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[Mendou]

I knew there was going to be a difference, but nothing to this extent.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

What does it mean that I've gone crazy? (this is how GoogleTranslator translates "BGs got mostly the fuck out")

I didn't know there was so much rivalry between Era and Gaf. I honestly find it absurd / childish (like console warfare).

In my case, I'm not here or there. I am on both sides. But if I write more here than in Era, it is simply a matter of practicality. I could write there more, but like most of my ads are from Gaf as I come here directly first. And when I have Era notices I write there.

You will see few real Insiders wasting time on absurd discussions on the forums. We have enough work in our day to day. If I decided to register, it was to fill in the empty spaces that public transport generated in this current stage of my life (which one day will end).

I started writing more here for two factors, first the color of the web (on both sides I use Dark mode) and second because here I can do "Likes" (so you can see the selection system of a professional, absurd, right? No, It's very important). Many times a "Like" is easier than a response, because I am a person who finds it difficult to synthesize, so many times I like to respond quickly without going overboard and without going through the Translator.

Right now I am not writing there or here, as you may have verified, but in the same way "everyone" knows why.

If it were up to me I would duplicate all the messages in both forums, but in my opinion I find it seedy and unnecessary. More when it's known by everyone that I fart here automatically resonates in Era.

And as you can see, I have extended myself unnecessarily. I will take the opportunity to make some quick answers to some quotes.

Someone was asking about the difference between the old DEVs in favor of PS5. The difference was very small. In favor of PS5 because Sony's tools were more advanced in those early stages. As for hardware they were very similar.

Also some asked me about Multiplat games. Do not worry about the Multiplat. In my opinion I think Microsoft has more to fear than Sony in that regard. I think Microsoft will have to loosen the wallet enough so that you can see the difference between one Multi and another.

I've also read that a supposed ex-Sony designer said the power difference between PS5 and XSX is "quite shocking". I don't know in what context he said it or if I misunderstood him. But if it was to say that XSX is far superior to PS5, I disagree. The nonsense of TFs is getting out of hand.

More tomorrow. Or not.

"Fuck out" was an ironic way of saying that you don't post here often, as you said yourself. There wasn't any evil intent in it. No, it doesn't mean "crazy".
Also I've no idea where did you took all the Era vs GAF thing, at least from my post. Just asked if and why there are more devs there, because it seems so.
Thanks for the infos.

 

[Fun Fanboy]

What does it mean that I've gone crazy? (this is how GoogleTranslator translates "BGs got mostly the fuck out")

I didn't know there was so much rivalry between Era and Gaf. I honestly find it absurd / childish (like console warfare).

In my case, I'm not here or there. I am on both sides. But if I write more here than in Era, it is simply a matter of practicality. I could write there more, but like most of my ads are from Gaf as I come here directly first. And when I have Era notices I write there.

You will see few real Insiders wasting time on absurd discussions on the forums. We have enough work in our day to day. If I decided to register, it was to fill in the empty spaces that public transport generated in this current stage of my life (which one day will end).

I started writing more here for two factors, first the color of the web (on both sides I use Dark mode) and second because here I can do "Likes" (so you can see the selection system of a professional, absurd, right? No, It's very important). Many times a "Like" is easier than a response, because I am a person who finds it difficult to synthesize, so many times I like to respond quickly without going overboard and without going through the Translator.

Right now I am not writing there or here, as you may have verified, but in the same way "everyone" knows why.

If it were up to me I would duplicate all the messages in both forums, but in my opinion I find it seedy and unnecessary. More when it's known by everyone that I fart here automatically resonates in Era.

And as you can see, I have extended myself unnecessarily. I will take the opportunity to make some quick answers to some quotes.

Someone was asking about the difference between the old DEVs in favor of PS5. The difference was very small. In favor of PS5 because Sony's tools were more advanced in those early stages. As for hardware they were very similar.

Also some asked me about Multiplat games. Do not worry about the Multiplat. In my opinion I think Microsoft has more to fear than Sony in that regard. I think Microsoft will have to loosen the wallet enough so that you can see the difference between one Multi and another.

I've also read that a supposed ex-Sony designer said the power difference between PS5 and XSX is "quite shocking". I don't know in what context he said it or if I misunderstood him. But if it was to say that XSX is far superior to PS5, I disagree. The nonsense of TFs is getting out of hand.

More tomorrow. Or not.

It's more than just TF's that makes the XSX superior to the PS5. Are you guys really going to do this the whole gen? Now we get to hear all this until games come out. 3rd party games will show they play best on the XSX, and I fear that there will be something else to spin.

And quote this.. all of you! When PS5 Pro comes out. TF's will matter again. Book it!

Now everyone stay safe out there. Corona is no joke!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Reading some of comments here one have to come to conclusion that ms engineers are a joke, and don’t know anything about building consoles, and Cerny is obviously a genius. SDF at its “best”. Lol.

MS engineers are a joke, seriously. Windows destroys anything it lands on, ask Nokia.

Nokia's Big Problem is Windows Phone | Digital Trends

With Windows Phone, Nokia is in competition with itself, as it controls 85 percent of the market, thanks to its fellow manufacturers ignoring it. Can it survive with only Nokia working on its behalf, or will Nokia find itself with another dead OS?

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[Bo_Hazem]

And to add to this:
Let's consider for a moment that all the structures in Death Stranding are slowly fading away, and as the player base will stop building and repairing everything will return to emptiness once again. It's clear that the game is designed is such a way, and it's bold, it leaves you with a partial sense of accomplishment that really embodies the idea of colonialism, as you can't just place a flag and call it a day. Human collaboration needs to be constant and strong, ironically nothing is more important as of right now in the world.

After all the deep talk...

 

[FranXico]

MS engineers are a joke, seriously. Windows destroys anything it lands on, ask Nokia.

Nokia's Big Problem is Windows Phone | Digital Trends

With Windows Phone, Nokia is in competition with itself, as it controls 85 percent of the market, thanks to its fellow manufacturers ignoring it. Can it survive with only Nokia working on its behalf, or will Nokia find itself with another dead OS?

www.digitaltrends.com

So sad. And they went through so much trouble to get their hands on Nokia in the first place.

But hey, at least all that Windows money kept Xbox around all these years. Good stuff!

 

[DrDamn]

I know it can be tricky to tell from a video, but PS5 just seemed more responsive and fun

 

[Burrito Bandito]

MS engineers are a joke, seriously. Windows destroys anything it lands on, ask Nokia.

Nokia's Big Problem is Windows Phone | Digital Trends

With Windows Phone, Nokia is in competition with itself, as it controls 85 percent of the market, thanks to its fellow manufacturers ignoring it. Can it survive with only Nokia working on its behalf, or will Nokia find itself with another dead OS?

www.digitaltrends.com

the surface and and the one x are better pieces of hardware than anything comprable at sony. just saying.

 

[joe_zazen]

I hope thus new gen changes a bit that mentality on PC too.

Is good to have big penis? Yes it is great.
But it is even better to know what do do with the penis.... if big then amazing.

what if you marry a small vagina?

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

After all the deep talk...

Like if Crackdown 3 on X looks better than Death Stranding on base PS4 lmao

 

[FranXico]

the surface and and the one x are better pieces of hardware than anything comprable at sony. just saying.

The poster you quoted was joking about software. Just saying.

BTW, disclaimer: Everything Sony makes is shit.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

the surface and and the one x are better pieces of hardware than anything comprable at sony. just saying.

Sony TV's and Cameras are better pieces of hardware than anything comparable at Microsoft.

Plus, Samsung fridge is better than Xbox Series X.

Nissan Patrol is better than Windows OS.

Spoiler

Take it, I don't need it

 

[MarkMe2525]

So I finally had some time listen to the DF talk on PS5 specs. Not gonna lie, I'm much more convinced that it'll be one beast of a machine now. Sort of reminds me of the differences between Android and iPhone.

One goes for raw power, while the other goes lean and specialized. Third party games are gonna be a huge deciding factor for me. I'd like to start with PS5 on day one if they'll be comparable enough.

iPhone has an incredibly powerful GPU as their soc outclasses all of the competition. There is no lean and mean when it comes to apples soc. That thing is huge.

 

[Zoradeity]

Oh, this is even better :



EDIT ; and that first response tweet below. LOL

"Super tiny temporary"... lol. Dudes like him make me wonder if Sony made a mistake calling this variable frequency/continuous boost. I get that they have to be transparent about it but Cerny explained a 10% reduction in power consumption doesn't reduce the clocks by more than a few percent. Not that this would stop any fanboy from spreading their own narrative.

 

[FranXico]

"Super tiny temporary"... lol. Dudes like him make me wonder if Sony made a mistake calling this variable frequency/continuous boost. I get that they have to be transparent about it but Cerny explained a 10% reduction in power consumption doesn't reduce the clocks by more than a few percent. Not that this would stop any fanboy from spreading their own narrative.

They absolutely did. Cerny tried to be specific and avoided lying. Save for that "58 PS4 CUs" rubbish (ROFL). Obviously, Sony is getting burned now as everybody questions anything they say while taking marketing liberties such as "25TFs" or "ALL Xbox One games playable" from the competition at face value.

We'll see.

 

[pasterpl]

MS engineers are a joke, seriously. Windows destroys anything it lands on, ask Nokia.

Nokia's Big Problem is Windows Phone | Digital Trends

With Windows Phone, Nokia is in competition with itself, as it controls 85 percent of the market, thanks to its fellow manufacturers ignoring it. Can it survive with only Nokia working on its behalf, or will Nokia find itself with another dead OS?

www.digitaltrends.com

lots of companies have batter and worse products (even Sony had some big flops over the years, not mentioning likes of google)

re. Your comment, eg. surface devices are beautiful and top of the market when it comes to design, hardware specs and reliability, azure cloud is second only to aws(even Sony signed a deal with ms for the cloud gaming infrastructur), ms office is a standard for enterprise etc.

I know that you might not like ms, but at least try to be a bit more open minded

 

[Metroiddarks]

I am prepare to see fans on both side (PS5 and XSX) say the new gen of games (the first years) looks very similar than the last one (the top of graphics in the end of this gen).

We all know each time requires much more processing power and technologies in order to make a big difference in graphics compare than the last iterations.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I stopped bothering when you said 9.2tf do you know why?? Because that number is only mentioned by Xbox fanboys not by Mark Cerny, digital foundry, devs or tech YouTubers.

Do you know what the conclusion is?? That number came to fit your narrative, it has nothing to do with real world numbers.

It's actually 9.6TF for XSX when that audio hits hard.

Xbox Series X features a dedicated audio chip, confirms Microsoft

Let's set the record straight.

www.windowscentral.com

This has been thoroughly discussed. It only offloads RAM/CPU and their work, GPU still needed as always. It's a smart move to fight back RAM starvation. The Tempest Engine is a separate GPU-based unit that does all the audio work off the main GPU, resulting in freeing up to 20% workload from the main GPU to work only on visuals. It's so advanced that Dolby Atmos looks like a midget with its 32 max sound sources, capable of potentially 5,000 sound sources, but limiting it to hundreds that make you hear every fucking droplet in a rainy weather game.

 

[saintjules]

While minor, the PS5 site was recently updated (sorry if double post)

PlayStation®5 | Play Has No Limits | PlayStation

Everything you need to know about the PlayStation®5 console and PlayStation®5 Digital Edition with a new slim PS5 design. The best PS5 games, PS5 accessories, and the DualSense wireless controller.

www.playstation.com

 

[Okami Haundo]

Dumb question, but how do currently available SSD read/write speeds compare to the XsX and PS5 solutions?

 

[ethomaz]

PS5 16 GB GDDR6 @ 14 Gbit/s + 256 Bit

16 GB @ 1750 MHz = 448 GB/s


Xbox Series X 16 GB GDDR6@ 14 Gbit/s + 320 Bit

10 GB @ 1750 MHz = 560 GB/s
6 GB @ 1050 MHz = 336 GB/s

I don't thin that is right... actually I think that is hard to be possible.

Xbox has 10 memory modules.... 6 x 2GB and 4x 1GB.
There is no way to any of them run at lower frequency half of the memory.... so it could have 4 modules at lower speed but if you have 6 modules at lower speed you will end with 12GB at lower speed.

What happens is that the 2GB modules the late 1GB shares have slower access dure sharing that 32bits bus.

 

[quest]

iPhone has an incredibly powerful GPU as their soc outclasses all of the competition. There is no lean and mean when it comes to apples soc. That thing is huge.

People also like to leave out apple controls the OS and environment with an iron fist. There is no shen's going on like on Android where manufacturers can add as much crap and launchers as they want. It is really a shitty comparison but I guess anything to make them feel better. Hell lets use piss poor made hp PC with 20gigs of factor bloatware vs a pc with clean linux install.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

lots of companies have batter and worse products (even Sony had some big flops over the years, not mentioning likes of google)

re. Your comment, eg. surface devices are beautiful and top of the market when it comes to design, hardware specs and reliability, azure cloud is second only to aws(even Sony signed a deal with ms for the cloud gaming infrastructur), ms office is a standard for enterprise etc.

I know that you might not like ms, but at least try to be a bit more open minded

Microsoft happens to be pretty good at housing many licenses or people would've went with Ubuntu for example or other Linux-based systems. As for laptops, Apple is still the best here and its OS but ridiculously priced. Surface still suffers from the heavy Windows OS, comparing it to the likes of iPad is just not fair at this point.

Cloud? I don't read into that honestly. Xbox uses Windows-based system, it needed tutoring from AMD to make DXR and DX12 assumingly work. 2.5GB of RAM for system? Yes, smart system. Remember that when those systems are released will know more about the lighter/better API.

 

[Okami Haundo]

iPhone has an incredibly powerful GPU as their soc outclasses all of the competition. There is no lean and mean when it comes to apples soc. That thing is huge.

Terrible comparison then on my part then. Apologies as this seems to have stirred up some more console-war nonsense.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Dumb question, but how do currently available SSD read/write speeds compare to the XsX and PS5 solutions?

You can find similar or better than the XSX and for now slower than the PS5.

But main problem for now in PC (this will change in the next years) the amount of processing power from the cpu to
maintain those speeds are ridiculous so you will need some power of your cpu only for that.

Finally most of the user of pc think they ssd is enough but those ssd sata 3 are around .55 GB/s compare to the consoles (2.4 GB/s, 5.5 GB/s) that is very slow.

This will change in a couple of years and again the pc will have the crown of this.

 

[DaGwaphics]

It's not like that, the memory of the XSX is divided into :

6 chips of 2GB
4 chips of 1GB

For a total of 16 GB GDDR6 @ 14 Gbit/s, which makes 10 x 32 bit chips for a single 320-bit bus.

There's no 192-bit bus.

The bandwidth is shared like this :

6 GB @ 1050 MHz (standard memory) for 336 GB/s
10 GB @ 1750 MHz (optimal memory) for 560 GB/s

The speed of all chips is the same.

When you access 10 chips (the 1GB common among all), you are at 560GB/s. When addressing the 1GB that exists only on the 6 2GB chips, you are at 336GB/s (you only have access to that memory across 6 32bit conrollers: 192bit).

 

[pasterpl]

whats that game on the left? It looks fun

 

[ghausst]

You can find similar or better than the XSX and for now slower than the PS5.

But main problem for now in PC (this will change in the next years) the amount of processing power from the cpu to
maintain those speeds are ridiculous so you will need some power of your cpu only for that.

Finally most of the user of pc think they ssd is enough but those ssd sata 3 are around .55 GB/s compare to the consoles (2.4 GB/s, 5.5 GB/s) that is very slow.

This will change in a couple of years and again the pc will have the crown of this.

With Sony's way of uprgading the SSD in ps5, they'll keep being in good position, i think.
until their custom parts can't follow the SSDs.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

whats that game on the left? It looks fun

Toy Story. Only played part of it in Kingdom Hearts 3 but I think this is another game.

 

[ResilientBanana]

8TF GCU 1.0

4 x 1.8TF GCN PS4 = 7,2TF

8TF GCU 1.0
8TF GCU 1.0
8TF GCU 1.0
8TF GCU 1.0

I have a response later on.

 

[Neo Blaster]

It's almost 1 whole Playstation 4 more power. So after 4K eats 8TFLOPS(Cerny's Prediction), the XSX will have around 4TFLOPS to work with for next-gen fidelity. Oddly enough, that's Lockhart's predected TFLOP number for 1440p.

Mark Cerny Said Atleast 8TFLOPS Are Needed For True Native 4K - page 4 - System Wars - GameSpot

The PS4 Pro is going to use a variety of techniques to hit 4K resolution for gaming, but it’s not a true 4K machine- it cannot render most of its games in 4K natively. On the other hand, Microsoft claim that the Xbox One Scorpio, their mysterious new

www.gamespot.com

Diminishing returns, man, Pro/X delta was also equivalent to a PS4 and we already didn't see such a great difference.

 

[ethomaz]

what if you marry a small vagina?

I will need to ask her first what she want

 

[ResilientBanana]

MS engineers are a joke, seriously. Windows destroys anything it lands on, ask Nokia.

Nokia's Big Problem is Windows Phone | Digital Trends

With Windows Phone, Nokia is in competition with itself, as it controls 85 percent of the market, thanks to its fellow manufacturers ignoring it. Can it survive with only Nokia working on its behalf, or will Nokia find itself with another dead OS?

www.digitaltrends.com

Not going to lie, the Windows Phone 8.1 (Nokia Lumia 920) was the best phone I've ever owned. After it died I owned a Galaxy S8 and an iPhone X and as far as useability, snappyness and battery Windows Phone was on top. The name is what killed it.

 

[ethomaz]

The speed of all chips is the same.

When you access 10 chips (the 1GB common among all), you are at 560GB/s. When addressing the 1GB that exists only on the 6 2GB chips, you are at 336GB/s (you only have access to that memory across 6 32bit conrollers: 192bit).

I think is more how it works.

There is no way half of the module runs at different frequency lol

People made up that I will say impossible setup... who made up that 1050Mhz a have no ideia of what he is taking about.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

what if you marry a small vagina?

That's a real problem though, but you can be creative with your approach to avoid hitting that sensitive end (RAM).

 

[ResilientBanana]

Diminishing returns, man, Pro/X delta was also equivalent to a PS4 and we already didn't see such a great difference.

Due to parity. No one could just design for the Pro/X but they brough current-gen games to 4K with better effects.

 

[SonGoku]

Yes, the way I understand it is that the technology is now new. There is a new hardware chip in the XsX specifically for project Acoustics, though.

I read your post but there's no info that suggests the SEX audio chip will handle audio RT
Project Acoustic engine can be used for the CPU & GPU as well, its more likely audio rt will be handled by gpu rt hardware for both consoles

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Not going to lie, the Windows Phone 8.1 (Nokia Lumia 920) was the best phone I've ever owned. After it died I owned a Galaxy S8 and an iPhone X and as far as useability, snappyness and battery Windows Phone was on top. The name is what killed it.

It's a shared mindset because many people hate Windows or have bad idea about it because of laptops and desktops. I remember seeing one person with Windows Nokia and said it's shit. But you know, it might mean like Apple vs Android saying shit to each but they are both great anyway and similar overall.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Terrible comparison then on my part then. Apologies as this seems to have stirred up some more console-war nonsense.

All good man. Just bored and wanted to jump in the convo with a good ole "acktuallllyyyy"

 

[it_wasn't_me]

"Super tiny temporary"... lol. Dudes like him make me wonder if Sony made a mistake calling this variable frequency/continuous boost. I get that they have to be transparent about it but Cerny explained a 10% reduction in power consumption doesn't reduce the clocks by more than a few percent. Not that this would stop any fanboy from spreading their own narrative.

Problem is people like didn't listen, probably DELIBERATELY when Cerny stated clearly they expect both CPU and GPU to spend most of their time at their top frequencies. Both are expected to run at their top frequencies and minor downclocks will happen in worst case scenarios.

 

[whoever81]

All right then....Are we going to see or learn anything new before May? I sure hope so. This wait will be even longer...

 

[ethomaz]

The game on left looks so much more fun.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Problem is people like didn't listen, probably DELIBERATELY when Cerny stated clearly they expect both CPU and GPU to spend most of their time at their top frequencies. Both are expected to run at their top frequencies and minor downclocks will happen in worst case scenarios.

Which is a totally subjective claim, as both of us discussed a day or two ago.

If he was so confident in the specs, he'd say PS5 can handle cpu and gpu at max speed all the time, or clarify how often it can and can't.

Saying "most of the time" means nothing and you know it.

Ya, ya. I know. Like the last time you supported Cerny, "most of the time" means 98-99%+, which is total guesswork.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Yeap.

Geometry Engine is the name AMD use while Mesh Sharders are the name used by nVidia and MS.

It does the same functions... when you use Mesh Shaders in DX API it will utilize Geometry Engine in AMD hardware.

So it's the same shit like saying VTC/VTEC/VVT and other names that only mean the same thing.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

The game on left looks so much more fun.

It's the remake Bluepoint is making, finally we know the title...


Black.

 

[RagingTiger]

I feel like all of this back and forth console warring is pointless, Both are going to be great consoles and both are going to have there pros and cons. I'm going to get both anyways. At the end of the day my money is going to go to the console that has the better price , games, and cooling solution.

 

[Disco_]

Anexanhume from Era found this, looks is related to PS5 (maybe the geometry engine ?)
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10510183.pdf

Geometry engine is part of rdna1/rdna2.

It's actually 7nm+

? Neither console in 7nm+. XSX is "7nm enhanced" and we know that's not 7nm+.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

All right then....Are we going to see or learn anything new before May? I sure hope so. This wait will be even longer...

I think they are waiting until after the release of both The Last of Us 2 and then Ghost of Tsushima - it's close to the end of this gen but these are big budget titles that Sony need to do well.

 

[ethomaz]

Another fake or Sony dev.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Where is the 220% SSD thing coming from? I've seen it said a few times. Isn't it 130%?

230% (22GB/s vs 6GB/s), but you say 130% more.