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[SlimySnake]

lol Alex 'Shadows Only Ray tracing' Batallia. He has been downplaying the PS5 since the wired reveal. Used to be a big PC master race guy on gaf before the purge. Check his history. I forget what he used to go by.

Also read his WSJ article on how consoles wont have ray tracing as complex as current gen nvidia cards even though consoles have already confirmed ray traced GI, reflections, and shadows ray tracing.

 

[Fuz]

Said it months ago.

 

[Kamina]

 

[Dory16]

lol Alex 'Shadows Only Ray tracing' Batallia. He has been downplaying the PS5 since the wired reveal. Used to be a big PC master race guy on gaf before the purge. Check his history. I forget what he used to go by.

Also read his WSJ article on how consoles wont have ray tracing as complex as current gen nvidia cards even though consoles have already confirmed ray traced GI, reflections, and shadows ray tracing.

1) Only he XSX will come close to performing ray tracing as well as a 2080 TI. Please re-watch Cerny's presentation if unsure. In his own words, he is "becoming a believer in consoles performing a decent level of ray tracing in a way that does not completely starve the GPU" (I paraphrased a bit). On the other side we have seen path tracing (ray tracing ++) implemented in Minecraft 9 months before the XSX release date

2)Why is Battaglia's previous stance on console ray tracing relevant to his commentary on what Sony and MS officially announced? He analysed the Minecraft RT demo and publicly threw all his pre-existing biases out the window, taking a huge step ahead of you when it comes to objectivity.

 

[SlimySnake]

1) Only he XSX will come close to performing ray tracing as well as a 2080 TI. Please re-watch Cerny's presentation if unsure. In his own words, he is "becoming a believer in consoles performing a decent level of ray tracing in a way that does not completely starve the GPU" (I paraphrased a bit). On the other side we have seen path tracing (ray tracing ++) implemented in Minecraft 9 months before the XSX release date

2)Why is Battaglia's previous stance on console ray tracing relevant to his commentary on what Sony and MS officially announced? He analysed the Minecraft RT demo and publicly threw all his pre-existing biases out the window, taking a huge step ahead of you when it comes to objectivity.

he never said anything about rtx 2080 ti. he was talking about current gen navi cards. no one was expecting 2080ti performance. he was implying that even 2060 was more powerful than what was in the next gen consoles.

im glad he came around after seeing evidence but it doesnt mean we should take his word as gospel. he is as clueless as half of the people in this board.

 

[Great Hair]

e data pulled from the SSD would be static data, and open-world games increase details and variety through procedural methods.

Hence why Sony´s PS5 SSD comes with up to 6 priority levels and seek peak of 22GB I/O unlike the usual 2 (according to Cerny) and the "puny" 4.8Gb/s of modern SSDs. Does that not mean that the developer can pick what to load first, give priority over other assets? Not sure what he meant with procedural methods.

He is literally saying the following "PS5 SSD aint that good".

PS5 SSD
22GB I/O peak/seek
10Gb/s compressed, kraken? or zlib
5.5Gb/s raw
12 Lanes
6 Priority Levels (give certain assets higher priority)

XSX SSD
xxGB I/O peak/seek
4.8Gb/s compressed
2,4Gb/s raw
4 or 8 Lanes
2 Priority Levels

The numbers ALONE clearly show a huge advantage over the other ssds on the market. Proper Developer claiming that it´s a major step, forward leap and it´s the best thing since the invention of shaggy tatas. A youtuber, who has not worked in the industry, who spends his time tweaking pc titles by moving sliders from left to right, is suddenly an expert on this matter?

Who should we believe?

CERNY, an expert, game maker, genius since the 80s, the one mastermind behind Naughty Day and Insomniac Games, PS4&PS5 architect or Alexander Battaglia, a youtuber, who spends his time fiddling around in the graphic options?

Time to give Timy the Dog some credit then. And he should know, without EVERY detail of GPU and CPU&subsystem ... 10 vs 12 means jackshit.

 

[Dory16]

he never said anything about rtx 2080 ti. he was talking about current gen navi cards. no one was expecting 2080ti performance. he was implying that even 2060 was more powerful than what was in the next gen consoles.

im glad he came around after seeing evidence but it doesnt mean we should take his word as gospel. he is as clueless as half of the people in this board.

He's at Digital Foundry (and you're not) for a reason. I will judge him based on what he says based on now publicly available information, not on what Next Gen was imagined to be a long time ago.

 

[Dory16]

Hence why Sony´s PS5 SSD comes with up to 6 priority levels and seek peak of 22GB I/O unlike the usual 2 (according to Cerny) and the "puny" 4.8Gb/s of modern SSDs. Does that not mean that the developer can pick what to load first, give priority over other assets? Not sure what he meant with procedural methods.

He is literally saying the following "PS5 SSD aint that good".

PS5 SSD
22GB I/O peak/seek
10Gb/s compressed, kraken? or zlib
5.5Gb/s raw
12 Lanes
6 Priority Levels (give certain assets higher priority)

XSX SSD
xxGB I/O peak/seek
4.8Gb/s compressed
2,4Gb/s raw
4 or 8 Lanes
2 Priority Levels

The numbers ALONE clearly show a huge advantage over the other ssds on the market. Proper Developer claiming that it´s a major step, forward leap and it´s the best thing since the invention of shaggy tatas. A youtuber, who has not worked in the industry, who spends his time tweaking pc titles by moving sliders from left to right, is suddenly an expert on this matter?

Who should we believe?

CERNY, an expert, game maker, genius since the 80s, the one mastermind behind Naughty Day and Insomniac Games, PS4&PS5 architect or Alexander Battaglia, a youtuber, who spends his time fiddling around in the graphic options?

Time to give Timy the Dog some credit then. And he should know, without EVERY detail of GPU and CPU&subsystem ... 10 vs 12 means jackshit.

Lol, let's shoot down the messenger shall we?
That persistent storage can only be used for static data is as naked a fact as it will ever be. If Cerny says otherwise, he is lying and no need to have designed a console to know that. You guys are the same people who were laughing in the face of Microsoft's engineers (rightfully so) when they were saying that DDR3 is somehow a better RAM choice that DDR5. And you didn't have any computer engineering degrees back then.

It doesn't matter how many priorities are in Sony's SSD. It takes a lot of time, artists, designers and money to fill a SSD with the only type of data that it is used for: static environmental stuff. That's why the industry has moved towards procedural generation of assets in open world games, including... Sony studios (see Horizon Zero dawn). By the way, you and I never saw the same raccoons or the same boars at the same place when we were hunting in Horizon. That's what made the game's environments so diverse and special and yes you got it by now, they weren't streamed from the PS4's hard drive

 

[SlimySnake]

He's at Digital Foundry (and you're not) for a reason. I will judge him based on what he says based on now publicly available information, not on what Next Gen was imagined to be a long time ago.

he was on his board for years before that. The only difference between him and me is that He was at digital foundry and let his pc elitist bias blind him from what console makers were saying about rt.

He is fucking clueless.

 

[hunthunt]

Interesting.

Has he worked in Rockstar Games or Insomniac?

 

[Airbus Jr]

Dont you guys have something elseto do now?

Like avoiding coronavirus ?

these ps5 and xbox talks is getting tiresome

 

[Three]

GTA6 is procedurally generated? Cool I didn't know that DF. Sure the low cost games make procedurally generated worlds because they take the low cost approach and don't hire as many artists.

When it comes to big budget next gen games though? No, you're full of shit really.

Think of GTA5, what single thing did it severally suffer from? You guessed it long loading screens everywhere. You go inside your apartment? Long loading screen. You go to some other part of the map? Long loading screen. Imagine a GTA6 where you can just walk into your apartment, not look at the door for 5 minutes while it loads it.

 

[Great Hair]

Lol, let's shoot down the messenger shall we?

That's what made the game's environments so diverse and special and yes you got it by now, they weren't streamed from the PS4's hard drive

AKA the static data?asset in this case the boar was loaded in the vram and based on some algorithm placed arbitrary on the map. IS that what you are saying?

It´s still the same boar, with the same color and same size, 1:1 carbon copy ... just with a different starting point on your playthrough. The assets still need to be loaded, as fast as possible. Having high I/O seek/low access time is not good? The data needs to be unpacked, as fast as possible? and loaded to the vram, ready for the gpu.

If the SSD is 3x slower, the data takes 3x longer to reach its final destination? It might not have any effect on tiny assets, but on big levels ... the PS5 might be able to load the whole game at once, while the XSX has to load in between ... a few times.

A random youtuber, who has 1 or 2 videos up per month talking how great, how bad crysis looks, does not get my vote.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Hence why Sony´s PS5 SSD comes with up to 6 priority levels and seek peak of 22GB I/O unlike the usual 2 (according to Cerny) and the "puny" 4.8Gb/s of modern SSDs. Does that not mean that the developer can pick what to load first, give priority over other assets? Not sure what he meant with procedural methods.

He is literally saying the following "PS5 SSD aint that good".

PS5 SSD
22GB I/O peak/seek
10Gb/s compressed, kraken? or zlib
5.5Gb/s raw
12 Lanes
6 Priority Levels (give certain assets higher priority)

XSX SSD
xxGB I/O peak/seek
4.8Gb/s compressed
2,4Gb/s raw
4 or 8 Lanes
2 Priority Levels

The numbers ALONE clearly show a huge advantage over the other ssds on the market. Proper Developer claiming that it´s a major step, forward leap and it´s the best thing since the invention of shaggy tatas. A youtuber, who has not worked in the industry, who spends his time tweaking pc titles by moving sliders from left to right, is suddenly an expert on this matter?

Who should we believe?

CERNY, an expert, game maker, genius since the 80s, the one mastermind behind Naughty Day and Insomniac Games, PS4&PS5 architect or Alexander Battaglia, a youtuber, who spends his time fiddling around in the graphic options?

Time to give Timy the Dog some credit then. And he should know, without EVERY detail of GPU and CPU&subsystem ... 10 vs 12 means jackshit.

Since you mentioned some stuff about Cerny as comparison to DF analyst, maybe you should add this too. It's really also worth mentioning :

The International Game Developers Association awarded Cerny with the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Game Developers Choice Awards (IGDA) in 2004.[2][14] IGDA stated, "It's rare to find a 'jack-of-all-trades' who not only has the high-level vision for great game design but can act as the glue to adhere all the pieces together. His unusual but highly effective methodology has brought us some of the most entertaining games in history."[15] He was described as "a master collaborator". His Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon games have collectively sold more than 30 million units.[16]

In 2010, at the 13th Annual Interactive Achievement Awards, Mark Cerny was inducted into the Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences Hall of Fame. "Mark Cerny is the closest we have come to a modern-day Da Vinci," said Joseph Olin, then-president of the AIAS. "What he does isn't restricted to a single aspect of game creation, he really is a Renaissance man. He is a diversely accomplished game designer, producer, programmer and technologist, fluent in Japanese and one of the foremost Western experts on the Japanese game market. He's also one of the only top-level independents in a business dominated by institutions."[17]

 

[Dory16]

The data needs to be unpacked, as fast as possible? and loaded to the vram, ready for the gpu

Thanks for making my point. Fast loading is the whole point of this. There is no (yet known) advantage beyond that. Once the XSX GPU and the PS5 GPU have the boar, we all know what will happen faster with a 20 CU difference and a faster memory BUS. Nobody can explain how being able to load 2 boars why the XSX has only loaded one enables better design. It's only speculation that it could load the entire game at once, you don't even know what games we are speaking about. Even Cerny doesn't make that claim. Fast travels and reloads after deaths will be quicker (not even sure if perceptibly). And then it's welcome back to the choppier frame rates and lower resolution.

Having high I/O seek/low access time is not good?

Never said that.

 

[V4skunk]

Stopped reading at
"The PlayStation 5 SSD is among the console's most exciting features, but it will not change open-world games dramatically, at least by itself.

In a recent post on the ResetEra"

 

[Evilms]

wccftech + dictator = 100% biased

 

[ROMhack]

If it makes open world games fun then I'm all for it.

(In)arguably the best open world game exists on the weakest current gen console. Yes, you know what it is.

 

[Goliathy]

Since you mentioned some stuff about Cerny as comparison to DF analyst, maybe you should add this too. It's really also worth mentioning :

wow nice. But he is a consultant right? he isn't a sony employee. I wonder how much sony paid him to design the ps5 lol

 

[Dory16]

Since you mentioned some stuff about Cerny as comparison to DF analyst, maybe you should add this too. It's really also worth mentioning :

I don't know anyone who has Spyro the Dragon or Knack on their memorable games list, never mind "most entertaining of all time" (yes, I've played both). This kind of puff piece is why gamers have lost all trust in corporate bodies and institutions and put their own judgement and instinct at the same level as those of lifelong professionals. So many people were calling Cerny's boost clock design choice out after the reveal, as something thrown in to mask a huge power gap. Counterproductive to say the least.

 

[Three]

Hence why Sony´s PS5 SSD comes with up to 6 priority levels and seek peak of 22GB I/O unlike the usual 2 (according to Cerny) and the "puny" 4.8Gb/s of modern SSDs. Does that not mean that the developer can pick what to load first, give priority over other assets? Not sure what he meant with procedural methods.

He is literally saying the following "PS5 SSD aint that good".

PS5 SSD
22GB I/O peak/seek
10Gb/s compressed, kraken? or zlib
5.5Gb/s raw
12 Lanes
6 Priority Levels (give certain assets higher priority)

XSX SSD
xxGB I/O peak/seek
4.8Gb/s compressed
2,4Gb/s raw
4 or 8 Lanes
2 Priority Levels

The numbers ALONE clearly show a huge advantage over the other ssds on the market. Proper Developer claiming that it´s a major step, forward leap and it´s the best thing since the invention of shaggy tatas. A youtuber, who has not worked in the industry, who spends his time tweaking pc titles by moving sliders from left to right, is suddenly an expert on this matter?

Who should we believe?

CERNY, an expert, game maker, genius since the 80s, the one mastermind behind Naughty Day and Insomniac Games, PS4&PS5 architect or Alexander Battaglia, a youtuber, who spends his time fiddling around in the graphic options?

Time to give Timy the Dog some credit then. And he should know, without EVERY detail of GPU and CPU&subsystem ... 10 vs 12 means jackshit.

He means games like No Mans Sky, where you generate the world or place instances of objects and textures already in memory. Games where you use the CPU to reduce bandwidth needs and RNG to reduce artist costs. Basically old lower budget games, not new games designed for the SSD. SSDs give artists more freedom for more world variety. He is essentially saying devs are lazy and won't make use of it then goes on to suggest "brute force" isn't a thing.

 

[Great Hair]

Thanks for making my point. Fast loading is the whole point of this. There is no (yet known) advantage beyond that. Once the XSX GPU and the PS5 GPU have the boar, we all know what will happen faster with a 20 CU difference and a faster memory BUS. Nobody can explain how being able to load 2 boars why the XSX has only loaded one enables better design. It's only speculation that it could load the entire game at once, you don't even know what games we are speaking about. Even Cerny doesn't make that claim. Fast travels and reloads after deaths will be quicker (not even sure if perceptibly). And then it's welcome to the choppier frame rates and lower resolution.


Never said that.

XSX GPU is faster and has 10 GBs of faster vram, it will execute it faster ... but TO FILL it up with data, the SSD takes up to 3 times longer than the PS5 SSD, as the SSD UPS Truck of the XSX is slower.

All that extra 150Gb/s faster vram and those extra 20 CUs (by the way, we still have no confirmation on ROPs and TMU count the XSX) only matter once the data is prepped up and loaded.

And it really does not matter the game. A game with 50GB of data ... takes up to 3 times less on the PS5 than on the XSX (purely on gb/s output, seek time, etc.). The PS5 on hardware level, should automatically without much extra effort load any game faster, copy any game faster and access to everything on the storage faster than the XSX SSD by a big margin.

He means games like No Mans Sky, where you generate the world or place instances of objects and textures already in memory.

Are you sure about that? Did he really meant to say that? Because except for NMS ... Ass.Creed and others come with 50GB and more data (assets), that need to be "made ready for the gpu" and even NMS needs to get said data from the SSD first.

XSX SSD 100%
PS5 SSD up to 300% faster aka the vram, the cpu, cache everything wont have to wait as long

 

[Arkam]

Well if a video producer says it, it must be true!

 

[Sota4077]

My god. ALL that is going on is the Sony are doing everything they can to shift the topic of discussion from power to SSD's knowing they were beat on power. That is it. Microsoft did the same bullshit with cloud computing at the beginning of this current generation as well. It is incredibly transparent if you are not a console fanboy. The SSD is going to be sweet as hell, but it is absolutely not going to revolutionize a goddamn thing. SSD's have been around for 10 years and while this one is faster is does not magically take burden off of a CPU or GPU. If you fanboy fools get to claim that and say it will increase the effective TF on the console then Microsoft get to claim their console in indeed 25 TF as well because of the ray tracing chip in the console. You do not get to have it both ways. The Playstation 5 will be the weaker console and nothing except new hardware will change that. You can love the SSD all you like and it absolutely will kick ass to have, but it does not do anything more than simply load assets faster.

 

[JTCx]

Guys settle down. This is just a reminder that ps5 ssd isnt special and xsx has better gpu. Please stop being excited and subscribe to game pass. More news at 10.

 

[Ellery]

I actually agree, witcher 3 last dlc in my view was perfect size wise and content wise and story wise. The main game was far to big to my liking it just feels like it never ends.

The same i had with ac odyssey, it took me about 160 hours to get through all of it and frankly it was mind number awful to get stuff completed. A smaller world with better quality content would be far better. Which is why i liked the DLC's, same goes for origin on that front, however i get a weakness for egyptian mythology so yea i had no issue's going through it at the end of the day.

Zelda botw, i quited half way in, the lands and the rewards where just not interesting to me, koraks where just awful, chests never gave anything interesting and most of the land was pretty much that nothing to do area's. The temples where interesting to unlock not so much to do.

Again a smaller more tight world would have been better.

Thanks for warning me about AC Odyssey. I have it in my backlog and heard a lot of praise, but not sure if I will be ready for a huge open world game anytime soon. I also planned to do RDR2 on PC 100% at some point in my life, but no idea now. Maybe after RE3/FF7/TLOU2 and before Cyberpunk 2077 there will be time for a big open world game.

 

[Dory16]

XSX GPU is faster and has 10 GBs of faster vram, it will execute it faster ... but TO FILL it up with data, the SSD takes up to 3 times longer than the PS5 SSD, as the SSD UPS Truck of the XSX is slower.

All that extra 150Gb/s faster vram and those extra 20 CUs (by the way, we still have no confirmation on ROPs and TMU count the XSX) only matter once the data is prepped up and loaded.

And it really does not matter the game. A game with 50GB of data ... takes up to 3 times less on the PS5 than on the XSX (purely on gb/s output, seek time, etc.). The PS5 on hardware level, should automatically without much extra effort load any game faster, copy any game faster and access to everything on the storage faster than the XSX SSD by a big margin.

In pc terms
NGEN: SATA3 vs NVME Samsung 970 Pro (XSX) vs NVME 2xOptane (PS5)
LAST Gen at 20 to 50MB/s



Are you sure about that? Did he really meant to say that? Because except for NMS ... Ass.Creed and others come with 50GB and more data (assets), that need to be "made ready for the gpu" and even NMS needs to get said data from the SSD first.

XSX SSD 100%
PS5 SSD up to 300% faster aka the vram, the cpu, cache everything wont have to wait as long

Brother, the CPU/GPU don't read from the SSD. I know you are not saying they do, but your insistence on SSD speeds can make certain people believe that. It takes approx. 2 seconds to fill the entire XSX VRAM from SSD (10GB, 4.2GB/s). After that, the CPU/GPU are constantly fed and do not need to wait on the SSD. They read from the VRAM/RAM that is faster on the XSX. We really have to wait for mutiplats to see if there is any perceptible advantage. The reason why the PS4 Pro wasn't coming close to doing native 4k on RDR2 wasn't because it didn't have a fast SSD. The One X didn't either. Is it great that there are now fast SSDs instead of HDDs? absolutely. But those had never been identified before as the reason for the performance gap between consoles and PCs and it's entirely due to Sony's propaganda that it is now perceived to be.

 

[Kusarigama]

SSD wasn't added to make the open worlds look better, rather it influences the Game Design. Understand the difference between Game Design and graphics(visuals).

The now so often brought up examples of how long elevator rides, narrow windy corridors, game world traversal speed, etc. are what make the Game Design. Graphics are graphics.

 

[Danjin44]

Bla bla bla Flops bla bla bla SSD.

It never ends, you guys so damn obsess with graphics and tech that you completely forget about actual designers who make the games. But fuck that...right? You guys continue with bla bla bla bla Ray tracing or whatever fuck the next buzz word.

 

[Ascend]

No surprise here.

 

[mckmas8808]

That's not a hardware limitation, though. It's a cost limitation. You can't design vast open worlds without procedural generation. It's cost prohibitive. Having an SSD doesn't change that.

How the heck will a member of DF be able to say what the budget of a AAA game will or won't be? He CAN'T possibly know these things.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Procedural generation can be used to bake a static world, too. It is not limited to only being used "on the fly" necessarily. The reason it is done for current-gen games (and even moreso on the PS3/360) is because the limited RAM and slow disk/HDD speeds make it prohibitive to load all those assets as you go.

When you have a storage drive that can stream assets, the crutch of procedural generation becomes less necessary, or not necessary at all. Depends on how the devs design their games, like I said.

The thing that the ssd can allow also is for these assets to be very detailed while still loading instantly.

 

[mckmas8808]

The PlayStation 5 SSD is among the console's most exciting features, but it will not change open-world games dramatically, at least by itself.

In a recent post on the ResetEra forums, Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia commented on the console's SSD, highlighting how open-world games will not allow different looking open-world games, as the data pulled from the SSD would be static data, and open-world games increase details and variety through procedural methods.


On a related note, Alexander Battaglia also commented on the Xbox Series X GPU, highlighting how it is simply better than the PlayStation 5's.

The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically

Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia recently commented on the PlayStation 5 SSD and on how it will not, by itself, change open-world games

wccftech.com

DF's Content Producer Alex Battaglia is WRONG! He's a smart guy, but literally is talking about something that he has no clue about. How could he possibly know AAA team's workflows? And why is he so excited to tell us what won't happen?

 

[psorcerer]

1) Only he XSX will come close to performing ray tracing as well as a 2080 TI. Please re-watch Cerny's presentation if unsure. In his own words, he is "becoming a believer in consoles performing a decent level of ray tracing in a way that does not completely starve the GPU" (I paraphrased a bit). On the other side we have seen path tracing (ray tracing ++) implemented in Minecraft 9 months before the XSX release date

Implying 2080 TI performs raytracing "well". Fun times, indeed...

2)Why is Battaglia's previous stance on console ray tracing relevant to his commentary on what Sony and MS officially announced? He analysed the Minecraft RT demo and publicly threw all his pre-existing biases out the window, taking a huge step ahead of you when it comes to objectivity.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

The thing that the ssd can allow also is for these assets to be very detailed while still loading instantly.

Indeed, and this applies to both the XsX and the PS5. People should be thrilled that both brands will benefit from this technology.

Question for the armchair hardware geniuses in the room: why do videogames cache to RAM and why have disk-based and HDD-installed videogames used this technique since the 1980s?

 

[Dory16]

How the heck will a member of DF be able to say what the budget of a AAA game will or won't be? He CAN'T possibly know these things.

He never said he knew their budgets. Just that procedural was the trend already this gen. and that’s driven by costs. It’s the reason why Ninja Theory can develop 3 games at the same time. An SSD doesn’t help with that.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

He never said he knew their budgets. Just that procedural was the trend already this gen. and that’s driven by costs. It’s the reason why Ninja Theory can develop 3 games at the same time. An SSD doesn’t help with that.

It helps so long as the procedural content generated is baked into the disc. Things like speed tree help people design levels quicker, but the procedurally generated trees and level is still there in the game disc and needs to load to ram. In theory higher detail trees could be used with an ssd because they can stream in reasonable time.

Even in cases like no man's sky there are base assets used to algorithmically generate the content. Those base assets could be significantly higher detail without requiring inordinate loading times. If no man sky used 10GB of base assets with an hdd, that would take nearly 2 minutes to load.

 

[A.Romero]

I'm not a game dev but I'm pretty familiar with computers and play a lot of games. As far as I know, most open world games right now are not procedural. I mean, if they were, every time you looked in a given direction in Spider Man, GTAV, Witcher 3 or any other open world game would look different. They don't. Trees are exactly in the same spot, rivers, rocks, etc.

There might be some stuff that is generated on the spot like weather or maybe some animals but the environments are as static as they come. Will SSD tech be enough to compensate or to bring really all new experiences? Who knows.

I'm surprised people here is discussing this.

That said, I seriously doubt PS5 will offer better performance for multiplat games than XSX. However, I don't really go to PS5 for multiplat games. Even if I could only afford one single platform for next gen (which is a possibility given the likely economic fallout that is coming) I'd still go for PS5 because I like their exclusives. Microsoft has been purchasing studios and they will probably improve but at least up until now, raw power is something I can get from a PC right now (albeit probably more expensive). Same thing for Nintendo fans, they couldn't care less about the Switch's processing power, they are there for the games even if they can't play on 4k/60FPS.

 

[Dory16]

I'm not a game dev but I'm pretty familiar with computers and play a lot of games. As far as I know, most open world games right now are not procedural. I mean, if they were, every time you looked in a given direction in Spider Man, GTAV, Witcher 3 or any other open world game would look different. They don't. Trees are exactly in the same spot, rivers, rocks, etc.

There might be some stuff that is generated on the spot like weather or maybe some animals but the environments are as static as they come. Will SSD tech be enough to compensate or to bring really all new experiences? Who knows.

I'm surprised people here is discussing this.

That said, I seriously doubt PS5 will offer better performance for multiplat games than XSX. However, I don't really go to PS5 for multiplat games. Even if I could only afford one single platform for next gen (which is a possibility given the likely economic fallout that is coming) I'd still go for PS5 because I like their exclusives. Microsoft has been purchasing studios and they will probably improve but at least up until now, raw power is something I can get from a PC right now (albeit probably more expensive). Same thing for Nintendo fans, they couldn't care less about the Switch's processing power, they are there for the games even if they can't play on 4k/60FPS.

Not being condescending but you just demonstrated that the conversation having had here requires more than “having played a lot of games” to be able to make a non laughable contribution.

 

[psorcerer]

There might be some stuff that is generated on the spot like weather or maybe some animals but the environments are as static as they come.

It's only partially correct.
Although the placement is static, there are a lot of dynamic (procedural) props.
They are kind of "built" from various parts directly in the frame.
So although they look the same, each time you look at them, the amount of information to create them was much smaller than the whole thing you see on screen.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Didn't read the article, but did the author see this video and comment on it?



How can you see that and say it will not affect open world games?

 

[A.Romero]

It's only partially correct.
Although the placement is static, there are a lot of dynamic (procedural) props.
They are kind of "built" from various parts directly in the frame.
So although they look the same, each time you look at them, the amount of information to create them was much smaller than the whole thing you see on screen.

What kind of props are dynamically generated?

Taking Witcher 3 as an example, what kind of stuff is static and what is dynamic?

 

[EverydayBeast]

SSD is a major building block going forward.

 

[Dory16]

It helps so long as the procedural content generated is baked into the disc. Things like speed tree help people design levels quicker, but the procedurally generated trees and level is still there in the game disc and needs to load to ram. In theory higher detail trees could be used with an ssd because they can stream in reasonable time.

Even in cases like no man's sky there are base assets used to algorithmically generate the content. Those base assets could be significantly higher detail without requiring inordinate loading times. If no man sky used 10GB of base assets with an hdd, that would take nearly 2 minutes to load.

It seems to me that you are saying that being able to quickly provide a lot of input to an algorithm vastly improves the service time of that algorithm or function. I respectfully disagree. You just have to never leave the processor idle. It then comes down to its speed (for simplification, I’m considering that all developers on all consoles are just as smart and use the best possible procedural algorithm and that the only variables are input delivery and CPU/GPU speed). I’m sure the XSX SSD and RAM are more than fast enough to guarantee that the processors won’t sit idle after may be the first 5 seconds of launching the game. We know what happens after that. All those CUs matter the most when it’s all said and done.

 

[psorcerer]

What kind of props are dynamically generated?

Taking Witcher 3 as an example, what kind of stuff is static and what is dynamic?

 

[hyperbertha]

Seriously nobody believes that the PS5 SSD is some revolutionary thing besides you know who. I can't wait for the 1st games to be released. Curious what new excuse the SSD SSD SSD camp will come up with.

PS5's SSD Has Developer Dreaming Big and Thinking of New Frontiers

"My mind was racing"

www.pushsquare.com

 

[hyperbertha]

It helps so long as the procedural content generated is baked into the disc. Things like speed tree help people design levels quicker, but the procedurally generated trees and level is still there in the game disc and needs to load to ram. In theory higher detail trees could be used with an ssd because they can stream in reasonable time.

Even in cases like no man's sky there are base assets used to algorithmically generate the content. Those base assets could be significantly higher detail without requiring inordinate loading times. If no man sky used 10GB of base assets with an hdd, that would take nearly 2 minutes to load.

Are you absolutely sure the assets pointed to in the precedural algorithm needs to load to ram? Like absolutely sure? Because if it is the guys post is BS.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Has there been devs that have talked about the difference between PS5 and XSX SSD?

Most of the comments I'm seeing just kind of ignore the XSX... and I don't think I've seen a comment from someone who isn't an indie dev either. (not saying someone bigger hasn't said something, but I have yet to see it)

Excited for SSD in general and being twice as fast is.. well.. twice as good.. but have trouble believing that devs will actually paint individual scenes with enough detail for 100x's the speed of last gen to matter vs. 40-50x's the speed of last gen. Kind of akin to the DF dudes comments... who is going to cram that much art into a single visible scene?

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

I put the ps5 and x1x as cars. I put x1x as a mustang heavy but powerful and I put ps5 as a lotus since its light and fast

 

[martino]

Has there been devs that have talked about the difference between PS5 and XSX SSD?

Most of the comments I'm seeing just kind of ignore the XSX... and I don't think I've seen a comment from someone who isn't an indie dev either. (not saying someone bigger hasn't said something, but I have yet to see it)

Excited for SSD in general and being twice as fast is.. well.. twice as good.. but have trouble believing that devs will actually paint individual scenes with enough detail for 100x's the speed of last gen to matter vs. 40-50x's the speed of last gen. Kind of akin to the DF dudes comments... who is going to cram that much art into a single visible scene?

prepare for thunder messager
because the honest reponse to your question cannot be pleaseant for a lot of people.