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[whoever81]

does this josh guy have an xbox following? a $399 ps5 will at least sell just as well as the xbox. if not more.
i think both consoles will be $499 and sell about the same in NA with MS having a small lead in NA and Sony a slightly bigger lead in europe.

Most probably an xbox following. However I see that he has Ghost of Tsushima as his profile banner and posts stuff in favor of Sony and Playstation
For instance he retweeted the following. That's more like it.

 

[SonGoku]

I totally agree that with reconstruction tecniques native resolution is just a surpassed concept. DLSS 2.0 is a great example of this, progress is not increasing with no limits, is doing the same or more with less. Unfortunately, marketing is marketing, but I really hope we look at image quality from a more efficient perspective than just MOAR PIXELS.

I agree on all points except that i think dlss is overrated, there is no one reconstruction technique to rule them all (not aimed at you specifically)
Devs will pick and choose what fits their game aesthetics, performance and engine the best

 

[nosseman]

Well guesses from Reddit.
There is no example or hint from AMD that they can chance the ROPs layout.
They didn’t change from GCN to RDNA.... what make that guy believes it changed from RDNA to RDNA 2?

I mean it is possible? Yes but for now there is nothing that support that theory.

It is quite a big increase in CUs compared to 5700 XT.

I guess we have to wait and see.

I am used to be shot down here. I theorized in this thread that PS4 would use turbo/boost before the announcement and was shot down as it would be "IMPOSSIBLE!", "NO CONSOLE HAVE EVER USED THAT BEFORE" and "DEVELOPERS NEED TO HAVE CONSISTENT PERFORMANCE!!".

 

[ethomaz]

It is quite a big increase in CUs compared to 5700 XT.

I guess we have to wait and see.

I am used to be shot down here. I theorized in this thread that PS4 would use turbo/boost before the announcement and was shot down as it would be "IMPOSSIBLE!", "NO CONSOLE HAVE EVER USED THAT BEFORE" and "DEVELOPERS NEED TO HAVE CONSISTENT PERFORMANCE!!".

PS5 doesn’t use Turbo Boost.

The base clock is 2230Mhz... there is not Game or Boost clock.

If you have to compare with something on PC... PS5 downclock is more like C-states but that only similar... there is nothing in PC like what Sony did with PS5.

 

[pawel86ck]

It's going to be a gimmick next gen because we don't have enough power to make it work in full resolution and at 60 FPS.

RT with compromises or not still simulates how real life lighting works. If RT in current games is a gimmick to you so what about raster techniques? Baked GI, screen space reflecrions are not gimmicks?

 

[CrysisFreak]

RT with compromises or not still simulates how real life lighting works. If RT in current games is a gimmick to you so what about raster techniques? Baked GI, screen space reflecrions are not gimmicks?

You're completely missing the point. It's not a gimmick it's insanely awesome, except right now you can't have the full version of it, just some aspects and even they take a toll on performance (a big one).
That's why he uses the maybe-not-so-ideal term gimmick. Because it's not here yet in full. Rasterisation is nearly done and here to stay for another 10 years probably.

 

[Tripolygon]

Both solutions actually encompass software and hardware. In that sense they are comparable but in other aspects the goals are very different.

Anything is comparable in that sense. A phone encompass software and hardware so therefore it is comparable to a high end desktop.

Project Acoustics has a software side that does a room acoustics model based on offline calculations. The Xbox Series X also has a hardware chip dedicated to implementing this model. Now unfortunately we do not have details yet on this chip so it's difficult to compare with the PS5 Tempest Engine. I personally expect the TE to be more powerful.

Then don't compare things you don't know about. Project Acoustics is just software designed to run a pre-computed model on CPU with very little cost.

That being said, the Tempest solution by Sony also has a software and hardware side. The Engine itself is an audio processor like you said and it's primary goal is the Tempest HRTF software (they use the Tempest name for this as well if I recall correctly).

HRTF is the convolution of HRIR using fast fourier transform. Tempest engine is just a hardware designed to be good at CONVOLUTION. I really don't understand how hard that is to get.

Now we know that the PS5 solution allows devs to use any leftover computation for other audio calculations and I expect the Xbox chip to allow the same (would make sense but there is no confirmation on that).

Tempest engine can be used however the devs see fit to use it, just like how devs can use the capability of a CPU and GPU however they see fit. What you are alluding to is when Mark Cerny said it has enough power to do HRTF convolution for hundreds of sound objects as well as convolutional reverb and other effects.

The TE is indeed a custom audio chip that will be very good in handling the Tempest HRTF calculations and other (standard) audio calculations. However, what you shouldn't expect is full room acoustics simulation with wave construction/deconstruction in real time. That is in no way possible even with the relatively powerful TE audio chip.

That is what convolutional reverb is. It can be done using a CPU, GPU or a DSP. Games have been doing it, it is a big part of AMD push for True Audio Next. Using GPU compute for sound simulation, big part of VR.

Also, the XsX uses a custom audio chip to implement the Project Acoustics models. We have no idea how powerful it will be, though.

All we know is Series X has a custom audio chip. What it is capable of is unknown. PS4 and Xbox One has custom audio chips too. Its main job was sound decoding and for speech recognition, it also had other capabilities as well. Project Acoustics is a sound engine that plugs into game engines and runs on CPU but that's not to say it can't be made to run on GPU or a dedicated DSP. What role the DSP plays is entirely unknown. These are the facts and any attempt at equivocating what project acoustics is with tempest 3d audio tech is facile.

 

[xool]

They were funny.

Funny, but annoying.

Surprised Bo got banned, he was annoying but funny. No meltdown.

He really did drag out that 3d audio stuff though .. maybe it's for the best. He'll be back though. You know it.

 

[Vae_Victis]

It's real or another fake ?

It's 99% fake.

It's a dude on Reddit roleplaying as an insider who first said the game is coming out at the end of 2020 (and at the same time as AC?) along with a non-descriptive piece of environmental concept art as "evidence". Then he published a terrible 3D render of the Prince



selling it as a screenshot from the game, that might as well be one of those DAZ Studio models used in bad ads of porn browser games.

This is very clearly the same exact model but covered up / blurred more to make the terrible quality just a bit less obvious. Which he almost managed, if not for the fact that the lower back part of the dress still looks like a poorly subdivided and smoothed surface in Blender.

Unless Ubisoft is going for a semi-cartoony look and outsourced development to the lowers possible bidder in the universe, this looks very obviously fake to me.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

It is quite a big increase in CUs compared to 5700 XT.

I guess we have to wait and see.

I am used to be shot down here. I theorized in this thread that PS4 would use turbo/boost before the announcement and was shot down as it would be "IMPOSSIBLE!", "NO CONSOLE HAVE EVER USED THAT BEFORE" and "DEVELOPERS NEED TO HAVE CONSISTENT PERFORMANCE!!".

Ps5 aint usin no turbo/boost

 

[nosseman]

PS5 doesn’t use Turbo Boost.

The base clock is 2230Mhz... there is not Game or Boost clock.

If you have to compare with something on PC... PS5 downclock is more like C-states but that only similar... there is nothing in PC like what Sony did with PS5.

Ps5 aint usin no turbo/boost

Boost/Down clock - its really the same thing isnt it?

2230Mhz isn't the base clock - its the maximum/capped clock.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Sony-SoC-PS5.jpg

Even Cerny said it was boosted:

Transcribe - The Road to PS5 - Mark Cerny's a deep dive into the PlayStation 5 - - The Road to Next Gen Ludens

Thank you Jim. There will be lots of chances later on this year to look at the PlayStation 5 games.Today I want to talk a bit about our goals for the PlayStation 5 hardware and how they influenced the development of the console.

playstationvr.hateblo.jp

Then we went with a variable frequency strategy for PlayStation 5 which is to say we
continuously run the GPU and CPU in boost mode.

 

[CrysisFreak]

It's 99% fake.

It's a dude on Reddit roleplaying as an insider who first said the game is coming out at the end of 2020 (and at the same time as AC?) along with a non-descriptive piece of environmental concept art as "evidence". Then he published a terrible 3D render of the Prince



selling it as a screenshot from the game, that might as well be one of those DAZ Studio models used in bad ads of porn browser games.

This is very clearly the same exact model but covered up / blurred more to make the terrible quality just a bit less obvious. Which he almost managed, if not for the fact that the lower back part of the dress still looks like a poorly subdivided and smoothed surface in Blender.

Unless Ubisoft is going for a semi-cartoony look and outsourced development to the lowers possible bidder in the universe, this looks very obviously fake to me.

Well it could theoretically be early in development and therefore still prototypeish although yeah it's probably fake

 

[mckmas8808]

Like you, I'd prefer that they lower polygon count and texture resolutions in order to maintain high framerates (60 fps).

As for ray tracing, I honestly don't think that either console will be powerful enough to implement ray tracing to a significant degree. The most powerful RTX card by Nvidia can render games with decent framerates when ray tracing is activated at only 1080p. So, I doubt that consoles would be able to do better, even if their GPUs are based on a new architecture from AMD. XSX had to run Minecraft at 1080p with ray tracing turned on in order to perform well, and Minecraft isn't a graphically demanding game.

You guys are forgetting that DLSS 2.0 makes ray-tracing a game changer (yes I know DLSS is an Nvidia solution). If\when AMD, Sony, or MS come up with their own version Ray-Tracing "WILL BE" the huge visual next-gen look that will define next-gen AAA games.

 

[pawel86ck]

You're completely missing the point. It's not a gimmick it's insanely awesome, except right now you can't have the full version of it, just some aspects and even they take a toll on performance (a big one).
That's why he uses the maybe-not-so-ideal term gimmick. Because it's not here yet in full. Rasterisation is nearly done and here to stay for another 10 years probably.

I have mentioned two posts earlier RT is very demanding and sometimes maybe even not worth the performance hit, but calling it gimmick is just wrong and especially if you consider how raster lighting methods works (almost everything is either prebaked, or use screen space data for reflections).

 

[ethomaz]

Boost/Down clock - its really the same thing isnt it?

2230Mhz isn't the base clock - its the maximum/capped clock.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Sony-SoC-PS5.jpg

Even Cerny said it was boosted:

Transcribe - The Road to PS5 - Mark Cerny's a deep dive into the PlayStation 5 - - The Road to Next Gen Ludens

Thank you Jim. There will be lots of chances later on this year to look at the PlayStation 5 games.Today I want to talk a bit about our goals for the PlayStation 5 hardware and how they influenced the development of the console.

playstationvr.hateblo.jp

They are not the same thing.

“AMD Turbo Core technology dynamically adjusts to give you a performance boost just when the operating system requests the highest processor performance. If a core is operating below maximum limits and your workload demands additional performance, the processor frequency will dynamically increase until the upper limit of frequency is reached. As your workload subsides, the core returns to normal frequency. This gives you optimized application performance within the thermal and power limits of your APU.”

What PS5 does is the opposite.

It runs all the time at 2230Mhz (base clock) if no workload is being executed and so it downclock if the workload is heavy enough to reach the limit of power draw for the APU set by Sony.

PS5 normal frequency for GPU is 2230Mhz and CPU is 3.5Ghz... it will never boost frequencies.

 

[nosseman]

They are not the same thing.

“AMD Turbo Core technology dynamically adjusts to give you a performance boost just when the operating system requests the highest processor performance. If a core is operating below maximum limits and your workload demands additional performance, the processor frequency will dynamically increase until the upper limit of frequency is reached. As your workload subsides, the core returns to normal frequency. This gives you optimized application performance within the thermal and power limits of your APU.”

What PS5 does is the opposite.

It runs all the time at 2230Mhz (base clock) if no workload is being executed and so it downclock if the workload is heavy enough to reach the limit of power draw for the APU set by Sony.

PS5 normal frequency for GPU is 2230Mhz and CPU is 3.5Ghz... it will never boost frequencies.

I never said that it was the same thing. I said that PS5 is boosted and the GPU is capped at 2230Mhz.

Cerny said it himself. They run in boost mode (up to 2230Mhz) all the time. That does not mean base clock is 2230Mhz. I belived this was pretty clear from the presentation. Sony does not use the term base clock and instead use the term boost and capped.

Boost/Turbo or Down clock/throttle.

 

[Vae_Victis]

Well it could theoretically be early in development and therefore still prototypeish although yeah it's probably fake

• early in development
• "coming out at the end of 2020"

Pick one

 

[SlimySnake]

Man, it’s posts like these that make me want to put you on ignore. We are dealing with a global pandemic. Of course that is going to completely change how Sony doesn’t their marketing. We already know Sony was supposed to unveil the PS5 back in February followed by the technical blowout at GDC. That didn’t happen.

“W-well what about MS!?”

What about them? They had to get out ahead of Sony because they have no choice. They got the dogshit beat out of them this generation, so they have no choice, but to jump out and tell anyone who will listen about the greatness of the XSX. Meanwhile, Sony casually drops a picture of the DualSense and becomes one of the most liked gaming tweets and IG posts ever. Hardcore gamers are sitting here arguing over which box is better, but the majority of the mainstream doesn’t know or doesn’t care about specs. All they want to know is if the box is stronger than their current box for a reasonable price. All this ballyhoo about “multiplatform games being better on XSX, etc. isn’t going to mean shit in a world where the difference between both systems is the lowest ever. Stop freaking out for no reason.

lol im not going to always say stuff that everyone likes just to get some likes. thats how you get echo chambers like era. Not sure why you think I am freaking out. My post is far more level headed than yours.

Power advantage matters. specs matter. Price advantage matters. I'd agree that things are a bit different than they were the previous two gens when the 360 and the ps4 were more powerful and offered better performance. However, if the PS5 comes in at $499 then MS will have a spec advantage, and they WILL lose sales. Maybe not as much as they did in the PS3 era or how much MS lost in the xbox one era, but it will be significant. You can go back and see how many November and Decembers Xbox One won in NA. Despite all the negative press, they did extremely well in NA thanks to mexicans and cod bros. A better console at launch will help them take back the market share they lost. it happens every gen.

And I dont buy the polls and likes. If we went by polls, hilary would be president. If we went by polls, the PS4 would have a 96% market share because thats what the polls said last gen. If we go by likes then the Road to PS5 has 117k dislikes. I dont think i have seen a single PS video with that many dislikes. All I am saying is that Sony needs to get their act together, they have already messed by giving up the tflops advantage to try and save a few dollars, and now they are messing up the messaging by revealing logos and revealing their console with the most boring presentation of all time.

 

[CrysisFreak]

• early in development
• "coming out at the end of 2020"

Pick one

You're underestimating the power of outsourcing to India
/s

 

[IntentionalPun]

Boost/Down clock - its really the same thing isnt it?

Glass half full vs half empty; so sure....

But in general, the way a "boost" is described is "when something needs a boost, it's overclocked"...

The PS5 essentially does the opposite; when the workload is too high it has to downclock.

So by the english language, sure, claiming "it runs at boost most of the time" isn't some bold faced lie.. it is not how the term is generally used to describe what a boost mode is for.

 

[ethomaz]

I never said that it was the same thing. I said that PS5 is boosted and the GPU is capped at 2230Mhz.

Cerny said it himself. They run in boost mode (up to 2230Mhz) all the time. That does not mean base clock is 2230Mhz. I belived this was pretty clear from the presentation. Sony does not use the term base clock and instead use the term boost and capped.

Boost/Turbo or Down clock/throttle.

The GPU is not boosted lol

2230Mhz is the normal clock it runs when doing nothing or most of workloads.

It downclock depending of workload.
It is simple when you the brake of your car you say you are boosting it speed? Sony has a virtual “brake” to use when they thought workload is reaching the power draw limit.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

You guys are forgetting that DLSS 2.0 makes ray-tracing a game changer (yes I know DLSS is an Nvidia solution). If\when AMD, Sony, or MS come up with their own version Ray-Tracing "WILL BE" the huge visual next-gen look that will define next-gen AAA games.

I doubt that such technology will be implemented on the PS5 and the XSX, as I think that it would require hardware that would be designed specifically to implement it, just as Nvidia's DLSS requires Tensor cores, which only RTX cards possess.

 

[SonGoku]

PS5 doesn’t use Turbo Boost.

The base clock is 2230Mhz... there is not Game or Boost clock.

If you have to compare with something on PC... PS5 downclock is more like C-states but that only similar... there is nothing in PC like what Sony did with PS5.

But he was talking about PS4

 

[Grodiak]

Many people these days have Atmos speakers hanging or built into their ceilings actually.

Depending on your definition of "many". I know many people of which none have atmos speakers hanging on their ceiling.

 

[xool]

Why would devs target something that is not common spec for every user? They never put much effort in features that only a minority would use.
That's tempest engine biggest advantage (besides it excelling at processing audio): Each PS5 has that audio capability without the need for peripherals and external processors of varying spec.

My suspicion was that it may have originally been built for VR .. I think that it may be overspecified for the average speaker set up.

My cynical side however, thinks Sony is cheap as fuck and has a bare bones marketing and PR dept that cannot market effectively in 2020. So the reveal will be another headshaking wtf. And this cheapness extends to what games they will have coming. All big ones will be cross gen, and the next gen exclusives will be like ps4 in 2013. So we will see the equivalent of knack, Killzone, and resogun.

That delayed 2019 launch makes sense here. And explained why Sony has oveclocked a chip that seems weaker compared to the competion - if they had been launching in 2019 that thing at 2GHz would have been unbeatable. There were persistent rumors about a delay launch..

Their PR is underperforming too - it's true - but PlayStation is a juggernaut - will it even matter ?

... I don't even know who's left .. Herman Hultz ? - He's been MIA too, but PR isn't his job.

 

[ethomaz]

I doubt that such technology will be implemented on the PS5 and the XSX, as I think that it would require hardware that would be designed specifically to implement it, just as Nvidia's DLSS requires Tensor cores, which only RTX cards possess.

I thought DSLL is a reconstruction tech just like Checkboard.

It is just a different logic/algorithm.

Edit - Sure DSLL is more accurate because it uses an trained AI to reconstruct the image... nVidiq uses a super farm computer to run the game at 8K or more to train the AI to know what it should reconstruct.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

The GPU is not boosted lol

2230Mhz is the normal clock it runs when doing nothing or most of workloads.

It downclock depending of workload.

I think most people get confused about this with the PS5, that power is there to use when needed and it only slows down when not in use to help with thermals and power consumption.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I think most people get confused about this with the PS5, that power is there to use when needed and it only slows down when not in use to help with thermals and power consumption.

That is not true at all; it does not slow down when not in use... you have it backwards.

It slows down when it's use causes a large power draw; which would be for heavy loads as well as strange scenarios like PS4 menu screens.

 

[SlimySnake]

That is not true at all; it does not slow down when not in use... you have it backwards.

It slows down when it's use causes a large power draw; which would be for heavy loads as well as strange scenarios like PS4 menu screens.

cod warzone menu screen makes my pro fan go so loud i fear for its safety.

 

[SamWeb]

RDNA is limited to 64 ROPs.

Link please?)

https://www.techpowerup.com/255814/amd-navi-features-8-streaming-engines-possible-rop-count-doubling

They did it.

"Big Navi" is able to double the number of rops up to 128. It also does not look redundant in the case of using raytracing in its hybrid form.

 

[FeiRR]

Pretty sure he refers to compatibility with no upgrades.

Okay, then we know it's not true because PS4 games are rendered in higher res then downscaled to 1080p on a Pro (supersampling) or have patches which allow you to prioritize framerate or resolution. So Pro is backward compatible with base PS4.

LOL using this metric of yours most games were gimmicks this gen
Native 4k is a waste of resources btw, expect reconstruction techniques and dynamic resolution to be standard next gen

Okay, maybe I don't feel the word the proper way (I'm not a native speaker). Is 'trick' better? Best graphics is always about using tricks to make it look better than initially thought. That's why the best dev studios give their best output at the end of every generation. What I meant was that RT will get utilized better with every year but we can't expect it to be the feature which will be the most important in the coming generation.

 

[SamWeb]

What is your point? They are BOTH reconstructed at 1620p (i.e. upscaled to 1620p). Also, I admitted that the Pro version has inferior image quality; however, the difference is insignificant.

I have already outlined my position > pro-version of RE3 does not have a native 1620p

 

[IntentionalPun]

cod warzone menu screen makes my pro fan go so loud i fear for its safety.

That's a strange scenario where for whatever reason not much going on on screen causes GPU usage to shoot up and thus thermals to shoot up.

That weird scenario is actually an example of the GPU workload causing power draw to go up; the PS5 would cut the power to the GPU with no effect on the outcome. That is a unique scenario where the downclocking actually helps, hence why Cerny brought it up.

In normal gameplay scenarios the GPU or CPU will need to downclock when the load is too high, and it will effect the ability to render. But hopefully only slightly, as Cerny seems to insist most of the time they can both run at full.

 

[kikonawa]

cod warzone menu screen makes my pro fan go so loud i fear for its safety.

Same here

 

[ethomaz]

Link please?)

https://www.techpowerup.com/255814/amd-navi-features-8-streaming-engines-possible-rop-count-doubling

They did it.

"Big Navi" is able to double the number of rops up to 128. It also does not look redundant in the case of using raytracing in its hybrid form.

They are guessing based on BigNavi being twice the actual RDNA... 8 SA BRINGS 128 ROPs.
BTW that link is wrong AMD changed with 2 SA per SE with RDNA so it is not 8 SE like the news imply but 4 SEs with 2 SAs each or 2 SEe with 4 SAs each.

But all that is about rumors on RDNA 2.

RDNA just like GCN is limited to max 64 ROPs.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I thought DSLL is a reconstruction tech just like Checkboard.

It is just a different logic/algorithm.

Edit - Sure DSLL is more accurate because it uses an trained AI to reconstruct the image.

As far as I know, DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling) is achieved via artificial intelligence; neural networks at Nvidia's server houses study the source code of specific games and learn how to achieve the intended render outputs of said games via reconstruction of frames at relatively lower resolutions. The Tensor cores then access the learned information via driver updates.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I have already outlined my position > pro-version of RE3 does not have a native 1620p

Neither does the Xbox One X version; it's also upscaled to 1620p.

 

[ethomaz]

As far as I know, DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling) is achieved via artificial intelligence; neural networks at Nvidia's server houses study the source code of specific games and learn how to achieve the intended render outputs of said games via reconstruction of frames at relatively lower resolutions. The Tensor cores then access the learned information via driver updates.

Yeap but that just makes the reconstruction more accurate... it is still reconstruction tech just like checkboard.

 

[IntentionalPun]

As far as I know, DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling) is achieved via artificial intelligence; neural networks at Nvidia's server houses study the source code of specific games and learn how to achieve the intended render outputs of said games via reconstruction of frames at relatively lower resolutions. The Tensor cores then access the learned information via driver updates.

They do not use source code; it's the images that are sent to the neural-network and they are trained to recognize aliasing.

 

[SonGoku]

Boost/Down clock - its really the same thing isnt it?
2230Mhz isn't the base clock - its the maximum/capped clock.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Sony-SoC-PS5.jpg

It isn't boosting the way you implied and it doesn't have a traditional base clock either

I theorized in this thread that PS5 would use turbo/boost before the announcement and was shot down as it would be "IMPOSSIBLE!", "NO CONSOLE HAVE EVER USED THAT BEFORE" and "DEVELOPERS NEED TO HAVE CONSISTENT PERFORMANCE!!".

Those same issues remain and would make the boost solution you suggested unfit for consoles as it is too unpredictable and not under developers control

Boost/Turbo or Down clock/throttle.

The differentiating factors

• PS5 GPUs capped frequency is the sweet spot of its silicon design, its not a oc that's pushing the silicon beyond sustainable level, which is why it can stay at (or close to) the mark most of the time as opposed to a temporary boost.
• Downclocks are momentary (frames/scenes) and the "boost" is constant
• Developers have control over the power management and performance they get (clocks). Its deterministic as Cerny put it.

My suspicion was that it may have originally been built for VR .. I think that it may be overspecified for the average speaker set up.

Cerny mentioned headphones are the gold standard, so if you want the best experience headphones are a must
Im glad they invested in this as i have no interest in vr.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Sure...Color me doubtful regarding these results. This would be the biggest surprise in the history of gaming consoles.

Yeah I think these kind of statistics are useless. he runs a console centric page which he consistently talks about leaks, rumours and next-gen discussions. Here on this thread we discuss things like the capabilities and power of the two consoles, but outside of this thread and others, a lot of people won’t care. We forget that Playstation is a significantly larger brand than the Xbox internationally, as evident by the sales figures. As Corteks said “Here Sony have already won the console war if they hadn’t already based on their brand and identity alone”. Most people who will buy these consoles will buy them because of their exclusives, I know everyone keeps throwing that around but it’s very accurate. Those of us who played games such as God of War, HZD and Spiderman will already be invested in buying the sequels which will be next-gen exclusives. If you’re buying the consoles for power capabilities then that is still up in the air, but choosing the Series X over PS5 over a slight rendering and frame rate advantages is kind of silly, again that’s up for debate since we haven’t actually seen what either console is capable of nor a side by side comparison of a 3rd party game. Instant loading times are a given on the PS5 and they may seem like a gimmick feature but it matters to me, anyone who’s played games like The Witcher 3 will understand lol

 

[IntentionalPun]

Sure...Color me doubtful regarding these results. This would be the biggest surprise in the history of gaming consoles.

Probably got linked by an Xbox Youtuber, or an Xbox forum (lol they still have these?) or something.

All web based polls are trash.

PS5 is going to be significantly more popular than XSX either way; you don't lose the momentum Sony has over people bitching about variable frequencies online. Unless Sony royally screws up their launch, doesn't have games ready, or MS totally blows everyone away game wise.. expect PS5 to sell twice as much as XSX.. as that is the trend and the scenario I described is probably far fetched.

And even if MS does blow people away game wise and Sony falters, it will possibly still sell twice as much lol

 

[SgtCaffran]

so if you know some real advantage for ms aproach over sony i'm all ears.

Okay so again, this is not about MS > PS or PS > MS. At least, not for me.

I think the problem is that you're don't really know what convolution reverb is? and how it's made? that's why you're saying it's not same thing like RT audio, where in reallity it is same it works exactly like RT even without reverberation effects on audio sources RT by it self should produce convoluted reverb the quality of it depends of how many bounces RT could achieve.
even without RT audio acoustics there's no stoping for devs doing the same thing as ms aproach to save cycles for computing(ex like prebaked shadoews etc..) though it's more hurdle for devs then RT audio and there's all to it just to save cycles.

Well maybe I don't fully understand it, maybe you don't fully understand full audio simulation (maybe neither of us!).

Let's go a bit deeper, shall we. So how I understand convolution reverb is that you basically take a (recorded) known impulse response from a room/environment and from that you are able to calculate for any audio source how it would sound if both the source and receiver are in that environment.

However, the impulse response is dependent on the source/receiver position. So in order to truly simulate room acoustics, you would need to compute the impulse reponse for many different source/receiver positions. This is exactly what Project Acoustics does.

So without a prebaked model of the room acoustics, you would need to compute the impulse response for the gamers position and the current sound source positions in real-time! Now I believe the Tempest Engine audio chip is very very powerful but I doubt that it is able to do this. Calculate the convolution reverb for many sounds with a known impulse response? Sure. Compute the impulse response for the current source/receiver positions in real-time? I don't expect that to be possible.

Now for me several questions remain standing:
- How does RT audio fit into this? (can it be used to compute an impulse response for a room? How well is raytracing suited for wave behaviour?)
- What is the difference in audio experience when comparing fully simulated room acoustics and room audio based on a single (recorded or computed) impulse response?
- Would it be possible to combine reverb from a single impulse response with raytraced direct or 1st/2nd order reflections to enhance the effect?

And finally, I think the Tempest Engine HRTF technology will be a game changer. When a headset is used (for the best results) I think the PS5 will be able to offer lifelike audio and for me this is definitely one of the reasons to get a PS5. That being said, it's still interesting to compare both techniques on environment acoustics, as that will be input for the HRTF.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

They do not use source code; it's the images that are sent to the neural-network and they are trained to recognize aliasing.

I assumed source code based on this:

We should note that NVIDIA will enable DLSS in games for developers for free, if a dev just sends them their code for processing on an NVIDIA DGX supercomputer. NVIDIA will hand back that code, which is reportedly just megabytes in incremental size, and enable the feature in their driver for that game.

Source

 

[Deleted member 775630]

What is 'normal BC'? It's quite annoying when layman warriors try to argue in a tech thread but they don't even know the proper jargon to start with.

Well I explained it in a post before. So Sony BC is just backwards compatibility where the PS5 runs the PS4 game, nothing specially enhanced. XSX runs the game and applies auto-HDR where it actually enhances the game visually.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Yeap but that just makes the reconstruction more accurate... it is still reconstruction tech just like checkboard.

Well, because you said "I thought DSLL is a reconstruction tech just like Checkboard," I assumed that you weren't aware of DSLL's reliance on Artificial Intelligence. I think that DSLL is rather distinguished from checkerboarding and other reconstruction techniques due to this reason.

 

[ethomaz]

I assumed source code based on this:



Source

I believe nVidia needs to run at super resolution in that computer to get the images to AI training for that game.

 

[SonGoku]

You guys are forgetting that DLSS 2.0 makes ray-tracing a game changer (yes I know DLSS is an Nvidia solution). If\when AMD, Sony, or MS come up with their own version Ray-Tracing "WILL BE" the huge visual next-gen look that will define next-gen AAA games.

DLSS is great for PC as a standard feature across games but its uses for consoles are overrated imo, results are hit or miss, depending of the game other reconstruction techniques can provide better results.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I assumed source code based on this:

Source

nVidia has to run the game to generate the results; it's not looking at source code...that would be rather useless. If they want these features for a launch of a game a dev would have to supply a copy to nVidia (and convince them to use their servers specifically for that game).. so there is some back and forth between devs for this, but it's not source code.

 

[PaintTinJr]

That's a strange scenario where for whatever reason not much going on on screen causes GPU usage to shoot up and thus thermals to shoot up.

That weird scenario is actually an example of the GPU workload causing power draw to go up; the PS5 would cut the power to the GPU with no effect on the outcome. That is a unique scenario where the downclocking actually helps, hence why Cerny brought it up.

In normal gameplay scenarios the GPU or CPU will need to downclock when the load is too high, and it will effect the ability to render. But hopefully only slightly, as Cerny seems to insist most of the time they can both run at full.

No the usage goes down and, that is a common thermal latency issue (pre-PS5 paradigm change) where the GPU has been drawing lots of power for 3D, then menu screen is 3D-OFF, and because the GPU isn’t transforming the higher power into work done and there is latency between power draw high and low, the added power gets passed to the GPU and converted more to heat – when the menu comes on – hence the fan kicking in. The ambient temp of the chip is then higher, so returning to 3D-ON doesn’t remove the added temp quickly, and so the fan keeps running high.