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[Apollo Helios]

Comment disappeared? I see Reddit already caught the screenshot lol

All of those are already talked on and easy to predict stuff anyway. We have been on their 3 weeks of drip feed PR plans and next week was already earmarked by all the gaffers so..... and don't get me on the HZD 2, which by the way adds nothing to the already predicted and expected stuff, it's been known they wanted flying mechanics for the first game and couldn't do just because of HDDs... there is nothing to see here imo

 

[Crimson_Fate]

AHHH..... swift justice ....

 

[LED Guy?]

I knew it was fake news, thanks for being a great moderator, Mod of War!

 

[saintjules]

All of those are already talked on and easy to predict stuff anyway. We have been on their 3 weeks of drip feed PR plans and next week was already earmarked by all the gaffers so..... and don't get me on the HZD 2, which by the way adds nothing to the already predicted and expected stuff, it's been known they wanted flying mechanics for the first game and couldn't do just because of HDDs... there is nothing to see here imo

Yes. I am simply pasting what was deleted.

 

[Von Hugh]

Fastest ban in the wild west

 

[B_Boss]

Bro I remember playing Medal of Honor and damn tht audio was sooooo good. Dice are wizards with audio in their fps military games so I cant wait!!

I still believe BF3 and Bad Company 2 have , personally, the best FPS sounds I’ve ever heard on console. They both would scare the shit out of me when playing, explosions, gunshots, you name it. Intense As all hell and I literally cannot imagine what those psycho devs are going to do with Battlefield on PS5 with Tempest....good grief.

 

[44alltheway]

Let’s goooo

 

[FeiRR]

I still believe BF3 and Bad Company 2 have , personally, the best FPS sounds I’ve ever heard on console. They both would scare the shit out of me when playing, explosions, gunshots, you name it. Intense As all hell and I literally cannot imagine what those psycho devs are going to do with Battlefield on PS5 with Tempest....good grief.

'War tapes' audio preset, nothing else! But have you played Titanfall 2?

 

[Great Hair]

damn you whoever81

 

[LED Guy?]

The guy got banned already, it’s just fake news.

 

[whoever81]

Ok ok. I am deleting from Reddit too damn it!

 

[Great Hair]

 

[Evilms]

RTX 2080 Super
Turing
48 SM
3072 cuda cores
1815MHz
11.15TF
8 GB GDDR6
256 bit
496 GB/s

RTX 2080Ti
Turing
68 SM
4352 cuda cores
1545MHz
13.45 Tflops
11 GB GDDR6
352 bit
616 GB/s

The difference in relative performance is 9~16% between the two cards on more than 20 games tested in 1080p, 1440p and 2160p.


PS5
RDNA2
36 CUs
2304 shading units
2230MHz
10.3TF
16 GB GDDR6
256 bit
448 GB/s

Series X
RDNA2
52 CUs
3328 shading units
1825MHz
12.1TF
16 GB GDDR6
320 bit
560 GB/s (10G) & 336 GB/s (6G)

So, the gap will be even smaller between the PS5 and the XseX than it is between the 2080 Super and the 2080 Ti.

 

[Aceofspades]

RTX 2080 Super
Turing
48 SM
3072 cuda cores
1815MHz
11.15TF
8 GB GDDR6
256 bit
496 GB/s

RTX 2080Ti
Turing
68 SM
4352 cuda cores
1545MHz
13.45 Tflops
11 GB GDDR6
352 bit
616 GB/s

The difference in relative performance is 9~16% between the two cards on more than 20 games tested in 1080p, 1440p and 2160p.


PS5
RDNA2
36 CUs
2304 shading units
2230MHz
10.3TF
16 GB GDDR6
256 bit
448 GB/s

Series X
RDNA2
52 CUs
3328 shading units
1825MHz
12.1TF
16 GB GDDR6
320 bit
560 GB/s (10G) & 336 GB/s (6G)

So, the gap will be even smaller between the PS5 and the XseX than it is between the 2080 Super and the 2080 Ti.

We never had Playstation and Xbox be this close in power...EVER

 

[LED Guy?]

RTX 2080 Super
Turing
48 SM
3072 cuda cores
1815MHz
11.15TF
8 GB GDDR6
256 bit
496 GB/s

RTX 2080Ti
Turing
68 SM
4352 cuda cores
1545MHz
13.45 Tflops
11 GB GDDR6
352 bit
616 GB/s

The difference in relative performance is 9~16% between the two cards on more than 20 games tested in 1080p, 1440p and 2160p.


PS5
RDNA2
36 CUs
2304 shading units
2230MHz
10.3TF
16 GB GDDR6
256 bit
448 GB/s

Series X
RDNA2
52 CUs
3328 shading units
1825MHz
12.1TF
16 GB GDDR6
320 bit
560 GB/s (10G) & 336 GB/s (6G)

So, the gap will be even smaller between the PS5 and the XseX than it is between the 2080 Super and the 2080 Ti.

Yeah that’s what I have been saying but NNNOOO, I’m a Sony fanboy and all that, the differences will be almost negligible in the end.

 

[M-V2]

I will say it one last time, guys don't believe any insider even if he got vetted by mods, these folks (insiders) are walking L's

 

[ZywyPL]

dang it!

But what if? that whole HZD2 concept sounds nice.

Especially the part with wind physics, on which GG already did amazing job in KZ2.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I knew it was fake news, thanks for being a great moderator, Mod of War!

Can we apply an automatic ban for recently created neo accounts self claiming to be in the know?

 

[sircaw]

I know it was fake but dammit i did like the sky hunter name.
I am so ready for flying mounts in the sequel.

 

[jackets with pockets]

Bullshit, but I'll believe you, Mikey.

Rest in peace.

 

[SgtCaffran]

i'm not making PS5 vs XsX just saying that you're wrong on your comparison your made before tempest engine can provide room reflections, reverb (indoor, outdoor, caves, etc) even posted video where cerny tells that.

What you are saying does not even contradict my post so I'm not getting your point. Yes developers can use computational power of the Tempest Engine for all sorts of audio calculations (as stated in my earlier post). Yes these can include reverb. No the Tempest Engine's main technology is not regarding room acoustics simulation. I'm just repeating my earlier posts at this point.

i don't get it how can you compare HRTF and Project Acoustics totaly 2 different things one simulates ears other acoustics.
it's not like project acoustics doesn't require computation for reverbs fx it just provides 3d map for convolution reverb but you still have to apply reverb on these maps and that requires DSP processing power would be some magic if i could use convolution reverb in my DAW without taxing my cpu same applies to consoles.

Yes they are two very seperate things. Again, like I have stated in my previous posts. Do you even read my posts or are you just looking for a pointless discussion?

 

[joe_zazen]

Some people know it, sure, others have invested a lot of time into fudging the facts to create an impression that the PS5 is technically superior hardware by zeroing in on very specific features and downplaying any Series X advantage. It goes on for page after page as if the spec reveals never happened.

It would be shame if anyone was mislead by that spin - and they well could be if they were to come to this thread late.

I'm not trying to get people to 'renounce their PS5' purchase at all, the PS5 will be awesome on it's own terms. Nor am I 'gloating', all I'm doing is restating the known facts when it seems that they've been forgotten or buried by an avalanche of denials.

Restating those facts is not something that should upset anyone.

the story on which console is technically ‘the best’ has yet to be written. No one here has enough tech knowledge to say for sure one way or the other. And, as has been mentioned many times, tools and easy of developing plays a huge role as the ps3 has shown. It is entirely possible that in seven years time, ps5 will have been ‘the best’, just as it is possible xsx will be. Or they could be equivalent. Who knows.

So, yeah, no need to save the deluded from making a terrible mistake and buying the wrong box because we aren't sure which one that is yet. And maybe there is no wrong box, just different flavors.

but yeah, if you need maximum flops for something like mining, xsx will be the one.

 

[Grodiak]

 

[xacto]

I knew it was fake news, thanks for being a great moderator, Mod of War!

Lately, it became just as interesting to check NeoGAF's ban history page just as it's checking this thread

 

[Kazekage1981]

Bo Hazem's memes always sucked and were annoying.

 

[Darius87]

What you are saying does not even contradict my post so I'm not getting your point. Yes developers can use computational power of the Tempest Engine for all sorts of audio calculations (as stated in my earlier post). Yes these can include reverb. No the Tempest Engine's main technology is not regarding room acoustics simulation. I'm just repeating my earlier posts at this point.

so why you stated that tempest engine doesn't support reverb, reflections? that's is contradiction.

Yes they are two very seperate things. Again, like I have stated in my previous posts. Do you even read my posts or are you just looking for a pointless discussion?

i do read.
can you quote yourself? where you said that they are two very seperate things. seems i missed that. but why then compare them? hmmm.... strange.

 

[xacto]

Bullshit, but I'll believe you, Mikey.

Rest in peace.

Indeed, GhanaSaysGoodbye is a good sub-Reddit

 

[Imtjnotu]

Bo Hazem's memes always sucked and were annoying.

Cause they were pro sony huh lol

 

[LED Guy?]

Wow!! Rand Al Thor 19 made a video about the latest 4Chan Xbox leak and he’s saying that it is real 100%!!

I’m very excited about what Xbox will be doing, he’s saying that Xbox will have a reveal event in May with a selection of games to showcase the XSX, and a huge event in June, so just like what they did with the Xbox One reveals back in 2013, one in May and the other in June.

 

[SgtCaffran]

can you quote yourself? where you said that they are two very seperate things. seems i missed that. but why then compare them? hmmm.... strange.

People are constantly mentioning both hardware audio chips in a single breath (for example: "but XsX also has a hardware audio chip!") and I am trying to explain that they are for very different purposes.

PS5 > HRTF, binaural 3D audio
XsX > Room acoustics simulation

And maybe they both can do much more that we don't know yet. We haven't seen - or rather: heard - raytracing used for audio yet. Who knows how well RT audio matches wave-simulated acoustics. Apparently Microsoft believes that their Project Acoustics has merit in the XsX even though the XsX could do audio with raytracing just like the PS5.

So if raytracing gives perfect audio simulation, why did Microsoft continue with Project Acoustics? Those are interesting questions.

 

[jasondefaoite]

Cause they were pro sony huh lol

Nah. They were just annoying.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Lately, it became just as interesting to check NeoGAF's ban history page just as it's checking this thread

I never noticed that page existed, the reasons are really something special. Props to the writer(s) there.

Are there other hidden gems like this? I was thread-banned for like a week, but that didn't make it on the page. Would have been funny to see the reason on that one (plus I don't really know what post prompted that, I feel like my post history is consistently aloof, LOL).

 

[Grodiak]

People are constantly mentioning both hardware audio chips in a single breath (for example: "but XsX also has a hardware audio chip!") and I am trying to explain that they are for very different purposes.

Not at all a tech-wiz regarding audio chips in consoles OR game development but EXTREMELY intrigued to see how much power each solution packs!

I've done sound design and re-recording mixing in the film realm, working in 5.1 7.1, 7.1.2 worlds for what it's worth, and one thing I can say for a fact (at least living in ProTools) is that real-time calculations such as convolution reverb etc can be very taxing. Obviously both boxes have dedicated hardware to unload those tasks from the CPU - but how much can something that is bound to be rather affordable handle? Or will there be less "real time" calculation going on, with devs having to bake in more than people here would hope. Interesting times.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Bo Hazem's memes always sucked and were annoying.

Nah. They were just annoying.

Actually they are quite funny.

But you know, it is always easy talk about banned users now that they cant reply

 

[nosseman]

We never had Playstation and Xbox be this close in power...EVER

It is the smallest and the biggest gap at the same time.

Smallest by percentages and biggest in tflop.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

We need some more speculation!

Who knew Bo could drag on 3D audio like it's the return of Jesus Christ for 10 pages.

 

[ethomaz]

Nah. They were just annoying.

They were funny.

 

[travisktl]

People are constantly mentioning both hardware audio chips in a single breath (for example: "but XsX also has a hardware audio chip!") and I am trying to explain that they are for very different purposes.

PS5 > HRTF, binaural 3D audio
XsX > Room acoustics simulation

And maybe they both can do much more that we don't know yet. We haven't seen - or rather: heard - raytracing used for audio yet. Who knows how well RT audio matches wave-simulated acoustics. Apparently Microsoft believes that their Project Acoustics has merit in the XsX even though the XsX could do audio with raytracing just like the PS5.

So if raytracing gives perfect audio simulation, why did Microsoft continue with Project Acoustics? Those are interesting questions.

That's kind of the point of RT audio though, is it not? Just like RT lighting, it's meant to simulate everything in the most realistic way. For example, check out this video. It's someone just messing with RT audio in UE4, but it allows for very accurate representation of the room they're currently in, down to the materials used and everything. There are a few awesome videos on youtube going over RT audio, and even though they are an early glimpse into what can be done, it's all very exciting stuff.

 

[Darius87]

People are constantly mentioning both hardware audio chips in a single breath (for example: "but XsX also has a hardware audio chip!") and I am trying to explain that they are for very different purposes.

PS5 > HRTF, binaural 3D audio
XsX > Room acoustics simulation

And maybe they both can do much more that we don't know yet. We haven't seen - or rather: heard - raytracing used for audio yet. Who knows how well RT audio matches wave-simulated acoustics. Apparently Microsoft believes that their Project Acoustics has merit in the XsX even though the XsX could do audio with raytracing just like the PS5.

So if raytracing gives perfect audio simulation, why did Microsoft continue with Project Acoustics? Those are interesting questions.

so why you stated that tempest engine doesn't support reverb, reflections? that's is contradiction. still can't answer?

what audio chips are made for is for processing DSP signals that's all, and that's requires low latency processors saying xsex audio block made mainly for room acoustics or ps5 mainly for HRTF is like saying my gpu or cpu mainly does one thing, that's not good analogy you're making.
these audio chips can do calculations for various game tasks do they intended for that? i don't know, so what's matter most in these chips is computational power to process multiple audio sources, reverbs are DSP signals like audio.

 

[M-V2]

Bo Hazem's memes always sucked and were annoying.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[FranXico]

It is the smallest and the biggest gap at the same time.

Smallest by percentages and biggest in tflop.

Absolute values are smaller than ever compared to the power baseline.
Both consoles will be the most powerful yet as well.

 

[LED Guy?]

I think both Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 are better than each other in some things.

Xbox Series X is better in GPU power by 16% which really negligible, and better memory bandwidth.
PS5 is better in SSD speeds, it’s way better in fact.

 

[kareemna]

Did you know that the PS2 was the weakest console of its generation?

I think both Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 are better than each other in some things.

Xbox Series X is better in GPU power by 16% which really negligible, and better memory bandwidth.
PS5 is better in SSD speeds, it’s way better in fact.

the 16% depends on each game, and the memory is more complication matter than simply overall bandwidth.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

We need some more speculation!

Who knew Bo could drag on 3D audio like it's the return of Jesus Christ for 10 pages.

Nah lets reduce the speculations and wait for more meat. Some people here know what they talk about but most just have superficial knowledge but discuss like they know exactly whats going on. Which is getting really tedious.

My knowledge in these topics is superficial, too so its hard to follow all these tech talk. However I'm working kind of in that biz so I feel comfortable at filtering bullshit from something that might be true.

What I am missing is someone whos unbiased but has vast knowledge about Console Hardware, Programming, APIs and Gameengines who could actually explain the current hardware specs and features in detail but also simple enough.

Anyhow judging by _my_ superfical knowlegde and taking all current specs into consideration i would say that the Xbox has the better gpu and sony the bettter ssd/io tech. ( At least thats what the current available information suggests )

Also at least for _me_ Sonys Audio solutions seems to be more interesting then microsofts.

However in the end games will decide the outcome. Based on the past I'd bet on Sony as the winner of the next-gen. I don't believe ms will sell more Consoles then sony. I think they might be able to sell about 75% as many consoles as Sony tops. However I don't think this will happen. All of my real-life family and friends who have a console play on Playstation (so about 30-0 for Sony) and as long as theres no crossplay between Sony and MS it will stay that way.

Btw. I don't think most consoleros give a fuck about the specs, discussions on forums, fud on the web and all those silly newsmagazins because I am the only one in my social environment whos actually interested right now. Everybody else is just waiting until those consoles hit the shelf.
So all this nonsens about Sony or MS making wrong PR and whatnot is pointless. Internet Warriors always think they are the "mass" that has be convinced and satisfied and entitled to demand what they think should be done while thats utter bullshit.

 

[Tetragrammaton_Knight]

That's kind of the point of RT audio though, is it not? Just like RT lighting, it's meant to simulate everything in the most realistic way. For example, check out this video. It's someone just messing with RT audio in UE4, but it allows for very accurate representation of the room they're currently in, down to the materials used and everything. There are a few awesome videos on youtube going over RT audio, and even though they are an early glimpse into what can be done, it's all very exciting stuff.

This video is showcasing Steam Audio, not "ray-traced audio" tech that PS5 is planning to use. And Steam Audio is actually quite similar to "Project Acoustics" that Microsoft will be using in XSX. So your video showcases how XSX is going to sound more than PS5. A tech presentation on "Project Acoustics" with some samples:


Also, "Project Acoustics" at current level of technology is a more streamlined approach, because it allows to make the most compute intensive wave calculations beforehand and bake them into the game level, so no intense load will be created when running the game, while having acoustic simulation of top quality. There is no single chip in the world that can do such calculations in real-time, technology is simply not ready. And whatever "RT audio" PS5 will have - it won't be a full real-time sound wave simulation of the same level that "Project Acoustic" has. But with some rough approximations and then a bunch of tricks they might make it sound at least close to "Project Acoustics".

On the other hand Sony's approach should deliver better sound results in games with fully dynamic environments (like destructible buildings/walls, causing changes in sound wave propagation), however nothing stops Microsoft from allocating a part of GPU RT to process the sounds and get similar result as Sony in dynamic environment games, while still maintaining advantage in graphics.

All in all, no clear winner here. Both consoles will deliver audio of similar quality, which will definitely surpass the previous generation.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

It is the smallest and the biggest gap at the same time.

Smallest by percentages and biggest in tflop.

Not this TFs difference bullshit again.
There is something called PROPORTIONS. A thing percentages respects, linear numbers don't.
Only thinking 2 TFs is a big difference because is a bigger number compared to previous consoles, while the new consoles uses bigger fucking numbers just for everything, is out of any logic.
In seven years consoles are gonna touch 80-100 TFs, at that point a 10 TFs difference is likely.
See what's happening? Difference is "bigger" every gen. This is incredible, how is even possible, right?
I shouldn't explain this.

 

[SonGoku]

Based on what Cerny said they are still working on making this work. So Sony's solution is still "half-baked".

They are still working on TV speakers & multi speaker setups. There's a inherent technical limitation of speakers because one ear can hear what is meant for the other ear. Which is why Dolby recommends/limits to 32 sources
Headphone solution, the gold standard for 3D audio as Cerny put it, is finished.

PS5 Tempest Engine
- DOES NOT provide room reflections, reverb (indoor, outdoor, caves, etc)

XsX project Acoustics
- DOES provide room simulation for reflections, reverb, etc (indoor, outdoor, caves, etc)

This is done by RT hardware on both consoles Audio RT, what Project Acoustics has on top off that is offline simulations for prebaked audio.
Cerny mentioned TE could do reverb calculations

 

[travisktl]

They are still working on TV speakers & multi speaker setups. There's a inherent technical limitation of speakers because one ear can hear what is meant for the other ear. Which is why Dolby recommends/limits to 32 sources
Headphone solution, the gold standard for 3D audio as Cerny put it, is finished.

This is done by RT hardware on both consoles Audio RT, what Project Acoustics has on top off that is offline simulations for prebaked audio.
Cerny mentioned TE could do reverb calculations

Exactly. Reverberation is the buildup of sound reflections, and the following decay of the audio being absorbed by surrounding objects and surfaces. I'm pretty sure you can't do RT audio without accounting for room reflections and reverb. Just like RT lighting simulates how light rays bounce off of objects and intersect, RT audio does this with the audio bouncing off of objects and the material they're made out of. It simulates how that audio will reflect around the room, and hit other objects (or lack of objects) while it's making it's way back to your ears.

 

[BGs]

Are you alright?

Nope