Bo_Hazem
Banned
Nice explanation of why Sony went with 825GB SSD
Wonderful read, thanks a lot. I was confused myself about why 825GB.
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Wonderful read, thanks a lot. I was confused myself about why 825GB.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Right. It REALLY feels like people are just talking past each other. (I'm also looking at youBo_Hazem , maybe drop the spam a little?)
Both PS5 and XsX have an audio chip but both appear to be for very different purposes. Now remember we do not have the full story for both!
The PS5 chip called the Tempest Engine is a modified RDNA2 (I assume) CU that works similar to a PS3 SPU. Cerny says it is as powerful as all eight Jaguar cores of the PS4 CPU combined. The goal is to process hundreds of audio sources with HRTF, head related transfer functions. This is a method to simulate how our ears change the incoming sounds so that we can pinpoint the location of their source. This works best with simple stereo headphones where the Tempest Engine will convert mono audio from all directions and locations into a combined stereo mix where you should be able to hear the direction and feel the presence (3D audio or binaural audio). However, this does not have anything to do (at least from what has been currently shared) with sound reflections and reverb in rooms.
The Xbox solution already exists and is called project Acoustics. The XsX appears to have a new hardware block meant to work on this solution. The goal of project Acoustics is to calculate the reflections, absorptions and wave interactions of sounds waves in a particular room by means of voxels and the Azure cloud compute servers. These calculations are then simplified by using probes and interpolation for the actual game so that the full calculations do not have to be used. This should give a good representation of actual sound behaviour in rooms and worlds. However, this does not have anything to do with how we perceive 3D audio or binaural audio. The resulting mix will be a "simple" stereo, 5.1, 7.1 or Dolby Atmos signal.
TL;DR
PS5 Tempest Engine
- DOES provide real 3D audio simulation of our ears (sounds direction, locality, presence, PSVR)
- DOES NOT provide room reflections, reverb (indoor, outdoor, caves, etc)
XsX project Acoustics
- DOES provide room simulation for reflections, reverb, etc (indoor, outdoor, caves, etc)
- DOES NOT provide real 3D audio simulation of our ears (sounds direction, locality, presence)
I think the XsX solution can be considered a replacement of raytracing for audio.
Hope this clears some stuff up. If anybody has some more insight please let me know!
Amazing explanation. Thanks a lot.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
It will be a massive leap in details and also geometries= how complex a object can be. Photogrammetry will probably be a thing, games like Witchfire and Starfield will use it. That tech is a huge leap in fidelity just by itself.
Games on SeX and PS5 will be identical, there is no other way around it, some people here are reasoning like it's still PS2 vs Xbox.
In that UE4 demo, it's already clear that a potential high vs max settings difference will be laugable.
The only thing that could make a clear difference is RT, which could be significantly better on SeX.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
NaturaNonFacisSaltus said:
Post from Ree.
What clocks does the XsX really run at? Is it actually a 11 tf console possibly?
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Just search more, because both need optical audio for highest performance. You can still use USB, and the new USB 3.2 can do up to 10Gbps so maybe through that. (USB 3.2 Gen 2 is 20Gbps)
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llien
Member
Uh, was not it about controller theoretical maximum throughput? (to stress there is no bottlneck in controller)
That's the way I remember it (watched it once).
Actual SSDs are:
PS5 - 5.5GB/s (uncompressed, can use Zlib/Kraken, Kraken is about 10% better than zlib)
XSeX - 2.5GB/s (uncompressed, can use Zlib/Something specific for texture compression).
We don't know a single scenario in which throughtput difference matters.
The way Cerny presented it, it allows to design levels differently (avoid including filler transition areas, and instantly load another room, when you turn around).
Now, if that concept doesn't work with XSeX, it will most likely mean that developers would not use this feature at all, (bar Sony develoeprs) because nobody is going to develop levels twice, once separately for Sony (besides, again, Sony exclusives)
Agnostic2020
Member
no he said for some tasks like OS it will hit 22gb/s (ofcourse not for gaming related as those are 5.5 and 9 gb/s). this has nothing to do with 3rd party or 1st party devs. PS5 leverages its own SSD for Operating System. meaning it leaves more ram available to devs for games.
I would argue that not all of those measurements are performance, CUs, Shader Units, and TMUs are the number of physical Shaders, CUs and TMUs not there performance.
22GB/s is the peak output from the decompression block.
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M-V2
Member
That's not my talk, people who have knowledge said that. Devs or tech YouTubers.
Both consoles have SSD, yeah but when one is 220+ higher than the other, isn't the same.
Kumomeme
Member
Talk about 'dreaming wildly', imagine what people could do with Dreams 2 that utilized the streaming speed of PS5's SSD. People could go for whole different level.
Even current Dreams, people already create lot of creative things, even stuff like No Man's Sky inspired game. It could be unforseen big things for sony in future.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
I think that resuming thing is using that 3.5GB of 336GB/s, don't you think?
M-V2
Member
ROPs are known so I don't know why it's in Xbox favor??
Evilms
Banned
Nice graphic, but there's an error on the ROPs and the Pixel rate.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Shot in the dark: could explain why it takes 5 seconds to swap between old games with a 40x SSD?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
geordiemp
Member
Activision artist mentions it over at other place, so SX must be somewhat capable. Artists would have to draw all the additional textures ?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Probably, if it's dedicated for that shit, man, what a waste of resources.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
What would be the impact be on streaming textures and stuff like that for the game if it's also running as RAM for the OS?
SgtCaffran
Member
Because they designed the PS5 and its cooling solution on a fixed power budget. That means they know 100 percent what power the cooler must be able to handle and will probably result in a very quiet PS5.
The power is not constant at constant clocks, it is very much dependent on the load. So the variable clocks are useful to make sure the CPU and GPU combination always stick to the power budget.
Don't mistake this solution for thermal throttling because it's a completely different design philosophy!
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I myself don't care about BC, even PS4 in that regard. I usual treat games like condoms. But I feel like they should invest more for who do care about that. Overall, it's good for their reputation.
jackets with pockets
Banned
Teraflops vs. Performance - The Difficulties of Comparing Videogame Consoles | Matt Phillips @ Medium
A lengthy read from the guy who tweeted this:
A lengthy read from the guy who tweeted this:
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Not believing more like facts. They've done RAM/CPU with that chip, but the GPU side workload is the same. PS5 is the opposite freeing GPU but probably some work at least still needed in the RAM/CPU.
jackets with pockets
Banned
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
That video is basically "what if Death Stranding was made on PS5".
The similarities in scenario and colors are absurd, it really gives you the idea of that game.
pasterpl
Member
you forgot about the audio, that will take another 20%, so xbsex is 9tf. At this rate I think it will end up being 1tf console before launch.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It used Quixel, I guarantee you that. That's the first thing popped in my mind when I saw it before Death Stranding release. Hellblade 2 is using the same library as well. You can do it for free on UE4 as well at home! Faster development with photorealistic aspects.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
The baseline is actually a 1TF console, not much difference, ya know.
XinTniX
Neo Member
People, just consider PS5 as a 3.2Ghz CPU +10.28 TFlops GPU, with a 2.3x faster SSD and no one will get disappointed.
This is probably the most common scenario in-game.
PS5 is clearly a FASTER
SeriesX is clearly more POWERFUL
Now you just need to make your bet on what will represent a better approach for the nextgen gaming development.
This is probably the most common scenario in-game.
PS5 is clearly a FASTER
SeriesX is clearly more POWERFUL
Now you just need to make your bet on what will represent a better approach for the nextgen gaming development.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Anyone who doesn't believe that photorealism is achievable will be shocked severely, and this is not a good timing because we need more beds for coronavirus patients. Those were "HEAVILY" downgraded for PS4/Pro. Just wow! I spent so much time enjoying the sceneries along with the intelligently implemented music of barely known singers/musicians on youtube, especially Low Roar!
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Burrito Bandito
Banned
no, just yet more cope from Sony fanboys
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
In addition, people are not recognizing the variable clocks are a performance benefit, and work in tandem with AMD's Smartshift tech.
If a scene needs more GPU processing power, and isnt taxing on the CPU, some of the power budget is sent to the GPU, boosting performance.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Anyone who doesn't believe that photorealism is unachieveable will be shocked severely, and this is not a good timing because we need more beds for coronavirus patients. Those were "HEAVILY" downgraded for PS4/Pro. Just wow! I spent so much time enjoying the sceneries along with the intelligently implemented music of barely known singers/musicians on youtube, especially Low Roar!
Imho, Death Stranding is a masterpiece that redefined traveling, multiplayer and narrative in videogames. One of the most significant piece of art that use videogames' language as actual comunication instead of only entertainment, since MGS2. I played the fuck out of this, 70 hours of bringing packages seems crazyness but it's real and "it just works". That man is on another level.
Burrito Bandito
Banned
digital foundry has already debunked the myth that ps5 is a “faster” system.
the ssd itself is faster but yet wont yield noticeable difference in-game
If this isn't bias shit then I don't what it is.
1. Yeah it doesn't matter, that what some devs & digital foundry said (Teraflop isn't metric)
2. 1.7Tf isn't far off, which is right, we're talking about 16%, if this staggering to you then what would you call it when the difference is 40%??
3. Who needs CU?? That's depend on what you're aiming for, high speed like Sony? Or raw power like MS?
4. Audio king, indeed I can't play games without Audio, anything improves audio is welcoming. No need to downplay it.
5. Then what you say to people who are saying "I'm getting a few pump in resolution"???
I don't expect much from someone who replays to Timdog.
1. it does matter or no one would ever mention it. face it, it mattered A WHOLE lot when ps4 had the upperhand. Now, go compare benchmarks between gpus with different Tflops, yea they perform different.
2. the difference is closer to 30% considering ps5’s 10.2 number is the theoretical max (while you are reducing the cpu clocks to offset). In the majority of games devs will opt for stability. in the real world its a 9.2 system
3. less CUs also means less ray tracing capabilities and forces higher loads per CU. dude come on, stop it. you fell hard for Cerny’s PR spin
4. hes referencing the fact that no one talked about audio until Cerny and fanboys were forced to in order to distract from everything the ps5 is behind on
5. not sure what you are even saying
Von Hugh
Member
I guess you are just easily amused, my cousin told it was unbearably boring.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It was a chore but a good one, very unique experience, emotional. Fuck gaming if we are not getting such experiences out of them. I've cracked beyond 120 hours with it. It's still pretty limited gameplay-wise, new hardware should provide more of that yet dense gameplay assets and NPC's. We will be amazed as our friend
BGs
expressed. Only few months to go, survive people.
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Im surprised that you have seen the clock / power draw trade off graphs, but no one else has, could you post them?, how else would you know what the power of the console was 'in the real world' ?.
Also, its only a note because its technically tied to CUs but the raytracing is actually based on the TMUs.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
And to add to this:
Let's consider for a moment that all the structures in Death Stranding are slowly fading away, and as the player base will stop building and repairing everything will return to emptiness once again. It's clear that the game is designed is such a way, and it's bold, it leaves you with a partial sense of accomplishment that really embodies the idea of colonialism, as you can't just place a flag and call it a day. Human collaboration needs to be constant and strong, ironically nothing is more important as of right now in the world.
BTW, here are some tests with RDR2. Configuration is Ryzen 3700x + RX 5700 XT.
CPU load is around 40-50% in 1080 P + Medium Settings.
CPU load is around 20% in 4K + Ultra Settings.
At 4K GPU matters more than CPU. AMD SmartShift might be very clever function and it depends how Sony implements it. Everything is up to API and Software.
Visual Mode of a game (4K + RT) will not require Zen 2 at 3.5 ghz. More important is how PS5 API will use Zen 2 cores. DirectX 12 is not the best option out there.
LiquidRex
Member
So if the XSX has 64 ROPs as well as PS5, then the PS5 has an advantage due to clock speed
K.N.W.
Member
[Joke post, I'm a PS fan, I totally believe in Tempest, but I thought and had to write it. Let's just have some fun ]
I guess people don't get the real power of tempest. While playing PS5 games you'll have Cerny's voice next to you, whispering into your ears, convincing you to buy more games. Not only that, since Mark is a reptilian, you'll inherit part of his powers to convince people, and start spreading the PS5 doctrine. Their final goal is to reach Nintendo's headquarters, make them release Mario games on PS5, and control Microsoft's minds, so that they release a firmware update to donwclock XSX to 9.5 TFs. Then, when the whole world will be under control, we'll use our reptilian powers to connect our brains to PS5, making it 15TFs. Tempest is secret sauce.
]I guess people don't get the real power of tempest. While playing PS5 games you'll have Cerny's voice next to you, whispering into your ears, convincing you to buy more games. Not only that, since Mark is a reptilian, you'll inherit part of his powers to convince people, and start spreading the PS5 doctrine. Their final goal is to reach Nintendo's headquarters, make them release Mario games on PS5, and control Microsoft's minds, so that they release a firmware update to donwclock XSX to 9.5 TFs. Then, when the whole world will be under control, we'll use our reptilian powers to connect our brains to PS5, making it 15TFs. Tempest is secret sauce.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Dunno what to say, I guess your cousin is easily bored.
"Boring" means nothing as "fun" means nothing btw, graphics adventures and strategic games exists since 90s as well as Doom Eternal or GTA, you can't even start to compare this style of gameplay with two words.
But, you know, before everything else you should play games instead of let your cousin do it for you.
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Can we please talk about ray tracing for a minute. we know the xsex has around 17-19% faster gpu but how much faster and better is its raytracing compare to the ps5 that can also impact visuals in 3rd party game in favor of xbox series x. Can some people in the know explain how much of a difference we will see in terms of performance can we expect only 15-20% or maybe 40-50% or better raytracing in games on xsex compared to ps5?
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same as the TFLOP difference, maybe a bit more if it becomes bandwidth constrained.
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