasks for games and 2.5 gb os.
XSX is rtx2080S and PS5 is RTX2080 only gpu wise. u ll see soon enough that LOD and visual fidelity will be better on PS5 while XSX will have 15% more pixels in a single frame .
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Thats a good post on both but doesn't mention that its specifically mentioned that TEMPEST has leftover power thats programmable by the developers to performs such as reverbs, reflections, etc.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Cerny: this is a custom RDNA2 GPU
Everyone: sounds like RDNA1
I don't know what to think anymore.
Everyone: sounds like RDNA1
I don't know what to think anymore.
Yes.
Agnostic2020
Member
they know what they r doing.its called console warz haha. just like darkinsitnct was saying sony will never say its RDNA2 and when they did he said they r lying . lol ok then
Apollo Helios
Member
Huh Okay so the next gen games better stay approx. the same size -> Textures getting crazy big but also removal of repeated stuff should balance each other off for a good while. 1st part games might get big though with crazy amounts of stuff, better animation and whatnot.
However this is all going to be great for gamers. And I'm not one of those crazies who goes: 'I gotta have all my games on the disk, even the ones I've never played but got from PS+, cause who knows I might play em one day'. I mean I already manage my library and only have the games I currently play on it and all the rest is on the external HDD. So it's no big deal. And I wanna spank those cry babies who throw hissy fits for this kind of disk stuff... ugghhh.
Where is that patent, is there a link? I just saw some drawings based on it but never the actual thing.
M-V2
Member
SSD doesn't help the GPU much but it helps to eliminate any potential bottleneck, that what Cerny talked about in his presentation. SSD also helps in less pop-in, loading times & change game design. there are many benefits to the SSD. You're talking is like the GPU is everything.
llien
Member
I can't find reason in your statements.
Where does that 22GB/s SSD come from?
How is 2.5GB/s (uncompressed) not enough to dynamically load assets?
Why would anyone with 14GB budget (at most) use more than 10GB for graphics assets?
There is no such thing, that can eliminate "any" bottleneck.
All SSD does in Cerny's presentation is drop the need to pre-load graphics assets, since you can load them so quickly and hence it is reducing the size of RAM games need.
Both consoles will have SSD and we have yet to see a use case, when one SSD will work, while the other won't.
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Agnostic2020
Member
its from cerny in the road to PS5 for the 22gb/s figure and even devs who are working on the PS5 dev kits here like
BGs
have mentioned it hits above 20 gb/s which means ram will be in favor of PS5 . 2.4gb/s is not fast enough for os u need minimum of 15 gb/s(like DDR4 ram). I dont understand the rest of your sentence sorry.
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