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ph33rknot
Banned
So you never see Spiderman swinging through the city?
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
I think this bit is worth highlighting
in case anyone was wondering if ms had a plan
While reading his ramble about plans my mind was picturing Trump.
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ethomaz
Banned
That is not what AMD said.I don’t understand what you mean.
But
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15592/amds-2020-client-gpu-roadmap-rdna-3-on-the-horizon
"And given TSMC’s roadmaps, it’s more or less inevitable that this will be the point where AMD begins using an EUV-based process for their GPUs, as AMD has indicated that this year’s RDNA 2 will not be using TSMC’s EUV-based 7nm+ process."
N7P for RDNA2 and nextgen consoles
They said that they are naming 7nm everything from 7nm... N7, N7P, N7+.
If RDNA 2 or consoles uses DUV or EUV is unknown.
But the gain in perf. per watt strong hints are EUV.
What that means?
That means at same power envelop the RX 5700 can run well over 2000Mhz... maybe around 2200Mhz in base clock.
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RDNA1 + shader raytracing + + 10-15% transistors - power consumption = RDNA2
geordiemp
Member
I don’t understand what you mean.
But
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15592/amds-2020-client-gpu-roadmap-rdna-3-on-the-horizon
"And given TSMC’s roadmaps, it’s more or less inevitable that this will be the point where AMD begins using an EUV-based process for their GPUs, as AMD has indicated that this year’s RDNA 2 will not be using TSMC’s EUV-based 7nm+ process."
N7P for RDNA2 and nextgen consoles
Thats the roadmap, things change, you do realise EUV is a litho mask process - do you think the whole APU is made with EUV at each litho step ?
Also below, your benchmarking an RDNA1 chip out of its comfort zone, if what AMD says to its investors is true (which legally it has to be), then what would 50 % efficiency get you to max frequency ?
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LOLThat is not what AMD said.
They said that they are naming 7nm everything from 7nm... N7, N7P, N7+.
If RDNA 2 or consoles uses DUV or EUV is unknown.
But the gain in perf. per watt strong hints are EUV.
What that means?
That means at same power envelop the RX 5700 XT can run well over 2000Mhz... maybe even close to 2400Mhz.
I know about increasing frequencies and IPC. But where are the words about better scalability of RDNA2?
Disco_
Member
Other than him typing clocks and frames on the screen, are there actual time graphs showing clocks vs frames anywhere?
Cerny custom designed the heck out of the PS5 SSD and explained in detail what makes it different than a standard drive, the fastest, and now the current minion narrative from that bird face duck guy and destera is that Cerny is lying and it's peak speed?
What in the actual F? How do these people come up with this. The fact that you need a faster SSD than 5.5GB to work in the PS5 proves these people have no clue what they're talking about. It's like their job is try as much to downplay any advantage PS5 has over SX.
I remember when nobody believed Cerny in the Wired article when he said the SSD will be faster than anything available on PC's. People were adamant that he was talking about current PC's and there's no way PS5 could have a faster drive.
This isn't the only thing these fools have said sony is lying about. Funny how all these lies became true.
What in the actual F? How do these people come up with this. The fact that you need a faster SSD than 5.5GB to work in the PS5 proves these people have no clue what they're talking about. It's like their job is try as much to downplay any advantage PS5 has over SX.
I remember when nobody believed Cerny in the Wired article when he said the SSD will be faster than anything available on PC's. People were adamant that he was talking about current PC's and there's no way PS5 could have a faster drive.
This isn't the only thing these fools have said sony is lying about. Funny how all these lies became true.
Your information is outdatedThats the roadmap, things change, you do realise EUV is a litho mask process - do you think the whole APU is made with EUV at each litho step ?
Also below, your benchmarking an RDNA1 chip out of its comfort zone, if what AMD says to its investors is true (which legally it has to be), then what would 50 % efficiency get you to max frequency ?
ethomaz
Banned
I just posted a pic from the part of the presentation lol
geordiemp
Member
I guess you guys aren't okay
Gaf is here for you <3
We are OK, just laughing at your poor trolling and your poor understanding of anything technical is giving me a laugh.
When is school back ?
ethomaz
Banned
Everything is 7nm to AMD now... even 7nm+ EUV.Your information is outdated
So no... AMD said it is the same schedule as before... both slides tells the same.
geordiemp
Member
Your information is outdated
You Have no idea what your talking about, just because a technology is 7nm does not mean it uses EUV for litho precision. Your talking crap (I work in semi conductor)
Go on talk some more, I need more laughs
If you actually listened to the AMD presentation (for investors so not too technical and nice simple slides like above), one of the AMD presenters actually tells you about the nodes in more detail than the "marketing" slide..
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Metroiddarks
Member
OK got it, you don't have any clue idea about how an engine works especially the engine of Insomniac.
If you have it you will notice this discussion is pointless even if you are programmer sorry that doesn't mean
you understand this but at least please try to learn how a game works and is created before to say that nonsense.
Sorry I sound to rude but reply message while the temperature if more than 30 degrees Celsius.... is not a good combination.
ethomaz
Banned
I don’t discussion technical with assumptions I go with what AMD said.
So 50% increase in clock at the same power draw.
Imtjnotu
Member
Just stating the obvious mamI guess you guys aren't okay
Gaf is here for you <3
ph33rknot
Banned
Still don't see him
ethomaz
Banned
Why not ask AMD themselves? Wait AnandTech already did that.
“n order to avoid confusion, AMD is dropping the ‘+’ from its roadmaps. In speaking with AMD, the company confirmed that its next generations of 7nm products are likely to use process enhancements and the best high-performance libraries for the target market, however it is not explicity stating whether this would be N7P or N7+, just that it will be ‘better’ than the base N7 used in its first 7nm line.”
AMD 7nm can be N7P or N7+.
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geordiemp
Member
Productivity do you mean binning rate due to Particulate at TSMC fab on 300 mm of more than 4 CU or binning to to % of chips not acheieving a particular frequency ?
Do you not think Sony and AMD / TSMC eniginers have exact percentages on yields vs particulate and power and frequency ? Do you think they dont know what they are doing and you do ?
Come back with some better arguments why Ps5 will fail as its poor.
Or maybe features or both ?
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Once again you are trying to confuse others, brandishing authority.. LOL
You have already shown the inability to answer questions.
RDR2 shaders will continue to dominate over its the frequency - is a priori, fact! That's all I wanted to say.
Metroiddarks
Member
I love the option of Ignore people some of them are like little kids
some of them are like little kids
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
is it actually hitting those clocks though? the 5700 cards dont really hit those frequencies.
the simulating gonzalo chart from demoncleaner shows that performance scales fairly linearly. its not 1:1 but its not as bad as these tests suggest.
Going from 1,800 mhz to 2,150 mhz is a 19% boost. The firestrike score increases by 13%.
Going from 1,600 to 2,000 mhz is a 25% boost. The increase in firestrike score is 18%.
I expect RDNA2.0 cards to perform even better at higher clocks.
Why repeat it after me?Why not ask AMD themselves? Wait AnandTech already did that.
“n order to avoid confusion, AMD is dropping the ‘+’ from its roadmaps. In speaking with AMD, the company confirmed that its next generations of 7nm products are likely to use process enhancements and the best high-performance libraries for the target market, however it is not explicity stating whether this would be N7P or N7+, just that it will be ‘better’ than the base N7 used in its first 7nm line.”
AMD 7nm can be N7P or N7+.
.... don't understand
ph33rknot
Banned
I agree there are to many people to ignoreI love the option of Ignore people
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geordiemp
Member
I am not saying that XSX will have more TF, it does, will it perform better in some scenarios, yes it will. See that was easy ....
Will XSX perform better for every game, no, we dont know yet, there are many other factors, frequency is just one. Bandwidth and contention is another.
Dont be so dismissive of other things that dont fit your narrative.
PS we dont know the AMD / TSMC price for RDNA2 yet, so we dont know how much these consoles will be, everybody estimates but dont be so sure what was a good or bad choice YET !
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Well, we at least have your expectations. With all due respect!)is it actually hitting those clocks though? the 5700 cards dont really hit those frequencies.
the simulating gonzalo chart from demoncleaner shows that performance scales fairly linearly. its not 1:1 but its not as bad as these tests suggest.
Going from 1,800 mhz to 2,150 mhz is a 19% boost. The firestrike score increases by 13%.
Going from 1,600 to 2,000 mhz is a 25% boost. The increase in firestrike score is 18%.
I expect RDNA2.0 cards to perform even better at higher clocks.
LordOfChaos
Member
Heuehueheu
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
what?
The Mad Draklor
Member
You're witnessing the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Just wave and smile. There's nothing much you can do to help him.
ph33rknot
Banned
Put that shit in the era treadHeuehueheu
geordiemp
Member
Heuehueheu
Yeah I enjoyed that exchange, Other place can have some nice technical inputs, I like reading Lady Gaia perspective.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
what a shitty way to post. i give him hard evidence and instead of taking it and maybe learning from it, he digs in, posts a passive aggressive comment and leaves like a little bitch.
I just presented a comparison. Defenders occupied firing points.. They answered (as I understand it) that RDR2 will have better scalability from frequency.
I still do not see evidence of this.
Sorry, but I do not believe in "SSD magic" and linear dependence; frequency> performance.
Other factors are hidden from me. Could you show me the right path? I say this as seriously as possible)
Could you provide me a link to this thread? Thanks in advance for this!
geordiemp
Member
We dont know, its fun speculating, but keep an open mind is my view. RDNA2 plus fast GPU plus fast SSD is all new stuff, all new compression and lower than expected bandwidth and RAM for both consoles....
Lets see what surprises us in coming months. I am sure both console makers will have tricks up their sleeves we dont know about yet.
geordiemp
Member
Secret agent cerny on era, some good reads on bandwidth, contention, cache size and potential bottlenecks, lady gaia posts are very good. I am only member here though, I would get banned in minutes over their lol.
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Speculation is good. It is bad when speculation is passed off as truth. i know it's pretty corny .. but
I am not familiar with Lady Gaia... Who is it?
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HawarMiran
Banned
Bye bye 
. Why was he banned?
. Why was he banned?
Fake
Member
Bye bye
Insane Metal
Member
You guys seen this?
Oh it's not nextgen but whatever.
Oh it's not nextgen but whatever.
thelastword
Banned
When that happens, I can guarantee you that DF will downplay it, as they downplayed resolution differences between PS4 vs XBONES, when PS4 also had better framerates and effects to go along with that......Now they are the biggest proponents of Resolution since XBONEX came, even when it loses in framerate and effects are largely the same....
Man, that is unsettling......I think some forums really do protect some posters, the argument is always "He is an industry professional, you are a mere poster"......Sadly these things happen often on forums everywhere.....Yet when these so called industry professionals are so biased with their postings and they have free reign to insult regular posters who are quite civil in their discourse, then you tend to feel that these forums are more about attracting industry people than regular gamers...….Most of these industry people rarely posts on these forums, they only come when they have to sell their goods or defend their videos or some such...…..People drink everything they say like they are gods, anyone who disagrees is ostracized......Look at how easily Dictator or other DF staff will get defended especially if they support said posters biases....Lots of fellation ensues on site...
For the life of me, I cant understand why Dictator would be so dis-ingenuous...….How would a fast SSD limit open world design instead of enhance it? The PS5 SSD is extremely fast, much more so than the Series X, with all the other custom IO chips on the MCC, it's that much closer to acting as ram or HBCC on steroids.....That would work quite the opposite to what Dictator suggests here.....@James Sawyer Ford just caught up to the the PS5 thread on reee, moderation over there is truly embarrassing. Some of the bans starting with platocplx all the way to page 168 are just... is that their idea of instilling respect and authority?
Was fun seeing how nib called dictator on his bs, he clearly fucked up and is now backtracking which is made so obvious here:
If you check a game like Forza Horizon, you see very often the same looping textures or assets, on approach you see the yellow flower fields as one flat tarpaulin and as you get closer it propagates, but it's the same flower becoming dense and looped....Even then, look at their open fields and see how much pop-in exists or you can easily spot really low rez background textures in the forest areas......All the dev time trying not to overload ram with decent textures is limited, the variety you can offer is limited, the speed at which you can inter-change textures and assets and a wide variety of it is severely limited....
The fast SSD will allow devs to store extremely higher rez textures, a truckload more variety in textures/assets can be stored, with the speed of the SSD, using a sub-routine to specify lots of varied textures/assets from a fast SSD is possible, randomizing the asset pool as you play in realtime on a level or open world is also possible.....People like to talk about procedural generation, but what do you mean? PG in it's current state is limited severely through antiquated IO, how would a massive advancement in that regard work against that? As it stands, a very fast 5.5Gb/s SSD would have helped tremendously, but it's even more remarkable that they didn't stop there and went a couple steps further in speeding the IO pipeline by including a few coherency units, a very fast DMAC with lots of gates etc...….
How is that going to limit what a dev does in an open world relative to textures/assets, if anything it is going to boost the quality and variety several leagues over what we got last gen, the devs will spend less time seeing what fits, less time picking and choosing textures/assets that will cripple their frames, less time lowering their ambition on textures and asset quality or limiting level design and further complexities thereto.....Doesn't Dictator know that artists have left lots of their work on the drawing tables literally during development because of all this picking and choosing and perhaps some of their best and most ambitious work was cut off and left on the table, because the hardware would have frozen, the level and complexity was too big, it's not exactly a secret......and speaking of Procedural generation, some of these guys forget the devs they are talking to, even many PS fans would be aware since we ourselves read Guerilla's and ND's PDF's and Docs......Does Dictator believe that the procedural world and cloud generation in Horizon Zero Dawn/Decima engine is going to take a step back for next generation? It's just bonkers that he can be so un-informed and pretend to be some tech genie shining light in a dark world.....
I mean, I've seen these guys for who they are for a long time......I've argued with them way before most of them made it to DF, they have not changed from those days.....I am a Sony fan, but I've always embraced that. Arguing on forums and being that involved in the war when you have a mandate to produce fair and accurate data across many devices are two different things entirely, the spoilt child attitude of dictator here is something I've seen him display many times on old GAF, you simply cant have such blatant biases when doing tech analyses......The way I see it, things can go real hazy for DF if some of these tones and attitudes are not adjusted for next gen....I have seen through their transparent nylon shields for a while now, but I must say, it's a bit refreshing to see some people finally catching up to their devices...
01011001
Banned
DigitalFoundry Derangement Syndrome in full force xD Jesus Christ
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Can someone explain the XSX's hardware component that's dedicated to ray tracing? Does it really completely take the load off the GPU and make the XSX's compute performance for ray tracing equivalent to 25 teraflops? Also, is it true that the PS5 doesn't have an equivalent to this?
Considering how poorly Nvidia's very expensive RTX cards perform while ray tracing, I'm curious how Microsoft was able to implement a superior hardware solution in a game console that's going to cost much less than Nvidia's very expensive cards.
Considering how poorly Nvidia's very expensive RTX cards perform while ray tracing, I'm curious how Microsoft was able to implement a superior hardware solution in a game console that's going to cost much less than Nvidia's very expensive cards.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
I haven't watched it myself yet.
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