Imtjnotu
Member
o
Nvidia unleashed the kraken, now RTXGI for everyone
Perfect next gen console post
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Perfect next gen console post
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Wut? 12.1 vs 10.28 TFs is viable and it's exactly what it is, 15-20%, the one not using TFs is you lol
Ascend
Member
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Yes, it's what everyone did until now, only with %. We are both using TFs I guess, happy?
So, congratulations, you are saying what everyone else is already saying but worst, because it's linear math.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
You mean how small is the difference. We know the tflops numbers so its not a wild guess and is not tht big of a difference . And ps5 will excel in other areas
there is no way to get around that either.BattleScar
Member
Different words used to say the same thing.You mean how small is the difference. We know the tflops numbers so its not a wild guess and is not tht big of a difference . And ps5 will excel in other areas
I don't really care about the difference. At least not yet. Not until we see some actual software.
I'm talking about shaders, not teraflops. 36CU = 2304 shaders (or Vector ALUs). 52CU = 3328 shaders.
Each of those shaders can perform 2 floating point calculations per clock cycle. So you multiply the shaders by 2 operations per clock, then multiply that by the frequency to get the total number of floating point operations per second (TeraFLOPS).
There is a 18% compute difference, but a 44% shader difference.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Nah, mediocre, this:
Tht shit made me laugh ewww but hey some ppl think recore, crackdown 3 are superb
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Tht shit made me laugh ewww but hey some ppl think recore, crackdown 3 are superb
Sadly though, you lost the challenge.
Ascend
Member
So let me get this straight. You're allowed to divide the TFLOPS of the PS5 and the XSX to come to the 18% performance advantage of the XSX.
12.2 / 10.1 = 1.18 = 18% advantage.
But somehow, I'm not allowed to do this because it's dishonest...?
Want me to use percentages? Fine... Here we go again;
Xbox One: 1.31TF
PS4: 1.84TF
PS4 Pro: 4.2 TFLOPS
Xbox One X: 6 TFLOPS
PS5: 10.3TF
XSX: 12.2TF
Difference between XO and PS4: 0.53TF, which equals 40.4% advantage for the pS4
Difference between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X = 1.8TF, which equals 42.9% advantage for the Xbox One X
Difference between the XSX and the PS5 = 1.9TF, which equals 18.4% for the XSX
Here it comes... *Drumroll*
PS5 10.3TF / PS4 1.84TF = 459.8%
XSX 12.2 TF / XO 1.31 TF = 831.3%
Tell me. How are you going to justify that the math of the ones before the drum roll is perfectly fine, but the one after is not? I'll be waiting.
TBiddy
Member
Tht shit made me laugh ewww but hey some ppl think recore, crackdown 3 are superb
And other people consider Death Stranding to be a masterpiece. Each to their own I guess. Why not enjoy your own games instead of acting like a douche about someone elses preferred games?
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I don't agree with the guy that this is dishonest, but it's inefficient in being clear.
Your first post was about how the difference in percentage was fine, but the difference in actual power was bigger. But this doesn't change how much difference there is in terms of results, because the difference will scale with the better results of PS5 and SeX.
Yes, it's 4x difference.
But the difference from the old systems is 5 ish and 9 ish, meaning bigger than the difference between the two new systems. So, the difference between the two new system gets proportionaly smaller, and that's it. Your way of put it it's fine by itself, but it's confusing imho, unnecessary.
Of course the difference will proportionaly grow always, next time will be 500 CU vs 650 or whatever. Also TFs difference will grow because CUs difference will grow so more TFs difference when calculating with clocks.
Yes, all good. But really, it has no practical use, you just post here "but dude the difference is actually... "
It's actually the same, 18% or 4x, whatever.
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CJY
Banned
Or putting it another way, the difference in power is like duct taping 7.9 PS3s together
Or putting it another way, EVEN MORE DRMATICALLY!!, duct taping 296 PS2s available for additional graphical floating point operations processing power.
OR, putting it even another way... nobody gives a shit
DaGwaphics
Member
I had forgotten how bad the console wars get right after the specs are announced. Hopefully, things will settle down by around E3 time. Providing there is a enough of the world left to care at that point.
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TLZ
Banned
TLZ
Banned
Another Neo Member. Another dupe. Another troll. Or same troll. Either way, your message is quite obvious every time. Not enough your fav box is 1.8tf more than the other box?
farmerboy
Member
My favourite;
No xbox x exclusives; it's all good breh, gpu scales easily from lockheart to scarlett. You just flick a switch, same game, even all the way down to xbox one.
18% compute advantage over PS5; OMG Sony Defence Force, total annihilation. Cerny fucked up, overclock damage control, LMFAO.
Metroiddarks
Member
Basically the reason of why we say the graphic difference will be lower than the last time is for:
-The gpu/cpu percentage delta of this 2 consoles is lower than the last gen
-One of the bases for this new gen is the SSD speed where PS5 have the biggest advantage of all the specs
-Some part of the ram of XSX is faster but not all and is possible PS5 have more ram available for devs -The ram bandwidth difference is also less than the last gen
-XSX will have games first parties which also needs to run in much weaker consoles (remember are usually the first where we see the best graphics in some console)
Note: I will ignore the geometry engine as we don't know how efective is and the chip audio can be just end in a better audio in PS5 without any important difference in use of GPU
-The gpu/cpu percentage delta of this 2 consoles is lower than the last gen
-One of the bases for this new gen is the SSD speed where PS5 have the biggest advantage of all the specs
-Some part of the ram of XSX is faster but not all and is possible PS5 have more ram available for devs -The ram bandwidth difference is also less than the last gen
-XSX will have games first parties which also needs to run in much weaker consoles (remember are usually the first where we see the best graphics in some console)
Note: I will ignore the geometry engine as we don't know how efective is and the chip audio can be just end in a better audio in PS5 without any important difference in use of GPU
PaintTinJr
Member
As I didn't get any replies to my question, and it still seems very pertinent to the performance comparison of technical specs. Do you know how the effective memory bandwidth of the XsX will work - under those normal game rendering conditions ?
Metroiddarks
Member
Will be worst .... war never changesI had forgotten how bad the console wars get right after the specs are announced. Hopefully, things will settle down by around E3 time. Providing there is a enough of the world left to care at that point.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Nobody said this. You are still making things up.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Explain to me why you are comparing the generational jump difference between the PS4 to PS5 and the Xbox One to XSX? What's the point here?
CJY
Banned
Comparison is fine, but to come to the conclusion that the difference is bigger this gen than last gen is simply daft.
Gamernyc78
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
CJY
Banned
You're right, it's rather pointless.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I'm speechless.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Who fucking builds a PC without an SSD nowadays? Why build one then? Mine has 3.5GB/s read 2.7GB/s write raw speeds, and conventional SSD's are around 0.5GB/s!
And paid around $300 or more for that 1TB because it's critical. Installing Windows 10 Pro within 6 minutes was one of many benefits.
But hey, Xbox first party games are mostly shit, so it won't make a big difference. I would take any current gen PS4 exclusive on an original PS4 over anything Xbox would ever dream of making.
“The audience for those big story-driven games…I won’t say it isn’t as large, but they’re not as consistent. You’ll have things like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Horizon Zero Dawn that’ll come out, and they’ll do really well, but they don’t have the same impact that they used to have because the big service-based games are capturing such a large amount of the audience. Sony’s first-party studios do a lot of these games, and they’re good at them, but outside of that, it’s difficult–they’ve become more rare…It’s a difficult business decision for those teams, you’re fighting into more headwind. We’ve got to understand that if we enjoy those games, the business opportunity has to be there for them. I love story-based games. I just finished Thimbleweed Park…Inside was probably my game of last year. As an industry, I want to make sure both narrative-driven single-player games and service-based games have the opportunity to succeed. I think that’s critical for us.”
Phil Spencer says single-player games like Horizon Zero Dawn don't have the same impact as before
In a recent interview with The Guardian, Phil Spencer said that games like Overwatch which recently crossed 30 million players have more of an impact in terms of sales than single-player experiences such as Horizon Zero Dawn which sold a fraction of that. This wasn’t the case a few years ago...
mspoweruser.com
Yet PC gamers are shitting themselves because they'll get a 3-year old SP game.
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M-V2
Member
Xbox fanboys want to push everybody from the fact that what Sony can possibly do with that insane power, I mean power doesn't mean anything without TALENT. could you believe this was on 1.84TF (GCN) machine?? With lame ass CPU & slow ass HHD, what they could possibly do with 10.2tf (RDNA2)?? Zen 2 CPU & ultra fast SSD... I mean just what could Sony show us soon?? 
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Insane Metal
Member
You were right on the first one and wrong on the second one.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Alot of people talk about performance, but several games run better on PS4 pro which is the weakest console in comparison to Xbox one X which is more powerful in 40%. You want a few pump in resolution?? Sure take it idc but I want performance. In the end of the day it depends on the devs. Take for example Doom enteranl runs better on PS4 pro according to digital foundy, RE3 remake demo runs way better on ps4 pro according to digital foundry, if this what the most powerful console guarantee then keep that a few pump in resolution to yourself I don't want it, give me the performance.
Note: you can watch digital foundry analysis before you attacking me lol
People forget that it's using Windows, the most restraining system ever
It's so shit that Microsoft has dropped it for the cloud:
Whoa. Microsoft Is Using Linux to Run Its Cloud
Microsoft has admitted to something that used to be unthinkable: using Linux to run some of its own operations.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
The funny thing is that 99.9 percent of people won't be able to identify which system was running a 3rd party game in a blind side-by-side test. You are not going to see it in frame rate or resolution without analytical tools. If your looking for 2 fps drops in game to prove your platform has a bigger cock, do you even enjoy gaming? I think the only place anyone will see a difference is with Sony first party games made to take advantage of the unique hardware features. Other than that, we are playing the same thing.
eastwood333
Banned
And yet,there are 3rd party games that look just as good or better. RDR2,Doom Eternal,Gears 5,DMC5,RE2 etc... 343,The Coalition,Ninja Theory, Playground,Turn 10 will also do amzing things with more powerful hardwareXbox fanboys want to push everybody from the fact that what Sony can possibly do with that insane power, I mean power doesn't mean anything without TALENT. could you believe this was on 1.84TF (GCN) machine?? With lame ass CPU & slow ass HHD, what they could possibly do with 10.2tf (RDNA2)?? Zen 2 CPU & ultra fast SSD... I mean just what could Sony show us soon??
Ptarmiganx2
Member
*Slightly more powerful in some areas and nothing new in terms of innovation. Fixed it.
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BattleScar
Member
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure how the Series X's unique memory architecture is gonna affect performance. The 10GB that are at 560GB/s should feed the GPU just fine. The 5700XT has about 45.9GB/s bandwidth per FLOP, while the Series X has about 46.6GB/s bandwidth per FLOP for the fast 10GB.
I would hope that RDNA2 has better bandwidth efficiency than RDNA1 regardless, so I don' t think that'll be an issue.
The main problem is the 6GB of GDDR6 at 336GB/s. Of that 6, 3.5 can be used by the GPU. So if the GPU needs to use more than 10GB, does the speed for the full 13.5GB drop down to 336GB/s?
AFAIK, when you're dealing with memory pools at different bandwidths and you need to draw from both, you default to the lowest speed. Particularly because they're all using the same memory buses.
If that is the case, then after a certain point there could legitimately be a bandwidth constraint, if there are games that need to use 13.5GB instead of 10GB.
10GB @ 560GB/s >>>>>>>>>>> 13.5GB @ 336GB/s, as far as I'm concerned.
I hope Microsoft have a clever software solution to prevent this from being the case.
Perhaps the first 10GB is transferred at 560, and the remaining 3.5 is transferred at 336. But that could cause some problems if certain important texture data or whatever is stored in the slower 3.5GB. Would developers need to optimise which assets they can afford to be in the slower memory pool, and which must be in the faster pool?
Some things to think about.
Ultimately, I just don't have the knowledge or experience to offer any meaningful answers. I can only hypothesise. If anyone does know, please do correct me if I'm wrong in my suppositions.
Perhaps
VFXVeteran
can chime in on this.
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LittleBigGamer
Banned
lol no. They look good though
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LittleBigGamer
Banned
joshcrispy
Neo Member
that guy has no idea what hes talking about, hes a complete moron
it_wasn't_me
Banned
| CPU | 8x Zen 2 Cores at 3.5GHz with SMT (variable frequency) |
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RagingTiger
Neo Member
Wow at the start of this gen the ps4 was praised as a more powerful, no bullshit machine, no inovations other than the touchpad controller(which really wasnt used) now people like you are embarrassingly saying the ps5 is like an exodic car while the xbox is a muscle car lol. fast SSD is not an inovative thing that just sony made, and the tempest engine is like microsofts triton . you saying inovative is so cringe.
LordOfChaos
Member
Don't know where he got that following when they've been demonstrably wrong so often and barely make sense
Triton is software, TEMPEST is hardware they are miles apart in implementation but try and solve the same problem.
eastwood333
Banned
What? RDR2 on XB1X trumps all. You're saying Days Gone, Spiderman etc are technically more impressive?
PaintTinJr
Member
Unfortunately, I'm not really sure how the Series X's unique memory architecture is gonna affect performance. The 10GB that are at 560GB/s should feed the GPU just fine. The 5700XT has about 45.9GB/s bandwidth per FLOP, while the Series X has about 46.6GB/s bandwidth per FLOP for the fast 10GB.
I would hope that RDNA2 has better bandwidth efficiency than RDNA1 regardless, so I don' t think that'll be an issue.
The main problem is the 6GB of GDDR6 at 336GB/s. Of that 6, 3.5 can be used by the GPU. So if the GPU needs to use more than 10GB, does the speed for the full 13.5GB drop down to 336GB/s?
AFAIK, when you're dealing with memory pools at different bandwidths and you need to draw from both, you default to the lowest speed. Particularly because they're all using the same memory buses.
If that is the case, then after a certain point there could legitimately be a bandwidth constraint, if there are games that need to use 13.5GB instead of 10GB.
10GB @ 560GB/s >>>>>>>>>>> 13.5GB @ 336GB/s, as far as I'm concerned.
I hope Microsoft have a clever software solution to prevent this from being the case.
Perhaps the first 10GB is transferred at 560, and the remaining 3.5 is transferred at 336. But that could cause some problems if certain important texture data or whatever is stored in the slower 3.5GB. Would developers need to optimise which assets they can afford to be in the slower memory pool, and which must be in the faster pool?
Some things to think about.
Ultimately, I just don't have the knowledge or experience to offer any meaningful answers. I can only hypothesise. If anyone does know, please do correct me if I'm wrong in my suppositions.
Perhaps
AFAIK from what was explained in DF reveal, if 'any' access to either pool from either chip happens, then the whole 16GB drops to the lower bandwidth. The normal situation I described needs a constant stream of workload updates for the GPU from the CPU, so how that data access pattern can be avoided in any XsX game seems like a complete misrepresentation of the real situation. That the XsX has effective memory bandwidth of 336GB/s. In my first asking of the question I speculated that the adding of the bandwidths (560GB/s + 336GB) is likely possible when loading data into both memory pools prior to user control logic kicking in. I also wondered if there was some advanced way to DMA through the SSD for CPU update writes and GPU reads - when streaming in new asset data. But even then, such small constant data bubbles at 60 or more times per second would then surely be dragging the bandwidth down, or be hampering SSD bandwidth, wouldn't you think?
eastwood333
Banned
Innovation in game design? We're talking graphics. Its typically smaller,indie type games that do more of the innovation in game design thing.
Should be plenty of new innovation thanks mostly to the zen cpus for better physics/AI etc...
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
yet your pcie nvme ssd won't be much faster than a sata ssd. We don't know how much of that is due to lack of optimization and how much is due to the bottlenecks Cerny mentioned. Bottlenecks that the ps5 does not have.
The best looking games are probably Detroit, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima and RDR2, imo.
edit:
I doubt the audio CU is part of RDNA2, I think it was a cell like CU inspired by cell. It might even have uses outside audio.
I think ghost of tsushima. death stranding and detroit compete with rdr2. I also think digital foundy gave top graphics to death stranding
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devilNprada
Member
Nah, mediocre, this:
Love to see Age of Empires come to the switch....
Imtjnotu
Member
the more you post
the more it shows you dont know what the SHIT you are talking about
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
RDR 2 on X1X compared to PS4 Pro version (outside resolution of course ) is graphically equal in all department.
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